(Edit: apologies to the people I've offended by calling Redbud a sand track)Anyone know why Redbud became a sand(IER) track?

KDXGarage
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KDXGarage 10/8/2018 3:16pm
10/8/2018 3:16pm
My reaction to the first pic: "Is that the fucking track?" Thank you for the pics.

For anyone on the planet that has watched the Red Bud summer race countless times, have you EVER seen it look like that?

For anyone that watches both MXGP and the USA AMA MX series, you should have quickly realized how that terrain was an advantage for MXGP guys vs. AMA guys.
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twizzler
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twizzler 10/8/2018 3:19pm
10/8/2018 3:19pm
motomike137 wrote:
Fantastic job by the folks at Red Bud this weekend! The sand being added to the surface started years ago. Bringing in more for this race...
Fantastic job by the folks at Red Bud this weekend! The sand being added to the surface started years ago. Bringing in more for this race was the right call.
Yep, used to be a hard pack surface with rocks strewn in in places. I grew up riding and racing there from early 80's to mid 90's. It's changed so much. But I give them credit the sand added for the weekend was awesome for the weather conditions. Gotta hand it to the Euro's they kicked ass!
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motomike137
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motomike137 10/8/2018 3:25pm
10/8/2018 3:25pm
OldYZRider1 wrote:
Pretty wise of the Ritchie's to increase the amount of sand given the questionable weather for October in southern MI. It still provided what appeared to...
Pretty wise of the Ritchie's to increase the amount of sand given the questionable weather for October in southern MI. It still provided what appeared to be a decent racing surface so the event wasn't a complete mudfest. Even if the sand hadn't been present the Euros probably would have still waxed our butts; they're just better at racing on many different types of surfaces and in varied conditions right now it appears.

The Dutch results were nothing short of incredible given they basically achieved what they did with a two man effort.
KDXGarage wrote:
Do you (and anyone else) seriously think that Team USA would not have done better if the track looked like it did at the summer National?
Actually yes I do. Not making excuses but if it were the same conditions as the July race I think that our guys would have raced forward. I'm not saying they'd have won but they would have done much better. I think if any of our guys could have gotten a decent start let alone a hole shot we would have faired better.
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Jimmy638 10/8/2018 3:33pm
10/8/2018 3:33pm
OldYZRider1 wrote:
Pretty wise of the Ritchie's to increase the amount of sand given the questionable weather for October in southern MI. It still provided what appeared to...
Pretty wise of the Ritchie's to increase the amount of sand given the questionable weather for October in southern MI. It still provided what appeared to be a decent racing surface so the event wasn't a complete mudfest. Even if the sand hadn't been present the Euros probably would have still waxed our butts; they're just better at racing on many different types of surfaces and in varied conditions right now it appears.

The Dutch results were nothing short of incredible given they basically achieved what they did with a two man effort.
KDXGarage wrote:
Do you (and anyone else) seriously think that Team USA would not have done better if the track looked like it did at the summer National?
motomike137 wrote:
Actually yes I do. Not making excuses but if it were the same conditions as the July race I think that our guys would have raced...
Actually yes I do. Not making excuses but if it were the same conditions as the July race I think that our guys would have raced forward. I'm not saying they'd have won but they would have done much better. I think if any of our guys could have gotten a decent start let alone a hole shot we would have faired better.
Lmao, "a good start", no shit? Ya think?

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Rs444
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Rs444 10/8/2018 3:45pm
10/8/2018 3:45pm
KDXGarage wrote:
My reaction to the first pic: "Is that the fucking track?" Thank you for the pics. For anyone on the planet that has watched the Red...
My reaction to the first pic: "Is that the fucking track?" Thank you for the pics.

For anyone on the planet that has watched the Red Bud summer race countless times, have you EVER seen it look like that?

For anyone that watches both MXGP and the USA AMA MX series, you should have quickly realized how that terrain was an advantage for MXGP guys vs. AMA guys.
Doesnt matter. Even the european guys in the AMA who grew up in sand and mud was far of the phase and if the american riders only can win on dry hardpacked tracks then its obvious that they are surpassed when mx is all about being well rounded and being able to go fast regardless of condition. And even without this being a factor the fact still remains that even tho the track conditions probably suited american riders the best the 3 americans that rode all have a reputation of being good mud riders and barcia knows how to ride sand as he showed in lommel where he won the Open overall and with tomac riding a lot of deep sand at home and regardless of how soft it was the ama riders was still the Only ones who have ridden the track before and the americans had an even bigger advantage being at home.
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OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 10/8/2018 3:55pm
10/8/2018 3:55pm
KDXGarage wrote:
Do you (and anyone else) seriously think that Team USA would not have done better if the track looked like it did at the summer National?
I'm saying that if it were a very muddy track like might have occured if Red Bud hadn't added substantial sand to the track, then I feel the Euros would have still had the upper hand. Their worldwide racing program allows these guys to race in so many different types of soils and weather conditions. The experience they gain by doing so payed off last weekend at Red Bud.

Had conditions been dry then our guys would have fared far better.
rodb
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rodb 10/8/2018 4:27pm
10/8/2018 4:27pm
I raced there this August and the sand was in place then. We did the old start gate,and the new straight aways before the ski jump.
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Nuffsaid
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Nuffsaid 10/8/2018 5:07pm
10/8/2018 5:07pm
Rumor going around is that the sand was imported from Holland just for the GP guys!
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KDXGarage
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KDXGarage 10/8/2018 5:12pm
10/8/2018 5:12pm
OldYZRider1 wrote:
Pretty wise of the Ritchie's to increase the amount of sand given the questionable weather for October in southern MI. It still provided what appeared to...
Pretty wise of the Ritchie's to increase the amount of sand given the questionable weather for October in southern MI. It still provided what appeared to be a decent racing surface so the event wasn't a complete mudfest. Even if the sand hadn't been present the Euros probably would have still waxed our butts; they're just better at racing on many different types of surfaces and in varied conditions right now it appears.

The Dutch results were nothing short of incredible given they basically achieved what they did with a two man effort.
KDXGarage wrote:
Do you (and anyone else) seriously think that Team USA would not have done better if the track looked like it did at the summer National?
motomike137 wrote:
Actually yes I do. Not making excuses but if it were the same conditions as the July race I think that our guys would have raced...
Actually yes I do. Not making excuses but if it were the same conditions as the July race I think that our guys would have raced forward. I'm not saying they'd have won but they would have done much better. I think if any of our guys could have gotten a decent start let alone a hole shot we would have faired better.
I am saying that team USA would have done better on July soil than yesterday's "soil". Like you, I am not saying it would have put them on the winner's stand.
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pbody 10/8/2018 5:22pm
10/8/2018 5:22pm
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he struggled with forward traction. I saw a pic of him with a mud/sand tire on earlier in the day, not sure if practice or his second race. After walking the track, sand tire was a necessity.
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KDXGarage 10/8/2018 5:34pm
10/8/2018 5:34pm
pbody wrote:
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he...
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he struggled with forward traction. I saw a pic of him with a mud/sand tire on earlier in the day, not sure if practice or his second race. After walking the track, sand tire was a necessity.
Tell me you're joking.
cdm806
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cdm806 10/8/2018 5:40pm
10/8/2018 5:40pm
Why did Red Bud add so much sand to the track? DId the FIM make them? Or did they simply want to throw everyone off on setup? Walking through the pits on Saturday, the european KTM teams were the only ones with real sand tires on their bikes. IDK if it's a Pirelli/Dunlop thing, but those on Pirellis could just rail on top of stuff that our guys sank into. The right hand turn before the uphill triple that AP crashed on on Saturday is a great example. Both Herlings and Coldenhoff could just roll into that corner and rail out of it. Our guys, and most others, just got burried and had to dig themselves out of it every lap.
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MotoX85
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MotoX85 10/8/2018 7:30pm
10/8/2018 7:30pm
Been going to Red Bud for years and we walked the whole track on Thursday. Not even close to a sand track. Track was the same as it's been every year with same soul type

It does have sand mixed in but no where close to a sand track

We.........got..........beat.

Just like we did last year at Ironman. The....Euros.....are ......faster. deal with it.
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pbody
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pbody 10/8/2018 7:35pm
10/8/2018 7:35pm Edited Date/Time 10/8/2018 7:36pm
pbody wrote:
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he...
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he struggled with forward traction. I saw a pic of him with a mud/sand tire on earlier in the day, not sure if practice or his second race. After walking the track, sand tire was a necessity.
KDXGarage wrote:
Tell me you're joking.


I wish I was....taken after the third moto.
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MotoX85
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MotoX85 10/8/2018 7:39pm
10/8/2018 7:39pm
pbody wrote:
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he...
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he struggled with forward traction. I saw a pic of him with a mud/sand tire on earlier in the day, not sure if practice or his second race. After walking the track, sand tire was a necessity.
KDXGarage wrote:
Tell me you're joking.
pbody wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/10/08/293309/s1200_20181007_173129.jpg[/img] I wish I was....taken after the third moto.


I wish I was....taken after the third moto.
I noticed this also. The track had dried out in sections but not enough to switch from a mud tire and it showed. Not sure the thinking on this one. Painfully obvious from the lack of wear on the lugs.
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drt410 10/8/2018 7:41pm
10/8/2018 7:41pm
So Ive been waiting for someone to ask this between the us vx gp nonstop bickering. So does this mean Red Bud is a sand track from now on? I cant imagine them removing all that sand after the race. So when its dry for the summer national its going to be much more loose. So thats just how red bud is now from here on out I guess.
motomike137
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motomike137 10/8/2018 7:56pm
10/8/2018 7:56pm
Red Bud isn't a "sand track". Red Bud is a clay base with lots of sand added over the last 20 years. Tracks get worn out, the dirt gets blown out and is carried off pound by pound on our motorcycles. The Ritchie's evidently decided to start replacing the missing soil with mostly sand. I remember going to a regional qualifier there many years ago and the start straight was so tilled and mixed with sand that you could get off your bike and it would stand up all by itself. Obviously with the impending weather they decided to double down and create a surface that above all would be raceable.
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Crush
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Crush 10/8/2018 8:08pm
10/8/2018 8:08pm
There's no denying it wasn't the same as usual, rain or not, but that wouldn't have mattered at the end of it.

For the USA to win in that condition they'd all have had to get starts and shyte would have to have gone their way... Did any of them start in the top 10 any moto?

Eli is probably as fast as RV or Dungey but his starts are suspect at best. Plessinger too. Barcia usually is a good gate-r but shit happens, especially when things aren't falling your way.
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drt410
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drt410 10/8/2018 8:08pm
10/8/2018 8:08pm
So is it going to be extra sandy now... I dont see them removing it all, so this is probably how it is from here on out.
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tempura
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tempura 10/8/2018 8:18pm
10/8/2018 8:18pm
I wouldn’t call it a sand track.
I think I remember Ricky saying on the broadcast, sand was added to deal with the amount of rain they were anticipating. Good job they did, it saved the event.
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KDXGarage
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KDXGarage 10/8/2018 8:45pm
10/8/2018 8:45pm
pbody wrote:
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he...
I want to know the thinking that goes into Barcia not running a mud/sand tire in the final race. I was there and could tell he struggled with forward traction. I saw a pic of him with a mud/sand tire on earlier in the day, not sure if practice or his second race. After walking the track, sand tire was a necessity.
KDXGarage wrote:
Tell me you're joking.
pbody wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2018/10/08/293309/s1200_20181007_173129.jpg[/img] I wish I was....taken after the third moto.


I wish I was....taken after the third moto.
Dear sir or ma'am in charge of tire choice:

HOW COULD YOU BE SO FUCKING STUPID?!?!

Mav, ocscottie, a few others: the same guy that put inters on the Ferraris for qualifying at Japan must also work at Yamaha!

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Bearuno
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Bearuno 10/8/2018 9:41pm
10/8/2018 9:41pm Edited Date/Time 10/8/2018 9:43pm
The Ritchies obviously know the type of weather they tend to have, this time of the year.

So, it was prepped it as it should be. I think a bloke or two in previous posts mention that is what generally they do.

Truly, I thought the track was Magnificently prepped and maintained. So impressive. And, it withstood, from what I can gather, tremendous amounts of rain, over quite a few days. The Ritchies and all of their people deserve the utmost praise.

Pictures put up, just above, show a perfectly ride-able / race-able track. Especially the sections that are 'Sand'. They look fantastic. One I (old and a crippled up as I am) would love to have ridden on in those weather conditions. Though, I'd be building myself up for that 'Dark Corner', each lap. Bugger all rutocross, and thank goodness for that - that sort of thing is just dreadful.

Think just how utterly dreadful the track would have been if track prep was the typical, deeply ripped chocolate that has ruled US for many years. Mind you, this year, that has changed - the Nationals had more wet races than the GPs, and they engaged their brains and Did Not rip a few tracks that were to be / got rained on. Really good
decisions were made, a few times this year by US track preppers!

That was No Sand Track. A few need to get their arses over to places like Lommel, and most Netherlands tracks. Bottomless pits, boys.

All in all, a wonderful event. Your US Team did as well as they could on the day, but they came up against a whole bunch of very good riders. I hope more will start to realize that. Throwing your riders (and Roger) under the bus is disgusting.

A race is a race - accept the results, and move on. There's always races to come.
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TeamFlannel 10/8/2018 10:02pm
10/8/2018 10:02pm Edited Date/Time 10/8/2018 10:05pm
The track is the same for everyone. Yes I do believe the outcome would have been much the same if it hadn't rained alot and sand brought in. The level of competition in MXGP is higher, saw that firsthand at the Ironman last year. They race motocross, in all conditions. We focus on perfectly groomed stupidcross.
Hats off to the Ritchie family? They pulled off an excellent event, the track changes were key to a raceable surface, and the staff was friendly and helpful during our 5 day stay. EPIC MUDBUD!
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Crush
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Crush 10/8/2018 10:09pm
10/8/2018 10:09pm
F150Motocrosser wrote:
We walked the track after the race... it was sooo insanely soft, wet, and practically bottomless sand in most areas. [b]This is not an excuse[/b] -...
We walked the track after the race... it was sooo insanely soft, wet, and practically bottomless sand in most areas.

This is not an excuse - it’s a fact that US riders hardly ever ride, race or train in a deep wet sand mix like what was at Red Bud this weekend.

No matter what side of the pond you’re on for the AMA vs GP’s argument - you know you were surprised at how poorly Team USA did this weekend.... do you really think it’s a coincidence all 3 guys rode like shit????

Again, my hat goes off to the competition. I absolutely already knew coming into this weekend that most American’s underestimate the depth of talent in the GP’s...

Anyone who thinks everything I just said is bullshit, is welcome to think so. As long as they truly believe in their heart that those results would be pretty much the same if the race was held on a hard packed Glen Helen; or hell, even Anaheim 1! Because, racing dirtbikes is racing dirtbikes, no matter what, right??

Congrats to France for the win and congrats to the Dutch for really blowing everyone's wigs back with your dominance!!!




How fucking cool is it walking the track after a pro-event!

So gnarly.
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Frank
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Frank 10/8/2018 10:19pm
10/8/2018 10:19pm
Never seen so many 450's overheating/steaming/blowing up. Track keeps getting worse every year. It is deeper sand than Southwick now.
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Sideways
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Sideways 10/8/2018 10:33pm
10/8/2018 10:33pm
Emig and paul said it was to prepare for the rain during the broadcast
aees
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aees 10/8/2018 10:49pm
10/8/2018 10:49pm
That was not a sand track ? If so southwick is bottomless sand (which it is not), and Glen Helen is also a sand track. Basically no ruts ti talk about, and no bumbs or waves a sand track will have after some races.

It was a soft track. Nothing special. And if anything, us riders could/should have gone there some days earlier to check it out to have more advantage. Find it ignorant when they say they got surprised.
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rangot 10/9/2018 1:10am
10/9/2018 1:10am
MB19 wrote:
It looked completely different than it did this summer. With the rain, it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, maybe...
It looked completely different than it did this summer. With the rain, it basically replicated a European practice track. Maybe it hurt the US team, maybe it didn't, I'm just curious why they brought in so much sand.
Just wait till next year to see a real sand track.
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NVA57 10/9/2018 1:53am
10/9/2018 1:53am
Can't we just appreciate how good the track was despite all the rain? Everyone was talking about how it was going to be a mud fest, but the pace was high, there were great battles and Coldenhoff & Paulin were sending the leap every lap.
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Sideways
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Sideways 10/9/2018 1:59am
10/9/2018 1:59am
Has anyone listen to pulp yet? They had talked to the track owner and he had said they only put extra sand on 2 or 3 corners. other than that, no extra sand was brought in. It was the rain that did this to the track.
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Post a reply to: (Edit: apologies to the people I've offended by calling Redbud a sand track)Anyone know why Redbud became a sand(IER) track?