Does Gallagher Penalize Webb?

2stmark
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2stmark 3/17/2019 7:43am
3/17/2019 7:43am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 7:46am
Webb almost ko'd himself & passed Tomac , did not cut the track

It was a racing incident

If roles were reversed i'd feel the same
, so why didnt Tomac pass Webb back ?
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 7:46am
3/17/2019 7:46am
2stmark wrote:
Webb almost ko'd himself & passed Tomac , did not cut the track It was a racing incident If roles were reversed i'd feel the same...
Webb almost ko'd himself & passed Tomac , did not cut the track

It was a racing incident

If roles were reversed i'd feel the same
, so why didnt Tomac pass Webb back ?
A racing incident where Webb cut the track and gained an advantage. I agree, if roles were reversed, Tomac would deserve a penalty as well.
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yak651
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yak651 3/17/2019 7:46am
3/17/2019 7:46am
DF313 wrote:
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass...
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass in that turn. But, you never know what might have happened, but what did happen looks like he did enter the track in front of Tomac, on accident.



yak651 wrote:
You forgot to post the next couple of frames where he was able to pivot and turn without hitting Eli and then pass him
Squirrelings wrote:
Get real dude. Tomac wouldn’t have had to check up if Webb hadn’t cut the corner. Take your KTM/Webb blinders off.
Just wish Eli would've threw a grip or something at him to really show him that was not acceptable!!
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HD1200
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HD1200 3/17/2019 7:54am
3/17/2019 7:54am
Facts
1) Webb definitely cut the track, accident or not!
2) Absolutely gained an advantage.
3) No way Webb made the pass on that corner if he hadn't cut the track.
4) Like it or not it's a 2 position penalty.
5) This penalty would only be bad for Webb.
6) This penalty would be good for MM25, KR94 and ET3 so it doesn't just benefit ET3 as some suggest. Kawi and HRC should protest and KTM would be ok with either outcome.
7) It's a Championship and that illegal pass could possibly end up being points that could cost MM25, ET3 or KR94 their 1st Title. It does matter!
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Racer111
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Racer111 3/17/2019 8:00am
3/17/2019 8:00am
Regardless of what did or didint happen, Webb cut the track. Doesn’t matter if it’s an inch or 5 feet. Penalty should be imposed.

The rest of the race is irrelevant here. It’s that moment where Coop makes a pass by cutting the track. The next 10 min do not matter or apply. Only the time from where he cut the track and when he went by. Once he passed Tomac, a penalty should have been issued.

You can’t bend rules. Webb cut the track. End of story.
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 8:05am
3/17/2019 8:05am
yak651 wrote:
Just wish Eli would've threw a grip or something at him to really show him that was not acceptable!!
So you’re unintelligent and a troll? This explains your posts.
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 8:06am
3/17/2019 8:06am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 11:29am
HD1200 wrote:
Facts 1) Webb definitely cut the track, accident or not! 2) Absolutely gained an advantage. 3) No way Webb made the pass on that corner if...
Facts
1) Webb definitely cut the track, accident or not!
2) Absolutely gained an advantage.
3) No way Webb made the pass on that corner if he hadn't cut the track.
4) Like it or not it's a 2 position penalty.
5) This penalty would only be bad for Webb.
6) This penalty would be good for MM25, KR94 and ET3 so it doesn't just benefit ET3 as some suggest. Kawi and HRC should protest and KTM would be ok with either outcome.
7) It's a Championship and that illegal pass could possibly end up being points that could cost MM25, ET3 or KR94 their 1st Title. It does matter!
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biscuit11
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biscuit11 3/17/2019 8:07am
3/17/2019 8:07am
Racer111 wrote:
Regardless of what did or didint happen, Webb cut the track. Doesn’t matter if it’s an inch or 5 feet. Penalty should be imposed. The rest...
Regardless of what did or didint happen, Webb cut the track. Doesn’t matter if it’s an inch or 5 feet. Penalty should be imposed.

The rest of the race is irrelevant here. It’s that moment where Coop makes a pass by cutting the track. The next 10 min do not matter or apply. Only the time from where he cut the track and when he went by. Once he passed Tomac, a penalty should have been issued.

You can’t bend rules. Webb cut the track. End of story.
I agree completely. How long do other teams have to file a protest?
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 8:08am
3/17/2019 8:08am
HD1200 wrote:
Facts 1) Webb definitely cut the track, accident or not! 2) Absolutely gained an advantage. 3) No way Webb made the pass on that corner if...
Facts
1) Webb definitely cut the track, accident or not!
2) Absolutely gained an advantage.
3) No way Webb made the pass on that corner if he hadn't cut the track.
4) Like it or not it's a 2 position penalty.
5) This penalty would only be bad for Webb.
6) This penalty would be good for MM25, KR94 and ET3 so it doesn't just benefit ET3 as some suggest. Kawi and HRC should protest and KTM would be ok with either outcome.
7) It's a Championship and that illegal pass could possibly end up being points that could cost MM25, ET3 or KR94 their 1st Title. It does matter!
It’s a no brainer, but if you have no brain....
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cable
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cable 3/17/2019 8:10am
3/17/2019 8:10am
if its for the lcq transfer he would have been protested.
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USA 3/17/2019 8:11am
3/17/2019 8:11am
My immediate thoughts were that Webb cut the track and gained an advantage because of it. I think if he wouldn’t have taken the position in that corner it would be kosher, but the rules are clear.

And I’m not sure what the rest of the race had to do with it?? Confusing logic some people have. Akin to believing that if Savatgy had deliberately pushed Webb off the track in the first corner, and Webb crashed and went a lap down, that Savatgy wouldn’t deserve any repercussions because “Webb wasn’t able to catch him anyways”. Maybe not my best example, but I think most will get the point.
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davis224
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davis224 3/17/2019 8:12am
3/17/2019 8:12am

Looby321
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Looby321 3/17/2019 8:15am
3/17/2019 8:15am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 8:18am
Somehow I knew that there was going to be a topic on this. Vital never disappoints. Also makes me wonder how many of you have watched a national race...
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Silas444
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Silas444 3/17/2019 8:16am
3/17/2019 8:16am
I just don't get where he "cut" the track. Was there a jump he avoided? No. Was there a corner he didn't negotiate? No. Webb's not in a courtroom testifying under oath, he's riding around on a perilous obstacle course designed to challenge the outer limits of a rider's ability to STAY in control of the bike he's riding. He fell short of staying in complete control, YES, but did he cut the track? NO. He completed every straight section and he rounded every corner. To me, this talk is just so silly. It would be much easier for those saying Webb cheated to just say, "I love Tomac and I hate Webb" - because you're saying it anyway, just using a lot more words.
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URNSO2
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URNSO2 3/17/2019 8:16am
3/17/2019 8:16am
T-Fish wrote:
I say no penalty. Webb was going to be coming out of that corner ahead of Eli, mistake or not. I’d almost argue that hitting the...
I say no penalty. Webb was going to be coming out of that corner ahead of Eli, mistake or not. I’d almost argue that hitting the blocks saved Tomac from getting cleaned out.
The reason it could be a penalty is because Webb skipped half of the corner and landed in a position that was perfect for a block pass. We don’t know if Webb could’ve made the pass in this corner if he didn’t cut part of track. Based on the rules Webb shouldn’t have used his entry on to the track as an advantage which he clearly did.
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biscuit11
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biscuit11 3/17/2019 8:17am
3/17/2019 8:17am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 8:29am
DF313 wrote:
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass...
I know it was accidental, but I feel like if he would have landed on track he might not have been able to make the pass in that turn. But, you never know what might have happened, but what did happen looks like he did enter the track in front of Tomac, on accident.



Thanks for posting these pictures. For those who feel no advantage was gained, Im extremely currious what you think about that last picture? It looks like Webb passes the centerline of the turn before ever even entering the turn. Maybe others see it differently?
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DF313
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DF313 3/17/2019 8:18am
3/17/2019 8:18am
What's next, penalizing a rider for illegal race fuel, then giving him back the points if he doesn't like it?
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Goofy Foot
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Goofy Foot 3/17/2019 8:20am
3/17/2019 8:20am
What happened to the original thread topic on this incident? It seemed fairly civil last time I saw it. The rule book is pretty clear, will be interesting to see what happens
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Squirrelings 3/17/2019 8:25am
3/17/2019 8:25am
Silas444 wrote:
I just don't get where he "cut" the track. Was there a jump he avoided? No. Was there a corner he didn't negotiate? No. Webb's not...
I just don't get where he "cut" the track. Was there a jump he avoided? No. Was there a corner he didn't negotiate? No. Webb's not in a courtroom testifying under oath, he's riding around on a perilous obstacle course designed to challenge the outer limits of a rider's ability to STAY in control of the bike he's riding. He fell short of staying in complete control, YES, but did he cut the track? NO. He completed every straight section and he rounded every corner. To me, this talk is just so silly. It would be much easier for those saying Webb cheated to just say, "I love Tomac and I hate Webb" - because you're saying it anyway, just using a lot more words.
It’s the part where he goes though the tough blocks to be in a position to black pass another rider. This 100% would not have happened if Webb did not cut the beginning of the corner entirely. How anyone can’t fathom this is baffling.
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Mxracer6y
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Mxracer6y 3/17/2019 8:27am
3/17/2019 8:27am
Silas444 wrote:
I just don't get where he "cut" the track. Was there a jump he avoided? No. Was there a corner he didn't negotiate? No. Webb's not...
I just don't get where he "cut" the track. Was there a jump he avoided? No. Was there a corner he didn't negotiate? No. Webb's not in a courtroom testifying under oath, he's riding around on a perilous obstacle course designed to challenge the outer limits of a rider's ability to STAY in control of the bike he's riding. He fell short of staying in complete control, YES, but did he cut the track? NO. He completed every straight section and he rounded every corner. To me, this talk is just so silly. It would be much easier for those saying Webb cheated to just say, "I love Tomac and I hate Webb" - because you're saying it anyway, just using a lot more words.
Ahh ok so we can now cut corners as long as we make a turn at some point ?
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URNSO2
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URNSO2 3/17/2019 8:29am
3/17/2019 8:29am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 8:47am
“I just don't get where he "cut" the track.”

Webb cut half of the corner. Look at the replay, he never touches the track on 90 degrees of a 180 degree corner. He landed in the second half of corner before he even started to turn.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not claiming Webb cheated. I just think he should have waited to make the pass to avoid the penalty. You could almost hear it in Webb’s voice when they showed him the replay. Cheating is generally when someone plans something for an unfair advantage. This didn’t appear to planned and his choice to hit the throttle instead of the brake in a questionable situation was his racing instinct. That doesn’t mean they should ignore the rules.
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URNSO2
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URNSO2 3/17/2019 8:36am
3/17/2019 8:36am
Either way this comes out it should make the rest of the season more interesting. Either the points chase ends up being closer or we have racing with riders cutting inside the tough blocks to make corner passes.
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Crush
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Crush 3/17/2019 8:39am
3/17/2019 8:39am
Silas444 wrote:
I just don't get where he "cut" the track. Was there a jump he avoided? No. Was there a corner he didn't negotiate? No. Webb's not...
I just don't get where he "cut" the track. Was there a jump he avoided? No. Was there a corner he didn't negotiate? No. Webb's not in a courtroom testifying under oath, he's riding around on a perilous obstacle course designed to challenge the outer limits of a rider's ability to STAY in control of the bike he's riding. He fell short of staying in complete control, YES, but did he cut the track? NO. He completed every straight section and he rounded every corner. To me, this talk is just so silly. It would be much easier for those saying Webb cheated to just say, "I love Tomac and I hate Webb" - because you're saying it anyway, just using a lot more words.
Would he have made that exact pass without going off track?

Probability not. His literal position in that corner was a result of his line, over/through the tuff blocks, off track.

Would he pass him later. Well probably but that’s not the point, nor is intent.
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mxjeff575
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mxjeff575 3/17/2019 8:42am
3/17/2019 8:42am
If there's no penalty for "clipping tuff blocks" and gaining a track position advantage that you wouldn't have gained otherwise, I would have changed it up a tiny bit and used the blue line to pass both Baggett and Tomac Smile

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dickjackson170 3/17/2019 8:48am
3/17/2019 8:48am
I'm the farthest thing from a Webb fan, but is this seriously a question? OP rolls into a 5 paragraph arguement that a guy that clipped a hay bail somehow cheated and should be docked a position. Have some of you ever raced or even ridden? Go back to playing Call of Duty bro.
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URNSO2
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URNSO2 3/17/2019 8:55am
3/17/2019 8:55am
mxjeff575 wrote:
If there's no penalty for "clipping tuff blocks" and gaining a track position advantage that you wouldn't have gained otherwise, I would have changed it up...
If there's no penalty for "clipping tuff blocks" and gaining a track position advantage that you wouldn't have gained otherwise, I would have changed it up a tiny bit and used the blue line to pass both Baggett and Tomac Smile

That’s kind of what I am wondering. What if Webb never touched the tough block and landed inside the track? Would that be legal? If so, why not 180 transfer jump and avoid the entire corner instead of only the first half? Who knows where this could lead but it seems it could add another element of danger with racers jumping across track lines.
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Kawi15
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Kawi15 3/17/2019 8:55am
3/17/2019 8:55am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 8:57am
We have too many lawyers about. I guess I am just old and gray, but I can hardly believe that anybody thinks that Webb cut the track.
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Forty
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Forty 3/17/2019 9:02am
3/17/2019 9:02am Edited Date/Time 3/17/2019 9:10am
Are the tuff blocks also track boundaries or are there additional markers? If the tuff blocks are also track boundaries is it the in side of the block or outside?

If it’s the outside then technically Webb cut about 2 feet off the track while out of control.

Don’t read this wrong. IMO there is nothing to see here and it’s just drama created by people that like drama.

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Calihusky
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Calihusky 3/17/2019 9:05am
3/17/2019 9:05am
This shouldn’t be a penalty because how many times during a race does another rider go off the track and then cut back in? It’s subjective every time as to whether they “gained an advantage” or not. What if they go around a jump to get back on safely? Is that gaining an advantage because they didn’t have to jump it? It needs to be an obvious advantage like you crash and just get up and start in the next lane. I’m pretty sure riders won’t decide to land on tough blocks to gain “advantages” because of this in the future. Webb is very lucky he didn’t crash out in that move. The rule book states the ruling is at the discretion of the race director. The fact that Webb dropped Tomac by 15 seconds probably weighs into that as well.
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