Fitting an R&D genius throttle body

Has anyone here ever fitted one to a ktm? I have just bought a secondhand/hardly used unit for my 17 KTM 450sxf but the guy I bought it off has lost the instructions. It came with a matched vortex ecu. It seems simple enough, should just be plug and play, but just wanted to know if anyone has any tips/thinks to look out for. Cheers.
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jaredkeller96
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503
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Huntersville, NC US
1/25/2018 6:47am
If it already has everything installed, injector, tps, map sensor hook it up. Set the tps with the vortex software if you have access let her rip
1/25/2018 4:11pm Edited Date/Time 1/29/2018 8:31pm
I have installed it, it was no problem, plug and play, the fuel line needed to be modified as the genius throttle body fuel intake is at the top, the standard throttle body intake is at the bottom. I removed the standard in-line fuel filter as well...I don't use dirty fuel.

It started up no worries, I let it run for a few minutes then reved it up a few times. there was a small puff of black smoke each rev. I will give it a test ride tomorrow.
1/25/2018 6:01pm Edited Date/Time 3/12/2018 1:28pm
If it already has everything installed, injector, tps, map sensor hook it up. Set the tps with the vortex software if you have access let her...
If it already has everything installed, injector, tps, map sensor hook it up. Set the tps with the vortex software if you have access let her rip
full fmf 4.1 system, and 490 kit coming soon.
3/10/2018 12:52am
Its been a while but I have just had the weather and time to try this thing out. Yesterday between rain (I live in the tropics) I went for the first ride, which was about 4 minutes. It took a while to get it started, more that with the standard ecu and throttle body. But once it did i rode up and back a 500m (1/2 ish mile) twice. It did back fire once on the first of the 4 directions. Today I started it again, this seems to be a problem, I flattened the battery before it started, I have never flattened the battery on the bike before (it nearly started). I hooked it up to a charger then it started straight up and I let it idle for a minute.

I am not getting good vibes from this setup right now, if anyone has any experience with these could you let me know please. I would swap the genius throttle body and the matched vortex ecu for a vortex alone that suits the 17 ktm450sxf at this point.

Thanks.

The Shop

Bruce372
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US
3/10/2018 9:34am
It's not hard to flatten the battery on a 17 with just the stock engine. Especially if it's cold
3/10/2018 3:28pm
Pretty sure the stock batteries aren’t really all that good. You can order a Shorai(?) one and they are lighter and last longer.

Sounds like the bike is running lean, judging from backfiring. Richen the map if you can.
ML512
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Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
3/12/2018 4:41am
Its been a while but I have just had the weather and time to try this thing out. Yesterday between rain (I live in the tropics)...
Its been a while but I have just had the weather and time to try this thing out. Yesterday between rain (I live in the tropics) I went for the first ride, which was about 4 minutes. It took a while to get it started, more that with the standard ecu and throttle body. But once it did i rode up and back a 500m (1/2 ish mile) twice. It did back fire once on the first of the 4 directions. Today I started it again, this seems to be a problem, I flattened the battery before it started, I have never flattened the battery on the bike before (it nearly started). I hooked it up to a charger then it started straight up and I let it idle for a minute.

I am not getting good vibes from this setup right now, if anyone has any experience with these could you let me know please. I would swap the genius throttle body and the matched vortex ecu for a vortex alone that suits the 17 ktm450sxf at this point.

Thanks.
The Genius takes some pretty wild mapping changes to run properly, going to standard ECU or Vortex set for a stock/near-stock bike will cause a big problem.
Mx746
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Marietta, GA US
3/12/2018 8:00am
I ran a genius w vortex on a 14 cr450 in hopes of curing flame outs, while it helped slightly it wasn’t a fix. The bike ran very well and the mapping was convenient with the x10. It was just nature of the beast to flame out more than other brands.
3/12/2018 12:43pm
Its been a while but I have just had the weather and time to try this thing out. Yesterday between rain (I live in the tropics)...
Its been a while but I have just had the weather and time to try this thing out. Yesterday between rain (I live in the tropics) I went for the first ride, which was about 4 minutes. It took a while to get it started, more that with the standard ecu and throttle body. But once it did i rode up and back a 500m (1/2 ish mile) twice. It did back fire once on the first of the 4 directions. Today I started it again, this seems to be a problem, I flattened the battery before it started, I have never flattened the battery on the bike before (it nearly started). I hooked it up to a charger then it started straight up and I let it idle for a minute.

I am not getting good vibes from this setup right now, if anyone has any experience with these could you let me know please. I would swap the genius throttle body and the matched vortex ecu for a vortex alone that suits the 17 ktm450sxf at this point.

Thanks.
ML512 wrote:
The Genius takes some pretty wild mapping changes to run properly, going to standard ECU or Vortex set for a stock/near-stock bike will cause a big...
The Genius takes some pretty wild mapping changes to run properly, going to standard ECU or Vortex set for a stock/near-stock bike will cause a big problem.
It have fitted the vortex ecu that came with the throttle body from r&d, I have only ridden it for about 2 minutes and it seemed to be right. Starting the bike was not good though.
ML512
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16890
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Location
Wildomar, CA US
Fantasy
3/12/2018 1:10pm
Its been a while but I have just had the weather and time to try this thing out. Yesterday between rain (I live in the tropics)...
Its been a while but I have just had the weather and time to try this thing out. Yesterday between rain (I live in the tropics) I went for the first ride, which was about 4 minutes. It took a while to get it started, more that with the standard ecu and throttle body. But once it did i rode up and back a 500m (1/2 ish mile) twice. It did back fire once on the first of the 4 directions. Today I started it again, this seems to be a problem, I flattened the battery before it started, I have never flattened the battery on the bike before (it nearly started). I hooked it up to a charger then it started straight up and I let it idle for a minute.

I am not getting good vibes from this setup right now, if anyone has any experience with these could you let me know please. I would swap the genius throttle body and the matched vortex ecu for a vortex alone that suits the 17 ktm450sxf at this point.

Thanks.
ML512 wrote:
The Genius takes some pretty wild mapping changes to run properly, going to standard ECU or Vortex set for a stock/near-stock bike will cause a big...
The Genius takes some pretty wild mapping changes to run properly, going to standard ECU or Vortex set for a stock/near-stock bike will cause a big problem.
It have fitted the vortex ecu that came with the throttle body from r&d, I have only ridden it for about 2 minutes and it seemed...
It have fitted the vortex ecu that came with the throttle body from r&d, I have only ridden it for about 2 minutes and it seemed to be right. Starting the bike was not good though.
I had a conversation about the R&D body a few weeks ago with the engine builder for Geico Honda (they used these bodies for a few races around seven or eight years ago). He mentioned constantly taking them apart for maintenance and problems with the idle constantly changing...this along with other problems/inconsistent results made them quickly go away from the throttle body.

Just a heads up...
3/12/2018 1:22pm
ML512 wrote:
The Genius takes some pretty wild mapping changes to run properly, going to standard ECU or Vortex set for a stock/near-stock bike will cause a big...
The Genius takes some pretty wild mapping changes to run properly, going to standard ECU or Vortex set for a stock/near-stock bike will cause a big problem.
It have fitted the vortex ecu that came with the throttle body from r&d, I have only ridden it for about 2 minutes and it seemed...
It have fitted the vortex ecu that came with the throttle body from r&d, I have only ridden it for about 2 minutes and it seemed to be right. Starting the bike was not good though.
ML512 wrote:
I had a conversation about the R&D body a few weeks ago with the engine builder for Geico Honda (they used these bodies for a few...
I had a conversation about the R&D body a few weeks ago with the engine builder for Geico Honda (they used these bodies for a few races around seven or eight years ago). He mentioned constantly taking them apart for maintenance and problems with the idle constantly changing...this along with other problems/inconsistent results made them quickly go away from the throttle body.

Just a heads up...
I have a race this weekend so hopefully it goes well. If not I will sell it or try and swap it for a vortex that suits the standard bike/throttle body. I appreciate the heads up, thanks.
3/12/2018 1:26pm
Mx746 wrote:
I ran a genius w vortex on a 14 cr450 in hopes of curing flame outs, while it helped slightly it wasn’t a fix. The bike...
I ran a genius w vortex on a 14 cr450 in hopes of curing flame outs, while it helped slightly it wasn’t a fix. The bike ran very well and the mapping was convenient with the x10. It was just nature of the beast to flame out more than other brands.
Are you still running the genius? How long did/have you run it for?
PJSMAN
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Martinsville, IN US
4/4/2019 6:43pm
Did you get the Genius throttle body running correctly?
Rider 5280
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Denver Metro, CO US
8/6/2024 9:01am

Did you ever get the Genius throttle body running correctly?

I ask because I am considering trying one ... but now I notice R&D is totally out of stock on these ---> Probably was just a product that was too finicky & expensive or the masses so they stopped making?

28hall
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AU
8/6/2024 2:47pm
Rider 5280 wrote:
Did you ever get the Genius throttle body running correctly?I ask because I am considering trying one ... but now I notice R&D is totally out...

Did you ever get the Genius throttle body running correctly?

I ask because I am considering trying one ... but now I notice R&D is totally out of stock on these ---> Probably was just a product that was too finicky & expensive or the masses so they stopped making?

I knew you would be all over one of these things! I don’t have any personal experience but have been very curious over the years wanting to try one. The final nail in the coffin for me though was keefer touched on it randomly in a pod commenting about dubachs yz450f he rode with one and it had a really stiff throttle pull which made it hard to ride which has been the only real world comments about ride ability I’ve come across over the years. That coupled with the comments above of a finicky nature and price tag I don’t think the juice is worth the squeeze for dirt bike applications.

1
Rider 5280
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Location
Denver Metro, CO US
8/6/2024 4:07pm Edited Date/Time 8/17/2024 11:19am

😁 I'm too predictable!

Update:
(1) I visited R&D's website today (first time in ~ 6 months) --- dang near every Genius option is sold out which prompted me to ...
(2) Called R&D today, talked to Dean Dickinson the owner at length. Here's what I learned:
(2a) Dean has a total of ~ 6 units left on hand, that's it
(2b) The machine shop that made Genius bodies/most parts sold their business recently(ish), cost to make them elsewhere would be ~ 2-3x what they cost now ---> Dean is no longer going to make OR sell the Genius products after the units on hand sell
(2c) Dean said he will service them still for as long as he can. In the same sentence he added that ~ "I've been doing this for nearly 50 years, I love it, but who knows how long I'll keep doing it, too."
(3) When I asked about the Genius unit I have lined up to purchase currently and what its configuration is/what mods it might need to have "his latest/best mods" he said he wasn't sure because he had been sending out different variations of Vortex programming, etc., over the years. For example, in some cases he had setup the Vortex ECUs to be able to adjust timing via the trim dials (+/- half a degree), in some cases he leverage the trim dials differently. In the end he said "send it to me and it'll cost ~ $200-250 to get you squared away."

(4) These testimonials are compelling as heck:  https://www.r1dean.com/videos/

Given the recent research above, my conclusion is:
The product is a VERY niche product with a rapidly closing window of support potential AND it's probably a LOT of work to get even remotely working right for my bike, so ... I AM ALL IN - HERE I COME GENIUS THROTTLE BODY!

In all seriousness, I am moving on. I cannot afford the time dump this project would entail. I will limit my gymnastics to: gearing changes, 2 ECUs, 2 exhaust systems, exhaust flanges (there's a 350 version on the horizon potentially), possibly an intake mod (to the 2-stroke airboot & air filter cage), and possibly race gas --- but that is as far as I am going to go with these KTM 350 & 450 SX-F experiments engine/power-wise.

(and truth be told, I went down this SAME path ~ 4 years ago for a YZ250F - ended up bailing then, too - for basically the same reasons ... but I still want one to try this so bad - the tech is solid!)

1
8/9/2024 6:01pm
Rider 5280 wrote:
😁 I'm too predictable!Update:(1) I visited R&D's website today (first time in ~ 6 months) --- dang near every Genius option is sold out...

😁 I'm too predictable!

Update:
(1) I visited R&D's website today (first time in ~ 6 months) --- dang near every Genius option is sold out which prompted me to ...
(2) Called R&D today, talked to Dean Dickinson the owner at length. Here's what I learned:
(2a) Dean has a total of ~ 6 units left on hand, that's it
(2b) The machine shop that made Genius bodies/most parts sold their business recently(ish), cost to make them elsewhere would be ~ 2-3x what they cost now ---> Dean is no longer going to make OR sell the Genius products after the units on hand sell
(2c) Dean said he will service them still for as long as he can. In the same sentence he added that ~ "I've been doing this for nearly 50 years, I love it, but who knows how long I'll keep doing it, too."
(3) When I asked about the Genius unit I have lined up to purchase currently and what its configuration is/what mods it might need to have "his latest/best mods" he said he wasn't sure because he had been sending out different variations of Vortex programming, etc., over the years. For example, in some cases he had setup the Vortex ECUs to be able to adjust timing via the trim dials (+/- half a degree), in some cases he leverage the trim dials differently. In the end he said "send it to me and it'll cost ~ $200-250 to get you squared away."

(4) These testimonials are compelling as heck:  https://www.r1dean.com/videos/

Given the recent research above, my conclusion is:
The product is a VERY niche product with a rapidly closing window of support potential AND it's probably a LOT of work to get even remotely working right for my bike, so ... I AM ALL IN - HERE I COME GENIUS THROTTLE BODY!

In all seriousness, I am moving on. I cannot afford the time dump this project would entail. I will limit my gymnastics to: gearing changes, 2 ECUs, 2 exhaust systems, exhaust flanges (there's a 350 version on the horizon potentially), possibly an intake mod (to the 2-stroke airboot & air filter cage), and possibly race gas --- but that is as far as I am going to go with these KTM 350 & 450 SX-F experiments engine/power-wise.

(and truth be told, I went down this SAME path ~ 4 years ago for a YZ250F - ended up bailing then, too - for basically the same reasons ... but I still want one to try this so bad - the tech is solid!)

I've been using one on my 270 Sxf for the last 6 years.  I never used the stock throttle body so I can't compare, but when the bike was built w it and the Vortex, it dyno'd at almost 53 hp.  I would say that motor was amazing and I am going to be rebuilding the mod head to get it back to how it was. 

Only problem I have found with it, is that I have a bit of a hanging idle, sort of like if the slide isn't closing completely.  Although this does rectify itself after hitting the brakes/clutch to bring the revs all the way down.  Not sure if its just an effect of vacuum , sticky slide, or what.  I have messed around with it, but not been able to fix it.  I did try going with a single cable throttle and then went back to double, no change. It doesn't affect the bike while riding, so I have just learned to live with it. 

ckadlec796
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28
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Location
Hayward, WI US
8/10/2024 6:05am
Rider 5280 wrote:
😁 I'm too predictable!Update:(1) I visited R&D's website today (first time in ~ 6 months) --- dang near every Genius option is sold out...

😁 I'm too predictable!

Update:
(1) I visited R&D's website today (first time in ~ 6 months) --- dang near every Genius option is sold out which prompted me to ...
(2) Called R&D today, talked to Dean Dickinson the owner at length. Here's what I learned:
(2a) Dean has a total of ~ 6 units left on hand, that's it
(2b) The machine shop that made Genius bodies/most parts sold their business recently(ish), cost to make them elsewhere would be ~ 2-3x what they cost now ---> Dean is no longer going to make OR sell the Genius products after the units on hand sell
(2c) Dean said he will service them still for as long as he can. In the same sentence he added that ~ "I've been doing this for nearly 50 years, I love it, but who knows how long I'll keep doing it, too."
(3) When I asked about the Genius unit I have lined up to purchase currently and what its configuration is/what mods it might need to have "his latest/best mods" he said he wasn't sure because he had been sending out different variations of Vortex programming, etc., over the years. For example, in some cases he had setup the Vortex ECUs to be able to adjust timing via the trim dials (+/- half a degree), in some cases he leverage the trim dials differently. In the end he said "send it to me and it'll cost ~ $200-250 to get you squared away."

(4) These testimonials are compelling as heck:  https://www.r1dean.com/videos/

Given the recent research above, my conclusion is:
The product is a VERY niche product with a rapidly closing window of support potential AND it's probably a LOT of work to get even remotely working right for my bike, so ... I AM ALL IN - HERE I COME GENIUS THROTTLE BODY!

In all seriousness, I am moving on. I cannot afford the time dump this project would entail. I will limit my gymnastics to: gearing changes, 2 ECUs, 2 exhaust systems, exhaust flanges (there's a 350 version on the horizon potentially), possibly an intake mod (to the 2-stroke airboot & air filter cage), and possibly race gas --- but that is as far as I am going to go with these KTM 350 & 450 SX-F experiments engine/power-wise.

(and truth be told, I went down this SAME path ~ 4 years ago for a YZ250F - ended up bailing then, too - for basically the same reasons ... but I still want one to try this so bad - the tech is solid!)

I've been using one on my 270 Sxf for the last 6 years.  I never used the stock throttle body so I can't compare, but when...

I've been using one on my 270 Sxf for the last 6 years.  I never used the stock throttle body so I can't compare, but when the bike was built w it and the Vortex, it dyno'd at almost 53 hp.  I would say that motor was amazing and I am going to be rebuilding the mod head to get it back to how it was. 

Only problem I have found with it, is that I have a bit of a hanging idle, sort of like if the slide isn't closing completely.  Although this does rectify itself after hitting the brakes/clutch to bring the revs all the way down.  Not sure if its just an effect of vacuum , sticky slide, or what.  I have messed around with it, but not been able to fix it.  I did try going with a single cable throttle and then went back to double, no change. It doesn't affect the bike while riding, so I have just learned to live with it. 

We had these units on our 2017 yz250f sx bikes. Had great results. You can add more spring tension the the unit to eliminate this… they actually flow so much the volume of air holds the slide open ever so slightly.


IMG 1672 0.jpeg?VersionId=D 2sF

2
8/10/2024 2:14pm
Rider 5280 wrote:
😁 I'm too predictable!Update:(1) I visited R&D's website today (first time in ~ 6 months) --- dang near every Genius option is sold out...

😁 I'm too predictable!

Update:
(1) I visited R&D's website today (first time in ~ 6 months) --- dang near every Genius option is sold out which prompted me to ...
(2) Called R&D today, talked to Dean Dickinson the owner at length. Here's what I learned:
(2a) Dean has a total of ~ 6 units left on hand, that's it
(2b) The machine shop that made Genius bodies/most parts sold their business recently(ish), cost to make them elsewhere would be ~ 2-3x what they cost now ---> Dean is no longer going to make OR sell the Genius products after the units on hand sell
(2c) Dean said he will service them still for as long as he can. In the same sentence he added that ~ "I've been doing this for nearly 50 years, I love it, but who knows how long I'll keep doing it, too."
(3) When I asked about the Genius unit I have lined up to purchase currently and what its configuration is/what mods it might need to have "his latest/best mods" he said he wasn't sure because he had been sending out different variations of Vortex programming, etc., over the years. For example, in some cases he had setup the Vortex ECUs to be able to adjust timing via the trim dials (+/- half a degree), in some cases he leverage the trim dials differently. In the end he said "send it to me and it'll cost ~ $200-250 to get you squared away."

(4) These testimonials are compelling as heck:  https://www.r1dean.com/videos/

Given the recent research above, my conclusion is:
The product is a VERY niche product with a rapidly closing window of support potential AND it's probably a LOT of work to get even remotely working right for my bike, so ... I AM ALL IN - HERE I COME GENIUS THROTTLE BODY!

In all seriousness, I am moving on. I cannot afford the time dump this project would entail. I will limit my gymnastics to: gearing changes, 2 ECUs, 2 exhaust systems, exhaust flanges (there's a 350 version on the horizon potentially), possibly an intake mod (to the 2-stroke airboot & air filter cage), and possibly race gas --- but that is as far as I am going to go with these KTM 350 & 450 SX-F experiments engine/power-wise.

(and truth be told, I went down this SAME path ~ 4 years ago for a YZ250F - ended up bailing then, too - for basically the same reasons ... but I still want one to try this so bad - the tech is solid!)

I've been using one on my 270 Sxf for the last 6 years.  I never used the stock throttle body so I can't compare, but when...

I've been using one on my 270 Sxf for the last 6 years.  I never used the stock throttle body so I can't compare, but when the bike was built w it and the Vortex, it dyno'd at almost 53 hp.  I would say that motor was amazing and I am going to be rebuilding the mod head to get it back to how it was. 

Only problem I have found with it, is that I have a bit of a hanging idle, sort of like if the slide isn't closing completely.  Although this does rectify itself after hitting the brakes/clutch to bring the revs all the way down.  Not sure if its just an effect of vacuum , sticky slide, or what.  I have messed around with it, but not been able to fix it.  I did try going with a single cable throttle and then went back to double, no change. It doesn't affect the bike while riding, so I have just learned to live with it. 

ckadlec796 wrote:
We had these units on our 2017 yz250f sx bikes. Had great results. You can add more spring tension the the unit to eliminate this… they...

We had these units on our 2017 yz250f sx bikes. Had great results. You can add more spring tension the the unit to eliminate this… they actually flow so much the volume of air holds the slide open ever so slightly.


IMG 1672 0.jpeg?VersionId=D 2sF

Awesome, I will do that, thanks!

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