the future and the 2-stroke

prillernut
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Edited Date/Time 1/27/2012 12:03am
The USPS delivered my new copy of Roadracing World today, and the cover immediately caught my eye with "NEW TECHNOLOGY: Are Two-Stroke Engines The Future?" A very interesting, thorough, and apparently honest article by Mat Oxley.

Even if you don't give a rat's ass about asphalt burners, if you're interested in the 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke debate, or what the future may hold for 2-strokes, I think you'd find this interesting - highly recommended reading. Sounds kinda like I may more seriously consider supporting KTM in the future...
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jtomasik
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2/10/2009 5:55pm
So, what's the info?
pitbike502
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2/10/2009 6:00pm
he left us hanging.. RS50's making a retarded comeback!!!!
mike868y
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2/10/2009 6:17pm
On the moto front, I see two strokes continuing as a budget bike for those who have been hit hard by the economic crisis. Fast, easy to work on, and proven to be reliable. A perfect choice for the poor rider/racer.
prillernut
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2/10/2009 6:32pm
Huge and wide reaching article, but he includes some history of the see-saw dominance of 2-strokes vs. 4-strokes and the background as to why. Some background re. 2-stroke direct injection, which seems to be the key to it's future. Very interesting discussion re. any given new technology (in both the 2-wheel and 4-wheel worlds), and the factors involved with whether it may not be nurtured, even though it may hold more potential.

Lotus is currently doing development work on a 2-stroke car engine. He quotes a Lotus engineer, saying "Ford showed big interest in the 2-stroke, but in the end the accountants didn't let it happen". Orbital, a company from Oz that deals with direct injection ("DI"), "...recently undertook research comparing a DI 450 2-stroke with a 450 4-stroke. The 2-stroke gave the same peak power, but most importantly had more peak torque and a much wider torque range than the 4-stroke. The engine used less oil and produced no more exhaust smoke, exhaust noise or HC's, CO and NO. And it also proved smaller, lighter and less costly, as well more fuel efficient and cheaper and easier to maintain."

He notes the Japanese factories commitment to the 4-stroke, and quotes Aprilia race boss Dall'Igna, "...I think the 2-stroke is dead.". He also quotes KTM race boss Kerschhaggl, "We do not see the end of the 2-stroke...", and states that recent KTM sales figures show a "large number" of MX and enduro riders returning to 2-strokes.

Lots more stuff, but I gotta get offline - long day tomorrow. Hope this whets your appetite - go pick up the new RRW and check it out Smile

The Shop

jtomasik
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2/10/2009 6:42pm
Great info. Parallels my suspicions. The noise I've been witnessing is a return to the smokers by many who used to ride them. Hopefully a few rule changes ggets them back into production.
lumpy790
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2/10/2009 10:00pm
Ya but did you check out the Muffler Slider on the top of page 110? Cool
prillernut
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2/11/2009 4:43am
lumpy790 wrote:
Ya but did you check out the Muffler Slider on the top of page 110? Cool
har! yeah, I've noticed that ad before - what is that? looks like split fuel line... I know some guys may want all the protection they can get, but I'll take the scars on my can before I go there Blink
Suns_PSD
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2/11/2009 9:57am
The article also had a phrase that came from Orbital when they compared a modern 450cc 4 stroke w/ a modern 450cc DI 2 stroke. It's important to note that Orbital believes that instead of having a small displacement 2 stroke that has a "tuned expansion chamber" that optimizes hp but also creates a more narrow powerband that have chosen to go the route of greater displacement w/ less aggresive tuning.

What they found in the case of the 450cc comparison was that (I'm paraphrasing off memory here) "the 450cc DI 2 stroke had similiar peak hp to the 4 stoke 450 but it has a far superiour torque curve w/ more width and power throughout resulting in snappier and more fun power delivery. The DI 2s also produced less emissions, used less fuel, was cheaper to manufacturer, cheaper to maintain, had less moving parts, had lower lifetime CO footprint, weighed less, and proved to be more reliable than a comparable 4 stroke of the same displacement."

Carrying on this same theme the article pointed out that Polaris has completely ditched their 4 stroke division of their brand, Evinrude. They will no longer produce the 4 stroke outboard motor at all as they see the 2 strokes as CURRENTLY superior to the 4 strokes for the same reasons listed above and they are still getting better. This is amazing when you consider that emissions standards will only get more strict.

Modern technology has indeed made the 2 stroke relevant again in an energy and emissions concerned world that we live in today.
andymoto
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2/11/2009 10:17am
Big 4 mostly have dug their heels in the sand with the 4 bangers.

KTM has a huge opp to not only bring the rear link back, but DI off road and in racing bikes that would have the publics curiousity on its side.

MXers like things new and "trick" and would be apt to take a hard look at one.

If it ever comes to fruition. That depends on Big Daddy; AKA Feds.
Suns_PSD
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2/12/2009 8:19am
Suns_PSD wrote:
The article also had a phrase that came from Orbital when they compared a modern 450cc 4 stroke w/ a modern 450cc DI 2 stroke. It's...
The article also had a phrase that came from Orbital when they compared a modern 450cc 4 stroke w/ a modern 450cc DI 2 stroke. It's important to note that Orbital believes that instead of having a small displacement 2 stroke that has a "tuned expansion chamber" that optimizes hp but also creates a more narrow powerband that have chosen to go the route of greater displacement w/ less aggresive tuning.

What they found in the case of the 450cc comparison was that (I'm paraphrasing off memory here) "the 450cc DI 2 stroke had similiar peak hp to the 4 stoke 450 but it has a far superiour torque curve w/ more width and power throughout resulting in snappier and more fun power delivery. The DI 2s also produced less emissions, used less fuel, was cheaper to manufacturer, cheaper to maintain, had less moving parts, had lower lifetime CO footprint, weighed less, and proved to be more reliable than a comparable 4 stroke of the same displacement."

Carrying on this same theme the article pointed out that Polaris has completely ditched their 4 stroke division of their brand, Evinrude. They will no longer produce the 4 stroke outboard motor at all as they see the 2 strokes as CURRENTLY superior to the 4 strokes for the same reasons listed above and they are still getting better. This is amazing when you consider that emissions standards will only get more strict.

Modern technology has indeed made the 2 stroke relevant again in an energy and emissions concerned world that we live in today.
And I forgot to add that one of the points were that the 2 strokes are also quieter than the 4s and this is a big deal.
Sledneck
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2/12/2009 12:01pm
Some college kids won the clean air challenge, with a you guessed it, a 2 stroke sled. For the umpteenth year in a row.

MX7MX
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2/12/2009 12:41pm
2 strokes are dead, long live the 4 stroke!!!!!! I'd rather it go all electric than to bring the oil burners back!
Foster576
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2/12/2009 12:43pm
MX7MX wrote:
2 strokes are dead, long live the 4 stroke!!!!!! I'd rather it go all electric than to bring the oil burners back!
Once again....... Dry
TerryB
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2/12/2009 1:03pm
MX7MX wrote:
2 strokes are dead, long live the 4 stroke!!!!!! I'd rather it go all electric than to bring the oil burners back!
I will go electric before I ever buy a thumper. I just nullified you.

p.s. Yer ghey.
race
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2/12/2009 2:22pm
MX7MX wrote:
2 strokes are dead, long live the 4 stroke!!!!!! I'd rather it go all electric than to bring the oil burners back!
You are in sole possession of this site's "Absolute Tool" title.

No need to continue to pad your points.

Sledneck
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2/13/2009 1:29pm
MX7MX wrote:
2 strokes are dead, long live the 4 stroke!!!!!! I'd rather it go all electric than to bring the oil burners back!
TerryB wrote:
I will go electric before I ever buy a thumper. I just nullified you.

p.s. Yer ghey.
LMAO. I'll buy a KTM, or TM, Or Husky, or something.

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