Cross at Ocotillo Wells

sumdood
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Edited Date/Time 5/19/2017 9:06pm
For those of you unfamiliar with the cross by the airport at the Ocotillo Wells State Off Highway Recreational Area, here's some facts about it. It's a memorial for someone, sorry to say I don't know who. It's been there since the late 60's according to the older guys, so call it close to 50 years. It's been there long before the area was an official "Off Highway Recreational Area" It was put in when it was "The middle nowhere". It's been a landmark/meeting place since I've been going out there (1978). In January of this year ONE person made a complaint that they found the cross "offensive" Whoever the powers that be are, are going to have it taken down, based on ONE FUCKING COMPLAINT ! One, uno, singular, like in 1 fucking person. I have learned that good ol' Ca. has a law on the books that says if ONE person complains about a "Religious Symbol" on gov't/state land that it needs to be taken down. One complaint, doesn't matter who from, some goat fucking muzzie who just got off the plane, some atheist whacko nutjob, could be some drunk housewife who doesn't even remember making the call. The fact is one person complained, and it's coming down. Never mind the hundreds of people writing letters and organizing efforts to keep it, it's coming down. Based on ONE complaint. By the way I'm not a super religious guy, in fact this kind of nonsense makes me thing all religious people are freakin whackjobs. Anyway I know a lot of you will say "That's Ca. for ya", It didn't used to be such an effed up place, and there's a lot of normal people here still believe it or not. I don't know how the people in charge around here got so effen brainwashed that they would make a law where ONE complaint can get something removed. ONE guy is not a legitimate complaint, come back with 100 signatures and we'll talk. ONE complaint and it's gone...... thoughts ?
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sumdood
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5/10/2017 6:44pm


Sully
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5/10/2017 7:06pm Edited Date/Time 5/10/2017 7:06pm
One more reason why I will never again live in what was the Great State of California if I can help it.
FLmxer
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5/10/2017 7:16pm
Sorry to hear that. I wish people could just go ahead and be offended and then move on instead of making people compromise for thier weakness. Its such a weird time. It sucks that so many are so frail now and have to be coddled. Oh poor me that word offends me boohoo, oh poor me this person doesnt like me boohoo, oh poor me they called me a name boohoo i cant go on with my life, or work or breathe unless they stop it. Boohoo
kzizok
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5/10/2017 7:36pm
Classic scenario of, "Beliefs should not be forced on someone, so I'm going to force my beliefs on you!

The Shop

akillerwombat
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5/10/2017 7:39pm
If the place is of that much importance replace it with something that isn't a cross.

Problem solved.
JM485
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5/10/2017 8:31pm
What I want to know is, who the hell is so stuck on themselves and entitled, that they would think it's acceptable to complain about a landmark they know nothing about, and obviously are too stupid or lazy to know the history of? I can't imagine being such a stuck up ass that I would screw that many people over just to make a point, those are the POS that we need out of this state, they're ruining everything. Who the hell cares is someone is "offended", I see stuff I don't like every single day and I don't give a damn, nothing tangible happens when you're "offended", so how has that become the buzz word of the last 10 years? Maybe you guys can just join hands and block it off like a freeway, that seems to be working pretty well.
sumdood
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5/10/2017 10:47pm
JM485 wrote:
What I want to know is, who the hell is so stuck on themselves and entitled, that they would think it's acceptable to complain about a...
What I want to know is, who the hell is so stuck on themselves and entitled, that they would think it's acceptable to complain about a landmark they know nothing about, and obviously are too stupid or lazy to know the history of? I can't imagine being such a stuck up ass that I would screw that many people over just to make a point, those are the POS that we need out of this state, they're ruining everything. Who the hell cares is someone is "offended", I see stuff I don't like every single day and I don't give a damn, nothing tangible happens when you're "offended", so how has that become the buzz word of the last 10 years? Maybe you guys can just join hands and block it off like a freeway, that seems to be working pretty well.
The thing that just bugs the shit out of me is that someone put it up as a memorial years ago, and regular visitors have used it as a reference point, something to go see, something of interest, religious people (not me) gather there at Easter and Christmas, and it's been a landmark in the area for years. The rangers were fine with it, it was part of the "Park". It was certainly nothing to get upset about, if anything it was something else to look at besides sand dirt and rocks which is really pretty much all that is out there. The fact that after all these years the pussies that be are going to react to ONE fucking complaint ? ONE ?. I know Ca. will never be the awesome place we grew up in because at some point in time these liberal pussy ass fucks somehow got in a position to make decisions, and one of those decisions was that if one person has their religious belief somehow upset that they need to resolve whatever made them upset, no matter how piddly ass it is OR how many other people LIKE it. If one guy's unhappy and he believes his religious belief's are somehow compromised they jump through a bunch of hoops for him ? For one complaint ? Fuck religion and fuck them. I knew this state has been taken over by liberal jackoffs, but I guess I had no idea how bad it really is. And I can almost guarantee you it was someone who never even knew the place existed until they saw on the news that there were lots of wildflowers out there this year from all the rains. I've never seen so much traffic headed out there as this year. And the majority of the traffic was cars, not campers with dirt toys, just miles and miles of cars. So they drove out to see the pretty flowers and ONE, uno, singular person was offended when they saw a "Cross" and actually took the time to make a formal complaint ? Who the fuck cares. The guy will probably never even be back out there anyway. Sorry for the rant, I've lived here my whole 58 years and always loved living in So. California. But I'm really starting to re-think where I want to retire. I don't know why this struck such a chord in me, it feels like the final straw. The desert has always been the one place you could go around here and have a taste of actual freedom. I'm glad they didn't venture further off the road and see some of the other memorial crosses out there. There's one some San Clemente guys put up a for friend who passed away out there. I can guarantee you if that one comes down those guys will have a bigger stronger one back within a month. Anyway Ca. sucks. But you all knew that already. Rant over. I'll go ride out there until we can't. which is looking like sooner than later Sad
sumdood
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5/10/2017 11:03pm Edited Date/Time 5/10/2017 11:04pm
I found out the history of the cross. Cut and pasted from a FB post

I guess it doesnt matter the the citizens of ocotillo wells put that cross there to honor the late Elmo Robinson , Deputy sherriff of San Diego county , in honor of his and Nancy's son , who was MIA in Vietnam , and never found , as long as the asshole who complained gets what they want .
rancor19
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5/11/2017 2:20am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2017 3:49am
Time to get proactive(not the zit cream).

Head out there with a sawzall and cut them arms off the cross. Next, drop a 20' steel tube inside that one(it looks like steel), weld it up and fly a big American flag from it. See how they like that.

Anyway, there's no fighting that garbage. The same situation happened here 20 years ago and the 9th Federal Jerkit court ruled it be removed even after it was dedicated as a war memorial. It was replaced by a flag. Here's that story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_Butte#Cross_controversy

I'm not particularly religious myself but I know BS when I see it.
5/11/2017 4:52am
rancor19 wrote:
Time to get proactive(not the zit cream). Head out there with a sawzall and cut them arms off the cross. Next, drop a 20' steel tube...
Time to get proactive(not the zit cream).

Head out there with a sawzall and cut them arms off the cross. Next, drop a 20' steel tube inside that one(it looks like steel), weld it up and fly a big American flag from it. See how they like that.

Anyway, there's no fighting that garbage. The same situation happened here 20 years ago and the 9th Federal Jerkit court ruled it be removed even after it was dedicated as a war memorial. It was replaced by a flag. Here's that story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_Butte#Cross_controversy

I'm not particularly religious myself but I know BS when I see it.
That's not a bad idea, turn it into a flag pole. That seems like the best way to save the monument at this point.
hard2kill
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5/11/2017 6:22am
If the place is of that much importance replace it with something that isn't a cross.

Problem solved.
Cause we can't be having a cross representing a place of importance. This way of thinking seems to just compound the problem. The law was not meant for separation of Church and State it's purpose was to prevent the state from doing this very type of thing, but it seems we are to far beyond ever fixing this now. Heck its not even allowed to be discussed to deeply in most circles, this thread probably won't even last long.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
kzizok
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5/11/2017 7:01am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2017 7:02am
Glad Arlington Memorial cemetary is not in California.

MR. X
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5/11/2017 9:02am
That's not a bad idea, turn it into a flag pole. That seems like the best way to save the monument at this point.
I'm guessing there's no power to leave a light on it ,someone will have to lower it every night.
peelout
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5/11/2017 9:07am
this world is full of pussies. just gotta shake my head and walk away.

seriously, who gets offended about a cross? if i ever heard any of my friends talking about how offended they are about something enough to complain publicly, then i'm fucking out. no more friendship with me bro.
sumdood
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5/11/2017 9:11am
MR. X wrote:
I'm guessing there's no power to leave a light on it ,someone will have to lower it every night.
Some kind of solar set up maybe ? There's plenty of sun lol
akillerwombat
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5/11/2017 10:39am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2017 10:46am
hard2kill wrote:
Cause we can't be having a cross representing a place of importance. This way of thinking seems to just compound the problem. The law was not...
Cause we can't be having a cross representing a place of importance. This way of thinking seems to just compound the problem. The law was not meant for separation of Church and State it's purpose was to prevent the state from doing this very type of thing, but it seems we are to far beyond ever fixing this now. Heck its not even allowed to be discussed to deeply in most circles, this thread probably won't even last long.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Does that apply to public land?

I understand it to saying that you can practice, pray, promote, denounce, etc. any religion in a public space but you can't leave behind physical representations of said religions. I personally don't give a shit if it's there (the cross – not the memorial) but I do understand why the law is the way it is.
Falcon
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5/11/2017 11:00am
I understand the amendment to mean that the US will not create an official religion, nor promote or prosecute any religion. In other words, the official business of the state does not and should not have anything to do with church or religion.
From that viewpoint, you could say that since the cross is erected on State / public land managed by a federal entity, that it represents an endorsement of Christianity. (I disagree; it's more like a tombstone.)


Anyway, I can imagine a couple possible solutions. None are better than leaving the thing right where it is, but perhaps it can be changed to a tombstone and a monument to the deputy's son. Or perhaps it can be moved to someone's private property nearby (there's lots of it around.)

As for Ocotillo Wells as a riding area, I will ride there even after we "can't." You with me, Sumdood?
borg
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5/11/2017 11:27am
I cant speak for the entire atheist community but I will say that it is difficult for me to understand why some fucking weenie would complain about something like that. How does it hurt or offend them? I would like to tie them to one of these crosses until they got the absolute shit offended out of them.



akillerwombat
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5/11/2017 11:47am Edited Date/Time 5/11/2017 11:49am
borg wrote:
I cant speak for the entire atheist community but I will say that it is difficult for me to understand why some fucking weenie would complain...
I cant speak for the entire atheist community but I will say that it is difficult for me to understand why some fucking weenie would complain about something like that. How does it hurt or offend them? I would like to tie them to one of these crosses until they got the absolute shit offended out of them.



It's probably the same reason some religious people refuse to serve gay people... there are ignorant people all around us.
sumdood
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5/11/2017 1:37pm
Falcon wrote:
I understand the amendment to mean that the US will not create an official religion, nor promote or prosecute any religion. In other words, the official...
I understand the amendment to mean that the US will not create an official religion, nor promote or prosecute any religion. In other words, the official business of the state does not and should not have anything to do with church or religion.
From that viewpoint, you could say that since the cross is erected on State / public land managed by a federal entity, that it represents an endorsement of Christianity. (I disagree; it's more like a tombstone.)


Anyway, I can imagine a couple possible solutions. None are better than leaving the thing right where it is, but perhaps it can be changed to a tombstone and a monument to the deputy's son. Or perhaps it can be moved to someone's private property nearby (there's lots of it around.)

As for Ocotillo Wells as a riding area, I will ride there even after we "can't." You with me, Sumdood?
Yessir. We raised our kids out there, no plans to stop going.
I saw this thread made it onto the face book page where it's being discussed.



Shiftfaced
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5/11/2017 1:57pm
Is this what that term "snowflake" refers to?


Happy Holidays!
KMC440
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5/11/2017 2:06pm
Get with someone to build a marker with a hundred cross' in it intertwined so not one is obvious.

I do miss my old state (visited two weeks ago) but that place is ridiculous now.
tunedlength
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5/11/2017 8:39pm Edited Date/Time 5/11/2017 8:40pm
So if one person complains about native American religious symbols they will remove them also.
We would have to remove a bunch of beautiful artwork that was here long before the snowflakes arrived.
Im with Borg,
Not a religious guy but this crap (victim-ism) has got to stop.
kzizok
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5/11/2017 8:48pm
If you dont believe in it, then it fails to exist.
sumdood
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5/11/2017 10:10pm
Turns out it's been there since April 1966, so only 51 years...


ledger
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5/11/2017 10:26pm
It's the...ALL ABOUT ME world we live in now. Damn shame.
TXDirt
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5/12/2017 1:30am
It's political correctness run amuck. Plain and simple. This cross was erected as a memorial many decades ago. The fact that it's on state or Federal land in no way implies the state is mandating or pushing a religion. This is where things have gone wrong.

Because of how long it's been there you could file to get it recorded as a state or federal landmark. But being in California that's probably a lot of work dealing with red tape.
hard2kill
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5/12/2017 6:43am
hard2kill wrote:
Cause we can't be having a cross representing a place of importance. This way of thinking seems to just compound the problem. The law was not...
Cause we can't be having a cross representing a place of importance. This way of thinking seems to just compound the problem. The law was not meant for separation of Church and State it's purpose was to prevent the state from doing this very type of thing, but it seems we are to far beyond ever fixing this now. Heck its not even allowed to be discussed to deeply in most circles, this thread probably won't even last long.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." Does that apply to public land? I understand it to...
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Does that apply to public land?

I understand it to saying that you can practice, pray, promote, denounce, etc. any religion in a public space but you can't leave behind physical representations of said religions. I personally don't give a shit if it's there (the cross – not the memorial) but I do understand why the law is the way it is.
Yes I believe when the law was written it did apply to public land, at that time God was the ultimate authority in the lives of most everyone who came to the America. It was the sole reason that the pilgrims boarded the ship, "confessing that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth,seeking a homeland whose builder and maker is God."

They had just gone through a period in which many of them had been burned at the stake at the order of the King of England, for attempting to worship God freely.

However, we are living in different times now and a strict application of the law would not work today for various reasons,which I won't go into here. Nevertheless it seems we are headed in a completely opposite direction from what our founders intended. The law is now more often applied in a manner which places the state as the ultimate authority.

This is what it really comes down to, as a country do we ultimately trust in God or Government? You really can't have it both ways, which is what we tried to do for so long, but are now moving past. It seems many are ready to make that choice now.

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