GP vs AMA

bvm111
Posts
10126
Joined
7/1/2008
Location
Las Vegas, NV, USA
7/30/2017 8:34pm
I'm starting to become a firm believer that the GP riders are much more talented and faster than our guys state side. Ferrandis came right over...
I'm starting to become a firm believer that the GP riders are much more talented and faster than our guys state side. Ferrandis came right over and has been battling up front, they smoked RV, the fastest guy we've had in years and they've been whooping our ass at MXDN. I feel like if they sent over their top 5 riders, Tomac may finish off the podium. Am I the only one thinking this?
Yes... yes you are
Flip109
Posts
3460
Joined
6/15/2007
Location
USA
7/30/2017 8:44pm
Same ole shit, different thread lol
agn5009
Posts
6750
Joined
6/8/2012
Location
State College, PA, USA
7/30/2017 8:51pm
Swann wrote:
The GP series is an entirely different game from the perspective of an American. From logistics to training to travel to time zones, climates, languages, track...
The GP series is an entirely different game from the perspective of an American. From logistics to training to travel to time zones, climates, languages, track familiarity, and vastly different track conditions (Qatar to Lommel?!), etc... I give those guys a ton of credit for enduring those GP seasons and to any American who goes over there to compete. Qatar to Indonesia to Argentina to Europe, Eastern Europe. That's nothing like traversing the contiguous United States. Nevermind all the other bullshit.

It would take a top American prospect a few years to adjust to all that and expect to be competitive. I don't really think it was reasonable to expect RV to go straight over there and compete. RV and his wife were on an extended vacation. He wasn't there to dominate.

Here's an argument that's worthy of discussion: it's easier for a European to come over here and assimilate to American professional racing and have a chance at succeeding than it is for an American to go to Europe and experience the same.

Broadening the way you evaluate and judge top professional motocross racers to include the gazillion other factors that go into being successful beyond talent on a bike may eventually make this stupid fucking argument go away forever, along with world peace and a cure for cancer, so I'm not holding my breath.

This age-old argument of who is better or not is stupid, and old. They are all badasses.
RV did go over and compete though. People act like he was a 15th place rider. He still won an overall and only competed in 3 rounds (I think?) He would have only got better. Honestly I think if he had completed the season he would have been right there in the points battle. If he had returned for year 2 he would have been a serious threat.

The Shop

JMR1976
Posts
1144
Joined
5/15/2015
Location
Aptos, CA, USA
7/30/2017 8:54pm
I really prefer motocross.
VRR7
Posts
860
Joined
6/1/2011
Location
ZA
7/30/2017 9:08pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2017 9:10pm
The AMA was the top series in the world then FIM MXGP got involved and tagged onto the AMA series. AMA lost out and MXGP got stronger. This political moves coincides with when USA stopped wining in MXDN. Basically MXGP via FIM came and stole AMA's mojo but you can check out the whole political situation it should be published somewhere online.... Its interesting. USA won all the time MXDN and MXGP was dying as a brand and all MXGP riders wanted to do was ride AMA ... then.... the rest is all history. Thanks globalist its all part of how they are stealing America hehe ....
TallCan 16
Posts
132
Joined
11/22/2011
Location
Bellingham, WA, USA
7/30/2017 9:15pm
Not sure about the series, but the USA definitely has the best forum.
Mit12
Posts
2211
Joined
6/23/2014
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
7/30/2017 9:58pm
I'm starting to become a firm believer that the GP riders are much more talented and faster than our guys state side. Ferrandis came right over...
I'm starting to become a firm believer that the GP riders are much more talented and faster than our guys state side. Ferrandis came right over and has been battling up front, they smoked RV, the fastest guy we've had in years and they've been whooping our ass at MXDN. I feel like if they sent over their top 5 riders, Tomac may finish off the podium. Am I the only one thinking this?
If memory serves me correct a burnt out RV that did not want to race anymore won a GP in the premier class.

The facts are, the top guys from both sides of the pond can be competative in either MX series.
CrGuy2T
Posts
4507
Joined
3/11/2015
Location
Santa Fe, TX, USA
7/30/2017 10:06pm Edited Date/Time 7/30/2017 10:11pm
I'll rewind back to his 2011, his last MXON race I believe, the same year as his first national title. He stuck around for 4 years...
I'll rewind back to his 2011, his last MXON race I believe, the same year as his first national title. He stuck around for 4 years after that. I know he wasn't at the top of his game, but an 80% RV was still a top 5 rider over here. I'm not sure if it's money, lack of teams, tracks or what, but it just seems like there is faster riders coming from the GP's than we have here at the moment. Supercross isn't helping our guys out.
No no no you go back to 2007........ chicken shit don't try pulling a bad year out of your ass before looking at the rest of the stats.
Sodipop
Posts
863
Joined
5/10/2016
Location
Petaluma, CA, USA
7/30/2017 10:09pm
Do we know who is in for the US GP? Just saw that Pourcel and Alessi will race
7/30/2017 10:44pm
No US rider atm is on the level with mental strength and speed as the last champions, RC JS, RV and RD.

Tomac could get there, he has the speed but I have a feeling get the feeling Tomac is too intelligent to be a racer, his mental side lacks.

The MXGP currently has 2-3 riders at that RC, JS, RD, RV level. Cairoli, herlings and gasjer.
Danster
Posts
812
Joined
5/31/2010
Location
West Hills, CA, USA
7/30/2017 10:59pm
450 class, MXGP racers are so much better, faster and a deeper class.
250's AMA is the better class...
USA seems to be going through some transition years, give us a few years
and the US will be back on top.
aees
Posts
2801
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
USA
7/31/2017 1:40am
Last year neither Herlings, Cairoli or Gajser was 100%. All more or less coming from injury or being injured.

This year it is different. Desalle has stepped up also while Nagl and Febvre stepped back. I think the only one that can run speed with those 3 GP riders are Tomac, Andersson, Bagget and Musquin while Tomac is most likely the only one that can go even with Cairoli and Herlings at full speed.

If you add starts as a factor it becomes even more in favour for Cairoli since he rarely starts outside top 3, most likely going holeshot. Herlings starts is a bit better than Tomac, but not much.
Tzevtkoff
Posts
123
Joined
4/23/2017
Location
BE
7/31/2017 1:50am
So what about when Tomac smoked them all at Charlotte?
The hybrid national track?
Glen Helen hybrid track too ?
7/31/2017 3:17am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2017 3:25am
The MXDN win results means almost nothing in regard to the AMA vs GP comparison. Team USA very nearly won it the last 2 years, and there were many years in their 7 yr winning streak where they very nearly lost it. Both points in the victorial of some fans (especially pre 2012 when this AMA vs GP stuff was very bad, and now lately from the other side) has often been lost though.

Overall America (if they keep competing) will win most of the events because they have the bigger source of talent to pick from to represent a single country i.e they are the strongest MX nation, which is what the MXDN format is ostensibly designed to discover.

Seeing a couple of other countries win over the last 5 yrs has been refreshing, but only individual performances are really useful for comparing series, and even then can only be taken so far.
Sideways
Posts
1880
Joined
9/8/2012
Location
SE
7/31/2017 3:54am
Musquin and tomac would be right in the mix with the top at mxgp. A healthy bagget and andersson could have something.

But otherwise, the field in mxgp is imo MUCH deeper this year than AMA. You can have Febvre in 9th place in a moto and not moving forward and he is still putting on close to the same laptimes as the leaders.

In Ama you have dean wilson coming i 3rd place. No offense to dean (i love dean), but he is nowhere near the speed of Febvre, van hoorebek etc who are barely making top 8 in some motos in mxgp.

As someone said, it feels like the US series is in a transition year/years. Alot of fast guys has retired. But there is ALOT of talent in the 250 class and once they move up the 450 class will become alot deeper. Like the GPs are now.

Just my opinion after following both series.
robkinuk
Posts
4279
Joined
5/16/2007
Location
Ashbourne, GB
7/31/2017 4:16am
Sideways wrote:
Musquin and tomac would be right in the mix with the top at mxgp. A healthy bagget and andersson could have something. But otherwise, the field...
Musquin and tomac would be right in the mix with the top at mxgp. A healthy bagget and andersson could have something.

But otherwise, the field in mxgp is imo MUCH deeper this year than AMA. You can have Febvre in 9th place in a moto and not moving forward and he is still putting on close to the same laptimes as the leaders.

In Ama you have dean wilson coming i 3rd place. No offense to dean (i love dean), but he is nowhere near the speed of Febvre, van hoorebek etc who are barely making top 8 in some motos in mxgp.

As someone said, it feels like the US series is in a transition year/years. Alot of fast guys has retired. But there is ALOT of talent in the 250 class and once they move up the 450 class will become alot deeper. Like the GPs are now.

Just my opinion after following both series.
Agree in 2017 being a transition year for 450 class. Looking at 10th through 20th at Washougal you could hardly claim any of the riders are household names?
Really sad that Eli Tomac is ducking out of MXDN duty again, when a win at Matterley could so much enhance his reputation and career! Perhaps he's a realist who couldn't take another defeat?
JustMX
Posts
5285
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
7/31/2017 5:37am
Sideways wrote:
Musquin and tomac would be right in the mix with the top at mxgp. A healthy bagget and andersson could have something. But otherwise, the field...
Musquin and tomac would be right in the mix with the top at mxgp. A healthy bagget and andersson could have something.

But otherwise, the field in mxgp is imo MUCH deeper this year than AMA. You can have Febvre in 9th place in a moto and not moving forward and he is still putting on close to the same laptimes as the leaders.

In Ama you have dean wilson coming i 3rd place. No offense to dean (i love dean), but he is nowhere near the speed of Febvre, van hoorebek etc who are barely making top 8 in some motos in mxgp.

As someone said, it feels like the US series is in a transition year/years. Alot of fast guys has retired. But there is ALOT of talent in the 250 class and once they move up the 450 class will become alot deeper. Like the GPs are now.

Just my opinion after following both series.
robkinuk wrote:
Agree in 2017 being a transition year for 450 class. Looking at 10th through 20th at Washougal you could hardly claim any of the riders are...
Agree in 2017 being a transition year for 450 class. Looking at 10th through 20th at Washougal you could hardly claim any of the riders are household names?
Really sad that Eli Tomac is ducking out of MXDN duty again, when a win at Matterley could so much enhance his reputation and career! Perhaps he's a realist who couldn't take another defeat?
Perhaps he has been working hard to win titles and has less interest in traveling to a foreign country for a race that only truly benefits the promoter.

When the American promoter of perhaps the largest mx event in American history loses money doing it there is something seriously wrong with the event.

US riders going to race the a gp type event is comparable to gp riders coming to race the monster energy cup.

A completely different track type, format, and set up then what they are familiar with.

Send us your best and let's compare them after they try their hands in vegas.





Xavier
Posts
619
Joined
7/7/2008
Location
Hossegor, FR
7/31/2017 5:51am
Sideways wrote:
Musquin and tomac would be right in the mix with the top at mxgp. A healthy bagget and andersson could have something. But otherwise, the field...
Musquin and tomac would be right in the mix with the top at mxgp. A healthy bagget and andersson could have something.

But otherwise, the field in mxgp is imo MUCH deeper this year than AMA. You can have Febvre in 9th place in a moto and not moving forward and he is still putting on close to the same laptimes as the leaders.

In Ama you have dean wilson coming i 3rd place. No offense to dean (i love dean), but he is nowhere near the speed of Febvre, van hoorebek etc who are barely making top 8 in some motos in mxgp.

As someone said, it feels like the US series is in a transition year/years. Alot of fast guys has retired. But there is ALOT of talent in the 250 class and once they move up the 450 class will become alot deeper. Like the GPs are now.

Just my opinion after following both series.
robkinuk wrote:
Agree in 2017 being a transition year for 450 class. Looking at 10th through 20th at Washougal you could hardly claim any of the riders are...
Agree in 2017 being a transition year for 450 class. Looking at 10th through 20th at Washougal you could hardly claim any of the riders are household names?
Really sad that Eli Tomac is ducking out of MXDN duty again, when a win at Matterley could so much enhance his reputation and career! Perhaps he's a realist who couldn't take another defeat?
JustMX wrote:
Perhaps he has been working hard to win titles and has less interest in traveling to a foreign country for a race that only truly benefits...
Perhaps he has been working hard to win titles and has less interest in traveling to a foreign country for a race that only truly benefits the promoter.

When the American promoter of perhaps the largest mx event in American history loses money doing it there is something seriously wrong with the event.

US riders going to race the a gp type event is comparable to gp riders coming to race the monster energy cup.

A completely different track type, format, and set up then what they are familiar with.

Send us your best and let's compare them after they try their hands in vegas.





@your last sentence : it's done, we sent Roczen and Musquin, who actually did or are doing not too bad.
Acidreamer
Posts
1793
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Mansfield, OH, USA
7/31/2017 6:09am
Ama has harder competition. Period. Throw cairoli or herlings into sx and they wont do well. Throw them into mx and they get beat by tomac and bagget. Lose lose.
7/31/2017 6:14am
Acidreamer wrote:
Ama has harder competition. Period. Throw cairoli or herlings into sx and they wont do well. Throw them into mx and they get beat by tomac...
Ama has harder competition. Period. Throw cairoli or herlings into sx and they wont do well. Throw them into mx and they get beat by tomac and bagget. Lose lose.
You definitely acid dream...
Tzevtkoff
Posts
123
Joined
4/23/2017
Location
BE
7/31/2017 6:25am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2017 6:30am
tempura wrote:
Outdoors, on average, the GP riders are better. Their tracks are rough and more technical, and thus their skills at racing varied tracks are greater. In...
Outdoors, on average, the GP riders are better. Their tracks are rough and more technical, and thus their skills at racing varied tracks are greater.

In the US, the riders put a lot of focus on the indoor clown show because that's where the money is for them.

LOLOLOLOL

US tracks are so much rough and technical than de MXGP tracks.

Musquin end Tomac beat all MXGP pack, no discussion except for the Euros retards dreamers.

Anderson last year was better than Herlings, no discussion (with a huge crash a couple weeks before so not in shape)

Top US riders are better because SUPERCROSS skills, intensity ect. so more complete.

The average level euro pack are better yes but not the best in skills, speed, shape or whatever.

Looks ET last year at Glen Helen on the finish line against Cairoli, it was like kid vs man lol.

7/31/2017 6:32am
I don't understand why some of you guys just can't admit that GP and AMA top riders are all good. Any of them are capable of beating one another on any given day and track. It is really not that hard to figure out.

This has been argued to death here at Vital, and these threads should go immediately to the Dumbgeon, and morans starting them should be given a lengthy time-out.
7/31/2017 6:38am
tempura wrote:
Outdoors, on average, the GP riders are better. Their tracks are rough and more technical, and thus their skills at racing varied tracks are greater. In...
Outdoors, on average, the GP riders are better. Their tracks are rough and more technical, and thus their skills at racing varied tracks are greater.

In the US, the riders put a lot of focus on the indoor clown show because that's where the money is for them.

Tzevtkoff wrote:
LOLOLOLOL US tracks are so much rough and technical than de MXGP tracks. Musquin end Tomac beat all MXGP pack, no discussion except for the Euros...
LOLOLOLOL

US tracks are so much rough and technical than de MXGP tracks.

Musquin end Tomac beat all MXGP pack, no discussion except for the Euros retards dreamers.

Anderson last year was better than Herlings, no discussion (with a huge crash a couple weeks before so not in shape)

Top US riders are better because SUPERCROSS skills, intensity ect. so more complete.

The average level euro pack are better yes but not the best in skills, speed, shape or whatever.

Looks ET last year at Glen Helen on the finish line against Cairoli, it was like kid vs man lol.

Yes, sure. The level of your wording, including the use of the word "retards", depicts the depth of your analysis.
Oh, by the way do you remember also the face of James Stewart in 2006, Villopoto in 2006, Tedesco and Dungey in 2009, the US team in 2012, Tomac in 2013 and many many more? The opposite was in 2007, 2010, where Dungey and Villo smashed the competition.

Oh, and surely Anderson was faster then a guy he did not race against :D

Read the words of Chris Purcel and think about them.
cappelmans
Posts
467
Joined
11/14/2011
Location
Eindhoven, NL
7/31/2017 6:53am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2017 6:54am
MXGP is a lot more competitive at the moment. Not much depth in AMA Nationals currently with a lot of riders hurt or opting out on outdoors. I feel that only Tomac and Marvin have world class elite speed and fitness in outdoors.
Tzevtkoff
Posts
123
Joined
4/23/2017
Location
BE
7/31/2017 6:53am
tommyjif wrote:
Yes, sure. The level of your wording, including the use of the word "retards", depicts the depth of your analysis. Oh, by the way do you...
Yes, sure. The level of your wording, including the use of the word "retards", depicts the depth of your analysis.
Oh, by the way do you remember also the face of James Stewart in 2006, Villopoto in 2006, Tedesco and Dungey in 2009, the US team in 2012, Tomac in 2013 and many many more? The opposite was in 2007, 2010, where Dungey and Villo smashed the competition.

Oh, and surely Anderson was faster then a guy he did not race against :D

Read the words of Chris Purcel and think about them.
Come on sensitive italian pussy this is a just a word and i say what I want. Understood Staline or Benito ?

"James Stewart in 2006"

We're talking about now and u remenber the face of Everts at Zolder MXDN ? Everts still my favorite rider all time but RC still also the GOAT.

Yes the best rider all of time come from America sry dude.

"Tomac in 2013 and many many more? "

Yeah i remenber, 2sec lap more faster than everyone with 2 crash at the start with a commentator who said "waouh" every 2 seconds when he looking his beast mode ride.

"Oh, and surely Anderson was faster then a guy he did not race against :D

Pathetic.





Motofinne
Posts
11530
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
FI
7/31/2017 6:58am
I don't understand why some of you guys just can't admit that GP and AMA top riders are all good. Any of them are capable of...
I don't understand why some of you guys just can't admit that GP and AMA top riders are all good. Any of them are capable of beating one another on any given day and track. It is really not that hard to figure out.

This has been argued to death here at Vital, and these threads should go immediately to the Dumbgeon, and morans starting them should be given a lengthy time-out.
This. I can't understand how these useless threads are kept alive.

These threads are heaven for the trolls from both sides of the ponds.
7/31/2017 7:03am
Tzevtkoff wrote:
Come on sensitive italian pussy this is a just a word and i say what I want. Understood Staline or Benito ? "James Stewart in 2006"...
Come on sensitive italian pussy this is a just a word and i say what I want. Understood Staline or Benito ?

"James Stewart in 2006"

We're talking about now and u remenber the face of Everts at Zolder MXDN ? Everts still my favorite rider all time but RC still also the GOAT.

Yes the best rider all of time come from America sry dude.

"Tomac in 2013 and many many more? "

Yeah i remenber, 2sec lap more faster than everyone with 2 crash at the start with a commentator who said "waouh" every 2 seconds when he looking his beast mode ride.

"Oh, and surely Anderson was faster then a guy he did not race against :D

Pathetic.





get another bottle of Vodka , and we might understand what you try to explain ....
Tzevtkoff
Posts
123
Joined
4/23/2017
Location
BE
7/31/2017 7:06am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2017 7:07am
get another bottle of Vodka , and we might understand what you try to explain ....
FU u understand ?
7/31/2017 7:08am
kkawboy14 wrote:
SX or MX?

Moose can just beat the best here 4 motos in a row........
Moose also got smoked earlier in the season multiple times. And Anderson smoked the field last year in his MXoN race in the GP's backyard. Both classes have talented fast riders. In my mind, the speed and talent is equal. You just have different circumstances that impact individual race outcomes and venues.

Post a reply to: GP vs AMA

The Latest