Holy Sh*t - Not even a full gate for 250's

mb60 wrote:

So Izzy is signed up for the opener ?

neysbo wrote:

Yep , he is on the list, fresh out of jail and ready to race. Be interesting to see how he holds up

TJMX947 wrote:

Seriously? I mean the point of this entire thread is based on how American motocross is going down the drain...so I guess people aren't exactly disagreeing...

Seriously? I mean the point of this entire thread is based on how American motocross is going down the drain...so I guess people aren't exactly disagreeing with you. I don't understand your logic about how we're defending a circus or creating a circus?

The fact of the matter is it costs a lot of money to race motocross at the amateur level. Home schooling, training facilities, motor homes...2 or 3 mortgages on a house just to chase this dream...there are a lot of families that aren't cut out for it. I would say this is definitely approaching the "circus status" that you speak of.

I would disagree with your comment about talent crossing the pond to thrive in their careers. The people crossing to race GPs can't find a ride in the states...meaning they cross the pond to race against lesser competition as to keep their career alive...not thrive.

Your comment about the winning SX bike being European...wtf does that even mean? KTM is a big seller in America...maybe if they were a little cheaper and the goddamned things didn't rattle after 10 hours they would probably put the Japanese manufacturers out of business. I guess you condemn America for not producing our own motocross bike. Hopefully Alta takes off.

The MXGP series is not a great series. It cost like $1000 (I'm estimating - I have no idea how much in USD it costs) to race for NO PURSE whatsoever. There are definitely great to come out of the GPs but the series, especially outside of the European rounds, is a complete joke.

Eat a dick.

RG1 wrote:

I don't think there would be 40 riders on the gate for each European round if everyone still had to pay $1000 a race to enter...

I don't think there would be 40 riders on the gate for each European round if everyone still had to pay $1000 a race to enter.

There may be no purse money in GP's, but the teams are looked after, which means they can keep coming back each year and employing riders. Theres more small teams in the GP paddock now then I can remember for a long time for this reason. Some of the fly aways are still not good, but in Europe, they're really working

GreaseMeter wrote:

Shocker 'Underground' has disappeared

just James wrote:

Back to subject of lack of entries, I wonder if ending the idiotic stroke discrimination would help.

Underground wrote:

No I haven't. I just went to bed. As for you 2 pair of retards, you've totally missed the point that MX racing has become so...

No I haven't. I just went to bed. As for you 2 pair of retards, you've totally missed the point that MX racing has become so elite and expensive that there will be low numbers from here on in as the cost to be competative gets higher and higher. I'll admit I have no idea what karting costs but you said what would so I threw out something I thought may be cheaper due to fewer components required. I don't have race team balance sheets on me to compare so I can't give you a factual answer on that.

Facts. I'll give you an example fact. A custom set of gears costs $25,000 and they have more than one set of ratios. Do you need them? yes if you want to win.
Here's another. A set of cases lasts only 2 -3 rebuilds before a loss of 1/2 to 1 HP is seen due to slight deformation. 9RegSX + 12MX + 1MEC = 22 races / 2 = 11 sets of cases per rider. Do you need to change them that often. Depends how much HP you want to give up on a 250.
Frames. Depending on the rider and crashes you could be looking at LEAST 4 which can be cycled around to practice bikes from the 6 new bikes you started the season off with = $50,000
Kit suspension. Don't know current price but approx $10,000 x 2 sets per rider for servicing between rounds = $20,000 plus servicing costs and factory suspension tech costs during R&D and at the races = $30,000 - $40,000????
Racetech Ti bolt set = $4000 ea x 2 = $8000
Ti exhaust systems = $1200 + if you need custom tailered power at leat 5 sets = $6000
Race tires x 2 x 3 a round avg x 22 rounds = 176 = $20,000????
Custom pistons
Custom cams
Custom cylinder heads x a few trial and errors and those for SX or MX
High end valve trains and servicing of heads
Custom injectors and servicing
Programable ECU's
Gasket sets
Crankshafts
All the parts changed out each engine rebuild
Ceramic bearings
Throttle assemblies
cables
Handlebars, grips and levers
Carbon tanks
Wheel sets
Plastics for each round
Ultra light seats
Carbon fibre bits and pieces
O/sized brake kits
Triple clamps
Ti foot pegs
airfilters for the season
race fuel
Mechanic
Engine tech
Suspenion tech
R&D guy
trainer
massage therapist
personal yogi
Manager
Transporter and awning
tableclothes
posters and other PR
Tools and tool boxs
a mule
driver
Accomadation
fuel
race entries
practice track entries
a personal test track
food
coffee
blood doping
hookers and blo on the road

The point is, if you don't have this sort of set up and costs, your not even competing for a top ten anymore. The days of John Dowd beating the factory guys are long gone.

Flame away, take the piss, I don't really care cause I'll be out doing shit today with motorbikes, not my computer.
I'm going to take a nap now. Might order a pizza. Doesn't matter really
I'm guessing your going to start another account? greasemeter. otherwise known as a dipstick

Underground wrote:

No I haven't. I just went to bed. As for you 2 pair of retards, you've totally missed the point that MX racing has become so...

No I haven't. I just went to bed. As for you 2 pair of retards, you've totally missed the point that MX racing has become so elite and expensive that there will be low numbers from here on in as the cost to be competative gets higher and higher. I'll admit I have no idea what karting costs but you said what would so I threw out something I thought may be cheaper due to fewer components required. I don't have race team balance sheets on me to compare so I can't give you a factual answer on that.

Facts. I'll give you an example fact. A custom set of gears costs $25,000 and they have more than one set of ratios. Do you need them? yes if you want to win.
Here's another. A set of cases lasts only 2 -3 rebuilds before a loss of 1/2 to 1 HP is seen due to slight deformation. 9RegSX + 12MX + 1MEC = 22 races / 2 = 11 sets of cases per rider. Do you need to change them that often. Depends how much HP you want to give up on a 250.
Frames. Depending on the rider and crashes you could be looking at LEAST 4 which can be cycled around to practice bikes from the 6 new bikes you started the season off with = $50,000
Kit suspension. Don't know current price but approx $10,000 x 2 sets per rider for servicing between rounds = $20,000 plus servicing costs and factory suspension tech costs during R&D and at the races = $30,000 - $40,000????
Racetech Ti bolt set = $4000 ea x 2 = $8000
Ti exhaust systems = $1200 + if you need custom tailered power at leat 5 sets = $6000
Race tires x 2 x 3 a round avg x 22 rounds = 176 = $20,000????
Custom pistons
Custom cams
Custom cylinder heads x a few trial and errors and those for SX or MX
High end valve trains and servicing of heads
Custom injectors and servicing
Programable ECU's
Gasket sets
Crankshafts
All the parts changed out each engine rebuild
Ceramic bearings
Throttle assemblies
cables
Handlebars, grips and levers
Carbon tanks
Wheel sets
Plastics for each round
Ultra light seats
Carbon fibre bits and pieces
O/sized brake kits
Triple clamps
Ti foot pegs
airfilters for the season
race fuel
Mechanic
Engine tech
Suspenion tech
R&D guy
trainer
massage therapist
personal yogi
Manager
Transporter and awning
tableclothes
posters and other PR
Tools and tool boxs
a mule
driver
Accomadation
fuel
race entries
practice track entries
a personal test track
food
coffee
blood doping
hookers and blo on the road

The point is, if you don't have this sort of set up and costs, your not even competing for a top ten anymore. The days of John Dowd beating the factory guys are long gone.

Flame away, take the piss, I don't really care cause I'll be out doing shit today with motorbikes, not my computer.
I'm going to take a nap now. Might order a pizza. Doesn't matter really
I'm guessing your going to start another account? greasemeter. otherwise known as a dipstick

neysbo wrote:

Well maybe the Great Outdoors are slowly dying. The entry list for the 250 class only shows 39 entries and now with Smith out there will...

Well maybe the Great Outdoors are slowly dying. The entry list for the 250 class only shows 39 entries and now with Smith out there will be 38. Unreal to not even have a full gate at the first round of the year. Is it the cost and expense for the privateers or maybe a slow death for the Outdoors. The 450 class only has 49. I know entries usually pick up as the series moves East but this is ridiculous.

BobbyM wrote:

Wow.. Last century when I raced the nationals there were over 100 riders per class. Had to have qualifiers that would fill the forward falling bent...

Wow.. Last century when I raced the nationals there were over 100 riders per class. Had to have qualifiers that would fill the forward falling bent up gate. Great for a nice jump on the comp.

GreaseMeter wrote:

Shocker 'Underground' has disappeared

Underground wrote:

No I haven't. I just went to bed. As for you 2 pair of retards, you've totally missed the point that MX racing has become so...

No I haven't. I just went to bed. As for you 2 pair of retards, you've totally missed the point that MX racing has become so elite and expensive that there will be low numbers from here on in as the cost to be competative gets higher and higher. I'll admit I have no idea what karting costs but you said what would so I threw out something I thought may be cheaper due to fewer components required. I don't have race team balance sheets on me to compare so I can't give you a factual answer on that.

Facts. I'll give you an example fact. A custom set of gears costs $25,000 and they have more than one set of ratios. Do you need them? yes if you want to win.
Here's another. A set of cases lasts only 2 -3 rebuilds before a loss of 1/2 to 1 HP is seen due to slight deformation. 9RegSX + 12MX + 1MEC = 22 races / 2 = 11 sets of cases per rider. Do you need to change them that often. Depends how much HP you want to give up on a 250.
Frames. Depending on the rider and crashes you could be looking at LEAST 4 which can be cycled around to practice bikes from the 6 new bikes you started the season off with = $50,000
Kit suspension. Don't know current price but approx $10,000 x 2 sets per rider for servicing between rounds = $20,000 plus servicing costs and factory suspension tech costs during R&D and at the races = $30,000 - $40,000????
Racetech Ti bolt set = $4000 ea x 2 = $8000
Ti exhaust systems = $1200 + if you need custom tailered power at leat 5 sets = $6000
Race tires x 2 x 3 a round avg x 22 rounds = 176 = $20,000????
Custom pistons
Custom cams
Custom cylinder heads x a few trial and errors and those for SX or MX
High end valve trains and servicing of heads
Custom injectors and servicing
Programable ECU's
Gasket sets
Crankshafts
All the parts changed out each engine rebuild
Ceramic bearings
Throttle assemblies
cables
Handlebars, grips and levers
Carbon tanks
Wheel sets
Plastics for each round
Ultra light seats
Carbon fibre bits and pieces
O/sized brake kits
Triple clamps
Ti foot pegs
airfilters for the season
race fuel
Mechanic
Engine tech
Suspenion tech
R&D guy
trainer
massage therapist
personal yogi
Manager
Transporter and awning
tableclothes
posters and other PR
Tools and tool boxs
a mule
driver
Accomadation
fuel
race entries
practice track entries
a personal test track
food
coffee
blood doping
hookers and blo on the road

The point is, if you don't have this sort of set up and costs, your not even competing for a top ten anymore. The days of John Dowd beating the factory guys are long gone.

Flame away, take the piss, I don't really care cause I'll be out doing shit today with motorbikes, not my computer.
I'm going to take a nap now. Might order a pizza. Doesn't matter really
I'm guessing your going to start another account? greasemeter. otherwise known as a dipstick

line-up wrote:

Hangtown entries the last eight years: 2017 450 class: [b]52[/b] riders - 250 class: [b]41[/b] riders 2016 450 class: [b]58[/b] riders - 250 class: [b]62[/b] riders...

Hangtown entries the last eight years:

2017 450 class: 52 riders - 250 class: 41 riders
2016 450 class: 58 riders - 250 class: 62 riders
2015 450 class: 74 riders - 250 class: 64 riders
2014 450 class: 81 riders - 250 class: 74 riders
2013 450 class: 72 riders - 250 class: 77 riders
2012 450 class: 91 riders - 250 class: 67 riders
2011 450 class: 71 riders - 250 class: 74 riders
2010 450 class: 88 riders - 250 class: 74 riders

The decline picked up the last three years.

BobPA wrote:

Your "facts" are grossly over inflated opinion. A custom gear set is not $25k, you lost right off the bat. Try again dummy.

RG1 wrote:

I don't think there would be 40 riders on the gate for each European round if everyone still had to pay $1000 a race to enter...

I don't think there would be 40 riders on the gate for each European round if everyone still had to pay $1000 a race to enter.

There may be no purse money in GP's, but the teams are looked after, which means they can keep coming back each year and employing riders. Theres more small teams in the GP paddock now then I can remember for a long time for this reason. Some of the fly aways are still not good, but in Europe, they're really working

Underground wrote:

No they are facts. straight from the person who chooses what to put in a team bike. Not talking buffed and tumbled standard gears. Actual hand...

No they are facts. straight from the person who chooses what to put in a team bike. Not talking buffed and tumbled standard gears. Actual hand made to specific non stock ratios, from that aeronautical space shit you couldn't name.

line-up wrote:

Hangtown entries the last eight years: 2017 450 class: [b]52[/b] riders - 250 class: [b]41[/b] riders 2016 450 class: [b]58[/b] riders - 250 class: [b]62[/b] riders...

Hangtown entries the last eight years:

2017 450 class: 52 riders - 250 class: 41 riders
2016 450 class: 58 riders - 250 class: 62 riders
2015 450 class: 74 riders - 250 class: 64 riders
2014 450 class: 81 riders - 250 class: 74 riders
2013 450 class: 72 riders - 250 class: 77 riders
2012 450 class: 91 riders - 250 class: 67 riders
2011 450 class: 71 riders - 250 class: 74 riders
2010 450 class: 88 riders - 250 class: 74 riders

The decline picked up the last three years.

RG1 wrote:

I don't think there would be 40 riders on the gate for each European round if everyone still had to pay $1000 a race to enter...

I don't think there would be 40 riders on the gate for each European round if everyone still had to pay $1000 a race to enter.

There may be no purse money in GP's, but the teams are looked after, which means they can keep coming back each year and employing riders. Theres more small teams in the GP paddock now then I can remember for a long time for this reason. Some of the fly aways are still not good, but in Europe, they're really working

Bearuno wrote:

RG1 - you'd surely know that when the USGP was at Carlsbad and, even when the Canadian GP were run in succession, there was always far...

RG1 - you'd surely know that when the USGP was at Carlsbad and, even when the Canadian GP were run in succession, there was always far, far fewer GPs riders at them. Usually, little more than 20. But, maybe you're a youngster, and not as old as I think you might be. It's just that 'locals' - well with Carlsbad at least, showed up to Race.

It's the way it goes - smaller teams / privateers don't have the budget, and riders are injured into the season. From my memory, SX entries at the Canadian round were quite often, very much less than in the US. Costs, Cost, especially for the limited of budget.

Luongo for quite a while has thought to model 'his' series on MotoGP . He has been pretty open in wanting the same sized grids as Moto GP (having only "the best of the best" on track) - especially for MXGP . And that, is only about 24 riders. Hell even WSBK is limiting the riders and teams allowed in, and I think it too is limited now to below 30.

Loungo tried to get - well I think he did get for one season - MX1 limited to 30 riders only - tried for that number in MX2 as well.

I think he may have finally realized how bad it looks, and How much of an opening for criticism by others that his small fields brought. But, I still think he charges quite a deal for MX2 and MXGP entries.

Qatar, if it continues, will always get low numbers. Indonesia - well, if he wanted more there, he could do what was done with GPs before there, and get Australian and Kiwi riders (I had a few mates that raced at the GPs there years ago, and they got a reasonable amount of 'assistance' to participate). I doubt he'll ever reach into his pockets though.

The EMX series are fantastic - they do show that there is a lot of interest in racing throughout Europe / Britain. Though, they were brought in by Good people within various National Associations and the FIM. Not all are arseholes......

What is so strange about the 39 250 class entries at Hangtown is that it's at the very start of the US series, in California. Very surprising - not good at all. And that's without having a feeder class like EMX2 to let riders / teams get exposure and experience at a highest level event, that can divert rider participation in the main show.

What's going on? - I've no idea. It's a worry.

JMR1976 wrote:

I guarantee there will be more then 41 riders. Calm down! People acting like motocross will be dead next year. Lol

bsharkey wrote:

All the pros I talk to say the same story. Why spend so much $$ to win shit. It's all good if you're an upcoming pro...

All the pros I talk to say the same story. Why spend so much $$ to win shit. It's all good if you're an upcoming pro and you've never made a outdoor national but once you've got it the expense required and the ridiculous payout is not worth it they're better off racing locally