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Honda is on their second year with the '18 and third with '19...there's a frame change and possible case change coming (removing kickstart area for the R) which would be on the '19 and '20 before the next generation change.
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Correct me if I'm wrong here guys but, this bike down to appear to be revolutionary..... Electric start and a hydraulic clutch are not groundbreaking changes. The engine looks pretty compact though and the cylinder does appear to be pretty dam small. Here's a huge shot in the dark.... What if Kawasaki dropped the displacement down to 400 and were able to easily get as much torque and HP out of this new engine as the current gen 450 engine! It's not all that far fetched with all the advancements that have been made to the 4 stroke engine in MX Bikes ... Down draft straight shot intake with a dual injector setup and EFI advancements plus basically on the fly EFI mapping changes that can be done in a matter of minutes.
As a 400 Kawi would be able to shave some pounds off the bike, not incredibly drastic but another 10lb loss and they're sitting next to KTM for lightest bike honors.
A 350cc KTM engine is only a couple pounds lighter than a 450 KTM engine.
One more thing on 450's in general I think it would be a BOLD but wise move for manufacturers to drop displacement down from the current 450cc displacement
to a 400 or even 350 for that matter..... I know some of you 450 loyalists are already grabbing your gas cans and pitch forks and considering lighting this post on fire but hear me out first.....
Bone stock, I'm sure we can all agree the current crop of 450 engines are flat out beasts especially the YZ450f and in all reality, aside from re-designing to engine for lighter weight, I feel as if there isn't much more that can be developed, advanced, or added to coax more performance out of a 450 engine....kinda like the 500 2-strokes back in the day the engines went largely yu McHale's for the last 10 years of their production run. Sure they were "detuned" every year but mostly the only thing that Kawi and Honda could do to the bikes was move the power around, not effectively ADD performance because the 500's were as fast as a production bike theoretically could or should be and this is kind or where I see 450's in their current space. They certainly don't need to be any faster than they currently are and I'm sure a lot of you would agree wether you agree with the thesis of my post here or not. IFF (geometry term) say, any of the "Big 5 or 6" had the stones to go for it and drop their open class bike down in displacement to a 400 or preferably a 350 to replace their 450, there would be a long future of engine advancements and they could "grow" horsepower with technological advancements in every facet of engine design and performance exactly like they're countinuing to do with the 250f bikes. I’m sure some of you might argue that the engines will have to be spun out at higher rpm’s but we are long past the days when Vals would stretch at an accelerated rate and constantly need be adjusted all the metallurgy advancements of been made since the four strokes came out would ensure a pretty reliable and safe future for a 350 or a 400 and they were throwing the book at the engine year in and year out to advance it and make it more powerful I’m sure they could eventually drop the RPMs down to a lower ceiling to 250 F‘s run therefore ultimately replacing the 450 with a smaller and lighter version. Look at the 250f in general, they started out at roughly 33 hp and are now at 43hp bone stock. KTM and Hunsky obviously already have a leg up on the Japanese mfg’s BUT with the rate of speed of technology these days, im sure the Japanese would have no problem delivering a competitive alternative to the KTM/Husky juggernaut.
When the 350 first came out, MXA (yes I know ... riddles) had an interesting point in their text that paradoxically the 350 should have been about 8 pounds lighter than it was just because when you go 100 mL smaller in the engine to the 250 F the numbers just didn’t really lined up like they should and a sliding scale there was a substantial weight difference between the 350 and the 250 F when you’re talking about the only difference being 100 mL where as there was a very minute difference in the way from the 350 when it was just 100cc smaller than the 450 I think a purpose designed 350 using none of the 450 platform from any of the mfg’s has the potential to be a much lighter bike IF the 350 became every mfg’s flagship mx bike, replacing the 450.
Michael, just above this post i made an argument FOR abandoning the 450 and going to a 350 or 400 and simce youre very well versed on the subject of bike design and incredibly knowledgable on the subject technically and have the insight of being around the mfg reps Id REALLY like to hear your take on what I wrote taking into account product developement life cycle and the ongoing advancements that seem to be much slower in the 450 as i kind of feel that there isnt much more to do with advancing and increasing the performance/hp of a 450 as compared to the 250f .... i mean wouldnt you agree that a 65-70hp 450 isnt really feasible when it comes to having a rideable bike that is an effective race machine. I think there is a point of diminishing return by increasing hp and advancing the performance OF a 450. I’d bet that any retail engine building services company like Pro Circuit or even now Race Tech don’t see much in the way of porting changes high compression cam and everything all wrapped into one engine packages for the average motorcross rider that owns a 450 and 90% of their business is based solely on engine performance and adding power to a 250 F .... I’d really like to hear your thoughts on my post above as well as incorporating this post please if you don’t mind
Pit Row
The KTM 450 engine is only about one pound heavier than the 350 engine and four pounds heavier than the 250 engine.
First, the 500 to 450 comparison. When manufacturers abandoned 500s, that was mostly due to sales and seeing the consumer had heavily drifted to the 250 two-strokes of the era. At this point, the 450 is extremely popular and for every OEM sells more than double of their 250Fs. So clearly the majority of the market hasn't had that same movement. The 350 is a popular model for KTM, but their 450 is still a great seller as well.
As for engines, the 450s continue to make a bit more power each year and become more ride-able at the same time. I've ridden a couple hopped up 450s in the 65HP range that were ridiculously easy to ride and the production bikes can keep going that direction.
Aftermarket hop ups, shops that do full engine like Twisted Development and PC definitely have more 250s in the door but that's what more young kids, amateur racers are on where they want an extra competitive edge.
As for RaceTech, that does mostly cylinder head services, I see a fairly 50/50 split of 450 to 250.
Having ridden 350s a decent amount...they're fun but I don't think they're the replacement for the play bike a 450 can be. I like a 350 for track only use, but not for a range of riding like a 450.
Lastly, the weight thing...they aren't going to become drastically lighter just because they went 350 (look ath the 450 weight difference between Honda and KTM now, Honda 350 wouldn't magically lose 15 pounds...)
Please add a real exhaust header and pipe so we can save $1000 on a new bike. That boat anchor deal you put on from the factory is a no worky deal!
Love,
Kawboy
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