GP vs AMA

Titan1
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Titan1 7/31/2017 4:39pm
7/31/2017 4:39pm Edited Date/Time 7/31/2017 6:24pm
Have the GP's really closed the gap on the AMA riders (let alone exceeded it)...or did a gap ever exist in the first place? Or is this conclusion simply drawn based on the results of the past few MXdN's and the fact that there are more guys battling for wins in MXGP, and the MXGP guys APPEAR to be "battling" harder for position? Or that they appear to be going faster than the nationals?

The MXdN is a team event...luck plays a much larger roll in that event than in a regular race. Now many years did a crash or mechanical cost USA the victories? How many of USA's victories were because of a crash/mechanical from one of the other countries? My only point is that its impossible to compare the two series based on the MXdN...

More guys battling for wins doesn't mean anything either...when I race my buddies...we battle HARD! Banging each other, passing each other, etc. etc. It's great racing...but it doesn't mean we are going fast. So a lot of guys battling for wins doesn't mean the competition is stacked...it just means there are a lot of guys going about the same speed (even if that speed is slow, like me and my buddies).

My buddies and me race each other hard too...and I've seen guys battle each other hard (lots of passes, bouncing off each other, etc.) in the D class...they aren't all that great of riders, and they certainly aren't going fast...So "hard" racing doesn't mean better riders or more depth.

And people say that the GP riders look like they are going faster on TV or even in person...this argument is worthless because they aren't on the track at the same time. And its all a matter of perception.

So I guess, I'm not convinced that the GP's have closed the gap on the AMA series (if there was ever even a gap to begin with-in modern times at least) and I think a lot of the arguments that support that don't hold any water. Maybe they have...I don't know...but the only true way to tell would be to have multiple rounds of each series over lap, on different types of tracks, and see who comes out on top.

I'm not making an argument one way or the other...just asking the question.

I will say this though...MXGP is a lot more fun to watch this summer than the 450 nationals...and the 250 nationals are more fun to watch than MX2.
struth
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struth 7/31/2017 4:47pm
7/31/2017 4:47pm
Mxgp mx2 rookies ,Prad0,Olsen, Lawrence, all 3 have potential to be faster the Jonas.
Depth in mx2 is fine
bsharkey
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bsharkey 7/31/2017 5:13pm
7/31/2017 5:13pm
how fast everyone forgets how tomac destroyed everyone after his crash a few years back at the mxon
1st Amendment 7/31/2017 5:29pm
7/31/2017 5:29pm
1st Amendment wrote:
The GP guys ride motocross 12 months a year. Our guys ride MX about what 4-5 months a year?
TXDirt wrote:
It's been that way for like 30 years. That's not a recent development. The GP guys have closed the gap. That's just a fact.
Pretty easy for them to close the gap when SX is more important than outdoors stateside right?

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Swann
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Swann 7/31/2017 5:36pm
7/31/2017 5:36pm
TXDirt wrote:
It's been that way for like 30 years. That's not a recent development. The GP guys have closed the gap. That's just a fact.
Can we all just agree that GP pros and American pros are on equal footing when it comes to skill and speed and the whole championship winning enchilada thing? Can we? Please?
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/31/2017 6:10pm
7/31/2017 6:10pm
TXDirt wrote:
It's been that way for like 30 years. That's not a recent development. The GP guys have closed the gap. That's just a fact.
Swann wrote:
Can we all just agree that GP pros and American pros are on equal footing when it comes to skill and speed and the whole championship...
Can we all just agree that GP pros and American pros are on equal footing when it comes to skill and speed and the whole championship winning enchilada thing? Can we? Please?
That's what I have been saying. The top MXGP guys are just as good as the AMA riders. Really talking the top 3-5 each class.

I'm a fan of great riders racing on tough tracks. So no complaints here. Nothing but appreciation.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/31/2017 6:18pm
7/31/2017 6:18pm
1st Amendment wrote:
The GP guys ride motocross 12 months a year. Our guys ride MX about what 4-5 months a year?
TXDirt wrote:
It's been that way for like 30 years. That's not a recent development. The GP guys have closed the gap. That's just a fact.
1st Amendment wrote:
Pretty easy for them to close the gap when SX is more important than outdoors stateside right?
They have always had a fast rider or two. But now they have 4 or 5 guys who can twist the throttle with the best of them. What does SX have to do with that? If anything, SX has given our guys an advantage. Some of the techniques used today were forged on a SX track.
TbonesPop
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TbonesPop 7/31/2017 7:15pm
7/31/2017 7:15pm
TbonesPop wrote:
Moose also got smoked earlier in the season multiple times. And Anderson smoked the field last year in his MXoN race in the GP's backyard. Both...
Moose also got smoked earlier in the season multiple times. And Anderson smoked the field last year in his MXoN race in the GP's backyard. Both classes have talented fast riders. In my mind, the speed and talent is equal. You just have different circumstances that impact individual race outcomes and venues.
Sideways wrote:
you guys just remember what you want to remember. First of all, it was not all the GP riders.. Jason andersson rode the open class. Cairoli...
you guys just remember what you want to remember.
First of all, it was not all the GP riders.. Jason andersson rode the open class. Cairoli, Febvre and lots of the other fast riders rode in the mxgp class. Who jason never got to race because of the incident.
2nd, herlings was clearly faster than Jason, catching him and going down when trying to make a pass. Which was also his first time racing a 450.

Just stating facts that that alot of you seems to forget.
The rider that wins the damn race is the fastest for that race. Everybody lined up on the gate and started at the same time and raced under the same conditions. Whoever came in first was the fastest that race. They don't hand out trophies for the fastest lap times or top speeds. Crashing from riding over your head counts in racing. One could easily surmise that Anderson was just managing the race lead and conserving energy when Herlings was trying to catch up to him. Happens all the time. Bottom line, Anderson spanked the field that race. Herlings is plenty fast and on a different day in different circumstances he could have just as easily won. But that day, he didn't Anderson did. THAT I remember.
Mike_Frisk 8/1/2017 12:12am
8/1/2017 12:12am
ButteryWaffles wrote:
I'm starting to become a firm believer that the GP riders are much more talented and faster than our guys state side. Ferrandis came right over...
I'm starting to become a firm believer that the GP riders are much more talented and faster than our guys state side. Ferrandis came right over and has been battling up front, they smoked RV, the fastest guy we've had in years and they've been whooping our ass at MXDN. I feel like if they sent over their top 5 riders, Tomac may finish off the podium. Am I the only one thinking this?
Mit12 wrote:
If memory serves me correct a burnt out RV that did not want to race anymore won a GP in the premier class. The facts are...
If memory serves me correct a burnt out RV that did not want to race anymore won a GP in the premier class.

The facts are, the top guys from both sides of the pond can be competative in either MX series.
A burned out RV also won the supercross title.
Mike_Frisk 8/1/2017 12:17am
8/1/2017 12:17am
I don't think you can compare the two series, the riders are most likely equally talented. Got to give credit to the GP riders that travels the globs and see different conditions and cultures each and every race. I wish everyone could ride the same world series (maybe both SX and MX) similar to Moto GP, that would be epic racing and would take the sport to a new level.
Finnish_Flash_62 8/1/2017 1:49am
8/1/2017 1:49am
Harry Backmon wrote:
I don't understand why some of you guys just can't admit that GP and AMA top riders are all good. Any of them are capable of...
I don't understand why some of you guys just can't admit that GP and AMA top riders are all good. Any of them are capable of beating one another on any given day and track. It is really not that hard to figure out.

This has been argued to death here at Vital, and these threads should go immediately to the Dumbgeon, and morans starting them should be given a lengthy time-out.
I support this idea.
1st Amendment 8/1/2017 2:18am
8/1/2017 2:18am Edited Date/Time 8/1/2017 2:18am
TXDirt wrote:
It's been that way for like 30 years. That's not a recent development. The GP guys have closed the gap. That's just a fact.
1st Amendment wrote:
Pretty easy for them to close the gap when SX is more important than outdoors stateside right?
TXDirt wrote:
They have always had a fast rider or two. But now they have 4 or 5 guys who can twist the throttle with the best of...
They have always had a fast rider or two. But now they have 4 or 5 guys who can twist the throttle with the best of them. What does SX have to do with that? If anything, SX has given our guys an advantage. Some of the techniques used today were forged on a SX track.
Riding SX for 7-8 months out of the year is not helping our cause along with the schedule and I don't care how you wanna spin it
Sideways
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Sideways 8/1/2017 5:18am
8/1/2017 5:18am
Its funny its only we fans that argue about this lol. The riders from the different series has big respect for eachother.

I remember Herlings saying how good of a rider Tomac is and also complimenting Webb on the 250. Cairoli has mentioned several times how fast the Americans are.

I also remember Adam Cianciarulo, Ryan Dungey, Tomac, webb etc complimenting Herlings, ac222 and Febvre.
roundtheoutside 8/1/2017 5:37am
8/1/2017 5:37am
Sideways wrote:
Its funny its only we fans that argue about this lol. The riders from the different series has big respect for eachother. I remember Herlings saying...
Its funny its only we fans that argue about this lol. The riders from the different series has big respect for eachother.

I remember Herlings saying how good of a rider Tomac is and also complimenting Webb on the 250. Cairoli has mentioned several times how fast the Americans are.

I also remember Adam Cianciarulo, Ryan Dungey, Tomac, webb etc complimenting Herlings, ac222 and Febvre.
I remember Dungey saying that the competition in america is higher and tougher. That it is not even racing in the GPs in his eyes and that the tracks doesn't even look like racetracks.
4rings
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4rings 8/1/2017 5:43am
8/1/2017 5:43am
haven't gone through this thread but the GP tracks are pretty sweet. Idk who's decision, maybe the AMA, is basically turning all the tracks into SX tracks... grip it and rip it, anyone can race fast.They groom the tracks way too often. make MX great again
shaffstall721 8/1/2017 6:11am
8/1/2017 6:11am
4rings wrote:
haven't gone through this thread but the GP tracks are pretty sweet. Idk who's decision, maybe the AMA, is basically turning all the tracks into SX...
haven't gone through this thread but the GP tracks are pretty sweet. Idk who's decision, maybe the AMA, is basically turning all the tracks into SX tracks... grip it and rip it, anyone can race fast.They groom the tracks way too often. make MX great again
I disagree on the second part of your statement.

The last few years it seems like the AMA tracks are absolutely brutal for the most part, ripping it too deep in the beginning and leaving it all day. It turns into RUTOCROSS. The racing was better when they prepped between motos instead of it being like slot car racing.

Some of the tracks are still prepped correct and dont get too rutted. Washougal was good, so was Red Bud and Glen Helen. I couldnt stand watching hangtown or lakewood.

This is all my opinion!!!

Oh and MXGP definitely has better racing right now. It's fun to watch.

4rings
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4rings 8/1/2017 6:29am
8/1/2017 6:29am
True true^^ I guess my comment isn't so much towards track prep, but the tracks themselves. I remember that joke of a place in Utah, cool facility, but it was a wide open highway. I look forward to the natural and gnarly layout of Unadilla.

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