AMA Sanction race rule question

9/19/2016 7:26pm
racer369 wrote:
Now Im told they can change any rule they want. Its their race. Even though AMA sanctioned. O well, not going to any of this promotors...
Now Im told they can change any rule they want. Its their race. Even though AMA sanctioned. O well, not going to any of this promotors races.
No matter what races you go to you are better off doing the racing on the track and not after with rule books and protests.
9/19/2016 7:29pm
imoto34 wrote:
Same bike all moto's. People do ease around this and sometimes they will or will not have a problem with it. I was lined up at...
Same bike all moto's. People do ease around this and sometimes they will or will not have a problem with it.

I was lined up at a second moto 250B LL Regional and a guy beside me was on his 450 with black backgrounds.

So they had the black backgrounds for the 450 in the rig ready, but the first moto he was running yellow backgrounds on his 250.

If you think that you can get away without anyone noticing your wrong. If a good rider is on a 450, it will walk away on the start and sounds nothing like the small bore. You catch someone doing this?
So there was a 450 in the 250 class and no one knew ?? I find that hard to believe.
kkawboy14
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9/19/2016 7:37pm
imoto34 wrote:
Same bike all moto's. People do ease around this and sometimes they will or will not have a problem with it. I was lined up at...
Same bike all moto's. People do ease around this and sometimes they will or will not have a problem with it.

I was lined up at a second moto 250B LL Regional and a guy beside me was on his 450 with black backgrounds.

So they had the black backgrounds for the 450 in the rig ready, but the first moto he was running yellow backgrounds on his 250.

If you think that you can get away without anyone noticing your wrong. If a good rider is on a 450, it will walk away on the start and sounds nothing like the small bore. You catch someone doing this?
lostboy819 wrote:
So there was a 450 in the 250 class and no one knew ?? I find that hard to believe.
Exactly!

Nobody cares what you ride in the age bracket races.
imoto34
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9/19/2016 7:51pm
lostboy819 wrote:
So there was a 450 in the 250 class and no one knew ?? I find that hard to believe.
Everyone knew. Just not until the gate drop, but he was not black flagged. Bike was pushed thru staging to the gate and by then no one had said anything, until gate dropped. No DQ for the 2nd moto on the results, and DNS for the 3rd moto.

The Shop

imoto34
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9/19/2016 7:54pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2016 7:56pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Exactly!

Nobody cares what you ride in the age bracket races.
I never said that it went unnoticed.

So your saying you can switch bikes between moto's in the age classes?
kzizok
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9/19/2016 7:56pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2016 7:57pm
imoto34 wrote:
Everyone knew. Just not until the gate drop, but he was not black flagged. Bike was pushed thru staging to the gate and by then no...
Everyone knew. Just not until the gate drop, but he was not black flagged. Bike was pushed thru staging to the gate and by then no one had said anything, until gate dropped. No DQ for the 2nd moto on the results, and DNS for the 3rd moto.

Did he have the same number? Was the official informed beforehand?

My area has very little AMA races. The only experience Ive had with AMA are LL's.
9/19/2016 8:10pm
lostboy819 wrote:
No matter what races you go to you are better off doing the racing on the track and not after with rule books and protests.
Truth.
9/19/2016 8:26pm
kkawboy14 wrote:
Exactly!

Nobody cares what you ride in the age bracket races.
imoto34 wrote:
I never said that it went unnoticed.

So your saying you can switch bikes between moto's in the age classes?
In the vet and senior classes you can ride what ever size bike you want and even if you switched bikes between motos no one would give a damn. Wink
Paw Paw
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9/19/2016 9:05pm
Many years ago I rode a cr125 in the plus 40 LL regional and I blew out the output shaft on the last lap of the first moto. I ask the AMA officials if I could change to a different bike and they said I could in my class. I then rode an open class bike for the final moto. It was questioned by other riders and the AMA said it was ok in the age bracket classes.

Paw PAw
imoto34
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9/19/2016 9:09pm
lostboy819 wrote:
In the vet and senior classes you can ride what ever size bike you want and even if you switched bikes between motos no one would...
In the vet and senior classes you can ride what ever size bike you want and even if you switched bikes between motos no one would give a damn. Wink
That may be the case at a non AMA sanctioned race.

From the rule book, you can not ride more then one bike in the same class.

9/19/2016 11:53pm
We have AMA races here and still nobody gives a damn. Pinch
Team Ideal
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9/20/2016 5:32am Edited Date/Time 9/20/2016 5:32am
if you click on the link Ed posted (the MidAmerica one) this is listed about half way down

"A rider may ride a different bike in the second moto than they rode in the first moto with prior approval of MAMS officials. It is the riders responsibility to make sure any such changes (rider number) are reported to the starter, office, and score keepers. The number on the rider and bike must match."

we ride this series every once in a while and I had no idea it was a supplemental rule. I can't say I really agree with it but it won't stop us from going. hell now that I know about it someday it might work out in our favor. before we would have just loaded up and went home or missed that second moto.
9/20/2016 7:36am
Age division or open class I see nothing wrong with it. It's all for a plastic trophy. Even a local "money" race is 75-100% payback for a win. You don't win anything. You just don't get charged to race. Big deal.
racer369
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9/20/2016 8:18am
ed wrote:
Nope,,, didn't happen... I did not get in your face and tell you anything... you told me you know more about the AMA rules than I...
Nope,,, didn't happen... I did not get in your face and tell you anything... you told me you know more about the AMA rules than I will ever know and you were riding AMA races before I was born. LOL I'm 51 and started racing in 1971.
And you had never heard of supplemental rules?

Here it the simple truth.

Every event has supplemental rules that should be approved by the AMA. It is the promoter's responsibly to post such supplemental rules and have then available at each event. It is the riders responsibly to know the rules for the event he or she is riding.

In this case the rules are posted on the event/series website and are at the office of each event. You ask for said rules and had a copy handed to you on demand.
http://midamericamxseries.com/Mid_America_MX_Series_Rules.htm

If you ride a Loretta Lynn qualifier or at the national you need to read their supplemental rules that are here.
http://mxsports.com/pages/supplemental-rules

If you ride AMA D17 you need to know these rules...
http://www.amadistrict17.com/services/d-17webrulebook.htm

If you ride AMA D18 you need to know these rules...
http://district18racing.net/uploads/3/4/8/8/34884905/d18_supplemental_r…

Those rules can also be added to by what venue your at... Yes each track may also have supplemental rules...

If you want any more info please contact me at ed@lachanceracing.com or look up my phone number on the AMA website.

...........
Ed LaChance
Mid America Series AMA official
AMA Congressman
AMA Motocross rules Committee Member
AMA General Rules Committee Member
First Ed. I did NOT say it was you that got in my face. So are you calling me a liar? YOU were RIDING in the same moto. It was a guy wearing a Yamaha blue team shirt. He was one of your crew! I repeat. I didn't say it was you!

Second, Why do we have rules if they can be bent, changed or ignored at the will of the promoter?

Last. I did not mention your name or series in my question. Just asked a question.
TeamGreen
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9/20/2016 8:29am
ed wrote:
Nope,,, didn't happen... I did not get in your face and tell you anything... you told me you know more about the AMA rules than I...
Nope,,, didn't happen... I did not get in your face and tell you anything... you told me you know more about the AMA rules than I will ever know and you were riding AMA races before I was born. LOL I'm 51 and started racing in 1971.
And you had never heard of supplemental rules?

Here it the simple truth.

Every event has supplemental rules that should be approved by the AMA. It is the promoter's responsibly to post such supplemental rules and have then available at each event. It is the riders responsibly to know the rules for the event he or she is riding.

In this case the rules are posted on the event/series website and are at the office of each event. You ask for said rules and had a copy handed to you on demand.
http://midamericamxseries.com/Mid_America_MX_Series_Rules.htm

If you ride a Loretta Lynn qualifier or at the national you need to read their supplemental rules that are here.
http://mxsports.com/pages/supplemental-rules

If you ride AMA D17 you need to know these rules...
http://www.amadistrict17.com/services/d-17webrulebook.htm

If you ride AMA D18 you need to know these rules...
http://district18racing.net/uploads/3/4/8/8/34884905/d18_supplemental_r…

Those rules can also be added to by what venue your at... Yes each track may also have supplemental rules...

If you want any more info please contact me at ed@lachanceracing.com or look up my phone number on the AMA website.

...........
Ed LaChance
Mid America Series AMA official
AMA Congressman
AMA Motocross rules Committee Member
AMA General Rules Committee Member
racer369 wrote:
First Ed. I did NOT say it was you that got in my face. So are you calling me a liar? YOU were RIDING in the...
First Ed. I did NOT say it was you that got in my face. So are you calling me a liar? YOU were RIDING in the same moto. It was a guy wearing a Yamaha blue team shirt. He was one of your crew! I repeat. I didn't say it was you!

Second, Why do we have rules if they can be bent, changed or ignored at the will of the promoter?

Last. I did not mention your name or series in my question. Just asked a question.
"A rider may ride a different bike in the second moto than they rode in the first moto with prior approval of MAMS officials. It is the riders responsibility to make sure any such changes (rider number) are reported to the starter, office, and score keepers. The number on the rider and bike must match."

That was actually posted BEFORE your latest angst toward "Ed" & seems it's not that unusual FOR AGE CLASS RACING.

Interesting....wonder if I can do this in Over 50 at Mammoth...?
450 in the morning and 350 on the afternoon....hmmmmmm?
hvaughn88
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9/20/2016 8:36am
Just out of curiosity, what bike were you riding in the race?
MarkF
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9/20/2016 8:38am
Racer369,

You are the one that said rules are rules. The rules clearly state that you can ride a different bike in the second moto. Obviously you didn't know the rules. The official showed you the rules that were posted before the event. End of story.
TeamGreen
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9/20/2016 8:40am
hvaughn88 wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what bike were you riding in the race?
....2 stroke...?
GangGreen
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9/20/2016 8:46am
Grizz wrote:
You have to ride the same bike both motos.
....only if the frame was damaged, in AMA Sanctioned Events.

jeffro503
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9/20/2016 9:02am Edited Date/Time 9/20/2016 9:03am
racer369 wrote:
Rules are Rules.
....
racer369
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9/20/2016 9:05am
MarkF wrote:
Racer369, You are the one that said rules are rules. The rules clearly state that you can ride a different bike in the second moto. Obviously...
Racer369,

You are the one that said rules are rules. The rules clearly state that you can ride a different bike in the second moto. Obviously you didn't know the rules. The official showed you the rules that were posted before the event. End of story.
Sorry dude. the official did not show me the rules. Like I said I just asked a question. Apparently it got a bunch of panties in a wad.
jeffro503
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9/20/2016 9:49am
MarkF wrote:
Racer369, You are the one that said rules are rules. The rules clearly state that you can ride a different bike in the second moto. Obviously...
Racer369,

You are the one that said rules are rules. The rules clearly state that you can ride a different bike in the second moto. Obviously you didn't know the rules. The official showed you the rules that were posted before the event. End of story.
racer369 wrote:
Sorry dude. the official did not show me the rules. Like I said I just asked a question. Apparently it got a bunch of panties in...
Sorry dude. the official did not show me the rules. Like I said I just asked a question. Apparently it got a bunch of panties in a wad.
It sounded like your panties got all wadded for complaining about this in the first place. Calling out on the rule book because a guys switched bikes ( Different size , but still legal )....and you said you would just boycott any future races with that promoter. It's an age bracket race for Christ's sake! Who the hell cares what others are running? You protested another rider , for riding a legal bike. What if he ran the 450 in all the moto's and not just one? Kinda low to protest another racer over something like that , in that class.
ed
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9/20/2016 9:57am
ed wrote:
Nope,,, didn't happen... I did not get in your face and tell you anything... you told me you know more about the AMA rules than I...
Nope,,, didn't happen... I did not get in your face and tell you anything... you told me you know more about the AMA rules than I will ever know and you were riding AMA races before I was born. LOL I'm 51 and started racing in 1971.
And you had never heard of supplemental rules?

Here it the simple truth.

Every event has supplemental rules that should be approved by the AMA. It is the promoter's responsibly to post such supplemental rules and have then available at each event. It is the riders responsibly to know the rules for the event he or she is riding.

In this case the rules are posted on the event/series website and are at the office of each event. You ask for said rules and had a copy handed to you on demand.
http://midamericamxseries.com/Mid_America_MX_Series_Rules.htm

If you ride a Loretta Lynn qualifier or at the national you need to read their supplemental rules that are here.
http://mxsports.com/pages/supplemental-rules

If you ride AMA D17 you need to know these rules...
http://www.amadistrict17.com/services/d-17webrulebook.htm

If you ride AMA D18 you need to know these rules...
http://district18racing.net/uploads/3/4/8/8/34884905/d18_supplemental_r…

Those rules can also be added to by what venue your at... Yes each track may also have supplemental rules...

If you want any more info please contact me at ed@lachanceracing.com or look up my phone number on the AMA website.

...........
Ed LaChance
Mid America Series AMA official
AMA Congressman
AMA Motocross rules Committee Member
AMA General Rules Committee Member
racer369 wrote:
First Ed. I did NOT say it was you that got in my face. So are you calling me a liar? YOU were RIDING in the...
First Ed. I did NOT say it was you that got in my face. So are you calling me a liar? YOU were RIDING in the same moto. It was a guy wearing a Yamaha blue team shirt. He was one of your crew! I repeat. I didn't say it was you!

Second, Why do we have rules if they can be bent, changed or ignored at the will of the promoter?

Last. I did not mention your name or series in my question. Just asked a question.
TeamGreen wrote:
"A rider may ride a different bike in the second moto than they rode in the first moto with prior approval of MAMS officials. It is...
"A rider may ride a different bike in the second moto than they rode in the first moto with prior approval of MAMS officials. It is the riders responsibility to make sure any such changes (rider number) are reported to the starter, office, and score keepers. The number on the rider and bike must match."

That was actually posted BEFORE your latest angst toward "Ed" & seems it's not that unusual FOR AGE CLASS RACING.

Interesting....wonder if I can do this in Over 50 at Mammoth...?
450 in the morning and 350 on the afternoon....hmmmmmm?
I'm not shy and don't mind explaining why we do things the way we do to anyone so I thought if you where asking a question you might as well have the person answer you that you should have addressed the question to in the first place.

Kenny Hulsey, Tom Widman, Teresa Swinney,(the woman that handed you the rules you requested), and myself are all members of the Mid America crew that have class B motocross referee training. Teresa, Tom and myself are also members of AMA Congress and will be heading out to AMA headquarters in a few weeks to review and vote on rule changes that will go into effect over the next two years.

The person you said got in your face was Kenny. He was the referee at that event (if you would have been at the mandatory riders meeting you would have known that) and I guess he did get "in your face". But only because you where talking to him with your helmet on and your bike running. You made your post sound like he got all up in your face as a threat... when he was trying to hear what you said and making sure you could hear him.
Any time your talking about one of my crew I take total responsibility for their actions so anytime I talk about them I will do it in first person.

There is no way you could have one set of rules that can cover every event throughout the United states. People just do things different in different areas. So supplemental rules allows the motocross racing community flexibility without being micromanaged by the AMA. Supplemental rules should be approved by the AMA and they do NOT approve all supplemental rules. If a rule is not covered in the supplemental rules for an event the AMA rules apply.
ed
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US
9/20/2016 10:10am
MarkF wrote:
Racer369, You are the one that said rules are rules. The rules clearly state that you can ride a different bike in the second moto. Obviously...
Racer369,

You are the one that said rules are rules. The rules clearly state that you can ride a different bike in the second moto. Obviously you didn't know the rules. The official showed you the rules that were posted before the event. End of story.
racer369 wrote:
Sorry dude. the official did not show me the rules. Like I said I just asked a question. Apparently it got a bunch of panties in...
Sorry dude. the official did not show me the rules. Like I said I just asked a question. Apparently it got a bunch of panties in a wad.
jeffro503 wrote:
It sounded like your panties got all wadded for complaining about this in the first place. Calling out on the rule book because a guys switched...
It sounded like your panties got all wadded for complaining about this in the first place. Calling out on the rule book because a guys switched bikes ( Different size , but still legal )....and you said you would just boycott any future races with that promoter. It's an age bracket race for Christ's sake! Who the hell cares what others are running? You protested another rider , for riding a legal bike. What if he ran the 450 in all the moto's and not just one? Kinda low to protest another racer over something like that , in that class.
Ummmm,, I think we handed you the rules at the event so when you posted that rules are rules and should be followed,, you had all of the rules.

And then your going to boycott the promoter that knows the rules and follows them????
9/20/2016 1:06pm
I guess he told you racer369. Pinch




JBlain619
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9/20/2016 1:11pm
ed wrote:
I'm not shy and don't mind explaining why we do things the way we do to anyone so I thought if you where asking a question...
I'm not shy and don't mind explaining why we do things the way we do to anyone so I thought if you where asking a question you might as well have the person answer you that you should have addressed the question to in the first place.

Kenny Hulsey, Tom Widman, Teresa Swinney,(the woman that handed you the rules you requested), and myself are all members of the Mid America crew that have class B motocross referee training. Teresa, Tom and myself are also members of AMA Congress and will be heading out to AMA headquarters in a few weeks to review and vote on rule changes that will go into effect over the next two years.

The person you said got in your face was Kenny. He was the referee at that event (if you would have been at the mandatory riders meeting you would have known that) and I guess he did get "in your face". But only because you where talking to him with your helmet on and your bike running. You made your post sound like he got all up in your face as a threat... when he was trying to hear what you said and making sure you could hear him.
Any time your talking about one of my crew I take total responsibility for their actions so anytime I talk about them I will do it in first person.

There is no way you could have one set of rules that can cover every event throughout the United states. People just do things different in different areas. So supplemental rules allows the motocross racing community flexibility without being micromanaged by the AMA. Supplemental rules should be approved by the AMA and they do NOT approve all supplemental rules. If a rule is not covered in the supplemental rules for an event the AMA rules apply.
Being an AMA life member and racing for the better part of 30+ years, I have never, ever heard of it being legal to change bikes in between moto's. Especially a change in the size (CC's) of the bike. If this was as the OP suggested, a change because the rider in question got smoked the first moto. Then common sense must prevail and the request be denied. I understand a legitimate reason as in the case of a mechanical issue with the bike.

Now with that being said, Ed is completely right here. If there are "supplemental rules" for this series/event, then it is up to the rider to ask for and adhere to the supplemental rules. His point to being at the rider's meeting was the best yet. This is the time to ask the questions if there are any, pertaining to the event.
ed
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US
9/20/2016 4:20pm
JBlain619 wrote:
Being an AMA life member and racing for the better part of 30+ years, I have never, ever heard of it being legal to change bikes...
Being an AMA life member and racing for the better part of 30+ years, I have never, ever heard of it being legal to change bikes in between moto's. Especially a change in the size (CC's) of the bike. If this was as the OP suggested, a change because the rider in question got smoked the first moto. Then common sense must prevail and the request be denied. I understand a legitimate reason as in the case of a mechanical issue with the bike.

Now with that being said, Ed is completely right here. If there are "supplemental rules" for this series/event, then it is up to the rider to ask for and adhere to the supplemental rules. His point to being at the rider's meeting was the best yet. This is the time to ask the questions if there are any, pertaining to the event.
Your exactly right but times change. The reason for the one bike rule is/was to keep the factory rider from having 12 bikes to choose form before each moto.

Now days there are a lot less races than ever before and as far as a series goes, if a family spends all of their time and money coming to our events it was always hart breaking seeing them break down, missing their last throw-out and their year was over and the big year end banquet lost.

We thought it better on a local level to promote the sportsman angle. We hope this makes motocross more of a family sport where it is "cool" to help your competition and beat them on the track if you can. Not be glad when they break down and you win by default.

This and a few other supplemental rules of ours seem to have been working. Our numbers are up and most of the new riders are youth riders. Finally bringing new people into or back into this sport.
JBlain619
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9/21/2016 7:50am
ed wrote:
Your exactly right but times change. The reason for the one bike rule is/was to keep the factory rider from having 12 bikes to choose form...
Your exactly right but times change. The reason for the one bike rule is/was to keep the factory rider from having 12 bikes to choose form before each moto.

Now days there are a lot less races than ever before and as far as a series goes, if a family spends all of their time and money coming to our events it was always hart breaking seeing them break down, missing their last throw-out and their year was over and the big year end banquet lost.

We thought it better on a local level to promote the sportsman angle. We hope this makes motocross more of a family sport where it is "cool" to help your competition and beat them on the track if you can. Not be glad when they break down and you win by default.

This and a few other supplemental rules of ours seem to have been working. Our numbers are up and most of the new riders are youth riders. Finally bringing new people into or back into this sport.
Makes sense...nice forethought of the riders and making rules to try to increase participation. Kudos Ed!

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