So guess who won? 450 Shootout is live...

coastlinecascot 12/10/2016 2:23pm
12/10/2016 2:23pm
coastlinecascot wrote:
When I rode a 16 ktm450 being 6'4" felt really cramped like a bicycle.
Tarz483 wrote:
Are there any that u dont feel cramped on ?
2012 kx450 and my 15 yz450. Also the 08 crf450 was nice
Spat24 12/10/2016 2:36pm
12/10/2016 2:36pm
Will be cool to see the data - especially the lap times for each rider on each bike. It will be interesting if their fastest lap is on a different bike than their number 1 choice.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 2:51pm
12/10/2016 2:51pm
sebastianer wrote:
yes the 17s bikes are all compareble, the point is now we know which 2017 bike run the best on dyno. but then you starting to...
yes the 17s bikes are all compareble, the point is now we know which 2017 bike run the best on dyno. but then you starting to talk about what hp bikes put down last year and that´s not comparable with this years bikes.
yes dynos tell one thing, how they get the HP down onto the dirt and hook up is pretty important too, no use having a bike that has great HP but snakes, its way around the track. Sounds like the KTM, Husky and Honda do that the best.
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hellion 12/10/2016 3:09pm
12/10/2016 3:09pm
ML512, in the future you really should weigh the bikes with all fluids, but tanks dry. It makes no sense to have full tanks when on brand carries .6 gallons more than another. The KTM/husky would be even lighter comparatively if weighed this way. It really makes you wonder how they can be so light, with electric start especially.

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yzjs7
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yzjs7 12/10/2016 3:13pm
12/10/2016 3:13pm
I'm used to riding a 250 2 stroke so any one of these bikes will produce capable power. My opinion comes down to how the bike feels and it's ergonomics. Just standing and sitting on the bike on the stand tells me a lot.
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TeamGreen 12/10/2016 3:15pm
12/10/2016 3:15pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2016 3:25pm
Superdave19 wrote:
Man if the Husky ranked juuuust overall a bit better than the KTM, would it be fair to say the FC350 may trump the KTM350 slightly?

It does for me for the ergonomics and the suspension settings.

Just rode an FC350 all day at the KC66 ride...it was awesome on the trails and "special test" on map 1 w/ TC on. On the MX tack it was light and "flickable" in a way that is soooo "250".
The bike is an AWESOME "All Around" dirt-bike.
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TeamGreen 12/10/2016 3:17pm
12/10/2016 3:17pm
sebastianer wrote:
yes the 17s bikes are all compareble, the point is now we know which 2017 bike run the best on dyno. but then you starting to...
yes the 17s bikes are all compareble, the point is now we know which 2017 bike run the best on dyno. but then you starting to talk about what hp bikes put down last year and that´s not comparable with this years bikes.
kiwifan wrote:
yes dynos tell one thing, how they get the HP down onto the dirt and hook up is pretty important too, no use having a bike...
yes dynos tell one thing, how they get the HP down onto the dirt and hook up is pretty important too, no use having a bike that has great HP but snakes, its way around the track. Sounds like the KTM, Husky and Honda do that the best.
BOOM!

It's how they deliver it and what the chassis allows you do do with it.
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ML512 12/10/2016 4:23pm
12/10/2016 4:23pm
hellion wrote:
ML512, in the future you really should weigh the bikes with all fluids, but tanks dry. It makes no sense to have full tanks when on...
ML512, in the future you really should weigh the bikes with all fluids, but tanks dry. It makes no sense to have full tanks when on brand carries .6 gallons more than another. The KTM/husky would be even lighter comparatively if weighed this way. It really makes you wonder how they can be so light, with electric start especially.
I get more complaints when I weigh them dry. I'll include both next year but honestly wet weight matters to me much more.
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ML512 12/10/2016 4:24pm
12/10/2016 4:24pm
Spat24 wrote:
Will be cool to see the data - especially the lap times for each rider on each bike. It will be interesting if their fastest lap...
Will be cool to see the data - especially the lap times for each rider on each bike. It will be interesting if their fastest lap is on a different bike than their number 1 choice.
I'm doing the same averages from the 250F Shootout. Showing each rider's individual times doesn't do much with varying conditions.
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hellion 12/10/2016 4:58pm
12/10/2016 4:58pm
ML512, sorry if you thought it was a complaint. It was more of an idea I thought would be an improvement. Mainly because, if anyone goes to the line with a full tank for a five lap moto then they aren't taking every advantage that they should. It would be complicated to do, but I suppose you could put the same amount of fuel that the smallest tank holds in each bike. But now we're getting crazy. At the end of the day, I think you guys did a great job!
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 5:00pm
12/10/2016 5:00pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2016 5:02pm
TeamGreen wrote:
BOOM!

It's how they deliver it and what the chassis allows you do do with it.
Question for you ML, the CRF forks...from what I have read (and experienced first hand) yes are a little soft, but do you think with some fine tuning from Race Tech etc would make them better than well setup PSF's or dare I say it the AER's? I dont think it would take a lot of dollars to make them awesome..thoughts?
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Braap19 12/10/2016 5:00pm
12/10/2016 5:00pm
Maybe this only really applies to a few people but I want to see a test rider at 6' 3" or taller and around 200 pounds. And see what they think about each bike.

I personally dislike the Husky and KTM 450 cockpits because my knees are just simply above the seat unless I am sitting. But the Kawi fits me better in this aspect.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 12/10/2016 5:27pm
12/10/2016 5:27pm Edited Date/Time 12/10/2016 5:28pm
TeamGreen wrote:
BOOM!

It's how they deliver it and what the chassis allows you do do with it.
kiwifan wrote:
Question for you ML, the CRF forks...from what I have read (and experienced first hand) yes are a little soft, but do you think with some...
Question for you ML, the CRF forks...from what I have read (and experienced first hand) yes are a little soft, but do you think with some fine tuning from Race Tech etc would make them better than well setup PSF's or dare I say it the AER's? I dont think it would take a lot of dollars to make them awesome..thoughts?
Here's an old guys opinion...

I think a couple of days with a flat-blade screwdriver and, for some, firmer springs and you'll be in heaven.

The Honda rear suspension hasn't received it's fair amount of praise; because, it's excellent. It REALLY tracks well and puts power DOWN. As I said in other threads, I -really- think the RX has a better feel to it in how it DOESN'T give all the jolts that the R does. It does everything the same it just seems to deliver less of the bumps and jolts to the rider. Heck, it might be the valving and/of different engine hangers...part of it might be the different tires.

The Honda is a HUGE step forward.

On the other-hand, I rated the Yamaha 2nd. The 2 are really close and REALLY GOOD.

The bikes I'm the most bummed about NOT rating higher: the 350 & the RMZ. In both cases they are EXCELLENT & have the potential to be awesome for the person that is looking for a realllllly easy and fun bike (350) or the person that will invest some time and money in those TACs (Suzuki).

The Kawsaki was just set-up weird and the forks were the most difficult to get right. That chaps my ass since my handle is TeamGreen. Rating it last kinda pisses me off; but, it was the least stable and the motor didn't do anything down low...at all.

If you read my write-up: the KTM is sentenced to being "too fast"! No foolin'. It's AWESOME FAST and will jump to Mars and land smoothly at that distance. I'm a 53 year old "Vet/Senior" rider...I DON'T really need all that...all the time. That bike is the hands-down EASIEST to rate as "Best Pro 450". With custom mapping and some race fuel...I'll bet that thing would make power that we would t believe...
But, the Husky can do alllllll the same things and it was waaaaaaay eaier for -me- to go fast on. My fastest laps, by far, were on the Husky. Notably, I believe my top 5 or 6 fast laps were ALL on the Husky.

Someone asked if the Husky 350 benefited from it's differences the same way the 450 does (versus the KTM). The answer for me is "Yes".
ML512
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ML512 12/10/2016 5:27pm
12/10/2016 5:27pm
hellion wrote:
ML512, sorry if you thought it was a complaint. It was more of an idea I thought would be an improvement. Mainly because, if anyone goes...
ML512, sorry if you thought it was a complaint. It was more of an idea I thought would be an improvement. Mainly because, if anyone goes to the line with a full tank for a five lap moto then they aren't taking every advantage that they should. It would be complicated to do, but I suppose you could put the same amount of fuel that the smallest tank holds in each bike. But now we're getting crazy. At the end of the day, I think you guys did a great job!
Sorry, long day for me, didn't mean to come across so craby while typing from the phone. It's definitely on the list of things to do next year, dry and wet weight.
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ML512 12/10/2016 5:35pm
12/10/2016 5:35pm
Braap19 wrote:
Maybe this only really applies to a few people but I want to see a test rider at 6' 3" or taller and around 200 pounds...
Maybe this only really applies to a few people but I want to see a test rider at 6' 3" or taller and around 200 pounds. And see what they think about each bike.

I personally dislike the Husky and KTM 450 cockpits because my knees are just simply above the seat unless I am sitting. But the Kawi fits me better in this aspect.
Derrick Caskey is 6'2" and 190 pounds (he's fairly lean and active), so he's close to your request...
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 5:39pm
12/10/2016 5:39pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Here's an old guys opinion... I think a couple of days with a flat-blade screwdriver and, for some, firmer springs and you'll be in heaven. The...
Here's an old guys opinion...

I think a couple of days with a flat-blade screwdriver and, for some, firmer springs and you'll be in heaven.

The Honda rear suspension hasn't received it's fair amount of praise; because, it's excellent. It REALLY tracks well and puts power DOWN. As I said in other threads, I -really- think the RX has a better feel to it in how it DOESN'T give all the jolts that the R does. It does everything the same it just seems to deliver less of the bumps and jolts to the rider. Heck, it might be the valving and/of different engine hangers...part of it might be the different tires.

The Honda is a HUGE step forward.

On the other-hand, I rated the Yamaha 2nd. The 2 are really close and REALLY GOOD.

The bikes I'm the most bummed about NOT rating higher: the 350 & the RMZ. In both cases they are EXCELLENT & have the potential to be awesome for the person that is looking for a realllllly easy and fun bike (350) or the person that will invest some time and money in those TACs (Suzuki).

The Kawsaki was just set-up weird and the forks were the most difficult to get right. That chaps my ass since my handle is TeamGreen. Rating it last kinda pisses me off; but, it was the least stable and the motor didn't do anything down low...at all.

If you read my write-up: the KTM is sentenced to being "too fast"! No foolin'. It's AWESOME FAST and will jump to Mars and land smoothly at that distance. I'm a 53 year old "Vet/Senior" rider...I DON'T really need all that...all the time. That bike is the hands-down EASIEST to rate as "Best Pro 450". With custom mapping and some race fuel...I'll bet that thing would make power that we would t believe...
But, the Husky can do alllllll the same things and it was waaaaaaay eaier for -me- to go fast on. My fastest laps, by far, were on the Husky. Notably, I believe my top 5 or 6 fast laps were ALL on the Husky.

Someone asked if the Husky 350 benefited from it's differences the same way the 450 does (versus the KTM). The answer for me is "Yes".
Thanks Manny, yeah I had no complaints with the rear shock in the time i had on the bike either, probably best rear shock on a honda since god knows when.

thanks for the feedback....I think the RX should be seriously considered...thinking hard about it...at my age not concerned about the ES...but...hey if it has it standard then hmmmmm decisions decisions !!!
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TeamGreen 12/10/2016 5:42pm
12/10/2016 5:42pm
TeamGreen wrote:
Here's an old guys opinion... I think a couple of days with a flat-blade screwdriver and, for some, firmer springs and you'll be in heaven. The...
Here's an old guys opinion...

I think a couple of days with a flat-blade screwdriver and, for some, firmer springs and you'll be in heaven.

The Honda rear suspension hasn't received it's fair amount of praise; because, it's excellent. It REALLY tracks well and puts power DOWN. As I said in other threads, I -really- think the RX has a better feel to it in how it DOESN'T give all the jolts that the R does. It does everything the same it just seems to deliver less of the bumps and jolts to the rider. Heck, it might be the valving and/of different engine hangers...part of it might be the different tires.

The Honda is a HUGE step forward.

On the other-hand, I rated the Yamaha 2nd. The 2 are really close and REALLY GOOD.

The bikes I'm the most bummed about NOT rating higher: the 350 & the RMZ. In both cases they are EXCELLENT & have the potential to be awesome for the person that is looking for a realllllly easy and fun bike (350) or the person that will invest some time and money in those TACs (Suzuki).

The Kawsaki was just set-up weird and the forks were the most difficult to get right. That chaps my ass since my handle is TeamGreen. Rating it last kinda pisses me off; but, it was the least stable and the motor didn't do anything down low...at all.

If you read my write-up: the KTM is sentenced to being "too fast"! No foolin'. It's AWESOME FAST and will jump to Mars and land smoothly at that distance. I'm a 53 year old "Vet/Senior" rider...I DON'T really need all that...all the time. That bike is the hands-down EASIEST to rate as "Best Pro 450". With custom mapping and some race fuel...I'll bet that thing would make power that we would t believe...
But, the Husky can do alllllll the same things and it was waaaaaaay eaier for -me- to go fast on. My fastest laps, by far, were on the Husky. Notably, I believe my top 5 or 6 fast laps were ALL on the Husky.

Someone asked if the Husky 350 benefited from it's differences the same way the 450 does (versus the KTM). The answer for me is "Yes".
kiwifan wrote:
Thanks Manny, yeah I had no complaints with the rear shock in the time i had on the bike either, probably best rear shock on a...
Thanks Manny, yeah I had no complaints with the rear shock in the time i had on the bike either, probably best rear shock on a honda since god knows when.

thanks for the feedback....I think the RX should be seriously considered...thinking hard about it...at my age not concerned about the ES...but...hey if it has it standard then hmmmmm decisions decisions !!!
You can put the kick-stand down. Turn the bike off. Help the guy on the ground get back up. Get back on, kick-stand up, button...wheelie.

I'm jus' sayin'...
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 5:44pm
12/10/2016 5:44pm
TeamGreen wrote:
You can put the kick-stand down. Turn the bike off. Help the guy on the ground get back up. Get back on, kick-stand up, button...wheelie. I'm...
You can put the kick-stand down. Turn the bike off. Help the guy on the ground get back up. Get back on, kick-stand up, button...wheelie.

I'm jus' sayin'...
lmfao....that context might sway me lol

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JB 19
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JB 19 12/10/2016 5:51pm
12/10/2016 5:51pm
Isn't the RX 18 pounds heavier though? Blink
JohnRoy
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JohnRoy 12/10/2016 5:51pm
12/10/2016 5:51pm
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it last.
What's that say about the vital 250 shootout?
scooter5002
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scooter5002 12/10/2016 5:54pm
12/10/2016 5:54pm
Different people have different opinions?
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BobPA 12/10/2016 5:54pm
12/10/2016 5:54pm
JohnRoy wrote:
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it...
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it last.
What's that say about the vital 250 shootout?
What's that say about the transworld shootout?
kiwifan
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kiwifan 12/10/2016 5:56pm
12/10/2016 5:56pm
JohnRoy wrote:
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it...
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it last.
What's that say about the vital 250 shootout?
it says they are different riders, on different tracks and have differing opinions....nothing conspiracy-like about that.
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JohnRoy 12/10/2016 5:58pm
12/10/2016 5:58pm
JohnRoy wrote:
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it...
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it last.
What's that say about the vital 250 shootout?
kiwifan wrote:
it says they are different riders, on different tracks and have differing opinions....nothing conspiracy-like about that.
Not really pointing out conspiracies. Just maybe, vital picked a bunch of novice "riders". Not saying novice in skill, just novice in doing shootouts
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JohnRoy 12/10/2016 5:59pm
12/10/2016 5:59pm
BobPA wrote:
What's that say about the transworld shootout?
That more experienced, faster riders ranked the yz first...
Spat24 12/10/2016 6:09pm
12/10/2016 6:09pm
Spat24 wrote:
Will be cool to see the data - especially the lap times for each rider on each bike. It will be interesting if their fastest lap...
Will be cool to see the data - especially the lap times for each rider on each bike. It will be interesting if their fastest lap is on a different bike than their number 1 choice.
ML512 wrote:
I'm doing the same averages from the 250F Shootout. Showing each rider's individual times doesn't do much with varying conditions.
Agree -conditions will affect times - but still cool to see it.
Thanks doing the shootout, great info.
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bvm111 12/10/2016 6:16pm
12/10/2016 6:16pm
JohnRoy wrote:
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it...
Anyone else catch the Transworld 250f shootout? Every test rider above novice skill level ranked the yzf 1st. The one and only novice rider ranked it last.
What's that say about the vital 250 shootout?
kiwifan wrote:
it says they are different riders, on different tracks and have differing opinions....nothing conspiracy-like about that.
JohnRoy wrote:
Not really pointing out conspiracies. Just maybe, vital picked a bunch of novice "riders". Not saying novice in skill, just novice in doing shootouts


Samuel
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Samuel 12/10/2016 6:29pm
12/10/2016 6:29pm
BobPA wrote:
What's that say about the transworld shootout?
JohnRoy wrote:
That more experienced, faster riders ranked the yz first...
Sounds like the opposite to me. Both mxa and vital agree that the Yamaha is worse than it was last year. You must own a Yamaha. It is extremely unusual for all pro riders to agree on a bike. Even if riders have the same skill level, heights and weights are going to be different, affecting the preference of the bike. Sounds like transworld has a ridiculous shootout.
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Superdave19 12/10/2016 6:33pm
12/10/2016 6:33pm
On the 'agility' scale, what's the consensus out of the KTM, Husky, and Honda? ..all of them feel about the same in motion?
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Braap19 12/10/2016 6:35pm
12/10/2016 6:35pm
Braap19 wrote:
Maybe this only really applies to a few people but I want to see a test rider at 6' 3" or taller and around 200 pounds...
Maybe this only really applies to a few people but I want to see a test rider at 6' 3" or taller and around 200 pounds. And see what they think about each bike.

I personally dislike the Husky and KTM 450 cockpits because my knees are just simply above the seat unless I am sitting. But the Kawi fits me better in this aspect.
ML512 wrote:
Derrick Caskey is 6'2" and 190 pounds (he's fairly lean and active), so he's close to your request...
Oops good look. Didn't see that. I assumed he was horse jockey sized like you ML

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