Herlings Corner Speed

Robgvx
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8/28/2017 1:18pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 1:19pm
rompin87 wrote:
There you go robgvx, maybe if you had this advice earlier on in your career who knows where you would have landed? Factory kawasaki maybe? Wink
Prejump wrote:
hahaha very good.
Smile
8/28/2017 1:55pm
Robgvx wrote:
Personally I think that stiff suspension 'because you're fast' is stupid, and even the pros fall into the same trap. I've tested factory bikes that had...
Personally I think that stiff suspension 'because you're fast' is stupid, and even the pros fall into the same trap. I've tested factory bikes that had worse suspension than stock. In fact, I tested a Jan de Groot factory Kawasaki once, and afterwards I rode a beat-up Suzuki that some novice guy wanted me to try and the suspension was way better!

I don't care how fast you are, small bumps are still small bumps, and if the tyre doesn't maintain contact with the ground, even by half an inch in a corner, you have no traction and your tyres won't hold a line. In fact, if you're hitting those small bumps faster there's even an argument for needing suspension even softer to get the tyres to follow the ground.

Set up your bike for the hundreds of smaller bumps per lap rather than the one big jump.

Supple, compliant suspension gives you grip everywhere and allows you to go faster. Rigid suspension that means you don't bottom on the one biggest hit on the track makes you slower everywhere else.

If you're interested in an American's opinion of a GP factory bike read this:

https://motocrossactionmag.com/we-ride-romain-febvres-mxdn-winning-yama…
Thanks for that link. Twas a very interesting read, and food for thought...
Titan1
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8/28/2017 2:12pm
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Fourth_Floor
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Saint Marys, PA, USA
8/28/2017 2:18pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
The race I watched showed Eli and Marvin either crashing or on the verge of crashing trying to keep pace with Herlings. He spanked our best riders this weekend, plain and simple.

I'm pumped to see how this weekend goes.

The Shop

Flip109
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8/28/2017 2:19pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
1st moto Marvin actually caught him and was trying to pass him and then stalled it in a corner and lost touch. Nobody seems to remember seeing that. Then Marvin has it handled in the second moto and makes a stupid mistake out front all by himself. It was not the ass whooping it seemed. Now for the American born riders it was lol
8/28/2017 2:23pm
Rowlands wrote:
If it comes down to suspension and tires we should see some bike changes for next season. The AMA teams and riders must be kicking themselves...
If it comes down to suspension and tires we should see some bike changes for next season. The AMA teams and riders must be kicking themselves for missing such a simple set up issue Whistling
if they would only test....
Prejump
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8/28/2017 2:30pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 2:30pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Herlings crashed as well in that moto BTW. Riding thru traffic affects your race much more then leading. Roost, changing lines, missing the big jumps because half the AMA field doesnt hit them etc.

Despite all that one way or another he still won. Marvin got a tough section wrong because he was pushing hard. No doubt his pit board let him know who was coming.

Herlings speed effected your top boys this wk end. Even Bagget said in press conference he needs to get to europe to work out this speed.
philG
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8/28/2017 2:33pm
Rowlands wrote:
If it comes down to suspension and tires we should see some bike changes for next season. The AMA teams and riders must be kicking themselves...
If it comes down to suspension and tires we should see some bike changes for next season. The AMA teams and riders must be kicking themselves for missing such a simple set up issue Whistling
sclark309d wrote:
if they would only test....
This is just Gold.
8/28/2017 2:33pm
WCRider wrote:
Tomac as a better corner skill. A lot of people said Tomac rode over his head at the beginning moto 1, i dont tkink so, he...
Tomac as a better corner skill.

A lot of people said Tomac rode over his head at the beginning moto 1, i dont tkink so, he was back on him.

I feel he could have crunched him when he wanted or almost.

Look again at the beginning of the race and make your opinion.
Bro, just look through the rose tinted glasses.

At the beginning of the race it was clear who was quicker.

The end too.

That's the guy who won.

8/28/2017 2:45pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 2:47pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Are you crazy? ET had his pace for about a lap and hit the deck. Couldn't keep up and That's the end of it.

ET finished 45 secs behind which I'm sure you know, a crash that cost him about 7 seconds and he finished 45 behind, yeah he had the pace Laughing

Moto 2 JH was dead last after the crash, he was basically 20 seconds behind at one point and he won, again Tomac was a massive way behind after being overtaken and basically taunted mid air. Tomac had a title to win, nothing wrong wth how he did it but don't claim he had the pace, he had nothing for Musquin or Bagget, never mind Herlings Whistling

Never mind MM would have won, he crashed and he came second, that's racing and there is no if this or that.

Or we could play the game just for fun

IF JH didn't crash he would have won moto 2 by 30 seconds easily, does that make sense?
F.B
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8/28/2017 2:52pm
Robgvx wrote:
Personally I think that stiff suspension 'because you're fast' is stupid, and even the pros fall into the same trap. I've tested factory bikes that had...
Personally I think that stiff suspension 'because you're fast' is stupid, and even the pros fall into the same trap. I've tested factory bikes that had worse suspension than stock. In fact, I tested a Jan de Groot factory Kawasaki once, and afterwards I rode a beat-up Suzuki that some novice guy wanted me to try and the suspension was way better!

I don't care how fast you are, small bumps are still small bumps, and if the tyre doesn't maintain contact with the ground, even by half an inch in a corner, you have no traction and your tyres won't hold a line. In fact, if you're hitting those small bumps faster there's even an argument for needing suspension even softer to get the tyres to follow the ground.

Set up your bike for the hundreds of smaller bumps per lap rather than the one big jump.

Supple, compliant suspension gives you grip everywhere and allows you to go faster. Rigid suspension that means you don't bottom on the one biggest hit on the track makes you slower everywhere else.

If you're interested in an American's opinion of a GP factory bike read this:

https://motocrossactionmag.com/we-ride-romain-febvres-mxdn-winning-yama…
Zycki11 wrote:
The faster you go, the more you push the suspension. While the best up Suzuki felt better to you, for a factory rider it would just...
The faster you go, the more you push the suspension. While the best up Suzuki felt better to you, for a factory rider it would just blow through the stroke and be useless because they attack much harder and push the bike more. Even if you are fast, they have a purpose behind the setup that works for them as a individual.
rompin87 wrote:
There you go robgvx, maybe if you had this advice earlier on in your career who knows where you would have landed? Factory kawasaki maybe? Wink
Grinning
Sodipop
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8/28/2017 3:03pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 3:08pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Flip109 wrote:
1st moto Marvin actually caught him and was trying to pass him and then stalled it in a corner and lost touch. Nobody seems to remember...
1st moto Marvin actually caught him and was trying to pass him and then stalled it in a corner and lost touch. Nobody seems to remember seeing that. Then Marvin has it handled in the second moto and makes a stupid mistake out front all by himself. It was not the ass whooping it seemed. Now for the American born riders it was lol
All I saw was Marvin riding over his head to catch him and herlings riding a very comfortable pace.

In moto 2 it's also laughable to say that Marvin was cruising late in that race. I'd say the gap was probably down to about 6 seconds when Marvin crashed. Herlings was going at least 1.5 seconds faster a lap and Marvin was going 3-4 seconds faster than anyone else
8/28/2017 3:20pm
Are you crazy? ET had his pace for about a lap and hit the deck. Couldn't keep up and That's the end of it. ET finished...
Are you crazy? ET had his pace for about a lap and hit the deck. Couldn't keep up and That's the end of it.

ET finished 45 secs behind which I'm sure you know, a crash that cost him about 7 seconds and he finished 45 behind, yeah he had the pace Laughing

Moto 2 JH was dead last after the crash, he was basically 20 seconds behind at one point and he won, again Tomac was a massive way behind after being overtaken and basically taunted mid air. Tomac had a title to win, nothing wrong wth how he did it but don't claim he had the pace, he had nothing for Musquin or Bagget, never mind Herlings Whistling

Never mind MM would have won, he crashed and he came second, that's racing and there is no if this or that.

Or we could play the game just for fun

IF JH didn't crash he would have won moto 2 by 30 seconds easily, does that make sense?
An important piece of information you seem to be forgetting is that Tomac's goal was not to beat Jeffrey, maybe for a brief second that was his goal but overall it was to win the title. He said he didn't feel like he was riding out of his mind to stay with Herlings which is what led him to make some kind of make a pass attempt, where he landed like a foot too far to the left and dug the front.

I'm not trying to say Tomac would have passed him, I'm not trying to say Tomac would have won, I'm not trying to take anything away from Herlings at all as his performance was nothing short of incredible but you seem to be having a field day here with this and I think you need to come back to reality.. under normal circumstances you really think Tomac just has nothing at all for Herlings?
JC21
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8/28/2017 3:21pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Big, big lol.

"Tomac and Marvin WOULD have beat Jeff IF they didn't CRASH".

Titan1
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Lehi, UT, USA
8/28/2017 3:24pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Prejump wrote:
Herlings crashed as well in that moto BTW. Riding thru traffic affects your race much more then leading. Roost, changing lines, missing the big jumps because...
Herlings crashed as well in that moto BTW. Riding thru traffic affects your race much more then leading. Roost, changing lines, missing the big jumps because half the AMA field doesnt hit them etc.

Despite all that one way or another he still won. Marvin got a tough section wrong because he was pushing hard. No doubt his pit board let him know who was coming.

Herlings speed effected your top boys this wk end. Even Bagget said in press conference he needs to get to europe to work out this speed.
I fully expected him to win at least one moto (I even predicted a 1-1 in a pre-race thread)...I'm only saying that from what I read on Vital on Saturday-Sunday made me expect to have seen Herlings really dominate-like a WAY WAY faster than the top AMA guys...and what I saw when I watched the races today didn't support that (that's my only point). Yes, he won. Yes, he was the fastest guy all day. But he was far from heads and shoulders above Marvin, and certainly Tomac had the speed to run his pace if he weren't racing for the title.

2nd moto After his crash, and until Marvin put it on cruise control, the gap stayed basically the same (between 15 and 20 seconds...depending on one or the others lap times). After Marvin put it on cruise control, and after Herlings made it to 2nd...Herlings dropped the gap to 10 seconds until Marvin crashed. Then after getting passed, Marvin closed the gap on a charging Herlings and got to within striking distance of Herlings before stalling in a corner. Sealing the deal for Herlings. It's not like Herlings came from 39th and a minute down-through a stacked AMA field-to catch a charging Marvin and pulled away (which is what I was expecting based on comments on vital on saturday and sunday).

Tomac was going to race him until he went down. Once he did...he put his ego aside and rode for the title. There was no fair comparison of Tomac's speed on Saturday.

Herlings is FAST...one of the fastest in the world. The AMA motocross scene is as weak as its been in probably 40 years (in terms of depth and talent), while the MXGP scene is as strong as its ever been in 40 years (in terms of depth and talen). No more can Americans claim to be the hands down fastest in motocross, it pains me to say that, but that's the reality of it.

Tomac and Marvin are the only two current AMA racers who could challenge for a title or race wins in the GP's (Roczen is an unknown at this point...but by the looks of things, he should make it back to full form and he'd be included in that list). But there are probably 4 or 5 guys in MXGP-maybe 6-who could come to America and challenge for a title and race wins.

I blame supercross. Smile
mccread
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8/28/2017 3:25pm
Herlings did the fastest lap of the race on lap 14. Pretty sure Marvin knew he was charging so couldn't drop his pace and made the mistake.

I expect Tomac to be on it this weekend, so does Herlings. Eli was was trying in practice and until he crashed. So it will be interesting if he can step up the pace to Herlings level this weekend. And it won't just be Herlings going fast either... a lot of depth in MXGP, especially with a bad start.
Idp57
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8/28/2017 3:29pm
I was there and I have never ever seen someone riding like him.Amazing speed through traffic.He went down ,Noren crashed in front of him,second to last or maybe dead last and in the end of the second lap he was 10th.He passed 29 dudes like A rider passing C riders,I am not kidding!!!I watched the motos Sunday and they didn't even show it.I am so glad that I was there sick with fever but I saw masterpiece.
Flip109
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8/28/2017 3:31pm
Titan1 wrote:
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was...
I wasn't able to watch the moto's until today...though I followed the race on Vital on Saturday and read everyones opinions yesterday...and from what everyone was talking about, I thought Herlings was way way way faster than everyone else.

He wasn't...2nd moto he'd of lost to Musquin by about 10 seconds had marvin not crashed...from the gate drop until he got into 2nd the gap fluctuated between 15 and 18 seconds (at the end of the 2nd lap, Herlings was in like 24th place or something, but only 18 seconds back) all the way until he got around the 4 for 2nd, after getting around Baggett he dropped the gap to 10 seconds when Marvin crashed...but Marvin wasn't pushing at that point...he was cruising to a win. Basically he was going the same speed as Musquin the entire race (though Herlings was coming through traffic while Marvin had a clear track).

1st moto...Tomac had his pace, and even managed to close to within striking distance right up until he crashed...and he ended up beating marvin by 6 seconds or so.

Anyway...yes Herlings was fast...we all knew he was fast (in another thread I said he was just as likely to go 3-3 and he was to go 1-1, and I expected at least one moto win)...but watching the races, it would be a stretch to say he "dominated".
Flip109 wrote:
1st moto Marvin actually caught him and was trying to pass him and then stalled it in a corner and lost touch. Nobody seems to remember...
1st moto Marvin actually caught him and was trying to pass him and then stalled it in a corner and lost touch. Nobody seems to remember seeing that. Then Marvin has it handled in the second moto and makes a stupid mistake out front all by himself. It was not the ass whooping it seemed. Now for the American born riders it was lol
Sodipop wrote:
All I saw was Marvin riding over his head to catch him and herlings riding a very comfortable pace. In moto 2 it's also laughable to...
All I saw was Marvin riding over his head to catch him and herlings riding a very comfortable pace.

In moto 2 it's also laughable to say that Marvin was cruising late in that race. I'd say the gap was probably down to about 6 seconds when Marvin crashed. Herlings was going at least 1.5 seconds faster a lap and Marvin was going 3-4 seconds faster than anyone else
1st moto maybe he was riding over his head BUT he did catch him.....

He had a lap and a half to go 2nd moto. He had the race in the bag. He said himself he was just trying to finish out the race AND Herlings said he got lucky Marvin made the mistake.

Marvin ran the fastest lap times of the day also.

See it how you want tho, doesn't matter to me either way. I like Herlings. He was on fire. It was just an observation.
Titan1
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8/28/2017 3:47pm
mccread wrote:
Herlings did the fastest lap of the race on lap 14. Pretty sure Marvin knew he was charging so couldn't drop his pace and made the...
Herlings did the fastest lap of the race on lap 14. Pretty sure Marvin knew he was charging so couldn't drop his pace and made the mistake.

I expect Tomac to be on it this weekend, so does Herlings. Eli was was trying in practice and until he crashed. So it will be interesting if he can step up the pace to Herlings level this weekend. And it won't just be Herlings going fast either... a lot of depth in MXGP, especially with a bad start.
But he was like 15 seconds down on lap 14...Marvin said himself that he was just trying to ride it out for the win...and Herlings himself said he got lucky that he crashed.

I hope Tomac and Herlings do battle this weekend. I have no doubt Tomac can run his pace...He proved it Saturday...there is no "step[ing] up to Herlings level"...he's already there.
Sodipop
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8/28/2017 3:55pm
I'm not going to sit here and call herlings lucky when clearly he was better than Marvin
Flip109
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8/28/2017 3:59pm
Sodipop wrote:
I'm not going to sit here and call herlings lucky when clearly he was better than Marvin
He wasn't lucky. He was clearly hauling ass and fell himself the second moto. He kicked everyone's ass except Marvin. He beat him, but I think Marvin should get more credit for being the only one to actually keep him honest. That was mainly my point. No pun intended to Herlings.
cappelmans
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8/28/2017 4:06pm
Man I'd like to see the LITpro data from Herlings from both moto's compared to Marvin, should be interesting!
Park Boys
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8/28/2017 4:09pm
Titan1 wrote:
I fully expected him to win at least one moto (I even predicted a 1-1 in a pre-race thread)...I'm only saying that from what I read...
I fully expected him to win at least one moto (I even predicted a 1-1 in a pre-race thread)...I'm only saying that from what I read on Vital on Saturday-Sunday made me expect to have seen Herlings really dominate-like a WAY WAY faster than the top AMA guys...and what I saw when I watched the races today didn't support that (that's my only point). Yes, he won. Yes, he was the fastest guy all day. But he was far from heads and shoulders above Marvin, and certainly Tomac had the speed to run his pace if he weren't racing for the title.

2nd moto After his crash, and until Marvin put it on cruise control, the gap stayed basically the same (between 15 and 20 seconds...depending on one or the others lap times). After Marvin put it on cruise control, and after Herlings made it to 2nd...Herlings dropped the gap to 10 seconds until Marvin crashed. Then after getting passed, Marvin closed the gap on a charging Herlings and got to within striking distance of Herlings before stalling in a corner. Sealing the deal for Herlings. It's not like Herlings came from 39th and a minute down-through a stacked AMA field-to catch a charging Marvin and pulled away (which is what I was expecting based on comments on vital on saturday and sunday).

Tomac was going to race him until he went down. Once he did...he put his ego aside and rode for the title. There was no fair comparison of Tomac's speed on Saturday.

Herlings is FAST...one of the fastest in the world. The AMA motocross scene is as weak as its been in probably 40 years (in terms of depth and talent), while the MXGP scene is as strong as its ever been in 40 years (in terms of depth and talen). No more can Americans claim to be the hands down fastest in motocross, it pains me to say that, but that's the reality of it.

Tomac and Marvin are the only two current AMA racers who could challenge for a title or race wins in the GP's (Roczen is an unknown at this point...but by the looks of things, he should make it back to full form and he'd be included in that list). But there are probably 4 or 5 guys in MXGP-maybe 6-who could come to America and challenge for a title and race wins.

I blame supercross. Smile
If Roczen gets back to healthy the list of riders to challenge him here will be zero from either side of the pond. How quickly people forget how dominate he was. Marv has never had a faster lap than him in 450 outdoors and has never caught him unless he was cruising at the end and he certainly has never needed Marv to crash to win a Moto much less a O/A. Hopefully he gets back to 100%.

Plus Anderson won in his first 450 MX race in Europe, You could throw his name in the mix, injuries and Ryan retering made this season be a two horse race at the end.
Idp57
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8/28/2017 4:25pm
@ParkBoys Did you saw the race in person?
Park Boys
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8/28/2017 4:47pm
Idp57 wrote:
@ParkBoys Did you saw the race in person?
Nope watched it on TV paid attention to lap times. I said as soon as he came over he was gonna win the race. Still think people are blowing it out of proportion to fit there agenda. I'll even say Herlings with him having more speed than race craft would do better on our tracks, but at no point watching him race yesterday did I think he was next level. He was the best on the day. MM had the fastest time of the day, next level to me usually means your best times are at least 1-1.5 seconds a lap faster. Bagget with one hand nearly matched his outright speed for a lap, not the race obvisouly. He was the winner like a predicted though. I get a kick out of these people saying Euros can ride and point to Herlings. Roczen was 20 winning 450 races here over RD, Stew, Tomac and Canrad. It's nothing new.
Sodipop
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8/28/2017 4:54pm
Idp57 wrote:
@ParkBoys Did you saw the race in person?
Park Boys wrote:
Nope watched it on TV paid attention to lap times. I said as soon as he came over he was gonna win the race. Still think...
Nope watched it on TV paid attention to lap times. I said as soon as he came over he was gonna win the race. Still think people are blowing it out of proportion to fit there agenda. I'll even say Herlings with him having more speed than race craft would do better on our tracks, but at no point watching him race yesterday did I think he was next level. He was the best on the day. MM had the fastest time of the day, next level to me usually means your best times are at least 1-1.5 seconds a lap faster. Bagget with one hand nearly matched his outright speed for a lap, not the race obvisouly. He was the winner like a predicted though. I get a kick out of these people saying Euros can ride and point to Herlings. Roczen was 20 winning 450 races here over RD, Stew, Tomac and Canrad. It's nothing new.
You said he would win because hedging your bets was your best option. You are obsessed with herlings and run around this place spouting your negative opinions. It's the skip bayless technique. If he went 3-3 you would be gloriously talking about how he wasn't even as good as you thought he was.
Idp57
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8/28/2017 5:10pm
I know one thin for sure;eyes don't lie.
Zycki11
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Edwardsville, IL, USA
8/28/2017 5:58pm Edited Date/Time 8/28/2017 5:59pm
Zycki11 wrote:
The faster you go, the more you push the suspension. While the best up Suzuki felt better to you, for a factory rider it would just...
The faster you go, the more you push the suspension. While the best up Suzuki felt better to you, for a factory rider it would just blow through the stroke and be useless because they attack much harder and push the bike more. Even if you are fast, they have a purpose behind the setup that works for them as a individual.
philG wrote:
Reading this while drinking tea was not a good idea.

Alright alright, I apologize. I do not spend a ton of time on the forum and know who every vital member is. That said,everyone including a factory kawi rider knows what I said was truth.
8/28/2017 9:17pm
HenryA wrote:
You know that you're on Vital when someone writes that Herlings win is fake news Laughing
mx317 wrote:
His meaning must have been lost in translation Wink
Or he's Steve Harvey.



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