YZ Fork Seals Keep Blowing

Premix
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Edited Date/Time 6/6/2016 12:39pm
All right, reaching out to the moto minds of Vital for some help:

09 YZ250, brake side fork seal keeps blowing, matter of fact, I'm on my third set this year. Lasts about 3-5 hours. Tried OEM and SKF and both have blown around the same time. Forks were revalved and resprung over the winter by a local suspension shop, who will go unnamed. Have 15 hours on them now and the third set just blew this morning. Forks are properly aligned, no nicks or scratches in lower on either side, bushings were new at rebuild. Brake side fork does have a tremendous amount of pressure releasing from it every time I bleed time, which is before I ride and when I get home. I am religious about keeping my bikes clean and also pop the dust seal down after every ride and clean them as well. Talked to the previous owner and never had an issue with it either.

Thoughts?
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FGR01
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Fantasy
6/5/2016 3:04pm
Well, I know these forks are sensitive to worn bushings. You can have bushings that still look fine, no obvious wear but the forks will eat seals until you put new ones in. You say the bushings are fairly new but that is the only common thing I can think of.

When you pull down the dust seals are you sticking anything inside the oil seal to clean it?

What brand seals and what brand bushings are you using?
moco
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6/5/2016 3:58pm
Something has to be causing the fit to be sloppy on the one side. I'm going to take a guess and call out a bushing, or else the fork hasn't been reassembled properly. On the assembly side, there's an oil lock collar that gets punched in before the oil seal. It usually gets bypassed for replacement in favour of more obvious bushings on the inner tube. The collar is of a heavier metal and "will always look like its OK". I can possibly see this as being responsible for excess play. There's also a lip to one side of the ring. Is it in backwards? If it keeps being reassembled the same way it came apart, there may be a pattern being followed that got mixed up in the past.
I don't think i've ever had seals blow out from anything other than wearing out through friction. There's never been a chunk missing from the inside lip, and the mysterious business card trick for dirt has never worked. Friction wears em out, increasing the I.D, and leaks happen. Excess play equals more friction and heat.
6/5/2016 4:08pm
Im going to ask the obvious question, is there any nicks in the fork leg?
Premix
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6/5/2016 4:29pm
No nicks in the fork leg. Been staring at this thing all day, finally had one of my riding buddies stop by, grabbed the lower forks and they are rocking like the bushings are bad. The bushing literally might have 10 hours on them and are OEM.....other thing he pointed out, I had my uppers ano'd over the winter. Never had an issue before. Has me thinking stripping and anoing the forks may have screwed up the tolerances....

The Shop

tempura
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6/5/2016 9:33pm
Had the same with my 2016 yz250, but was on the right side. From new, it started after just a few hours. I assumed it was "break in" wear so I went ahead and got the forks serviced and parts replaced, OEM parts. Happened again soon after. The bike is now sold.
lumpy790
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6/6/2016 7:04am
99% of the time there is a small nick that over time eats away at the seal. I rub my finger over every part of the tube to feel for the knick then use a jewelers file to smooth out the knick edges.

The only other thing is fork bushing worn and allowing enough flex to leak.
aedwards07
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6/6/2016 11:23am
Did they plug and strip only the outers of the tubes or did they strip and ano the entire tube?
BobPA
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6/6/2016 12:02pm
I do not think pulling the dust cover down and "cleaning" the seal is at all necessary....especially if you are sticking something into the seal to clean it.

Sound like there is flaw in the chrome of the tube somewhere.
Premix
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6/6/2016 12:39pm
aedwards07 wrote:
Did they plug and strip only the outers of the tubes or did they strip and ano the entire tube?
Yes, that's my fear. Shop convinced me it wouldn't hurt the forks. Everything is brand new inside of the forks, lowers don't have a mark on them. Just retracing the timeline of when I had no issues until now and this is the only thing I can come up with. Found another set of stock tubes with factory coating, hoping to get them swapped out this week.
adam8781
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6/6/2016 11:38pm
are the inner chamber oil levels staying the same? if the seal on the damping rod isn't holding, it will slowly leak oil into the outer chamber on full compression of the fork the pressure is to great and will blow the fork seals.

I would start with full disassembly and inspection of the inner chamber and seals.
cwtoyota
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6/7/2016 1:25am
aedwards07 wrote:
Did they plug and strip only the outers of the tubes or did they strip and ano the entire tube?
Premix wrote:
Yes, that's my fear. Shop convinced me it wouldn't hurt the forks. Everything is brand new inside of the forks, lowers don't have a mark on...
Yes, that's my fear. Shop convinced me it wouldn't hurt the forks. Everything is brand new inside of the forks, lowers don't have a mark on them. Just retracing the timeline of when I had no issues until now and this is the only thing I can come up with. Found another set of stock tubes with factory coating, hoping to get them swapped out this week.
While you have it apart, grab some 600 grit wet-or-dry finishing paper.
Wrap a strip around the fork tube and sand a cross-hatch into the tube with the paper.

You aren't trying to take down the OD, just buff down any irregularities and put in a cross-hatch pattern.


Make sure you are assembling the front end correctly. If you pinch the fork lugs together when you tighten up the axle and pinch bolts, you're likely to have seals leaking the first ride. Make sure your axle doesn't have any burrs or dings on the end. Lots of people who don't know what they are doing use a hammer or other implement to pound the axle in. That mushrooms the end a little and doesn't allow it to properly locate in the right fork lug. If the Previous owner beat on it, get a new front axle, or use a small file to remove the burrs on the axle OD.
HardTaco
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6/7/2016 8:30pm
Every sss yz I've ever owned did this, revalved or stock didn't matter. Every ride i pull the dust seals and wash out, then run a risk racing seal doctor around the inside lip of the oil seal. Currently have over 35 hours on a stock set (my woods race bike) with no leaks. Just give it a shot, seriously.
Premix
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6/10/2016 4:35am
Think I got it figured out. Had my builder swap the fork tubes back to a stock set last night. Tubes were wearing the bushings so bad(which had very little time) when we went to disassemble they were pulling right past the them with little effort. New bushings, seals, oil, and tubes. Play is gone now. Hoping this was it!
Premix
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6/10/2016 9:26am
mx37 wrote:
Man I'm telling you, give these things a try. They go in with velcro, so they can be removed on demand.

http://bermmotorsports.com/collections/dirt-shock-sox
I may, ran fork skins years ago and they ate my lowers, basically any grit that got in there acted like sandpaper to the lowers.
mx37
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6/10/2016 9:29am
By design these are "supposed" to be removed and washed after every ride. So in all likelihood that wouldnt happen with these.
adam8781
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6/10/2016 6:19pm
I rebuilt my 06 sss stuff beginning of last summer, and got 3-4 track days a week from april-november without issue, so no its not a sss issue
Mx746
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6/17/2016 9:00am
On my 3rd set of seals on a 14 250 with only 10hrs. Interesting thread.
Premix
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6/17/2016 11:41am
Ended up being the tubes were out of spec after ano as they stripped inside and out. Basically cause the bushings to wear quickly and allow excessive play. Swapped back to OEM tubes, new bushings and seals. All good so far after a few races and a couple practice days.
USMCMXer
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6/17/2016 2:12pm
Bones wrote about this very issue in last month's MXA. He said everyone is looking for trick coatings and ano and that 99% of the companies doing this, aftermarket, to your stock components, make them perform worse than stock. Too bad really, because it is super cool, but I guess that's also why the really good stuff is so spendy.
cwtoyota
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6/18/2016 12:37pm Edited Date/Time 6/18/2016 12:38pm
Premix wrote:
Ended up being the tubes were out of spec after ano as they stripped inside and out. Basically cause the bushings to wear quickly and allow...
Ended up being the tubes were out of spec after ano as they stripped inside and out. Basically cause the bushings to wear quickly and allow excessive play. Swapped back to OEM tubes, new bushings and seals. All good so far after a few races and a couple practice days.
Glad you found a solution.

This is the story of the motocross "industry" from my perspective. I see too many people with $2500 worth of anodized billet aluminum all over their bikes and most of it isn't as good as the OEM part it replaced.

Plenty of exceptions to that statement, but I see it a lot.

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