Why does only Yamaha have SSS suspension?

H4L
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8/30/2018 6:15pm
Falcon wrote:
All I know is that I went from an Enzo-tuned '05 YZ (non-SSS) to a stock '06 (SSS,) and I could not tell the difference in...
All I know is that I went from an Enzo-tuned '05 YZ (non-SSS) to a stock '06 (SSS,) and I could not tell the difference in the forks. The new stockers were as good as Enzo stuff from '05.
Good observation. An 04 YZ250 owned with Enzo suspension was just as good as 09 & 11 models owned.
nascarnate326
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8/30/2018 6:39pm
I’ve got a 17 CRF 450 with Race Tech gold valves....it’s pretty much awesome. As good as my SSS on my Yamahas.
8/30/2018 7:10pm
Who's this Slipdog character anyway? I heard all he knows about suspension can be translated as, "I took the forks off a Harley once."
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make1go
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8/30/2018 7:20pm
This.....much like how Honda had a patent on the front brake line routing for YEARS, Yamaha has a special "handshake" with KYB to retain their settings...
This.....much like how Honda had a patent on the front brake line routing for YEARS, Yamaha has a special "handshake" with KYB to retain their settings and not give them out to any other mfg.

BTW: SSS stands for Speed Sensitive System....the valving is based on the speed of the fork slider travel, not position sensitive like 90% of the other systems spec'd from other mfg's are done as.
VRR7 wrote:
This does not even make sense - How hard can it be to open a set of yamaha forks and count the and measure the shims...
This does not even make sense - How hard can it be to open a set of yamaha forks and count the and measure the shims - It is not possible to patent shim stacks ! Patents are only for a new idea not know by anyone else !
mister2dt wrote:
Shim stacks amd valving on a Yamaha chassis wont readily translate to the same feel on a different chassis design. Revisions still need to be made...
Shim stacks amd valving on a Yamaha chassis wont readily translate to the same feel on a different chassis design. Revisions still need to be made to suit the chassis and the rider
aint half true....
i pulled some mint condition first gen (widely disliked) upside downs from a kx125 which were twitchy and unsettled on the kx and put them on my kdx220 and they worked really well, the change in weight, weight distribution, geometry etc just made them work....
i was taken aback by the difference with no changes other than clickers...
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The Shop

8/30/2018 7:44pm

Additionally, if you do decide to send your suspension to this so-called Slipdog character, be sure and pack it with at least 50,000 foam peanuts. He claims it polishes the external parts while in transit.
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resetjet
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8/30/2018 8:17pm
All cartridge forks are speed sensitive. Yamaha just has all the pieces in a row.
8/30/2018 8:30pm
resetjet wrote:
All cartridge forks are speed sensitive. Yamaha just has all the pieces in a row.
Exactly, it is the shims that make a fork 'speed sensitive'.

After studying all fork internals recently, l find that the earlier Showa 47mm twin chambers work just as the KYB SSS fork, they just need to be set-up better.
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racerx317
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Thompsons Station, TN, USA
8/30/2018 9:03pm
phatfi20 wrote:
MXA always talks about this. The SSS forks are used alot like posters above have said. Yamaha has the rights to their specific setup/valving which is...
MXA always talks about this. The SSS forks are used alot like posters above have said. Yamaha has the rights to their specific setup/valving which is obviously really good.

TM has used the same exact forks but with their own setup in them for years. The TM valving, up until recently hasn't been near as good.
mwr wrote:
I have a TM and the first thing I did was have the forks revalved with the YZ250 stack as a baseline. Good stuff.
We did the same... not sure why people think it’s a big deal that TM factory doesn’t run the same valving as the Yamaha’s.. you change it to suit your rider anyway. Fork revalved same as the YZ125 for my son’s ability and re-sprung for his weight as usual. We didn’t need anything done other than a correct spring for the TM Shock. It’s head and shoulders above the Yamaha shock or any other shock we’ve used for that matter.
H4L
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8/30/2018 11:47pm
Exactly, it is the shims that make a fork 'speed sensitive'. After studying all fork internals recently, l find that the earlier Showa 47mm twin chambers...
Exactly, it is the shims that make a fork 'speed sensitive'.

After studying all fork internals recently, l find that the earlier Showa 47mm twin chambers work just as the KYB SSS fork, they just need to be set-up better.
Agree. Have a set of 07 CR250r 47mm Showa B-kit set up by FC that feel as good as the KYB SSS ran.
resetjet
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Tampa, FL, USA
8/31/2018 5:57am
resetjet wrote:
All cartridge forks are speed sensitive. Yamaha just has all the pieces in a row.
Exactly, it is the shims that make a fork 'speed sensitive'. After studying all fork internals recently, l find that the earlier Showa 47mm twin chambers...
Exactly, it is the shims that make a fork 'speed sensitive'.

After studying all fork internals recently, l find that the earlier Showa 47mm twin chambers work just as the KYB SSS fork, they just need to be set-up better.
Well not sure about that but cartridge forks have an extra spring(or bladder) in the base valve. The sharper(faster) the fork is compressed, the more this spring or bladder gives making it sensitive to the speed of the fork (not the speed of the bike).
slipdog
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Nor Cal, CA, USA
8/31/2018 8:21am
resetjet wrote:
All cartridge forks are speed sensitive. Yamaha just has all the pieces in a row.
Exactly, it is the shims that make a fork 'speed sensitive'. After studying all fork internals recently, l find that the earlier Showa 47mm twin chambers...
Exactly, it is the shims that make a fork 'speed sensitive'.

After studying all fork internals recently, l find that the earlier Showa 47mm twin chambers work just as the KYB SSS fork, they just need to be set-up better.
resetjet wrote:
Well not sure about that but cartridge forks have an extra spring(or bladder) in the base valve. The sharper(faster) the fork is compressed, the more this...
Well not sure about that but cartridge forks have an extra spring(or bladder) in the base valve. The sharper(faster) the fork is compressed, the more this spring or bladder gives making it sensitive to the speed of the fork (not the speed of the bike).
That's not correct, spring force is relative to position regardless of the speed in which it is compressed.
8/31/2018 8:45am
phatfi20 wrote:
MXA always talks about this. The SSS forks are used alot like posters above have said. Yamaha has the rights to their specific setup/valving which is...
MXA always talks about this. The SSS forks are used alot like posters above have said. Yamaha has the rights to their specific setup/valving which is obviously really good.

TM has used the same exact forks but with their own setup in them for years. The TM valving, up until recently hasn't been near as good.
This.....much like how Honda had a patent on the front brake line routing for YEARS, Yamaha has a special "handshake" with KYB to retain their settings...
This.....much like how Honda had a patent on the front brake line routing for YEARS, Yamaha has a special "handshake" with KYB to retain their settings and not give them out to any other mfg.

BTW: SSS stands for Speed Sensitive System....the valving is based on the speed of the fork slider travel, not position sensitive like 90% of the other systems spec'd from other mfg's are done as.
VRR7 wrote:
This does not even make sense - How hard can it be to open a set of yamaha forks and count the and measure the shims...
This does not even make sense - How hard can it be to open a set of yamaha forks and count the and measure the shims - It is not possible to patent shim stacks ! Patents are only for a new idea not know by anyone else !
Trust me - you can copy the yamaha shim stack - put it into ANY other color bike that had the fork (or swap to the yz fork) and get a totally different feel than the yamaha

Suspension isn't all shim stacks - or damping. The chassis is MORE important to feel than the valving.

Remember reeds two two racer x article - commenting how PLUSH the factory clamps felt. Not multiply that across the entire chassis.

The yz is plush because the yamaha testing department puts emphasis on that OVER "connectedness"
The 14+ yz250f vs the 14 yz450 were totally different bikes in feel. We chased our ASS for 4 months trying to mimic the nice plush character the 250f had on the 450 - with a rider of mine.
We swapped forks, shocks, tons of valving etc......
Ultimately - after it always felt harsh - we ended up HUGELY stiffer in the forks than the 250f - and it was night and day better in feel and plush character - but never as good as the 250f.

I owned an 11 kx450 that had the SSS - coming off yamaha's previously my whole life. HATED the kawi at first. Valved forks exactly to my yz setting as a baseline - HATED them. I must have tested different fork settings literally every day I rode for 3 months

Gave up - and went to the shock - which didn't bother me much - and BOOM. 2 shock settings later - with just about ANY fork setting - I loved the bike - and what amazed me was from local pro speed at 150-160 lbs - to vet amatuer at 200-210 lbs - people loved it. It still felt a little firmer than a yzf - but it had some advantages over the yzf.

Bones has an article about this - if you get the balance right - the bike works well for a wide range of people.
MXA has propogated huge bullshit about the "SSS" fork. continuing to propogate the reason it's good on yz is because of a magical shim stack setting only yamaha can run - total bull.

Yamaha's 2006 shim settings are a far departure of 2019 - and they have made changes over the years - all of which test riders still "love" despite being quite different in settings.

Yamaha should be applauded for this - and until this year, has been scolded for it in ratings. Every customer of mine says - "just make my non blue bike feel like a blue bike" - and they spend all year and lots of money chasing that - they should have just bought a blue bike if plush character was their number 1 priority.

You don't buy a race car with low profile tires and magnesium rims to drive on pothole roads - most of us dont buy bikes to race sx - and very few of us buy 450's and use all the power they have - so buying a bike off what your nuts like (big HP) vs what your hands like (plush) is stupid - yet we do it year after year - myself included being the worst offfender - who doesn't smile when your bike rips your arms off.


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Mr. Info
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9/1/2018 6:10am
Not only does Slip know his shit for his age he’s a handsome man as well. ?
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