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Pourcel raced very little in SX, and practiced not much more. (but was ready to win SX Lites final right away...)
Musquin, except his last winter in europe (because of his KTM contract), always raced and trained in SX a lot. Since his 65cc years. SX training and races had always been a big part of his seasons (IMO, since mid-90's, like no others very top european prospect).
Ferrandis, I guess if he had he would have done like Musquin. But due to his contractual obligations with his MX2 teams (all the more, quickly in this years gp teams became perfectly refractory towards SX), and his regular injuries, more the years passed less he had place for SX races. Yet he never stopped to do some SX practice/play (among others in his backyard, but also thanks to the few serious french SX tracks who was in his neighborhood).
(by the way, Febvre and Tixier achieved a completly different path in SX, that of Tixier is not too far to be as Ferrandis while for Febvre indeed there is none)
They do not race in SX anymore, and even don't practice seriously in SX.
This can be simplified
US riders train on groomed SX timing tracks more.
GP riders train on deep gnarly sand tracks more
Deep gnarly sand tracks are much more demanding in everyway than the cali SX tracks
So the net result is the guys that train in the most demanding condtions both skill & strength wise become the better riders
Any top national GP guy could work out how to time an SX track in US, given the support, set up & condtions to learn.
How many AMA guys could lap within 10 secs of Lommel of Herlings, Anstie, Paulin, Cairoli, Leok, Simpson, Stribos, Fevre, Gejser etc.
Chasing only money makes you shit at things
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The fact that soooooo many people over-look the obvious or take sides in these situations. I’ve done it; but, these days I try just a little harder to have a broader view. Some of you come in here completely “FULL OF FORGET”...
I see Euro’s forgetting that it wasn’t that long ago that Jason schooled the entire field of Euro-Bad Asses.
I see Americans forgetting that there’s ALWAYS been a European around to remind us what Real Motocross is and that it’s “their” sport.
There’s ABSOLUTELY NO DENYING that our Ubber-Focused SX mentality in the US is hurting us “outdoors”. We’ve got 17SX races plus the MEC. Our riders get to do plenty of off-season SXs & I just don’t seem to see any big outdoor invitational races.
Even in Canada, they’re (promoters) looking to cut-back on outdoor events and increase the indoor events. We need to get the message across: WE, the regular folks, RACE “Outdoors”. We LIKE to watch MOTOCROSS.
It's a simple fact that the top GP guys are better right now in pure, outdoor motocross. Indisputable.
But the idea that RV's GP experience is typical is just wrong (I know you weren't specifically referring to him here, but I often see his name bandied about as representative of American's going to Europe). RV wanted (badly) to retire, and Monster basically made him either race SX or go to Europe to fulfill his contract, since he had already received huge bonuses from them. He dropped Aldon Baker (for the most part, doing stuff remotely), gained about 20 lbs, and wouldn't listen to guys like DV12 on bike setup (they basically said "thanks but no thanks when DV tried to give them some good advice). The cumulative effect of coming in to the season out of shape, with a crappy bike setup (way too stiff, more of a SX-style vs. the more free-moving outdoor or GP-style chassis and suspension configuration) resulted in 3rd in points (and a win in Argentina) before he did his Larry Loopout deal and retired. Going up against gnarly, super-fit guys like AC222 and JH84 in mediocre shape would've been hopeless even w/o the loop-out and broken tailbone.
Our top guys (Tomac, Anderson, etc.) would adapt within a year or two and be in the mix at the top over there. Given that this won't happen, I agree with the proposed team of Covington, Osbourne, and Tomac/Barcia for Assen. Two of the three have raced GP's, and both Tomac and Barcia are good sand riders...
RV did his prep with Tyler Rattery, years of GP experience.
Bottom line is deep sand is more demanding to learn then SX. SX however is more dangerous. A small mistake at Lommel usually leaves you with a bruised ego. SX its plain to see.
SX just makes less & less sense to a well paid GP riders nowadays.
More risk for less difficulty.
Shame he stays domestic..
I saw Everts in the SX in Barcelona and showed a good technique for SX, better than the great majority of riders, Stanton incluyed.
I believe that the SX is not the direct problem of MX yankee, it is that there are no good prizes in MX, that there is no money for the riders and where there is no money there is not a good level, with respect to where there is money, I do not know if in MXGP there is more money, what if there is a different system where the prize is taken by the teams, but apparently it works in comparison with the AMA Outdoors, currently, because I believe that this, our sensations are in function of the last races or some specific races, and I do not know, I do not see what it is to know who is better, what is clear is that the Yankees in one way or another have not won the MXDN for many years.
I believe that if it had not rained in Red Bud and if the owner had not filled it with sand the yankees would have been up, From here I thank the owner of Red Bud for facilitating the race to euros, thanks mate, good job, keep going.
I also said before the MXDN that the Laroccos Leap was not going to be done in MXDN, the issue was passed to dubegon, because the owner of Red Bud said that the Laroccos Leap would be there, but finally put in a little jump before it de facto prevented that that jump was made by the great majority of riders, if it was Laroccos Leap, but it really could not be done, so I was not so wrong.
And from here I take this opportunity to wish Everts to recover the best and soonest possible.
And Stefan Everts won the 1993 250cc USGP at Budds Creek.
DC
Racer X
Because there sure were a few riders doing Larocco's Leap.
As I've written before, I reckon for a 19 year old with Sweet F A experience in SX, going straight into the Premier 250 SX class, Stefan did pretty bloody well in '92. Qualifying for all 6 SXs he did.
The owners of the MXDN track put a bit of sand down - and it was in no way a 'Sand' Track . A few regulars / locals to the track wrote here that is what they do each year ( and I think Mr Ritchie said it was normal track prep they do for that potentially wet time of year). I think the organisers did a brilliant job of track preperation. Without the addition of that sand, it would have been a Mud Fest. And, if anyone thinks the GP regulars can't ride Mud, well they are fools.
The Race results are what they are . The US Team could turn up next year at Assen, and shock the World, like they did at the Lommel Trophe' Des Nations, so many years ago. Nothing in Racing, is ever a 'given'.
I hope Stefan gets through his illness. Malaria is a vicious, nasty thing, that took the life of one of my friends, a few years ago.
Everts won in Buds Creek, thanks is good to know.
Bearuno: perhaps you didn't read what I write? ¨ but finally put in a little jump before it de facto prevented that that jump was made by the great majority of riders¨
This is no the same or similar a what you says? ¨Because there sure were a few riders doing Larocco's Leap.¨
And I stay with you with that ¨ I think the organisers did a brilliant job of track preperation¨
Oh yes man, very good job, for the euros, really we appreciate
Mr Ritchie is the name of the owner? Ok, Ritchie you are the man, yeah, well done budy, drink something to our health, you deserve it, great guy this Mr Ritchie, hopefully we will find you again or one like you.
I started a different thread so we wouldn't have to read your nonsense in that other thread. Could you please go back over there to troll?
DC
R
Just as, in the US, you've always had a few riders making Herlings and Cairoli money, or, indeed, more . And then some making sizeable salaries. And then, the rapid plummet down the scale.
It's the way it is. In All sports. The top of the 'mountain', has precipitous sides to it.
Of course, we enthusiasts of our Sport ( and, of Motorcycling in all of it's off shoots - well, for enthusiasts like me that look to so many branches of 2 wheeled sport), will always be stunned by what other sports 'stars' make......
Heck, a few weeks ago I read of a soccer player being paid near to 2 million (I think Euros, or Brit pounds) a week !!!!!!! And, I recognize that's still a piddling amount compared to many other Sports peoples earning. Compared to the risks, and skills I think it takes in SX / MX etc, I go "that's effing crazy". But then, I stop that crap , and recognize those sorts of seemingly outlandish salaries raked in by some, comes down to what their employers see them as being 'worth', Because those employers are sure as hell making a shedload off of those sports people, so they pay them to get that 'profit' / 'exposure' from their talents.
I remember Motocourse, decades ago, showing a comparison of what Eddie Lawson made in a year at Yamaha in his Yam Championships years. They used compared earnings against USPGA, and European PGA players. I think Lawson made the equivalent to the 90 'somethingth' Euro PGA player, and the equivalent of what the hundred and ninetieth / early two 'hundredandsomethingth' player got.
Our sports people, comparatively, get chicken feed compared to so many others. And, will ever do so.
Geeze DC - I saw a few riders doing Larocco's Leap, seemingly, no matter how wet it got. Brave Men, indeed. And, you could hear the crowds appreciation of such daring, even all the way back here in OZ, through my 'puters speakers
Ruy's cool - I really enjoy his pictures he puts up, and the vast, vast majority of his postings. Perhaps he's been hitting the turps at times - coming out with some keinz like posts.
But it would be nice to get back on top some day.
DC
Racer X
Gejser, Fevre, Paulin, Deselle would be well paid also.. Despite the lack of prize money, there is still a lot of money being brought into the GP paddock.
Pit Row
I am not criticizing MXGP riders or what they are paid, just countering Ruy's assertion that "there is no good prizes in yankee MX, no money for the riders..." which is simply not true.
DC
Racer X
Now go brush your teeth it's past your bedtime.
The big money comes in via media, sponsorship's & factory support.
IMO MXGP does a far better job of media coverage, both online & the TV packages. That should help the teams gain real levels of revenue required to be competitive at the highest level.
So what exactly is your point? So they make 100k on a bonus and don’t want more? Do you think Herlings gave his AMA win bounus back? I’m sure he was like no I don’t want that money ??
I do watch and enjoy all of the races, from SX to Pro Motocross to MXGP, and I think we are all lucky as fans no matter which one you prefer. We live in a good time to watch the races. Enjoy it.
DC
Racer X
You need slightly different skills for both and even US motocross is slightly different from racing the world championship in terms of skill set. It also isn’t the priority for those riders competing as supercross is their main focus, as Roger said in MX World. Whereas all the MXGP riders are all-in for the world motocross championship racing in many different countries and terrains across different continents over seven months, that’s why it’s the premier outdoor series and the measuring stick for who the best outdoor rider is.
When Herlings says he’s the fastest man on the planet he means mx, if any US rider, like Tomac, wants to prove him wrong then beat him to an MXGP world title, it’s the only place to prove it, not winning as team USA at the MXDN, just like anyone who thinks they can be the best supercross rider needs to win the 450 SX championship in the US to prove it.
It’s two different things and they are the two biggest series In the world for dirt bike racing. Supercross has the glamour but MXGP has the grit that only two days of outdoor motocross brings 20 times a year. Both are brilliant.
Bizarrely. supercross just hasn’t really caught on outside the USA in terms of racing except maybe France and Australia, it’s a uniquely American sport that is seen more as some brilliant winter entertainment outside the US until real motocross starts again in the spring.
When Everts raced in 92, he had just come off a short conscription to the Belgian army, amazingly after being 125 world champ in 91! He said he wasn’t well prepared for supercross at all but I think he still got a top ten in one of the rounds and he was only moving up to the 250 class then too. He certainly had decent speed in the heat races and early laps.
He looked all over the place all weekend, i am guessing he went with a different set up in the last one, because he actually looked like he knew what to do.
Gemany won with a guy who wasnt even in GP's , but hauled ass in the sand, and Netherlands lost Coldenhoff to a broken handlebar , and had De Reuver and Herlings down in turn 1 in race 3... but that is the Nations. I think Barcia got flattened by DeDyker as well. It was a crazy weekend as always. I had germany for the win, after seeing Schiffer at Lierop GP where he was rediculously fast. and i even got their team shirt on the saturday for a laugh with the Germans we were with.
I think of all the US riders, Barcia might have been a good addition to the MXGP field, when he was out in the cold. I guess we will never now.
Also if he didnt come back now, he might not have a spot in the US, so do you stay a year and have nothing ,possibly both sides of the pond, or take a 2 year deal in the US now.
Personally i am interested to see how he goes, i think he will find SX tough to start with ( i assume he will do East ) but be a proper threat outdoors.
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