CTE in 99% of former NFL players, 87% at all levels. MX ?%

TbonesPop 7/26/2017 8:16pm
7/26/2017 8:16pm
sickboy3636 wrote:
I got a great respect for rugby and played for a short time after playing ball. As you said, the helmet is utilized as a weapon...
I got a great respect for rugby and played for a short time after playing ball. As you said, the helmet is utilized as a weapon. You can try to teach all you want......but the majority of players know that using the driving force of the helmet is an advantage and they utilize it....esp in the trenches. Theres def a roughness to rugby that you don't get in football.......but the blunt forces are increased in football due to nature of the game. Now with all that said, as soft as football has gotten in these last 10 years, I have more respect for rugby players. The truth is.......its the nature of the sports we play. No matter how much information I would have had at 18.....I still would have tried to break my facemask on every hit, and would have gotten on my dirt bike and raced like a bat outta hell. We live longer and wanna be protected from everything now......a great portion of my life memories were made skating that edge of out of control. Maybe my eyes will be crossed and I'll be twitching uncontrollably by 45.......but I still would run the same gauntlet through life if I could do it over again.
I hear ya and agree. Of note, I'll be 47 later this year and I'm doing just fine (no twitches at all) :-)
Camduhman212
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Camduhman212 7/27/2017 8:31am
7/27/2017 8:31am
Is anyone else extremely concerned about TP199?
I mean years before all the CTE stuff really started coming out there was already concern about the long term damage?
He must be over 40+ knockouts.

JS7 as well, it seems like watching a compilation of his crashes he had a knack for breaking his fall with his head and going limp for at least a second or two afterwards. Is there anyone here with medical or psychology knowledge that would know if there was a correlation between JS7's Adderall and concussions?

I'm worried about those 2 in the coming 5-15 years.
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KAWI642 7/27/2017 8:33am
7/27/2017 8:33am
Camduhman212 wrote:
Is anyone else extremely concerned about TP199? I mean years before all the CTE stuff really started coming out there was already concern about the long...
Is anyone else extremely concerned about TP199?
I mean years before all the CTE stuff really started coming out there was already concern about the long term damage?
He must be over 40+ knockouts.

JS7 as well, it seems like watching a compilation of his crashes he had a knack for breaking his fall with his head and going limp for at least a second or two afterwards. Is there anyone here with medical or psychology knowledge that would know if there was a correlation between JS7's Adderall and concussions?

I'm worried about those 2 in the coming 5-15 years.
Yes no doubt. Him and anyone who has suffered multiple concussions including myself
Mr. Washougal 7/27/2017 8:48am
7/27/2017 8:48am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2017 8:53am
KAWI642 wrote:
Yes no doubt. Him and anyone who has suffered multiple concussions including myself
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category of Pastrana or any other serious CTE candidate.

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visser62
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visser62 7/27/2017 8:50am
7/27/2017 8:50am
KAWI642 wrote:
Yes no doubt. Him and anyone who has suffered multiple concussions including myself
Mr. Washougal wrote:
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category...
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category of Pastrana or any other serious CTE candidate.
Did you make an account just to say that?
Mr. Washougal 7/27/2017 8:53am
7/27/2017 8:53am
KAWI642 wrote:
Yes no doubt. Him and anyone who has suffered multiple concussions including myself
Mr. Washougal wrote:
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category...
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category of Pastrana or any other serious CTE candidate.
visser62 wrote:
Did you make an account just to say that?
No, I made an account to join in on the Washougal threads.
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KAWI642 7/27/2017 9:06am
7/27/2017 9:06am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2017 9:06am
KAWI642 wrote:
Yes no doubt. Him and anyone who has suffered multiple concussions including myself
Mr. Washougal wrote:
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category...
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category of Pastrana or any other serious CTE candidate.
a hit is hit regardless of the level. I coached my son in 8th grade ball a few years ago and I was absolutely astounded at how hard those kids hit each other.... brutal I do hope you are right!!
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TXDirt 7/27/2017 9:11am
7/27/2017 9:11am
KAWI642 wrote:
Yes no doubt. Him and anyone who has suffered multiple concussions including myself
Mr. Washougal wrote:
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category...
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category of Pastrana or any other serious CTE candidate.
KAWI642 wrote:
a hit is hit regardless of the level. I coached my son in 8th grade ball a few years ago and I was absolutely astounded at...
a hit is hit regardless of the level. I coached my son in 8th grade ball a few years ago and I was absolutely astounded at how hard those kids hit each other.... brutal I do hope you are right!!
I agree. A hit is a hit. Does not matter the age or sport.

I go to a few local high school football games and I'm able to be at field level with the action literally about 20 feet from me. The hits are brutal. Just play to play. Was really quite astounding. You could literally feel the hits. And these were high school kids.
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KAWI642 7/27/2017 9:22am
7/27/2017 9:22am
Mr. Washougal wrote:
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category...
Bro, you playing a couple years of hump the football at the 1A level and racing the local moto scene doesn't put you in the category of Pastrana or any other serious CTE candidate.
KAWI642 wrote:
a hit is hit regardless of the level. I coached my son in 8th grade ball a few years ago and I was absolutely astounded at...
a hit is hit regardless of the level. I coached my son in 8th grade ball a few years ago and I was absolutely astounded at how hard those kids hit each other.... brutal I do hope you are right!!
TXDirt wrote:
I agree. A hit is a hit. Does not matter the age or sport. I go to a few local high school football games and I'm...
I agree. A hit is a hit. Does not matter the age or sport.

I go to a few local high school football games and I'm able to be at field level with the action literally about 20 feet from me. The hits are brutal. Just play to play. Was really quite astounding. You could literally feel the hits. And these were high school kids.
I played from 5th grade to 12. that's 7 years... I never came off the field either offense / defense special teams. Some of the hardest hits were on kick off
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90smoto 7/27/2017 10:51am
7/27/2017 10:51am
Concussions are scary! As with many racers ive broken my share of bones and hit my head a few too many times probably. The bones are no big deal to me but I am concerned what the long term affects of some dirt naps can do to you. I had one crash in particular, tangled bars going for the holeshot in a high speed first turn. Instant head slap. When i came too I was sitting up with medics and track crew around me asking questions.... I was trying to answer but I couldn't, the wires just weren't connecting to figure anything out. Scared the shit of me to feel like that
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Motoxdoc 7/27/2017 11:17am
7/27/2017 11:17am
kzizok wrote:
https://www.betitbest.com/sportsnews/de/news/study-cte-diagnosed-in-99-…

That is a real problem. Which leads me to MX. It probably is more of an issue than is given credit to.
Concussions are definitely more of an issue than most people understand, however, I don't think you can equate football to MX. Footballer's hit their heads dozens if not more times per game....then you got practices during the week. Hell. some of those guys are TRYING to hit the other guys head....with their own head! I remember when I played JAA football in junior high, the more scraped and smashed up your helmet was the cooler you were. Sure you've got the Zack Bell's and Travis Pastrana's who've hit their head more than most...and yes they have a high(er) probability of having CTE, but that's an aberration, not the norm. BTW, the rate of CTE in footballer's is HIGHER than 99%.....110 out of 111. Those kind of stats might be seen in boxers, MMA fighters and rugby players....but I doubt it's the same for MX'ers.
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TXDirt 7/27/2017 11:26am
7/27/2017 11:26am
kzizok wrote:
https://www.betitbest.com/sportsnews/de/news/study-cte-diagnosed-in-99-…

That is a real problem. Which leads me to MX. It probably is more of an issue than is given credit to.
Motoxdoc wrote:
Concussions are definitely more of an issue than most people understand, however, I don't think you can equate football to MX. Footballer's hit their heads dozens...
Concussions are definitely more of an issue than most people understand, however, I don't think you can equate football to MX. Footballer's hit their heads dozens if not more times per game....then you got practices during the week. Hell. some of those guys are TRYING to hit the other guys head....with their own head! I remember when I played JAA football in junior high, the more scraped and smashed up your helmet was the cooler you were. Sure you've got the Zack Bell's and Travis Pastrana's who've hit their head more than most...and yes they have a high(er) probability of having CTE, but that's an aberration, not the norm. BTW, the rate of CTE in footballer's is HIGHER than 99%.....110 out of 111. Those kind of stats might be seen in boxers, MMA fighters and rugby players....but I doubt it's the same for MX'ers.
We will not know the effects of MX until retired racers donate their brain to be studied. An "aberration and not the norm" is entirely subjective until we start having retired racers and riders donate their brain to be studied. Only then can we start to understand the effects of our sport.

http://www.bu.edu/cte/brain-donation-registry/

I think it's far better to try and find out more information and do research rather then being dismissive when it comes to CTE. Not saying that's what you are doing, but you are already convinced it's an aberration and not the norm and you might just be surprised if we actually could get some guys to donate and have research performed.

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Camduhman212 7/27/2017 11:29am
7/27/2017 11:29am Edited Date/Time 7/27/2017 11:29am
kzizok wrote:
https://www.betitbest.com/sportsnews/de/news/study-cte-diagnosed-in-99-…

That is a real problem. Which leads me to MX. It probably is more of an issue than is given credit to.
Motoxdoc wrote:
Concussions are definitely more of an issue than most people understand, however, I don't think you can equate football to MX. Footballer's hit their heads dozens...
Concussions are definitely more of an issue than most people understand, however, I don't think you can equate football to MX. Footballer's hit their heads dozens if not more times per game....then you got practices during the week. Hell. some of those guys are TRYING to hit the other guys head....with their own head! I remember when I played JAA football in junior high, the more scraped and smashed up your helmet was the cooler you were. Sure you've got the Zack Bell's and Travis Pastrana's who've hit their head more than most...and yes they have a high(er) probability of having CTE, but that's an aberration, not the norm. BTW, the rate of CTE in footballer's is HIGHER than 99%.....110 out of 111. Those kind of stats might be seen in boxers, MMA fighters and rugby players....but I doubt it's the same for MX'ers.
Yeah, I would say football players have it worse, I do think that TP and JS have hit their head hard enough, enough times to have long term effects. There's probably 10 minutes of TP footage you can cut into KO after KO. And those are just the recorded hits, not all the practice knockouts he has to have had.

https://youtu.be/C-bo-STl2ho
2thefront
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2thefront 7/27/2017 12:52pm
7/27/2017 12:52pm
Michael Scott wrote:
What do you guys think long term symptoms are for someone who has had say 10 concussions? I think that may be more realistic for the...
What do you guys think long term symptoms are for someone who has had say 10 concussions? I think that may be more realistic for the average moto person or someone who has just been active growing up like myself snowboarding, skateboarding, moto, bikes... I had several concussions even before my first broken bone
Gravel wrote:
This question brings it home for me. I'd think a lot of average joe racers would like to know the answer to this...
I would think 10 would pretty much guarantee you're going to have noticeable effects.
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Camduhman212 7/27/2017 1:01pm
7/27/2017 1:01pm
Michael Scott wrote:
What do you guys think long term symptoms are for someone who has had say 10 concussions? I think that may be more realistic for the...
What do you guys think long term symptoms are for someone who has had say 10 concussions? I think that may be more realistic for the average moto person or someone who has just been active growing up like myself snowboarding, skateboarding, moto, bikes... I had several concussions even before my first broken bone
Gravel wrote:
This question brings it home for me. I'd think a lot of average joe racers would like to know the answer to this...
2thefront wrote:
I would think 10 would pretty much guarantee you're going to have noticeable effects.
I would say BMX, MX, and Football, and random falls I have had 15-20 concussions. Over 25 years, I don't think 1 concussion a year would put me at risk for as a serious CTE candidate down the line. I think were good man. And I think the hits we took were nothing compared to even TP's lighter hits. Just saying.
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Camduhman212 7/27/2017 2:58pm
7/27/2017 2:58pm
http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/29/sports/la-sp-x-games-head-injuries-20120630

Travis Pastrana, who'll compete in the RallyCross race this Sunday at the X Games in Los Angeles, doesn't just know about concussions because of his uncle. Travis estimates that he's suffered more than 50 concussions in his own action sports career.

"I've had concussions literally on a weekly basis," he says, "and I'm still as normal as possible."


Jesus. Christ.
smoothies862 7/27/2017 3:17pm
7/27/2017 3:17pm
GuyB wrote:
Well, to find out we'll need some MXers to donate their brains.
did you say trains?
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2thefront 7/27/2017 3:29pm
7/27/2017 3:29pm
Gravel wrote:
This question brings it home for me. I'd think a lot of average joe racers would like to know the answer to this...
2thefront wrote:
I would think 10 would pretty much guarantee you're going to have noticeable effects.
Camduhman212 wrote:
I would say BMX, MX, and Football, and random falls I have had 15-20 concussions. Over 25 years, I don't think 1 concussion a year would...
I would say BMX, MX, and Football, and random falls I have had 15-20 concussions. Over 25 years, I don't think 1 concussion a year would put me at risk for as a serious CTE candidate down the line. I think were good man. And I think the hits we took were nothing compared to even TP's lighter hits. Just saying.
I don't think it's as easy as just assigning a certain number threshold to it. I believe a big part of it is how severe are the concussions and what kind of healing was there between them.

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TXDirt 7/27/2017 9:48pm
7/27/2017 9:48pm
2thefront wrote:
I would think 10 would pretty much guarantee you're going to have noticeable effects.
Camduhman212 wrote:
I would say BMX, MX, and Football, and random falls I have had 15-20 concussions. Over 25 years, I don't think 1 concussion a year would...
I would say BMX, MX, and Football, and random falls I have had 15-20 concussions. Over 25 years, I don't think 1 concussion a year would put me at risk for as a serious CTE candidate down the line. I think were good man. And I think the hits we took were nothing compared to even TP's lighter hits. Just saying.
2thefront wrote:
I don't think it's as easy as just assigning a certain number threshold to it. I believe a big part of it is how severe are...
I don't think it's as easy as just assigning a certain number threshold to it. I believe a big part of it is how severe are the concussions and what kind of healing was there between them.
This is where obviously mx'ers are totally ignorant and we clearly need some education.

It has nothing to do with number of concussions. It has to do with smacking your head. That may or may not result in a concussion.

If you have had 10 concussions you have probably smacked your head over 50-100 times.

Dave Mira had CTE and spent most of his career on a BMX bike. Probably a good probability that mx'ers who have spent a significant amount of time racing might suffer from similar repeated blows to the head.
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Camduhman212 7/28/2017 6:16am
7/28/2017 6:16am
Camduhman212 wrote:
I would say BMX, MX, and Football, and random falls I have had 15-20 concussions. Over 25 years, I don't think 1 concussion a year would...
I would say BMX, MX, and Football, and random falls I have had 15-20 concussions. Over 25 years, I don't think 1 concussion a year would put me at risk for as a serious CTE candidate down the line. I think were good man. And I think the hits we took were nothing compared to even TP's lighter hits. Just saying.
2thefront wrote:
I don't think it's as easy as just assigning a certain number threshold to it. I believe a big part of it is how severe are...
I don't think it's as easy as just assigning a certain number threshold to it. I believe a big part of it is how severe are the concussions and what kind of healing was there between them.
TXDirt wrote:
This is where obviously mx'ers are totally ignorant and we clearly need some education. It has nothing to do with number of concussions. It has to...
This is where obviously mx'ers are totally ignorant and we clearly need some education.

It has nothing to do with number of concussions. It has to do with smacking your head. That may or may not result in a concussion.

If you have had 10 concussions you have probably smacked your head over 50-100 times.

Dave Mira had CTE and spent most of his career on a BMX bike. Probably a good probability that mx'ers who have spent a significant amount of time racing might suffer from similar repeated blows to the head.
Yeah, this is true too.
I don't think we know shit and could use some real education honestly.
early
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early 7/28/2017 6:28am
7/28/2017 6:28am Edited Date/Time 7/28/2017 6:33am
Motoxdoc wrote:
Concussions are definitely more of an issue than most people understand, however, I don't think you can equate football to MX. Footballer's hit their heads dozens...
Concussions are definitely more of an issue than most people understand, however, I don't think you can equate football to MX. Footballer's hit their heads dozens if not more times per game....then you got practices during the week. Hell. some of those guys are TRYING to hit the other guys head....with their own head! I remember when I played JAA football in junior high, the more scraped and smashed up your helmet was the cooler you were. Sure you've got the Zack Bell's and Travis Pastrana's who've hit their head more than most...and yes they have a high(er) probability of having CTE, but that's an aberration, not the norm. BTW, the rate of CTE in footballer's is HIGHER than 99%.....110 out of 111. Those kind of stats might be seen in boxers, MMA fighters and rugby players....but I doubt it's the same for MX'ers.
That 110 out of 111 number is forbrains that were donated for research by the family which may have been persuaded by the deceased having problems so the ratio may be a bit high. Personally i dont think its too far off. Having only played 3 years of football I remember taking some brutal hits even at 14 years old.

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