Going from a 2006 CRF490 to a 2017 KTM SXF 450…First Impressions

PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
OK so I finally did it. Pulled the trigger on a new KTM. I’ve been waiting for the CRF, but after reading about some of the issues with it and having to pull your cam just to install a new starter motor ( I would NEVER let a dealership mechanic crack open my new bike) and the fact the KTMs are so light – not to mention the availability of white plastic (I hate orange on a MC). Then I hear how good and tunable the new AER48 forks are I decided to join the team.

First off I have never even ridden a FI 4st let alone a KTM until I rode practice on my new KTM. I just bought it on faith. I’m having issues. Granted I havn’t ridden for 2 months, am out of shape and had a stroke 6 weeks ago But other than that I expected er wanted to be charging on my new steed not crawling and bobbling out of ruts etc…at least feeling comfortable and feeling the potential of my new KTM. It’s just I feel so at home with my old bike one clicker wrong and I could feel it. The 490 just pulled! and is was so easy to ride a gear high and carry speed. The suspension feels better than my KTM right now and it’s 11 years old and only had $500 thrown at it. If anyone is looking for a clean used old style Honda. This one is fresh and proven

ERGOS
Here are my issues. First off the shifter is either too high or too low for my SG12’s. I can’t shift sitting down like you would off the line, consequently I have no confidence coming out of 2nd gear corners and grabbing third right before a booter. I feel like my foot gets stuck under the shifter, and I wouldn’t be able to eject if I had to. I adjusted my style for the day trying to pull third gear corners….I’m not there yet. Hammerhead won’t have new shifters until the next month and even then they don’t come with the adjustable tips anymore (at least heightwise)I hope the new ones fall in the right spot.
second, I know I need a lighter spring at 145lbs wet I can bearly put any preload on the spring and I’m only at 101 sag

SUSPENSION
Front
What am I doing wrong. I broke this thing in, In the garage and from the truck to the track entrance and then a 15 min practice session, then raced two half assed uncomfortable motos on it. I started with MXA’s clicker settings, but less air- 137lbs cause they felt kinda harsh in practice. (which I guess they should be coming off the showroom floor with no time on them) and bottomed metal metal on the downhill ski jump – not even skying it I feel like I want to add 20lbs to this thing. It feels like a bicycle it’s so light. -Too light, I can’t get it to settle…feels skaty. SECOND RIDE, new 42 rear spring. All I did was play with clickers on the big track at Glen Helen while all my buddies raced on the REM track. I have a spot at the bottom of Shoei Hill where I can lean my bike that I drop my tools. I started with MXA clicker settings, again with 147lbs air this time. First thing I did was take a couple laps then I went all loose and all in on both my rebound and compression riding it between each change to get a feel for these boingers .
I had it close except I was still bottoming on medium hard slap down landings so I went in on my Compression until that went away – love the manual comp clickers on WP! But I ended up at 9! That sounds too stiff? I’m wondering if checking my oil ht and what not will help, or should I just take them to FC, have them put a spring kit in them and call it a day? That’s another thing, who do I even take WP suspension to? This is a whole new world to me.

Rear
I finally have my shock close when it starts kicking too much on GH’s downhills then I know the rebound is at the limit and Shoei uphill is excellent for square edged accelerating bumps. The HS compression is more sensitive than my old Showa and the LS Compression adjustments do the same thing to the bike as they did on my Honda. I can work with the shock.

MOTOR
I can tell I’m coming off a bike with a heavy flywheel wt. The KTM revs much freer and doesn’t have the grunt my 490 has. It’s not as easy to carry a higher gear and I stalled the thing way too much. Power seems good though. I’m not even sure if I have a 5th gear. When I go to grab 5th it seems like when youir going for 6th on a 5 speed. I had to pull off the track and purposfully go through the gears, except there wasn’t a long enough straight to wind out 4th before grabbing 5th. Consequently I never could even tell if I got 5th. I would slow down and then count how many times I shifted down to double check. I hear these trannys are great so I ‘m going to wait until I get a new shifter to really decide also I went with a one tooth larger sprocket – that might have something to do with ot beig able to feel my shifts.

I know these bikes can be made to go fast because I see people doing it every weekend. I going to try and enjoy the process of getting this thing dialed in, but right now I’m not there yet. Anyone have any of the same issues I’m having with a new KTM?
|
kzizok
Posts
8425
Joined
10/19/2010
Location
USA
3/15/2017 11:20am Edited Date/Time 3/15/2017 11:21am
After reading that, my only suggestion is to think about holding off on selling your Honda for a bit.
JRT812
Posts
2791
Joined
3/4/2014
Location
Cottontown, TN, USA
3/15/2017 11:25am
kzizok wrote:
After reading that, my only suggestion is to think about holding off on selling your Honda for a bit.
lol, thought the same thing
Acidreamer
Posts
1793
Joined
8/25/2015
Location
Mansfield, OH, USA
3/15/2017 11:25am
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a new bike but air forks, hyrdro clutch, fuel injection, all that. It takes time and lots of hours to know the bike as well as your old one youve spent 4000000 hours on. Keep riding it and tinkering.
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/15/2017 11:45am
kzizok wrote:
After reading that, my only suggestion is to think about holding off on selling your Honda for a bit.
Trust me, I have. I don't even want to ride it again for that reason alone. The only reason I did this is the thing is over 10 years old. I know it was Hondas best bike until supposedly 2017, but there HAS to be improvements in the last 10 years.

The Shop

BobPA
Posts
8330
Joined
10/31/2013
Location
USA
3/15/2017 12:15pm
What are you riding that you need 5th gear?
MVmoto
Posts
94
Joined
1/26/2016
Location
Temecula, CA, USA
3/15/2017 12:22pm
Acidreamer wrote:
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a...
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a new bike but air forks, hyrdro clutch, fuel injection, all that. It takes time and lots of hours to know the bike as well as your old one youve spent 4000000 hours on. Keep riding it and tinkering.
You've made a big change! You went from a Japanese bike with Showa spring forks, Honda ergo's, etc to a KTM! I definitely think it's a different feel which might require you to adjust your riding style a little bit. Try to get a basic setup that works in most conditions and focus on your "KTM" technique. Try riding further forward vs further backwards in corners, off jumps, etc... Also, I've noticed with Fi bikes like my YZ450, I de-tuned the fi/ignition for a smoother power delivery so I could get comfortable with the handling first.
MBR
Posts
1217
Joined
9/1/2011
Location
FI
3/15/2017 1:22pm
You seemed that many same issues that I had with the KTM 450. It is a shame if you didn't have chance to test the new Honda before making the decision as I think you would have loved it coming from 2006 CRF450. As far as the issues go, we haven't had any with our bikes here in Finland.
Adam43
Posts
3309
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
WF
3/15/2017 1:33pm
115mm sag. Open the high-speed comp a half turn or more.

Put more than 147lb in your fork, back out the clickers. More spring vs damping.

Work on your fitness and technique, layoff plus health issues understandably have you on the back foot.

In the end though, the KTM is a much more aggressive bike, and it could very well be that the Honda is a better fit for you.

berniepiet
Posts
526
Joined
12/23/2009
Location
Atlanta, GA, USA
3/15/2017 1:40pm
Acidreamer wrote:
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a...
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a new bike but air forks, hyrdro clutch, fuel injection, all that. It takes time and lots of hours to know the bike as well as your old one youve spent 4000000 hours on. Keep riding it and tinkering.
This.
3/15/2017 2:09pm
This story reminds me of Captain America waking up after being asleep for 70 years...
Wink
cslacker
Posts
379
Joined
6/6/2014
Location
Glendale, AZ, USA
3/15/2017 2:27pm
Pull your shifter off, throw it in a vise and bend it enough that it is at the right level for your foot. If you read MXA then you know that they say the same thing about the shifter... And advise to do this exact thing.
305FC250
Posts
428
Joined
9/18/2016
Location
Miami, FL, USA
3/15/2017 2:31pm
DRAGONBACK wrote:
This story reminds me of Captain America waking up after being asleep for 70 years...
Wink
+1 lol
I have a 2017 Husky and don't even understand pretty much any of these complaints. The bike is amazing, the suspension is plush, handles great. Ergos are great except the kick start is in a horrible position for me.
GuyB
Posts
35722
Joined
7/10/2006
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA, USA
3/15/2017 2:41pm Edited Date/Time 3/15/2017 2:42pm
Acidreamer wrote:
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a...
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a new bike but air forks, hyrdro clutch, fuel injection, all that. It takes time and lots of hours to know the bike as well as your old one youve spent 4000000 hours on. Keep riding it and tinkering.
I'd call it more along the lines of getting used to joining a new generation.

That's comparable to going from a rotary dial phone to a new smartphone.
nytsmaC
Posts
5946
Joined
8/10/2009
Location
Frig Off, CA
3/15/2017 3:52pm
Reminds me of my first ride breaking in a new pair of Alpinestars Tech 6 boots back in the day, holy hell, awkward.

Try to not get discouraged and give it a few rides to adapt to the new bike before you write it off. Chances are once you get it set up better and get used to it the Honda will feel like a dinosaur.
Matt6505
Posts
44
Joined
11/29/2016
Location
AU
3/15/2017 4:13pm
I found coming from the Honda to KTM that they are a very different sitting bikes, KTM feels much taller in the front. Eventually got comfortable and up to speed.
Hopped back on my honda (2013 450) and the thing felt big and slower turning (I won't even start on then riding my friends yami)

Its crazy how nimble they are for a 450, once you get a feel for it and ride something else you will understand.
Dcross829
Posts
172
Joined
10/10/2016
Location
Bangor, PA, USA
3/15/2017 5:05pm
Lol @ the cell phone comparison comment but so true
Brad460
Posts
4466
Joined
5/15/2012
Location
Richfield, WI, USA
Fantasy
3/15/2017 6:17pm Edited Date/Time 3/15/2017 6:19pm
Acidreamer wrote:
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a...
Just speculating, never ridden a ktm. But it sounds like youre just going through a period of getting used to a new bike. Not just a new bike but air forks, hyrdro clutch, fuel injection, all that. It takes time and lots of hours to know the bike as well as your old one youve spent 4000000 hours on. Keep riding it and tinkering.
GuyB wrote:
I'd call it more along the lines of getting used to joining a new generation. That's comparable to going from a rotary dial phone to a...
I'd call it more along the lines of getting used to joining a new generation.

That's comparable to going from a rotary dial phone to a new smartphone.
Except any top pro would still whoop all our butts riding one of those "rotary dial phones"...not sure it's that big a difference for the average guy..

I had myself convinced I was going to be faster on my new YZ450 as compared to my "worst Honda years ever " 2011 CRF...I was sadly mistaken..
JWACK
Posts
2577
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
USA
3/15/2017 6:28pm
I went from a 2008 crf 450 to a 16 ktm. Had High hopes. Turns out my 08 is everybit as good everywhere with exception of the weight department and the air filter change. Shit my 08 has better throttle response even.
Don't even get me started on the hardware with marks all over them and the nooks and crannies everywhere on the frame that didn't get painted.
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:00am
Alright sorry for starting a thread and then checking out. Appreciate the reply's. Allow me to retort.

Well I’m making progress on my KTM awakening. Since Hammerhead won’t have shifters for a while I went to eBay and found a forged one. The tips are not removable like on the CNC version (they probably don't want people buying the cheap ones and adding the trick rubber tip to it so they rivet the forged tip on and make the springs incompatible. Well all from eBay I ordered the Forged one, and I ordered one from AS3 Performance just in case too that’s going to be returned and I found that Tusk makes one for my bike as well tht I could order if what I was planning didn’t work. Lastly I ordered the rubber tip from Hammerhead. One way or the other I’m going to figure this out and make it work.
Well today the Hammerhead tip and the shifter arrived. I immediately drilled out the rivet and discovered the hole in the arm is just slightly smaller than the pin that comes with the tip. The drill bits I had were either too small or the next one would be too big - But I was able to hog it out just enough with a rat tail file. Now the spring that came with the tip was too big for the lever (they really don’t want you to do this) so I had to use the stock spring and cut it a little since the new tip isn’t hollow. Now the issue was the tip had some up and down slop, which was a good thing because now I could make it height adjustable like the old style ones that they discontinued. I went to West Marine and got some real thin stainless washers. I can put one on each side of the tip and it will be standard height. or I can put both washers on either the top or bottom of the tip and either raise or lower it a tad bit….Money!.
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:03am
MVmoto wrote:
You've made a big change! You went from a Japanese bike with Showa spring forks, Honda ergo's, etc to a KTM! I definitely think it's a...
You've made a big change! You went from a Japanese bike with Showa spring forks, Honda ergo's, etc to a KTM! I definitely think it's a different feel which might require you to adjust your riding style a little bit. Try to get a basic setup that works in most conditions and focus on your "KTM" technique. Try riding further forward vs further backwards in corners, off jumps, etc... Also, I've noticed with Fi bikes like my YZ450, I de-tuned the fi/ignition for a smoother power delivery so I could get comfortable with the handling first.
I know but I see and hear everyone rave about these bikes and just jump on them and go fast. I know/am hoping your right. I’m getting closer and have a much better feel after blasting down the street with my boots on testing my shifter location and if see I actually have a 5th gear. It’s all good I think I’m ready to blast through the local high school now do a coupe pop-a-wheelies and see if I can drag my knuckles
I’m waiting on my Service Manual CD, then I’ll get the EFI adjusting tool. I have jetting a carburated bike pretty wired 9even though i can't spell it) and I’m good with computers. So I’m looking forward to playing around with remapping. Once I learn it, I envision investing in the tool and software for all the brands and starting a pseudo side biz programming friends ECUs or whatever the heck you flash or reprogram. Could that be a write off for my racing and $$ I spend on PC mods and hop ups? Hmmmnnnn
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:05am
MBR wrote:
You seemed that many same issues that I had with the KTM 450. It is a shame if you didn't have chance to test the new...
You seemed that many same issues that I had with the KTM 450. It is a shame if you didn't have chance to test the new Honda before making the decision as I think you would have loved it coming from 2006 CRF450. As far as the issues go, we haven't had any with our bikes here in Finland.
I have no idea why I didn’t do a back to back comparison I easily could have. I just got nervous reading some of the tests and reviews of the Honda and am thinking maybe the second year will have any kinks worked out. I just finally gave in and decided to accept the fact of all of KTM’s attributes – Kind of thinking that if I go to the dark side, and sell my soul to the Austrians – how can I not go faster….right?

At the very least I’m going to thoroughly understand these Euro marks by the time I’m done with this thing and know what all the fuss is about. I could always go back in 2018 if I truly can’t get it to work. (I will)
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:07am
Adam43 wrote:
115mm sag. Open the high-speed comp a half turn or more. Put more than 147lb in your fork, back out the clickers. More spring vs damping...
115mm sag. Open the high-speed comp a half turn or more.

Put more than 147lb in your fork, back out the clickers. More spring vs damping.

Work on your fitness and technique, layoff plus health issues understandably have you on the back foot.

In the end though, the KTM is a much more aggressive bike, and it could very well be that the Honda is a better fit for you.

This is exactly the beta I was looking for. Thanks. I was thinking the same thing about being so low on air. I’m not sure about that much sag. I’m already at 3mm up on the Fork tubes, not much room left. I feel if I went that much lower in the rear I’d be slowing down the steering too much. I’ll definitely go in that direction and pay attention. That could get it to settle more than I feel it is now.

Fitness and technique are definitely factors. I hate getting out of shape and then having to get it back. It seems the last 10 years for me has been based on doing that. I get in shape for my “season” then just let it all go to crap after Mammoth. Some years I’ll keep in shape until the Vet Worlds in Nov. but not the last couple.

I think a lot of it is mental as well. Now that I can shift with confidence, I think of the KTM a little differently. I m getting used to the angled modern bodywork compared with my Honda and all the funky bolts. I was having a problem with that every time I walked by the KTM, it’s starting to grow on me and I think I’ll be able to charge out of corners now and grab a gear before take off, I couldn’t say that before and if it’s true my first lap of my next practice it’s time to start learning the limits of a KTM.

I’m thinking the aggressive feeling I feel is more me not being used to FI and also my throttle cable didn’t have enough free play and maybe I should go back to stock gearing. Usually I like a hard hitting bike. Although with a cam and flywheel weight my big bore doesn’t really come on until it hits midrange. I wonder what the same mods on a KTM would feel like. I guess I probably shouldn’t worry about that until I feel comfortable with what I have – but I’ll say that 490 Athena Kit is the best thing I ever did to my CRF – as far as inspiring confidence
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:09am
cslacker wrote:
Pull your shifter off, throw it in a vise and bend it enough that it is at the right level for your foot. If you read...
Pull your shifter off, throw it in a vise and bend it enough that it is at the right level for your foot. If you read MXA then you know that they say the same thing about the shifter... And advise to do this exact thing.
Yeah, No (always wanted to say that) It’s kind of hard to get a good grip on it even in a vice to do that. I have a 12” breaker bar and I couldn’t get it to bend. So I tried heating it up, I used MAP gas - big mistake. I’m not too good with metallurgy, it’s been since high school and I sure as hell didn't need a braker bar – as soon as I touched it the cast lever just crumbled. The one I fabbed up from Hammerhead is sweet though and I’m stoked with it now.
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:11am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2017 2:22am
305FC250 wrote:
+1 lol I have a 2017 Husky and don't even understand pretty much any of these complaints. The bike is amazing, the suspension is plush, handles...
+1 lol
I have a 2017 Husky and don't even understand pretty much any of these complaints. The bike is amazing, the suspension is plush, handles great. Ergos are great except the kick start is in a horrible position for me.
That’s what I need to keep hearing. I’m banking on it - I’m sure 10 million people or at least a shitload of Austrians can’t be wrong
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:13am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2017 2:22am
GuyB wrote:
I'd call it more along the lines of getting used to joining a new generation. That's comparable to going from a rotary dial phone to a...
I'd call it more along the lines of getting used to joining a new generation.

That's comparable to going from a rotary dial phone to a new smartphone.
Totally!! And an Android at that. I feel completely lost. Does KTM make an app for this that I didn’t get? I don’t even know who works on a KTM, other than Factory Services. If I ever needed help with my Honda suspension, motor whatever I know dozens of people to call in the industry. KTM, what? Do I take a KTM to Mitch? (I know, I know he can make anything work better, but you know what I mean) That’s why I came here I knew your house would be the only place anyone would understand my plight
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:14am
nytsmaC wrote:
Reminds me of my first ride breaking in a new pair of Alpinestars Tech 6 boots back in the day, holy hell, awkward. Try to not...
Reminds me of my first ride breaking in a new pair of Alpinestars Tech 6 boots back in the day, holy hell, awkward.

Try to not get discouraged and give it a few rides to adapt to the new bike before you write it off. Chances are once you get it set up better and get used to it the Honda will feel like a dinosaur.
That’s another thing!! I just got a pair of Garne SG12’s 3 months ago after rocking a pair of 6 or 7 year old Tech8’s that felt like slippers with about as much support. I was just getting used to my feet work with the new boots. My shifter issues Do seem to exacerbate my barely broken in boots feeling.

Yeah, I think I’m going to feel a lot better the next time I go out. My Honda already feels like a dinosaur compared to the KTM when I’m pushing them around the garage
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:15am
Matt6505 wrote:
I found coming from the Honda to KTM that they are a very different sitting bikes, KTM feels much taller in the front. Eventually got comfortable...
I found coming from the Honda to KTM that they are a very different sitting bikes, KTM feels much taller in the front. Eventually got comfortable and up to speed.
Hopped back on my honda (2013 450) and the thing felt big and slower turning (I won't even start on then riding my friends yami)

Its crazy how nimble they are for a 450, once you get a feel for it and ride something else you will understand.
That’s what I’m hoping.
PFitzG38
Posts
1743
Joined
11/6/2009
Location
Newport Beach, CA, USA
3/23/2017 2:17am
JWACK wrote:
I went from a 2008 crf 450 to a 16 ktm. Had High hopes. Turns out my 08 is everybit as good everywhere with exception of...
I went from a 2008 crf 450 to a 16 ktm. Had High hopes. Turns out my 08 is everybit as good everywhere with exception of the weight department and the air filter change. Shit my 08 has better throttle response even.
Don't even get me started on the hardware with marks all over them and the nooks and crannies everywhere on the frame that didn't get painted.
OK, so you know what I’m talking about. But after you came on Vital and explained yourself and got everything worked out you’re now throwing mean whips and doing sick pop-a-wheelies and nailing ruts right?

It just goes to show you how good those old Honda's are and how dialed I have mine for me. It’s going to be interesting to see how long it takes me to actually feel like I’m going faster on a 11 year newer bike than I’m coming off of.
JWACK
Posts
2577
Joined
8/7/2009
Location
USA
3/23/2017 4:25am
JWACK wrote:
I went from a 2008 crf 450 to a 16 ktm. Had High hopes. Turns out my 08 is everybit as good everywhere with exception of...
I went from a 2008 crf 450 to a 16 ktm. Had High hopes. Turns out my 08 is everybit as good everywhere with exception of the weight department and the air filter change. Shit my 08 has better throttle response even.
Don't even get me started on the hardware with marks all over them and the nooks and crannies everywhere on the frame that didn't get painted.
PFitzG38 wrote:
OK, so you know what I’m talking about. But after you came on Vital and explained yourself and got everything worked out you’re now throwing mean...
OK, so you know what I’m talking about. But after you came on Vital and explained yourself and got everything worked out you’re now throwing mean whips and doing sick pop-a-wheelies and nailing ruts right?

It just goes to show you how good those old Honda's are and how dialed I have mine for me. It’s going to be interesting to see how long it takes me to actually feel like I’m going faster on a 11 year newer bike than I’m coming off of.
Yes. But the Honda is still just as good if not better.! That 08 with B kit is just a dang awesome bike. It handles superb. Never a wobble and never a push. It does feel heavy in some situations, That's the absolutely only thing that it isn't as good at. And the air filter sucks to change. I still like the carb better than my efi. Maybe I'm broken.
One major advantage I've found with the Honda "at least for me" is flat hard corners. sliding the rear. When your coming in hot" pushing the front and rear kinda hot" and let the rear start stepping out to flat track, its way more predictable than the ktm. I can let the Honda get way way out there the same every time. The ktm slides in one way one lap and then the next lap it does it different.
aees
Posts
2794
Joined
8/20/2015
Location
USA
3/23/2017 4:53am
Set clickers back to stock. Get the right rear spring for your weight, set it to ~107mm sag, (make sure there is preload on the spring and reasonable static). Then adjust air pressure until you have a balanced bike and maybe 10-15mm left on fork travel.

Then start with clickers. Not before.

Post a reply to: Going from a 2006 CRF490 to a 2017 KTM SXF 450…First Impressions

The Latest