Oh yes he did - KR air forks

PTECH
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PTECH 7/9/2016 6:03pm
7/9/2016 6:03pm Edited Date/Time 7/9/2016 6:06pm
kevin204 wrote:
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to...
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to road racing levels of importance on setup, that's what happens with how good the riders and bikes are today. But everyone still has a prehistoric mindset of "95% rider, 5% bike".
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and I couldn't run eli's pace comfortably." If he said that I wouldn't have thought anything. Instead he cried about being only of the only guys on air forks and how they got worse as the moto went on, using the technology of his bike as an excuse for him not winning. In my opinion that's pretty lame. You wont hear a basketball player blame his nikes for him having a bad game. "Yeah my Jordan air force 12's started to loose bounciness as the game went on...."
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Underground 7/9/2016 6:05pm
7/9/2016 6:05pm
Beast666 wrote:
Not to be a prick but technically all spring forks are hybrid air forks the chamber that the spring is in has ail and air in...
Not to be a prick but technically all spring forks are hybrid air forks the chamber that the spring is in has ail and air in it. Increase the oil level and you reduce the air volume giving you the effect of a stiffer spring rate. Reduce the oil level and it degreases the spring rate ta the end of the stroke. A rider could fit a Schrader valve to a spring fork and you could further fine tune your forks.
ML512 wrote:
Correct, you could technically turn a spring fork into an air supported system. I'm just using the hybrid term, to describe this new system that is...
Correct, you could technically turn a spring fork into an air supported system. I'm just using the hybrid term, to describe this new system that is designed to be used in that manner.
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary spring? You get the feel of a steel spring with half the weight?
Underground
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Underground 7/9/2016 6:08pm
7/9/2016 6:08pm
kevin204 wrote:
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to...
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to road racing levels of importance on setup, that's what happens with how good the riders and bikes are today. But everyone still has a prehistoric mindset of "95% rider, 5% bike".
PTECH wrote:
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and...
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and I couldn't run eli's pace comfortably." If he said that I wouldn't have thought anything. Instead he cried about being only of the only guys on air forks and how they got worse as the moto went on, using the technology of his bike as an excuse for him not winning. In my opinion that's pretty lame. You wont hear a basketball player blame his nikes for him having a bad game. "Yeah my Jordan air force 12's started to loose bounciness as the game went on...."
Your having quite a winge about kenny's winge. Isn't that the same?
PTECH
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PTECH 7/9/2016 6:15pm
7/9/2016 6:15pm
kevin204 wrote:
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to...
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to road racing levels of importance on setup, that's what happens with how good the riders and bikes are today. But everyone still has a prehistoric mindset of "95% rider, 5% bike".
PTECH wrote:
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and...
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and I couldn't run eli's pace comfortably." If he said that I wouldn't have thought anything. Instead he cried about being only of the only guys on air forks and how they got worse as the moto went on, using the technology of his bike as an excuse for him not winning. In my opinion that's pretty lame. You wont hear a basketball player blame his nikes for him having a bad game. "Yeah my Jordan air force 12's started to loose bounciness as the game went on...."
Underground wrote:
Your having quite a winge about kenny's winge. Isn't that the same?
I'm bored on a Saturday afternoon and hanging around the forums. I just think its funny he specifically complained about being on air forks. If you were racing a buddy and you won and he started giving a lame ass reason why you beat him, you wouldn't give him some shit!?

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kiwifan
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kiwifan 7/9/2016 6:25pm
7/9/2016 6:25pm
kevin204 wrote:
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to...
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to road racing levels of importance on setup, that's what happens with how good the riders and bikes are today. But everyone still has a prehistoric mindset of "95% rider, 5% bike".
PTECH wrote:
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and...
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and I couldn't run eli's pace comfortably." If he said that I wouldn't have thought anything. Instead he cried about being only of the only guys on air forks and how they got worse as the moto went on, using the technology of his bike as an excuse for him not winning. In my opinion that's pretty lame. You wont hear a basketball player blame his nikes for him having a bad game. "Yeah my Jordan air force 12's started to loose bounciness as the game went on...."
Poking fun at? To say they lame is a little more than poking fun at

Anyway...I think you and other here are reading way too much into what he said, what is the point in almost dissecting every word to make it into what you think he meant?

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Underground 7/9/2016 6:38pm
7/9/2016 6:38pm
Beast666 wrote:
Not to be a prick but technically all spring forks are hybrid air forks the chamber that the spring is in has ail and air in...
Not to be a prick but technically all spring forks are hybrid air forks the chamber that the spring is in has ail and air in it. Increase the oil level and you reduce the air volume giving you the effect of a stiffer spring rate. Reduce the oil level and it degreases the spring rate ta the end of the stroke. A rider could fit a Schrader valve to a spring fork and you could further fine tune your forks.
ML512 wrote:
Correct, you could technically turn a spring fork into an air supported system. I'm just using the hybrid term, to describe this new system that is...
Correct, you could technically turn a spring fork into an air supported system. I'm just using the hybrid term, to describe this new system that is designed to be used in that manner.
Underground wrote:
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary...
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary spring? You get the feel of a steel spring with half the weight?
Perhaps a little like the BPF
yak651
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yak651 7/9/2016 6:40pm
7/9/2016 6:40pm
He's basically won everything since the outdoors starting and he sits there blaming his air forks and looking like someone just kicked his dog. Man, A-mart didn't look that dejected or place blame when his bike crapped out on him while running up front...
wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 7/9/2016 6:55pm
7/9/2016 6:55pm
Radman66 wrote:
RC never blamed bike set up, illness or any other type of excuse when James would beat him. He credited James and used it as fuel...
RC never blamed bike set up, illness or any other type of excuse when James would beat him. He credited James and used it as fuel to whoop his ass next race... And he did it well. RC is a well respected champion, even in defeat. Be more like RC.
Exactly....
Underground
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Underground 7/9/2016 7:02pm
7/9/2016 7:02pm
Or

Another GuzziTech exclusive… This proven air cartridge assist and spring kit offers unrivaled street performance. The best bump absorption and progressive rate action available. Adjustable by air (via simple fork pump) for weight and desired function.
Bruce372
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Bruce372 7/9/2016 7:26pm
7/9/2016 7:26pm
Bruce372 wrote:
Hey ml512, any pics of that hybrid fork??? Which side are they running the spring? It must be a weird setup since both the damping and...
Hey ml512, any pics of that hybrid fork???

Which side are they running the spring? It must be a weird setup since both the damping and air cartridge are massive....does the spring slide over the cartridge??
ML512 wrote:
No photos... Sorry! I barely got the info that I have... I actually don't know for sure which side the mechanical spring is on... I've thought...
No photos... Sorry! I barely got the info that I have...

I actually don't know for sure which side the mechanical spring is on... I've thought about it...

If damping is on the right and air spring on the left, it could be advantageous to have the mechanical spring on the right side with the damping, so each leg has some sort of spring force in it. But, the overall size of the large damping cartridge could be a pain when sourcing springs... But if you ran a short enough spring with a spring perch on the cartridge, it wouldn't even be a problem at that point...

I'm not sure if a spring would fit inside if you're dealing with an internal TAC fork, where the negative third chamber is inside the fork in the bottom... So I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say it's on the damping side...

Another bonus to running some sort of mechanical spring inside is using a spring tube or spring perch in that fork leg to create secondary speed sensitive damping forces with oil flow/restriction.
Yeah, it's quite interesting how they might have set them up. Since the forKS have the solid axle, it shouldn't matter which fork has which function, but one might imagine it would be good to have each fork with similar weight.???

Maybe they don't even have a spring, they are just telling the rider they do to make them feel warm and fuzzy.
Coyote
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Coyote 7/9/2016 7:27pm
7/9/2016 7:27pm
just so we're clear, the same barcia that was a minute behind??
ML512
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ML512 7/9/2016 7:36pm
7/9/2016 7:36pm
Underground wrote:
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary...
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary spring? You get the feel of a steel spring with half the weight?
By stacked, do you mean air and spring in both legs?
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Joko 7/9/2016 7:46pm
7/9/2016 7:46pm
Underground wrote:
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary...
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary spring? You get the feel of a steel spring with half the weight?
ML512 wrote:
By stacked, do you mean air and spring in both legs?
Are the Yamaha KYB AOSS forks 48mm or 49mm legs?
PTECH
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PTECH 7/9/2016 8:00pm
7/9/2016 8:00pm
kevin204 wrote:
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to...
It's funny that moto fans are stuck in the stone age when it comes to how much bike setup matters. We're getting closer and closer to road racing levels of importance on setup, that's what happens with how good the riders and bikes are today. But everyone still has a prehistoric mindset of "95% rider, 5% bike".
PTECH wrote:
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and...
See that's what made his comments worth poking fun at in my opinion. He didn't say "our suspension setup was a little off that moto and I couldn't run eli's pace comfortably." If he said that I wouldn't have thought anything. Instead he cried about being only of the only guys on air forks and how they got worse as the moto went on, using the technology of his bike as an excuse for him not winning. In my opinion that's pretty lame. You wont hear a basketball player blame his nikes for him having a bad game. "Yeah my Jordan air force 12's started to loose bounciness as the game went on...."
kiwifan wrote:
Poking fun at? To say they lame is a little more than poking fun at Anyway...I think you and other here are reading way too much...
Poking fun at? To say they lame is a little more than poking fun at

Anyway...I think you and other here are reading way too much into what he said, what is the point in almost dissecting every word to make it into what you think he meant?

You're right, its way more than 'poking fun" at him, I was a little too extreme when I said it was lame. I was way overboard. I shouldn't be so hard on him. Whistling

I dont think were dissecting or reading too much into what he said. He said exactly that "hes one of the only ones on air forks, they got worse and worse as the moto went on and it cost him." He said those exact phrases on the podium, go back and watch the interview for yourself.
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Beast666 7/9/2016 8:16pm
7/9/2016 8:16pm
Underground wrote:
Perhaps a little like the BPF [img]http://www.fastdates.com/PLN.NewBikes/Kawasaki/2011Kawasaki/11ZX10.FBPF.jpg[/img]
Perhaps a little like the BPF
Something doesn't add up on that diagram. A piston diameter of 12.3cm is almost 5". The cartridge fork piston sounds about correct for most modern forks with the innertube diameter of 48 or 49mm
drumheller34 7/9/2016 8:28pm
7/9/2016 8:28pm
Harry Backmon wrote:
I could tell his forks were an issue. They were deflecting all over the place. If you didn't see it...pay closer attention.
PTECH wrote:
Hell even my wife (and shes a dumb as a brick) could tell it was an issue!
Bruce372 wrote:
Dumb as a brick....well, she married you lol
I think you mean "a dumb as a brick" Laughing
brimx153
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brimx153 7/9/2016 8:46pm
7/9/2016 8:46pm
Did his AIR FORKS make him take two terrible lines .One inside and one outside ,Were Tomac made huge ground each lap.That is what lost him the race nothing else. In fact in the second race near the end of the race ,KROC bike looked on rails compaired to Tomac who was all over the place . But still riding at 110 %
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brimx153 7/9/2016 8:49pm
7/9/2016 8:49pm
Bruneval wrote:
Just bashed them hard: "got worse and worse as Moto went on".
Bruce372 wrote:
There is no point trying to use reason and logic mate, many people want air forks to fail since they can't get past the dogma of...
There is no point trying to use reason and logic mate, many people want air forks to fail since they can't get past the dogma of the only solution to a problem they can think of.
kiwifan wrote:
this.....if there was something wrong with his forks then why should he not say there was...why the heck cant he? honestly, the vital police really think...
this.....if there was something wrong with his forks then why should he not say there was...why the heck cant he?

honestly, the vital police really think they would make great rider/team managers

KR had a bad day, he had trouble with his forks, thats why he didnt win, lets move on now eh?
sorry i call bull on that . he had a good day he went 2 ,2 . its not like he got beat by a crap rider . Tomac was just riding great today .

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Bruneval
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Bruneval 7/9/2016 8:55pm
7/9/2016 8:55pm
mw43 wrote:
So many arm chair experts and trolls LMFAO. His comment was he started good and the shocks got bad over time - an observation for fading...
So many arm chair experts and trolls LMFAO. His comment was he started good and the shocks got bad over time - an observation for fading off the start. Funny thing is in most every podium interview for the big guns coming in 2nd and 3rd this year have been how their bike is not setup right to keep up with Kenny. Kenny and Tomac are way ahead of the rest of the field this year... To the OP and other people posting some of these comments - think about it, why you wrote what you wrote, why you feel that way, the trolls, etc. You feel good? Makes you strong? What is it? I think you are a tool...
Read what I posted and you will realise there is nothing more than the literal sound bite which I find surprising, and still do as it's fairly unusual to hear direct criticism of the technology like that. For what it's worth, I quite like it and find the opinions when delivered like that much more interesting than the typical 'my setting is off'. I remain a huge KR fan.

If you want to take it personal, and ask what makes me feel good or strong, I will do as you have done and assume you're clearly the troll in this instance.
Underground
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Underground 7/9/2016 9:08pm
7/9/2016 9:08pm
Underground wrote:
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary...
Could the hybrid system be stacked? a bit like the old twin shocks where people would run a longer main spring with a shorter heavier secondary spring? You get the feel of a steel spring with half the weight?
ML512 wrote:
By stacked, do you mean air and spring in both legs?
Yeah. like the Guzzi ones I've found so it isn't something new obviously. Also common in MTB/DH
ML512
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ML512 7/9/2016 9:27pm
7/9/2016 9:27pm
Underground wrote:
Yeah. like the Guzzi ones I've found so it isn't something new obviously. Also common in MTB/DH
Well the system Showa is using wouldn't be stackable in each leg, as the inner air chamber on the spring leg, takes up the area that the damping rod and oil in the damper leg use. A more simple system could work... like the KYB PSF1 but with a spring and air charge... but then you're lose the weight-loss advantage of air forks by using springs in both forks again...
ML512
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ML512 7/9/2016 9:32pm
7/9/2016 9:32pm
Joko wrote:
Are the Yamaha KYB AOSS forks 48mm or 49mm legs?
The lower stanchions on KYB's AOSS, PSF1 and PSF2 are 48mm... With AOSS and PSF1 that's counting both the production, kit, and works level stuff...

Showa's SFF TAC systems are 49mm at production, kit, and works level...
Aaryn234
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Aaryn234 7/9/2016 9:44pm
7/9/2016 9:44pm
Dam you Kenny for speaking what was exactly on your mind and not going down the politically correct boring path!

Ken felt like the bike was off due to the air fork, which has not been tested in a race situation in those exact conditions until today. Think he is in a much better position to comment on what he was feeling than anyone on here.

Looks like they went and made some changes between races and he was much better in the second half of the second race.

But yeah Kenny just hide your true emotions because people won't bag on you if you coming in with the run of the mill boring post race interview.
ML512
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ML512 7/9/2016 9:53pm
7/9/2016 9:53pm
Aaryn234 wrote:
Dam you Kenny for speaking what was exactly on your mind and not going down the politically correct boring path! Ken felt like the bike was...
Dam you Kenny for speaking what was exactly on your mind and not going down the politically correct boring path!

Ken felt like the bike was off due to the air fork, which has not been tested in a race situation in those exact conditions until today. Think he is in a much better position to comment on what he was feeling than anyone on here.

Looks like they went and made some changes between races and he was much better in the second half of the second race.

But yeah Kenny just hide your true emotions because people won't bag on you if you coming in with the run of the mill boring post race interview.
I'm not sure if you mean their exact setting in sand (which he has been on his personal sand track) or the PSF1 in general... which has been raced in both MX Nationals and the GPs in even rougher sand conditions for a few years now.
kiwifan
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kiwifan 7/9/2016 10:08pm
7/9/2016 10:08pm
brimx153 wrote:
sorry i call bull on that . he had a good day he went 2 ,2 . its not like he got beat by a crap...
sorry i call bull on that . he had a good day he went 2 ,2 . its not like he got beat by a crap rider . Tomac was just riding great today .
he had a bad day in his words.....everything else I agree with you
Aaryn234
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Aaryn234 7/9/2016 10:16pm
7/9/2016 10:16pm
Aaryn234 wrote:
Dam you Kenny for speaking what was exactly on your mind and not going down the politically correct boring path! Ken felt like the bike was...
Dam you Kenny for speaking what was exactly on your mind and not going down the politically correct boring path!

Ken felt like the bike was off due to the air fork, which has not been tested in a race situation in those exact conditions until today. Think he is in a much better position to comment on what he was feeling than anyone on here.

Looks like they went and made some changes between races and he was much better in the second half of the second race.

But yeah Kenny just hide your true emotions because people won't bag on you if you coming in with the run of the mill boring post race interview.
ML512 wrote:
I'm not sure if you mean their exact setting in sand (which he has been on his personal sand track) or the PSF1 in general... which...
I'm not sure if you mean their exact setting in sand (which he has been on his personal sand track) or the PSF1 in general... which has been raced in both MX Nationals and the GPs in even rougher sand conditions for a few years now.
Yes but as we heard Langston and Weige say 2 million times today, Southwick is hybrid mix, not really a sand track.

Has the team or anyone been out to test his setting or the PSF1 in general out at Southwick before this weekend?

The conditions out there were unique. The sand Ken was riding during the week going from his video was completely different to what they were racing today.

He said at the end of moto one he had problems with his fork. They went back obviously made some changes, went back out and things improved.

Going by that it would asume it was more of a team / personal setting that was off and not the actual fork itself.

I don't understant why people have in issue with any rider speaking their mind and coming straight out with the reason "They" think hampered them in a race.

Personally think Eli would have one no matter what today, he looked the better rider on this day, but nothing wrong with Ken speaking his mind and giving us his exact thoughts just moments after the race had finished.
ML512
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ML512 7/9/2016 10:21pm
7/9/2016 10:21pm
Aaryn234 wrote:
Yes but as we heard Langston and Weige say 2 million times today, Southwick is hybrid mix, not really a sand track. Has the team or...
Yes but as we heard Langston and Weige say 2 million times today, Southwick is hybrid mix, not really a sand track.

Has the team or anyone been out to test his setting or the PSF1 in general out at Southwick before this weekend?

The conditions out there were unique. The sand Ken was riding during the week going from his video was completely different to what they were racing today.

He said at the end of moto one he had problems with his fork. They went back obviously made some changes, went back out and things improved.

Going by that it would asume it was more of a team / personal setting that was off and not the actual fork itself.

I don't understant why people have in issue with any rider speaking their mind and coming straight out with the reason "They" think hampered them in a race.

Personally think Eli would have one no matter what today, he looked the better rider on this day, but nothing wrong with Ken speaking his mind and giving us his exact thoughts just moments after the race had finished.
You nailed it in your end, more of a setting problem, but he acted and made it come across like more of a component problem. I also heard today that he did an interview with a German magazine where he said he was forced into using that stuff, I haven't seen the interview for myself, but if that's the case then that part isn't true.
Underground
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Underground 7/9/2016 10:32pm
7/9/2016 10:32pm
Underground wrote:
Yeah. like the Guzzi ones I've found so it isn't something new obviously. Also common in MTB/DH
ML512 wrote:
Well the system Showa is using wouldn't be stackable in each leg, as the inner air chamber on the spring leg, takes up the area that...
Well the system Showa is using wouldn't be stackable in each leg, as the inner air chamber on the spring leg, takes up the area that the damping rod and oil in the damper leg use. A more simple system could work... like the KYB PSF1 but with a spring and air charge... but then you're lose the weight-loss advantage of air forks by using springs in both forks again...
Yeah that's what I was thinking and yeah it's only going to be the air spring length lighter than the full steel SFF which is still plenty of dollars elsewhere saved. Air chamber at the top and steel at the bottom. The big benefit is perhaps the benefits of both systems with better feel and lighter weight. That Guzzi site is claiming the best bump absorption and progressive rate action available. SFF/HYBRID. Going to need longer fork legs for the decals Laughing Will be interesting what transpires.
dirtworldmx
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dirtworldmx 7/10/2016 12:31am
7/10/2016 12:31am
I predicted earlier that once Tomac gets up to speed on the Kawi, Roczen will start having "setup issues" again. Gotta love how Tomac works his ass off and makes no excuses.
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kiwifan 7/10/2016 12:46am
7/10/2016 12:46am
dirtworldmx wrote:
I predicted earlier that once Tomac gets up to speed on the Kawi, Roczen will start having "setup issues" again. Gotta love how Tomac works his...
I predicted earlier that once Tomac gets up to speed on the Kawi, Roczen will start having "setup issues" again. Gotta love how Tomac works his ass off and makes no excuses.
He normally doesnt say much, when he was on team Honda he never bagged it publicly either ....one if his traits I like, but in saying that i have no problem any rider calling what it is

Post a reply to: Oh yes he did - KR air forks