Why don't the Japanese make serious Dual Sports like KTM?

wfo4ever
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wfo4ever
Edited Date/Time 9/18/2016 12:46pm
I keep hoping each year the Japanese manufactures will produce some real dual sport bikes like KTM? But all they do is BNG on the same old models. Just curious if anyone has info why they don't.
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hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 9/18/2016 12:56pm
9/18/2016 12:56pm
Mowers, generators, ships, outboards, weed eaters, saxophones, pianos, keyboards, quads, UTVs
Katoomey
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Katoomey 9/18/2016 12:59pm
9/18/2016 12:59pm Edited Date/Time 9/18/2016 12:59pm
wfo4ever wrote:
I keep hoping each year the Japanese manufactures will produce some real dual sport bikes like KTM? But all they do is BNG on the same...
I keep hoping each year the Japanese manufactures will produce some real dual sport bikes like KTM? But all they do is BNG on the same old models. Just curious if anyone has info why they don't.
Because BNG are cheap.

Underpants gnome business plan:

Step 1. Steal underpants
Step 2. ??????????
Step 3. Profit
Skidaddle
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Skidaddle 9/18/2016 1:00pm
9/18/2016 1:00pm
They dont want your money. Thats why mine is an old KTM also.

Although I'd look at a few Husky, Beta, TM options now.

My next will be a 2 stroke plated. Probably a 300 Beta with oil injection. Ive seen a few around in dual sport and Supertard trim but with plates from other states. I immediately got the " I need that" feeling.
Dirty Points 9/18/2016 1:01pm
9/18/2016 1:01pm Edited Date/Time 9/18/2016 1:06pm
Tiny niche category with very strict regional emissions standards to chase. Probably better for more agile companies with less global focus.

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Katoomey
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Katoomey 9/18/2016 1:02pm
9/18/2016 1:02pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Tiny niche category with very strict regional emissions standards to chase. Probably better for more agile companies with less global focus.
...nail on the head
Drtbykr
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Drtbykr 9/18/2016 1:13pm
9/18/2016 1:13pm
Lawyers and accountants, but mostly lawyers is my guess.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 9/18/2016 1:57pm
9/18/2016 1:57pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Tiny niche category with very strict regional emissions standards to chase. Probably better for more agile companies with less global focus.
this!!! quite simple really
Skidaddle
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Skidaddle 9/18/2016 2:21pm
9/18/2016 2:21pm
A few local dealers told me thats why some come with "race kits" which is basically emissions delete.
Suzuki has the 400...but you have to uncork it yourself with carb, air box and pipe mods.

That new Off Road Yamaha could have potential in easy to plate states.
IMO, the WR 250 is too weak for any real road use. Same for the KTM 350.

Great in town, but on the open road not so much.
wfo4ever
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wfo4ever 9/18/2016 2:40pm
9/18/2016 2:40pm
The Honda XR-650L is the same bike since 1993, but it is so heavy at 346 lbs. I had a 1986 Honda XL-600R, it was a great bike, I wish I never sold it. It was a blast to ride, front wheel was never on the ground much, great for around town and it was not too bad for light trail riding. I did quite a few modifications to the suspension and engine. It would top out at 100 mph with my street gearing set up. And I would change the gearing for trail riding. I put 20,000 miles on it and always changed the oil, cleaned the air filter, and changed a few spark plugs as needed. I also adjusted the valves a few times, it was a very dependable motorcycle.
Mutley531
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Mutley531 9/18/2016 4:13pm
9/18/2016 4:13pm
Emissions. I read (wish I could remember where) that a Yamaha rep stated that they were unable to get a YZF tuned motor to meet emission standards. The units must meet standards when sold as new, then again after 10,000? miles. They can pass when new, but not after so many miles (motor un-touched). He stated that they didn't know how KTM was able to do it.

The testing is done by the manufacturer, not the EPA, so there is always the possibility of fudging the tests and hoping to never get caught.
resetjet
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resetjet 9/18/2016 4:28pm
9/18/2016 4:28pm
Different import standards from europe then japan. Now that europe is going e4 it will balance out.
BobPA
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BobPA 9/18/2016 6:39pm
9/18/2016 6:39pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Tiny niche category with very strict regional emissions standards to chase. Probably better for more agile companies with less global focus.
kiwifan wrote:
this!!! quite simple really
It is like clockwork that kiwifan will casually shit in KTM thread.

What facts do you have proving this is why Japan does not produce a dual sport bike?
kiwifan
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kiwifan 9/18/2016 6:50pm
9/18/2016 6:50pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Tiny niche category with very strict regional emissions standards to chase. Probably better for more agile companies with less global focus.
kiwifan wrote:
this!!! quite simple really
BobPA wrote:
It is like clockwork that kiwifan will casually shit in KTM thread. What facts do you have proving this is why Japan does not produce a...
It is like clockwork that kiwifan will casually shit in KTM thread.

What facts do you have proving this is why Japan does not produce a dual sport bike?
yeah lets make the thread about me... FFS ...all I was doing was agreeing wit the post that that is the reason why they dont make so many dual porupose bikes compared to KTM...Its just opinions man, stop taking it so damn personally. If you want to be picky then ask the person who posted the original reason not me...ok?
kkawboy14
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kkawboy14 9/18/2016 8:54pm
9/18/2016 8:54pm
Dirty Points wrote:
Tiny niche category with very strict regional emissions standards to chase. Probably better for more agile companies with less global focus.
Katoomey wrote:
...nail on the head
Yep
VRR7
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VRR7 9/19/2016 6:22am
9/19/2016 6:22am
The Africa Twin was discontinued because of emissions controls - The new Africa Twin is a very big seller
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VRR7 9/19/2016 6:24am
9/19/2016 6:24am
Australia 2016 Motorcycle Sales Figures – First Quarter

Honda’s new Africa Twin shot straight to the top of the adventure category charts.

Total Market Figures

The total market between January and March 2016 was 24,994.

Of these, 11,576 road bikes were sold in the first quarter of 2016 which represented just over 46 per cent of the total motorcycle, all-terrain vehicle (ATV) and scooter market.

Honda was the leading volume manufacturer with 5,512 units sold, or 22.1 per cent of the total market.
Honda had it’s best March sales figures ever (it looks as though Australia Post took a large delivery of NBC110)
Honda was followed by Yamaha with 4,995 units (20 per cent market share).
Kawasaki with 2,684 units (10.7 per cent market share).
Suzuki with 2,395 (9.6 per cent market share).
Harley Davidson with 2,286 (9.1 per cent market share).


Yamaha led the volume race in the off-road motorcycle market with 29.1 per cent of the total sales of 7,832. Yamaha was followed by Honda with 23.4 per cent of sales and KTM was third, selling 17 per cent.


Kawi4life
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Kawi4life 9/19/2016 9:08am
9/19/2016 9:08am
I was wondering the same thing. I gotta laugh at all the dealers with full stock of MX bikes that no one wants in my area and even had a dealer tell me he didn't even want to sell MX bikes but had to take stock to be a dealer of the brand he was selling and here I am willing to spend 10k on a "serious dual sport" like the KTM but can't find one.... Hmmm.

See what it is with so many of the old riding areas long gone I can't justify the price of a off-road only machine, even if it was given to me for free, I don't have the time to load up and drive hours to a MX track and back. On my only two days off work I have lots of personal chores to do so a road legal MX bike would open up a totally new world of usability for me. I don't generally like road bikes, not my style, but the thought of riding a MX bike legally on road puts a smile on my face! And there's trails I would be able to ride to on road from where I live but wouldn't have a place to park my truck if I had to load up and truck it if you know what I mean.

I would kill for a street legal KX450f.... Emissions? Are you fucking kidding me? How much emissions does a little single cylinder dirt bike put out compared to a multi-piston diesel tractor and trailer? Yea, that's what I thought.... And as far as KTM/Husky, read through my thread.... they're a smaller company with limit dealers/stock and are very hard to come by. I've bent over backwards trying to find one to no avail. I don't think I've ever tried so hard to find a item for sale in my life!
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 9/19/2016 9:43am
9/19/2016 9:43am
Dirty Points wrote:
Tiny niche category with very strict regional emissions standards to chase. Probably better for more agile companies with less global focus.
kiwifan wrote:
this!!! quite simple really
BobPA wrote:
It is like clockwork that kiwifan will casually shit in KTM thread. What facts do you have proving this is why Japan does not produce a...
It is like clockwork that kiwifan will casually shit in KTM thread.

What facts do you have proving this is why Japan does not produce a dual sport bike?
Oh the irony. If he's the bell you're the dog . . .

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Falcon
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Falcon 9/19/2016 9:51am
9/19/2016 9:51am
Kawi4life, I bet that KX450F does in fact put out more emissions than a multi-cylinder diesel tractor and trailer... per cc.

There are lots of nice Japanese models all over the world that cannot come here thanks to emissions. The Japanese OEMs don't think they can sell enough of them to warrant making all the necessary changes to meet CARB standards.
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JAFO92 9/19/2016 9:57am
9/19/2016 9:57am
Dont know if its true, but Ive read there are more DRZ-400s out there worldwide than all the other brands of dual-sports combined.

The bike is an overweight pig, but its pretty reliable.
Kawi4life
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Kawi4life 9/19/2016 10:19am
9/19/2016 10:19am
DRZ-400...lol... You'd have to pay me a million dollars to ride that piece of crap!
kijen
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kijen 9/19/2016 10:29am
9/19/2016 10:29am
got lucky... FL DMV issued me a license plate for my 2013 RMZ450, just need a Baja kit and I'm good to go.....except there are not many if any trails where I live in FL....
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billyslap 9/19/2016 10:42am
9/19/2016 10:42am
wfo4ever wrote:
The Honda XR-650L is the same bike since 1993, but it is so heavy at 346 lbs. I had a 1986 Honda XL-600R, it was a...
The Honda XR-650L is the same bike since 1993, but it is so heavy at 346 lbs. I had a 1986 Honda XL-600R, it was a great bike, I wish I never sold it. It was a blast to ride, front wheel was never on the ground much, great for around town and it was not too bad for light trail riding. I did quite a few modifications to the suspension and engine. It would top out at 100 mph with my street gearing set up. And I would change the gearing for trail riding. I put 20,000 miles on it and always changed the oil, cleaned the air filter, and changed a few spark plugs as needed. I also adjusted the valves a few times, it was a very dependable motorcycle.
I wish they would update this bike in a new frame but keep the air cooled bullet proof motor. Just add a kickstarter.

I'd be in.

I want the old bulletproof motor with modern styling.
EastFlorida
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EastFlorida 9/19/2016 11:19am
9/19/2016 11:19am
kijen wrote:
got lucky... FL DMV issued me a license plate for my 2013 RMZ450, just need a Baja kit and I'm good to go.....except there are not...
got lucky... FL DMV issued me a license plate for my 2013 RMZ450, just need a Baja kit and I'm good to go.....except there are not many if any trails where I live in FL....
There are several ADV rides in FL! My club plans to put one on during bike week and there are others. Look them up on Facebook or join FTR...
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dkg 9/19/2016 11:37am
9/19/2016 11:37am
Kawi4Life wrote:

I would kill for a street legal KX450f.... Emissions? Are you fucking kidding me? How much emissions does a little single cylinder dirt bike put out compared to a multi-piston diesel tractor and trailer? Yea, that's what I thought....


They have even paid money to determine the emissions from cows. Not kidding you.
wfo4ever
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wfo4ever 9/19/2016 12:56pm
9/19/2016 12:56pm
billyslap wrote:
I wish they would update this bike in a new frame but keep the air cooled bullet proof motor. Just add a kickstarter. I'd be in...
I wish they would update this bike in a new frame but keep the air cooled bullet proof motor. Just add a kickstarter.

I'd be in.

I want the old bulletproof motor with modern styling.
I wish Honda would do that. I agree with you that would be a bike I would buy as long as it was not as heavy as a street bike. You would think Honda could figure it out, they would sell a lot of them. I love that air cooled engine, it is so reliable and low maintenance.
Steadman
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Steadman 9/19/2016 1:04pm
9/19/2016 1:04pm Edited Date/Time 9/19/2016 1:06pm
Mutley531 wrote:
Emissions. I read (wish I could remember where) that a Yamaha rep stated that they were unable to get a YZF tuned motor to meet emission...
Emissions. I read (wish I could remember where) that a Yamaha rep stated that they were unable to get a YZF tuned motor to meet emission standards. The units must meet standards when sold as new, then again after 10,000? miles. They can pass when new, but not after so many miles (motor un-touched). He stated that they didn't know how KTM was able to do it.

The testing is done by the manufacturer, not the EPA, so there is always the possibility of fudging the tests and hoping to never get caught.
This. I read that article as well. The Japanese would never take that risk. If companies like KTM were ever caught they would be on deep doo-doo.
GoldenState54 9/19/2016 1:28pm
9/19/2016 1:28pm
I got my eye on the new Yamaha Tenere 700 that's in the works.

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