Matthes on Dungey/Reed Drama...

Excaliburbmx
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Excaliburbmx 4/3/2017 7:48am
4/3/2017 7:48am
Kasims wrote:
Shoulda, coulda, woulda.. Not gonna defend Reed here, but..90% was watching this race blindfolded or what? 4min30sec plus 2laps left after Dunge made pass on him...
Shoulda, coulda, woulda..
Not gonna defend Reed here, but..90% was watching this race blindfolded or what?
4min30sec plus 2laps left after Dunge made pass on him, 4.1sec to 8sec gap in finish, was nearly 10sec gap at one moment, and Tomac obviously slowed down last lap, need to say more?
Nope sums it up. Tomac was going to leave with 25 points.
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mx_563 4/3/2017 7:56am
4/3/2017 7:56am
mx_563 wrote:
I've been travelling the past week and out of the loop....what exactly did Dungey do to provoke Reed? I gather he called him immature but what...
I've been travelling the past week and out of the loop....what exactly did Dungey do to provoke Reed? I gather he called him immature but what were the circumstances? Where/when did he call him that and why?
Thx
^^^^^^

Anybody?
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davistld01 4/3/2017 8:05am
4/3/2017 8:05am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2017 8:05am
mx_563 wrote:
I've been travelling the past week and out of the loop....what exactly did Dungey do to provoke Reed? I gather he called him immature but what...
I've been travelling the past week and out of the loop....what exactly did Dungey do to provoke Reed? I gather he called him immature but what were the circumstances? Where/when did he call him that and why?
Thx
mx_563 wrote:
^^^^^^

Anybody?
Okaaaaay...

Dungey took Reed a little wide at the start of their heat, and it pissed Reedy off (because NOBODY does that to him). It wasn't shown on the broadcast, but Dungey claimed in his post heat win interview that Reed "had something against us"...meaning he and Musquin, and accused Reed of cutting over on him in the whoops. Dungey called Reed out basically. Sooooooooo...in the main, Eli jetted out with a several-second cushion on Dungey, and then when Dungey came up on a 16th-place Reed to lap him...ol' Reedy hogged the hot line and wouldn't move over although blue flags were being waved all over the place. It wasn't that Dungey could have passed Eli...it was that Reed held RD up from going forward, and disregarded the flags. And on top of that...Reed has not been issued a penalty for blatantly ignoring the blue flag.

Is that all?

End of story.
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JW381 4/3/2017 8:06am
4/3/2017 8:06am
JW381 wrote:
Marvin also affected the race, yes. Reed held up Dungey, ruining any possible attempt Ryan had at battling with Tomac. I don't think he would have...
Marvin also affected the race, yes. Reed held up Dungey, ruining any possible attempt Ryan had at battling with Tomac. I don't think he would have beat Tomac, either. But because of Reed, we'll never know for sure. Who's to say that Dungey couldn't have put a little pressure on Eli, something he hasn't had much of, and made a mistake?

I'm not a Dungey fan boy, far from it. I think he's a square, a dweeb, and his racing style bores me as a fan. And his mom seems like a bitch. I'm a fan of racing and I think Reedy fucked up and wrongfully ruined a race.
Park Boys wrote:
"His mom seems like a bitch" you are a trifling cunt. You talk shit about some guy you have never mets mother? Michelle is very nice...
"His mom seems like a bitch" you are a trifling cunt. You talk shit about some guy you have never mets mother? Michelle is very nice, always has been. Keep your piss ass mom comments to yourself.
I was joking but you're right, poor taste. My bad. It was more or less a "yo mamma joke" gone bad.

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nickkraze
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nickkraze 4/3/2017 8:07am
4/3/2017 8:07am
Sodipop wrote:
Matthes' one flaw..... Would never cross any of the moto cool kids. Wants to be buddies.
Barcia, Anderson, Dunge, Marty? Right.
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kkawboy14 4/3/2017 8:08am
4/3/2017 8:08am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2017 8:09am
mx_563 wrote:
I've been travelling the past week and out of the loop....what exactly did Dungey do to provoke Reed? I gather he called him immature but what...
I've been travelling the past week and out of the loop....what exactly did Dungey do to provoke Reed? I gather he called him immature but what were the circumstances? Where/when did he call him that and why?
Thx
mx_563 wrote:
^^^^^^

Anybody?
davistld01 wrote:
Okaaaaay... Dungey took Reed a little wide at the start of their heat, and it pissed Reedy off (because NOBODY does that to him). It wasn't...
Okaaaaay...

Dungey took Reed a little wide at the start of their heat, and it pissed Reedy off (because NOBODY does that to him). It wasn't shown on the broadcast, but Dungey claimed in his post heat win interview that Reed "had something against us"...meaning he and Musquin, and accused Reed of cutting over on him in the whoops. Dungey called Reed out basically. Sooooooooo...in the main, Eli jetted out with a several-second cushion on Dungey, and then when Dungey came up on a 16th-place Reed to lap him...ol' Reedy hogged the hot line and wouldn't move over although blue flags were being waved all over the place. It wasn't that Dungey could have passed Eli...it was that Reed held RD up from going forward, and disregarded the flags. And on top of that...Reed has not been issued a penalty for blatantly ignoring the blue flag.

Is that all?

End of story.
You forgot the week before where apparently Reed was blaming Dungey for cutting him off in the first turn of the Main and causing him to crash and get a bad road rash.........then on the start of the very next heat race Dungey.......
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mx_563 4/3/2017 8:25am
4/3/2017 8:25am
kkawboy14 wrote:
You forgot the week before where apparently Reed was blaming Dungey for cutting him off in the first turn of the Main and causing him to...
You forgot the week before where apparently Reed was blaming Dungey for cutting him off in the first turn of the Main and causing him to crash and get a bad road rash.........then on the start of the very next heat race Dungey.......
OK so:

* Detroit Main = Dunge cuts off Reed in the first turn (which if memory serves, Dunge got a terrible start in Detroit so he was probably mired in the chaos of the "mid-pack")

* St. Louis Heat = Dunge supposedly takes Reed wide off the start.

* St. Louis Post Heat Race Interview = Dunge says something about Reed suggesting he has it in for the KTM crew, possibly also using the word "immature" at some stage (?).

* St. Louis Main: Reed holds up Dunge for three laps while getting lapped

* Vital blows up.

Is that about right?


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davistld01 4/3/2017 8:45am
4/3/2017 8:45am
kkawboy14 wrote:
You forgot the week before where apparently Reed was blaming Dungey for cutting him off in the first turn of the Main and causing him to...
You forgot the week before where apparently Reed was blaming Dungey for cutting him off in the first turn of the Main and causing him to crash and get a bad road rash.........then on the start of the very next heat race Dungey.......
mx_563 wrote:
OK so: * Detroit Main = Dunge cuts off Reed in the first turn (which if memory serves, Dunge got a terrible start in Detroit so...
OK so:

* Detroit Main = Dunge cuts off Reed in the first turn (which if memory serves, Dunge got a terrible start in Detroit so he was probably mired in the chaos of the "mid-pack")

* St. Louis Heat = Dunge supposedly takes Reed wide off the start.

* St. Louis Post Heat Race Interview = Dunge says something about Reed suggesting he has it in for the KTM crew, possibly also using the word "immature" at some stage (?).

* St. Louis Main: Reed holds up Dunge for three laps while getting lapped

* Vital blows up.

Is that about right?


In a nutshell.

I still find it totally un-Reed-like that he hasn't posted anything at all on social media yet. In the past, Chad hasn't been able to keep his "mouth" shut during controversy.
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ACBraap 4/3/2017 11:17am
4/3/2017 11:17am
davistld01 wrote:
In a nutshell. I still find it totally un-Reed-like that he hasn't posted anything at all on social media yet. In the past, Chad hasn't been...
In a nutshell.

I still find it totally un-Reed-like that he hasn't posted anything at all on social media yet. In the past, Chad hasn't been able to keep his "mouth" shut during controversy.
OTOH, I can't recall a time when Reed was so blatantly in the wrong as he is this time. Speaking up would just dig him a deeper hole. He's opinionated and outspoken, but (usually) not stupid.
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Ryno23 4/3/2017 11:26am
4/3/2017 11:26am
StartedTooLate wrote:
When you poke a bear, even an old one, nothing good comes of it. Reed is a big boy, and he knew damn well what we...
When you poke a bear, even an old one, nothing good comes of it. Reed is a big boy, and he knew damn well what we was doing. He knew it would create a storm, and he did it anyway. He is OK with it. If he gets a penalty..he will not complain. If he loses fans, frankly, he does not care at this stage in his career. You guys make these points about how Reed was "WRONG"....like that is news or he does not know it. LOL. Reed will never try to defend this as being right. If you are willing to do the time, or pay the penalty, do the crime. If you can carry it, that is your call. Those are the rules.

In the fable of the Frog and Scorpion, who is the fool?

Dungey should learn a lesson here. You are contending for a title, and there are 19 other riders, who can ruin it for you. Not by beating you, but by ruining your race. When you are a title contender, you have a different level of vulnerability. You can not get into needless feuds with other riders. If you have issues with them, you have to handle them outside the public spotlight.

Dungey called out Reed, and this is what he gets. He poked a bear that he did not have to poke.

This is the reason a rider like Barcia (or even Ando) can NEVER win a title, even if they had the speed. Too much baggage out in the open. To many riders will screw them when they have the chance to get back.
^^^^^ This is more than likely the closest explanation to the truth the internet will ever see on here.
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Crush 4/3/2017 11:36am
4/3/2017 11:36am
ACBraap wrote:
OTOH, I can't recall a time when Reed was so blatantly in the wrong as he is this time. Speaking up would just dig him a...
OTOH, I can't recall a time when Reed was so blatantly in the wrong as he is this time. Speaking up would just dig him a deeper hole. He's opinionated and outspoken, but (usually) not stupid.
He's been off social media for ages, look at his feed.
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Sodipop 4/3/2017 12:11pm
4/3/2017 12:11pm
Not a surprise that Matthes and JT were really trying to rationalize chads move in the review podcast.

Steve trying a little too hard to blame Dungey
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Jt$ 4/3/2017 12:12pm
4/3/2017 12:12pm
I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan of our work!
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Sodipop 4/3/2017 12:14pm
4/3/2017 12:14pm
And them saying there would be outrage if he was black flagged? Who gives a shit. He was in 15th place. And he was blatantly defying the blue flags. Intent, which we know, doesn't even matter. He was breaking the rules
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Jt$ 4/3/2017 12:17pm
4/3/2017 12:17pm
Sodipop wrote:
And them saying there would be outrage if he was black flagged? Who gives a shit. He was in 15th place. And he was blatantly defying...
And them saying there would be outrage if he was black flagged? Who gives a shit. He was in 15th place. And he was blatantly defying the blue flags. Intent, which we know, doesn't even matter. He was breaking the rules
16th I think.
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Motofinne 4/3/2017 12:21pm
4/3/2017 12:21pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2017 12:32pm
Sodipop wrote:
Not a surprise that Matthes and JT were really trying to rationalize chads move in the review podcast. Steve trying a little too hard to blame...
Not a surprise that Matthes and JT were really trying to rationalize chads move in the review podcast.

Steve trying a little too hard to blame Dungey
Yeah i saw that coming.

Lets take a look at the actual rules again.

From the AMA Rulebook:
4.17 Flags and Lights
It is the rider’s responsibility to be aware of their surroundings
at all times while on track. Safety is a main priority and the
riders must obey all official signals and directions given to
them. Any rider failing to do so may be penalized.
a. Solid Blue Flag:
1. Indicates you are about to be overtaken by faster riders.
2. When conditions allow, move out of the fast line.
3. Hold your line (don’t ride erratically) and do not impede the
faster riders progress.
4. Riders disregarding the blue flag may be black-flagged at
the discretion of Race Director.

I'm just going to leave this here. Now, please. Try to explain why they couldn't or shouldn't have thrown the black flag out there. With the fact that Reed dropped the lap times by almost 2 seconds and had MANY chances of moving out of the fast lane.

So the rule is not only "hold your line" like they were talking about in the podcast. But at the same time, 2 of them are biased. JT is one of CRs best friends and i expect nothing else, he should defend his friend. Matthes trying to justify the actions of Reed because of the comment from Dungey...

Well this is my last post on this matter. I'm very, very disappointed in Reeds(my favorite rider since i was 7 years old) actions. And Tomac would have probably won either way.
Jt$
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Jt$ 4/3/2017 12:27pm
4/3/2017 12:27pm
Sodipop wrote:
Not a surprise that Matthes and JT were really trying to rationalize chads move in the review podcast. Steve trying a little too hard to blame...
Not a surprise that Matthes and JT were really trying to rationalize chads move in the review podcast.

Steve trying a little too hard to blame Dungey
Not rationalize, just explain the thought process. I never, nor would ever say it was the right move.
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ACBraap 4/3/2017 12:51pm
4/3/2017 12:51pm
Sodipop wrote:
Not a surprise that Matthes and JT were really trying to rationalize chads move in the review podcast. Steve trying a little too hard to blame...
Not a surprise that Matthes and JT were really trying to rationalize chads move in the review podcast.

Steve trying a little too hard to blame Dungey
Jt$ wrote:
Not rationalize, just explain the thought process. I never, nor would ever say it was the right move.
The thought process I'd like to see explained is the one that didn't give Reed a black flag nor a post race penalty. An official who can make an instantaneous (and wrong) call to black flag the same guy after the Canard incident a few years back had nearly 3 minutes this time and yet did nothing.

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FastEddy
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FastEddy 4/3/2017 12:53pm
4/3/2017 12:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2017 12:57pm
Jt$ wrote:
I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan...
I can't wait till you guys listen to the pod today. I look forward to hearing everyone's feedback. Especially ehr400. He seems like a big fan of our work!
Good podcast.
Great insight.
The build up explanation of others instigating and getting people fired up was good too.

You guys that havent heard the podcast ,heres the link.
Its certainty worth a listen on this topic.
http://www.pulpmx.com/sites/default/files/podcasts/170403_thomas_weigan…
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TannerMxer 4/3/2017 12:55pm
4/3/2017 12:55pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
Reed just lost a ton of fans he worked hard over the years to earn!!!
Everything you wrote, phrased and punctuated looks and sounds like our president and all of his supporters.


Nothing else to see here. Move along with the conversation.
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davistld01 4/3/2017 1:07pm
4/3/2017 1:07pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
Reed just lost a ton of fans he worked hard over the years to earn!!!
TannerMxer wrote:
Everything you wrote, phrased and punctuated looks and sounds like our president and all of his supporters. Nothing else to see here. Move along with the...
Everything you wrote, phrased and punctuated looks and sounds like our president and all of his supporters.


Nothing else to see here. Move along with the conversation.
With all the drama here that you could pick from, you had to pick politics to stir the pot with. Really? ALL of his supporters?
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Husky360 4/3/2017 1:30pm
4/3/2017 1:30pm
Hope Dungey uses St. Louis as energy to fight Tomac. Let's have championship exciting instead of Tomac gaining three points every race.
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Wells423 4/3/2017 1:37pm
4/3/2017 1:37pm
I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the pipe down man. As far as JT$ saying RD should have just blasted Reed in the main? Yeah so that's where we're at? He was getting LAPPED! Why the hell should RD have to risk crashing breaking his bike or hurting himself because Reed is riding like a jerk? I figured neither of these two guys could be honest about this situation. Good on Jason W for not kissing ass though
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RbR 4/3/2017 1:53pm
4/3/2017 1:53pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2017 1:59pm
Dungey aside, Reed fucked every fan and sponsor who had spent money and time on the event hoping to see a good race. Not saying Dungey would have won, but Dungey was closing on Tomac until Reed said FU to Dungey, the fans, and sponsors.

Such a short sighted move for Reed as KTM has enough bikes on the track to make sure that neither Reed nor Webb gets anywhere near the podium.
Dirty Points 4/3/2017 1:55pm
4/3/2017 1:55pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2017 1:57pm
davistld01 wrote:
" I mean, I'm not saying Chad didn't get in Dungey's when getting lapped. It was 100% on purpose. But CR upset at RD move on...
" I mean, I'm not saying Chad didn't get in Dungey's when getting lapped. It was 100% on purpose. But CR upset at RD move on start last week..."

"...& he heard the comments on the podium after the heat race by RD so he was just "Ok, watch this..."Right or wrong, thats his excuse why he did it."
Sounds super penalty-worthy within that context.
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davistld01 4/3/2017 2:00pm
4/3/2017 2:00pm
Wells423 wrote:
I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the...
I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the pipe down man. As far as JT$ saying RD should have just blasted Reed in the main? Yeah so that's where we're at? He was getting LAPPED! Why the hell should RD have to risk crashing breaking his bike or hurting himself because Reed is riding like a jerk? I figured neither of these two guys could be honest about this situation. Good on Jason W for not kissing ass though
I pretty much concur with all you said. If Chad Reed can't get over being called "immature", then he needs to take a look in the mirror. How old is he anyway? Seriously, it's not like Dungey called him a "bitch" or something. Reed needs to grow a pair and get over it! Dungey was stuck behind Reed for three laps because Reed was hogging the line, and would surely have forced the issue had Dungey tried to come around him. I think RD played it professionally and smart by taking second and securing some points rather than risk Reed doing something stupid to him and risk crashing...and not finishing at all.
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Jt$ 4/3/2017 2:21pm
4/3/2017 2:21pm
Wells423 wrote:
I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the...
I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the pipe down man. As far as JT$ saying RD should have just blasted Reed in the main? Yeah so that's where we're at? He was getting LAPPED! Why the hell should RD have to risk crashing breaking his bike or hurting himself because Reed is riding like a jerk? I figured neither of these two guys could be honest about this situation. Good on Jason W for not kissing ass though
Because he needed to get by and get by ASAP. What would RC have done?
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rutsmash 4/3/2017 2:22pm
4/3/2017 2:22pm
Wells423 wrote:
I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the...
I'm a big fan of matthes, but cmon man! So Reed has such a fragile ego that a rider can not call him immature? Put the pipe down man. As far as JT$ saying RD should have just blasted Reed in the main? Yeah so that's where we're at? He was getting LAPPED! Why the hell should RD have to risk crashing breaking his bike or hurting himself because Reed is riding like a jerk? I figured neither of these two guys could be honest about this situation. Good on Jason W for not kissing ass though
This is exactly right. So Weimer and the rest of the lappers, next time your in 16th place, just ride wherever you want and don't ever move out of the way. Just find some reason Dunge has made you mad. All is good.
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cz2crf2wc 4/3/2017 2:38pm
4/3/2017 2:38pm


Sully22
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Sully22 4/3/2017 2:40pm
4/3/2017 2:40pm Edited Date/Time 4/3/2017 2:41pm
Kasims wrote:
Shoulda, coulda, woulda.. Not gonna defend Reed here, but..90% was watching this race blindfolded or what? 4min30sec plus 2laps left after Dunge made pass on him...
Shoulda, coulda, woulda..
Not gonna defend Reed here, but..90% was watching this race blindfolded or what?
4min30sec plus 2laps left after Dunge made pass on him, 4.1sec to 8sec gap in finish, was nearly 10sec gap at one moment, and Tomac obviously slowed down last lap, need to say more?
Kinda have to agree with this. And being an analytical person I tend to look at things from a numbers standpoint, but I also realize there are plenty of other factors that can come into play during a race and change things... that, and numbers don't tell the whole story. I'm not defendning CR22's actions at all. That being said, ET passed RD for the lead on the first lap and gained a 3.4 second lead at the 15 minutes to go mark (a rate of pulling away .68 seconds per minute). Over the next 8 minutes, at the 7:00 minutes to go mark where RD caught up to lap CR, RD had gained a total of 1.5 seconds on ET, (a rate of gaining .1875 seconds per minute). If Reed would have pulled over and let RD by, and going on the average time RD was gaining he would not have caught ET by the finish, he would have been about .4 seconds behind at the finish.

Now that doesn't take into account how ET would have reacted to the pressure, if ET slowed down, or if he would have pushed and/or pulled away or crashed for that matter, or any other factors that might have played out. but purely from a numbers standpoint, it would not have happened. We'll never know if he would have caught and passed ET, it doesn't look like it, but it might have been interesting.

Time and Gap between ET and RD (Times taken from the TV at the end of each minute)

19:00 - .9
18 .9
17 1.9
16 2.4
15 3.4
14 3.3
13 3.0
12 2.6
11 2.6
10 2.2
9 1.7
8 1.8
7 1.9 (RD was on CR22 at exactly 7:00)
6 2.4
5 3.1 (RD passed CR22 @ 4:32 left in race)
4 5.7
3 6.7
2 9.3
1 9.1
0 8.4
7.3 at the finish


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