New Honda patent for CRF's

RonSkj
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Fantasy
6/10/2016 7:45pm
Need more air flow?



kiwifan
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6/10/2016 11:39pm
RonSkj wrote:
Need more air flow? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/10/138642/s1200_maxresdefault.jpg[/img]
Need more air flow?



which adds weight, the very thing they are trying to get rid of...
Bearuno
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6/11/2016 12:37am Edited Date/Time 6/11/2016 12:45am
You can be sure that Honda / Any major company (selling / making anything) apply for patents daily. From the most inane thing, through to mind blowing tech.

Most, will never be used, but, it gives them some control over things. A big thing, was 'hiding' Patents / Patent Applications, in more obscure Patent offices. Not sure that is very effective in these days of E communications. Unsure

It's a double edged sword, in that they put it out there, and it can then be changed, just enough, by others for their own uses.

In line with this fender air flow thing, I wonder if Honda patented / applied for patent (quite different things) the XR front fenders of a few decades ago - remember the ones that valenced around the fork legs? I bet they did. That's what they do, even for largely 'style' items.

A few motorcycle mag sites make a habit of showing patents that are found, by many manufacturers. Some end up being put to use.

And, a patent that gave quite a few a chuckle, that most here may know about, that had a few other manufacturers doing things to avoid it (whilst many didn't give a fuck about the patent), was the front brake hose routing that Honda had.

In the last few weeks, during a big clean up of my workshop, I came across a copy of Honda's patent, that I had stored away, for their 4 link arm driven gearbox that was on their Works DH bicycle - the RN-01. 31 pages, showing the workings to achieve, by movement of links, varying gear ratios through the changes in pivot / arm positioning and the arcs created by those changes. The European Patent Application number was : 03006371.3, dated the 20.03.2003. Another number appearing at the top of the application is EP 1 366 978 A1.

What better 'real world' way to try the workings of a gearbox system than driving it with the human body? Any drag, bad shifting, power loss, would be felt / gauged , in a high torque, bugger all revs testing that is a pedaling human being. CAD / Computer testing is all well and good, but actual use will always be a key part of the process, especially when it's human powered.

That gearbox, was replaced by an (upside down) derailleur and cluster set up, inside a same looking 'shell'. You can find drawings of that as well.
Arni
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6/11/2016 12:55am
Just found video of secret testings of new starter for 2018. Cutting weight and stuff.

The Shop

Beast666
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6/11/2016 12:34pm
If honda wants better air flow to the radiators they could just use the ftont number plates off of a 1981 CR450R Laughing



tek14
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6/11/2016 1:16pm
Beast666 wrote:
If honda wants better air flow to the radiators they could just use the ftont number plates off of a 1981 CR450R :laugh: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/11/138714/s1200_cr450.jpg[/img]
If honda wants better air flow to the radiators they could just use the ftont number plates off of a 1981 CR450R Laughing



Using whole CR450R 1981 version they won't even need heavy radiators and will get rusted steel frames with spring forks for Roczen!
Beast666
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6/11/2016 3:30pm
Beast666 wrote:
If honda wants better air flow to the radiators they could just use the ftont number plates off of a 1981 CR450R :laugh: [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/06/11/138714/s1200_cr450.jpg[/img]
If honda wants better air flow to the radiators they could just use the ftont number plates off of a 1981 CR450R Laughing



tek14 wrote:
Using whole CR450R 1981 version they won't even need heavy radiators and will get rusted steel frames with spring forks for Roczen!
If Honda brought back the 81 CR450 the horsepower would be the same of the current 450F Just would love to see KRoc dive into a corner with those drum brakes LOL He would call up Hart and RC saying take me back I fucked up big time.
wwoberg
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6/11/2016 3:48pm
For me at least, a Mechanical Engineer who works in a technical field, it just solidifies what I have always believed and told my friends. Buy OEM stuff. They have done the research and have the budget to make the best of the best. A lot of manhours went into that document. Don't think for a minute someone can do better.

When I use to ride 2 strokes, I use to buy Pennzoil prefix. Simply for the same reason
Katoomey
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6/11/2016 8:18pm
TailSoHard wrote:
MY post of the patent? You mean the part where I copied and pasted from the article in the link in order to save people time...
MY post of the patent? You mean the part where I copied and pasted from the article in the link in order to save people time from having to read through the whole thing?

I don't understand your argument there, but whatever...

EDIT: You edited that part so we're all good now lol

You said "Do you think Honda puts marketing/trademark/official literature graphical designs on their drawings they submit to the patent office?"

Yes. They do. That's what a patent is. You can't apply for a patent for a product like this without photos/diagrams/schematics that happen to be proprietary. You can't simply describe the patent with words alone. You need to show what you're making.

Now, if you meant to convey that the bike in the photo might not actually be the bike that the fender will show up on, then you need to re-word your thoughts before typing them out so that this confusion doesn't happen again. What you typed and what you meant ended up being two different things. Maybe others read it differently but I took it to mean that you believed that Honda would refrain from using ANY diagrams in their patent apps in order to keep an element of secrecy. Which is ludicrous. And why I said "you obviously have no idea how patents work."

So if I misunderstood your post, I apologize. But hopefully you can see where my confusion is coming from.
No. They dont!

Again, text discriptions, technical drawings, and schematics are not the same thing as trademarked signage, labeling, and graphical designs.

Maybe you didnt click the link in the original post. It had CRF graphics layered over the patent submission. Of course there will be text in a patent submission, and the name of the company, but there will never be trademarked graphical design, especially from a specific model, or anything else linking that technology to a specific model. And whatever drawings are used, are unrelated to anything else, technically speaking, no matter what models or equipment they may depict or reference.

The point is, Honda would rather not disclose any information about any of their designs to anyone for any reason. Especially when and where they're going to use them. They're only going to submit the very least amount of information they deem required for a motion to pend. Most likely they don't even care if a patent is granted. They certainly aren't going to "jazz" up a submission with trademarked graphics. It's 100% unnecessary, and counter productive to the idea of getting something patented in the first place...so someone else doesnt use the idea.

kiwifan
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6/11/2016 8:23pm
Katoomey wrote:
No. They dont! Again, text discriptions, technical drawings, and schematics are not the same thing as trademarked signage, labeling, and graphical designs. Maybe you didnt click...
No. They dont!

Again, text discriptions, technical drawings, and schematics are not the same thing as trademarked signage, labeling, and graphical designs.

Maybe you didnt click the link in the original post. It had CRF graphics layered over the patent submission. Of course there will be text in a patent submission, and the name of the company, but there will never be trademarked graphical design, especially from a specific model, or anything else linking that technology to a specific model. And whatever drawings are used, are unrelated to anything else, technically speaking, no matter what models or equipment they may depict or reference.

The point is, Honda would rather not disclose any information about any of their designs to anyone for any reason. Especially when and where they're going to use them. They're only going to submit the very least amount of information they deem required for a motion to pend. Most likely they don't even care if a patent is granted. They certainly aren't going to "jazz" up a submission with trademarked graphics. It's 100% unnecessary, and counter productive to the idea of getting something patented in the first place...so someone else doesnt use the idea.

Bearuno
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6/11/2016 10:16pm
No, not fake, but an engine design suitable for a pump / generator / steady state applications. Not a 'performance' engine.

Though, I think it uses a (very) few things from their early / mid 90s EXP2 / AR projects. You can find a fair amount about the EXP2 / AR 2ts, and their patents, on the web

2 links with a few pictures of the EXP2s :

http://www.parisdakar.it/en/honda-exp-2/

http://www.honda-museum.com/honda-exp-2/

5th outright - 1st under 500cc in the 95 Dakar under Jean Brucy, in an era of Works Twins (#100 is the 780cc V Twin outright winner - I think #680 XR is the winner of the 92 Baja 1000) . It has been 'alleged' that Honda held Jean / the bike back / in check, so as not to beat their 4ts. They ought to drag it out of the Honda Museum at Motegi, and use it in the current Dakar......

Just think how far they might have come with 2T development in the ensuing 21 years .

They made use of some of the patents, in producing the CRM250AR from 1996 to 1999.
kiwifan
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6/11/2016 10:23pm
Bearuno wrote:
No, not fake, but an engine design suitable for a pump / generator / steady state applications. Not a 'performance' engine. Though, I think it uses...
No, not fake, but an engine design suitable for a pump / generator / steady state applications. Not a 'performance' engine.

Though, I think it uses a (very) few things from their early / mid 90s EXP2 / AR projects. You can find a fair amount about the EXP2 / AR 2ts, and their patents, on the web

2 links with a few pictures of the EXP2s :

http://www.parisdakar.it/en/honda-exp-2/

http://www.honda-museum.com/honda-exp-2/

5th outright - 1st under 500cc in the 95 Dakar under Jean Brucy, in an era of Works Twins (#100 is the 780cc V Twin outright winner - I think #680 XR is the winner of the 92 Baja 1000) . It has been 'alleged' that Honda held Jean / the bike back / in check, so as not to beat their 4ts. They ought to drag it out of the Honda Museum at Motegi, and use it in the current Dakar......

Just think how far they might have come with 2T development in the ensuing 21 years .

They made use of some of the patents, in producing the CRM250AR from 1996 to 1999.
My comments were based on Katoom saying that the fender airflow patent wasnt a patent filed by Honda....you went a little off topic there
usp4u
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6/11/2016 10:52pm
Making room for an auxiliary muffler.
Jono
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6/11/2016 11:15pm
Beast666 wrote:
SHHHHHHH What next for the CRF's oval pistons supported by 2 connecting rods and 8 valve heads

kiwifan wrote:
Be one heck of an engine tho...
Check out the Honda NR 750. It's 750cc road bike with oval pistons and 8 valves per cylinder.

It's a 1982 model, to me it still looks amazing.
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/honda/honda_nr750.htm
kiwifan
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6/12/2016 12:07am
Jono wrote:
Check out the Honda NR 750. It's 750cc road bike with oval pistons and 8 valves per cylinder. It's a 1982 model, to me it still...
Check out the Honda NR 750. It's 750cc road bike with oval pistons and 8 valves per cylinder.

It's a 1982 model, to me it still looks amazing.
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/honda/honda_nr750.htm
Yup...amazing engine for sure!
Beast666
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6/12/2016 6:03am
Just to show how long it might take a patent to go from application to being granted just take a look at Kawasaki's patent for the H2/H2R the priority date is 12/24/2009 but the patent was not granted till 11/19/2013.

https://www.google.com/patents/US8584783?dq=supercharger+inassignee:kaw…


For those that are wondering what the priority date is. It is the date that the application was first made. This allows to company to protect the patent from other companies while hashing out the details and other legal issues until it is granted or denied.
6/12/2016 6:51am
Isn't mud (stuck under/on the fender and fork legs) going to render this design marginally effective at best...at least some (a lot?) of the time? Like any time you ride the dirt bike around mud. Even functioning unobstructed, how "real-world" effective can this be?
A degree or two cooler, some of the time? I guess if it is just redesigning/ reshaping a piece of plastic, why not?

Maybe I'm not seeing it right.

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