Finally, now bring on the points chase!

h&m_cycle
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5/2/2016 11:51am
Crush wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2016/04/30/133535/s1200_chase.jpg[/img]
WTF IS THIS???

I'm seeing Seely & Musquin's Name listed with Chase Points...

You can't win no title or be in any chase without winning a supercross race this year...
Motoxdoc
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5/2/2016 12:12pm
TDeath21 wrote:
A "playoff system" isn't needed when you compete against EVERYONE EVERY WEEKEND on 17 DIFFERENT TRACKS. If they go to a chase format I'll make it...
A "playoff system" isn't needed when you compete against EVERYONE EVERY WEEKEND on 17 DIFFERENT TRACKS. If they go to a chase format I'll make it a point to not watch any races live.
OK, now we're talking, one less fake fan at the races; that's a good start. Now If Feld could figure out what rule change would make people like you stop posting/whinning on our beloved MX websites, I'd be all for that too. To all you fair weathered fans that are threatening to boycott SX/MX because of ANY rule change...MX is a lifestyle for many of us, not a fad!
JPT
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5/2/2016 12:14pm
JPT wrote:
What people think needs changing is the fact that one rider is doing exactly racing a series is supposed to be about. Being very fast and...
What people think needs changing is the fact that one rider is doing exactly racing a series is supposed to be about. Being very fast and very consistent.

Has anybody noticed that if you take RD out of the equation KR would have wrapped it up this week? In fact you have to get down to between 6th and 7th before there's less than a 25 point gap.
Despite the disapproval of a few in relating Supercross to Football ([i]the most watched sport in the United States[/i]) I am going to stick with it...
Despite the disapproval of a few in relating Supercross to Football (the most watched sport in the United States) I am going to stick with it for the sake of consistency...

Do we have any issues with the credentials of the Patriots having dominating regular seasons, stellar post seasons, and owning nearly everyone the last few years in the Super Bowls? Like SX teams they still work incredibly hard all year, show up every game playing hard, and are still rewarded for their efforts come the end of the season (despite having to clear their records going into the playoffs / Superbowl).

I feel like people are afraid that someone like Brayton (I only use his name because it keeps popping up) is going to show up in Vegas and clinch the title... which simply isn't how the format works. He, like Dungey, Tomac, Roczen, etc and their respective teams have to bust their asses all year long to continue moving on in the tournament to remain in title contention.
Add me to the group that don't think it's a relevant comparison. As has been mentioned numerous times in the cattle sports (Football, Baseball etc) you are looking for a way to get a championship when the competitors not only don't face all the other competitors every week, there are teams they never meet in the regular season. Not at all like SX/MX where they face off every Saturday.
TDeath21
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5/2/2016 12:16pm
TDeath21 wrote:
A "playoff system" isn't needed when you compete against EVERYONE EVERY WEEKEND on 17 DIFFERENT TRACKS. If they go to a chase format I'll make it...
A "playoff system" isn't needed when you compete against EVERYONE EVERY WEEKEND on 17 DIFFERENT TRACKS. If they go to a chase format I'll make it a point to not watch any races live.
Motoxdoc wrote:
OK, now we're talking, one less fake fan at the races; that's a good start. Now If Feld could figure out what rule change would make...
OK, now we're talking, one less fake fan at the races; that's a good start. Now If Feld could figure out what rule change would make people like you stop posting/whinning on our beloved MX websites, I'd be all for that too. To all you fair weathered fans that are threatening to boycott SX/MX because of ANY rule change...MX is a lifestyle for many of us, not a fad!
Lol you're such a fucking dumb ass. That was comical.

The Shop

jeffro503
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5/2/2016 12:19pm
Whatever happens , I hope they just " ease " into it. Meaning , don't make any drastic changes right off the bat , but change things to make it interesting.....and not retarded.
5/2/2016 12:22pm
I still say forget the chase format and use the same thing that SuperEnduro uses. That produces some of the best racing action over 3 different...
I still say forget the chase format and use the same thing that SuperEnduro uses. That produces some of the best racing action over 3 different mains.

2 rows of 11 riders on the gate.
3x10 lap races - Gets rid of the the race being over after the first turn.

1 - extra point for fastest time in practice
2 - First main gate pick is based on qualifying lap
3 - Second main is inverted pick based on results of first main
3 - Third main is based of combined results from 1st and 2nd main.
4 - combined points from 3 mains provide finish results.

No need for chase and will be very entertaining.

... I'd also recommend throwing out some logs.
I've been in favor of a two row start for years. It's puts the top 4 and winners of the semi on the front row, might give some optional track designs, softens the angle of a "pinched" start straight and theoretically helps solve some first turn crashing/first lane catastrophes by helping separate the field before the first corner.

It should also help get all the "fast guys" out of the first corner together which is what we all want to see.
731chopper
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5/2/2016 12:22pm
TDeath21 wrote:
A "playoff system" isn't needed when you compete against EVERYONE EVERY WEEKEND on 17 DIFFERENT TRACKS. If they go to a chase format I'll make it...
A "playoff system" isn't needed when you compete against EVERYONE EVERY WEEKEND on 17 DIFFERENT TRACKS. If they go to a chase format I'll make it a point to not watch any races live.
Motoxdoc wrote:
OK, now we're talking, one less fake fan at the races; that's a good start. Now If Feld could figure out what rule change would make...
OK, now we're talking, one less fake fan at the races; that's a good start. Now If Feld could figure out what rule change would make people like you stop posting/whinning on our beloved MX websites, I'd be all for that too. To all you fair weathered fans that are threatening to boycott SX/MX because of ANY rule change...MX is a lifestyle for many of us, not a fad!
I don't understand the people who say they'll stop watching if the championship moves to a chase format but TDeath21's first sentence is a valid point. A playoff system isn't necessary in our sport unless we wanted an ultimate championship at the end that included 250 East, West and 450 guys.
Motoxdoc
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5/2/2016 12:25pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 12:30pm
Jaybird67k wrote:
That is the gayest thing I have ever seen!!! Please stop and just go vote for Hillary or Bernie since you like taking from the hard...
That is the gayest thing I have ever seen!!!

Please stop and just go vote for Hillary or Bernie since you like taking from the hard workers and giving to the not as hard working or just not as competitive.

Geesh !
LOL....a homophobe in favor of the lazy rich preying on the hard working lower class...you would rather redistribute wealth from the lower to the upper class?! Thanks for the arbitrary off-the-wall comments. It's a little interesting to know THAT about you, BUT..........can you stay on topic?
JPT
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5/2/2016 12:26pm
I never suggested a total boycott, but I did suggest the fans make it clear they don't accept the chaSE champion as anything but a pretender.
Dezerted
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5/2/2016 12:36pm
JPT wrote:
I never suggested a total boycott, but I did suggest the fans make it clear they don't accept the chaSE champion as anything but a pretender.
And if Dungey wins next year with a chase should we call his 4th championship a pretender championship? Or should we just acknowledge that he won a 4th sx title?
akillerwombat
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5/2/2016 12:38pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 12:42pm
JPT wrote:
Add me to the group that don't think it's a relevant comparison. As has been mentioned numerous times in the cattle sports (Football, Baseball etc) you...
Add me to the group that don't think it's a relevant comparison. As has been mentioned numerous times in the cattle sports (Football, Baseball etc) you are looking for a way to get a championship when the competitors not only don't face all the other competitors every week, there are teams they never meet in the regular season. Not at all like SX/MX where they face off every Saturday.
Granted every team isn't on the same field / court at the same time but in both Basketball and Baseball every team has an opportunity to play each other before going into the playoffs (to the point that some games are scheduled more frequently than others for the hype / rivalry created between the two teams)... who would have guessed that drama was good for the sport?

I'm not here trying to argue that Chase is a better format for competition than the current – all I'm trying to say is that contrary to the popular idea that Chase somehow produces an "undeserving champion" is untrue as proven by other sports who manage to produce legacy style champions (Patriots, Yankee's, Lakers) via a system in which records are absolved when advancing to the succeeding stages of competition.
5/2/2016 12:45pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 12:46pm
I don't understand the hatred for the chase unless you have some invested interested in a specific person who this could have a negative effect on. If you're a fan of dirtbike racing I would have to think you would rather have a championship go down to the last round than it being all but wrapped up for the last 5 rounds.

The last time a title went down to the last race was 2011 and I guarantee any moto fan was more excited for that race than they are going into this weekend.
Berm
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Fantasy
5/2/2016 1:04pm
Granted every team isn't on the same field / court at the same time but in both Basketball and Baseball every team has an opportunity to...
Granted every team isn't on the same field / court at the same time but in both Basketball and Baseball every team has an opportunity to play each other before going into the playoffs (to the point that some games are scheduled more frequently than others for the hype / rivalry created between the two teams)... who would have guessed that drama was good for the sport?

I'm not here trying to argue that Chase is a better format for competition than the current – all I'm trying to say is that contrary to the popular idea that Chase somehow produces an "undeserving champion" is untrue as proven by other sports who manage to produce legacy style champions (Patriots, Yankee's, Lakers) via a system in which records are absolved when advancing to the succeeding stages of competition.
Look to 2007 for an example of a situation where a team utterly dominated all the way to the final game, and then lost. Patriots were 18-0 up to the Superbowl, Giants 13-6 at superbowl (with 1 loss to the Patriots already). 16-0 pat vs 10-6 giants regular season.

Based off of regular season performance, the Giants were the worst team to ever make the superbowl (not just worst to win, worst to even make it there) - until 2011 when they again made the superbowl with a negative point differential and a 9-7 regular season record. Ironically enough, they beat the patriots that year for the superbowl.
5/2/2016 1:20pm
JPT wrote:
I never suggested a total boycott, but I did suggest the fans make it clear they don't accept the chaSE champion as anything but a pretender.
Dezerted wrote:
And if Dungey wins next year with a chase should we call his 4th championship a pretender championship? Or should we just acknowledge that he won...
And if Dungey wins next year with a chase should we call his 4th championship a pretender championship? Or should we just acknowledge that he won a 4th sx title?
Dungey already alluded to the fact he doesn't like the idea of a chase. Also can we quit the team sports/playoff comparisons? Wombat is talking in circles to satisfy himself as the two cannot be compared. No relevancy no matter how you try to spin it.
Spartacus
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5/2/2016 1:20pm
Excellent!! I now have another reason to not watch SX.
akillerwombat
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5/2/2016 1:24pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 1:25pm
Berm wrote:
Look to 2007 for an example of a situation where a team utterly dominated all the way to the final game, and then lost. Patriots were...
Look to 2007 for an example of a situation where a team utterly dominated all the way to the final game, and then lost. Patriots were 18-0 up to the Superbowl, Giants 13-6 at superbowl (with 1 loss to the Patriots already). 16-0 pat vs 10-6 giants regular season.

Based off of regular season performance, the Giants were the worst team to ever make the superbowl (not just worst to win, worst to even make it there) - until 2011 when they again made the superbowl with a negative point differential and a 9-7 regular season record. Ironically enough, they beat the patriots that year for the superbowl.
I have a hard time believing anyone with a passion for Supercross (and the power to change the format) would consider resetting the points before Vegas a fair way to asses a Champion. If that is what ends up getting decided I am 100% out. Instead, I'd like to believe that they will treat our "Superbowl" as the last 4 or so races... giving everyone a few opportunities to prove themselves amongst the competition (and soften the blow for things like bike issues).

Your example is one of the things I prefer about Baseball / Basketball championships. While I do like the "you have to show up ready to play" repercussions of the Super Bowl I think the best of 7 format is a far more rounded approach to proving yourself / your team.
JPT
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5/2/2016 1:26pm
I don't understand the hatred for the chase unless you have some invested interested in a specific person who this could have a negative effect on...
I don't understand the hatred for the chase unless you have some invested interested in a specific person who this could have a negative effect on. If you're a fan of dirtbike racing I would have to think you would rather have a championship go down to the last round than it being all but wrapped up for the last 5 rounds.

The last time a title went down to the last race was 2011 and I guarantee any moto fan was more excited for that race than they are going into this weekend.
I've followed this sport since Tripes won the first one. My first live race was seeing Karsmakers jumping over the pit wall at Daytona in '74. I went both Friday and Saturday nights at the old Astrodome when they did the weekend double. I've seen a lot of changes from moto format to the elimination heats we have now, two stokes to four, Semis to no Semis (the only change I disliked) back to Semis (yea more races) and a bunch I've forgotten.

The only thing that hasn't changed is what it takes to be the Champion. That combination of skill, smarts and a little luck that it takes to make it through a full season and come out on top. The fact that on occasion there is a rider who does those very things so very well he wraps things up early is just part of the deal. I hated RC, hated that he was so dominate but I sure as hell didn't want to change the rules to stop him.

I like it when the season goes down to the wire. I was at the finals in 2006 When it was so close between RC, James and Reed. It was great. But it was also real, not some adjusted system to make it appear close. Somebody said the anti-chaSE people are whining. The whining started with those saying "the series is over with 5 races to go, no point in even watching anymore, Dungey (or RC or RV or Mac) is too good, I need to be entertained til the end, somebody fix it for me".

If you're a fan you go to see good racing and a close championship. But you want the championship to mean something. The chaSE is like too much CGI in a movie, it might look interesting at first glance until you realize it's just a cartoon.
Ashleymx
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5/2/2016 1:29pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 1:31pm
The fact Brayton would be a Supercross champion on a chase format is a perfect example as to why it's stupid No offence to Brayton but he isn't in the same league as RV, Dungey Stewart, Reed, RC etc. To be handed a championship even though RV rode better over all 17 round is an absolute joke.

The proof is already there to see that it won't work. It will take all credibility away from the series. All rounds before the chase will be sandbagging and won't get the media/sponsor/spectator attention, tickets wont sell. No one will bother watching live and TV if at all. Then a simple mistake or DNF in the chase will cost a deserving rider a title.

Also it isn't just about the title it affects all positions!! Deserving riders who might have ended up 2nd or 3rd etc could have a simple mechanical in the Chase and drop to 10th. Unfair right through.

The racing has been awesome all season long. We still have Tomac and Roczen riding like a title is on the line. I just don't get the complainers anyway. This is beyond stupid.
5/2/2016 1:39pm
Sorry you guys are bored of supercross, or hate Dungey. Its been the same way with MC, RC, JS, RV, RD....and viewership and attendence are good. Live tv. No reason to fix what is not broken. Maybe to some individuals it seems broken, but why now and not during any of those eras?

Football comparison doesnt work because everyone doesnt play everyone week in and week out, and many competitors(teams) do not even face each other at all all season. Comparing them is laughable actually.

This is just as much 'proof' that you need. The only proof that is out there is that all the races wont count the same. One win isnt the same as the next. It is punishing the winner. Dungey should of had a huge lead at the end and should be wrappin it up early because he had what it takes to dominate. Its bringing the losers up a bit and the winners down and that isnt fair just because some are bored or dont like Dungey.
10000hrs
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5/2/2016 1:43pm
I still say forget the chase format and use the same thing that SuperEnduro uses. That produces some of the best racing action over 3 different...
I still say forget the chase format and use the same thing that SuperEnduro uses. That produces some of the best racing action over 3 different mains.

2 rows of 11 riders on the gate.
3x10 lap races - Gets rid of the the race being over after the first turn.

1 - extra point for fastest time in practice
2 - First main gate pick is based on qualifying lap
3 - Second main is inverted pick based on results of first main
3 - Third main is based of combined results from 1st and 2nd main.
4 - combined points from 3 mains provide finish results.

No need for chase and will be very entertaining.

... I'd also recommend throwing out some logs.
I've been in favor of a two row start for years. It's puts the top 4 and winners of the semi on the front row, might...
I've been in favor of a two row start for years. It's puts the top 4 and winners of the semi on the front row, might give some optional track designs, softens the angle of a "pinched" start straight and theoretically helps solve some first turn crashing/first lane catastrophes by helping separate the field before the first corner.

It should also help get all the "fast guys" out of the first corner together which is what we all want to see.
I am good with a two row start but ...

Put the top 11 guys in the points standings in the back row.
Flip109
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5/2/2016 1:48pm
I got an idea for a chase. As soon as someone gets more than a 1 race lead in points in the championship. Before the main event gate drop they release a box of midgets with sticks to "chase" the points leader around and whoop his legs for a bit. Take his mind off the race. Laughing
5/2/2016 1:50pm
I still say forget the chase format and use the same thing that SuperEnduro uses. That produces some of the best racing action over 3 different...
I still say forget the chase format and use the same thing that SuperEnduro uses. That produces some of the best racing action over 3 different mains.

2 rows of 11 riders on the gate.
3x10 lap races - Gets rid of the the race being over after the first turn.

1 - extra point for fastest time in practice
2 - First main gate pick is based on qualifying lap
3 - Second main is inverted pick based on results of first main
3 - Third main is based of combined results from 1st and 2nd main.
4 - combined points from 3 mains provide finish results.

No need for chase and will be very entertaining.

... I'd also recommend throwing out some logs.
I've been in favor of a two row start for years. It's puts the top 4 and winners of the semi on the front row, might...
I've been in favor of a two row start for years. It's puts the top 4 and winners of the semi on the front row, might give some optional track designs, softens the angle of a "pinched" start straight and theoretically helps solve some first turn crashing/first lane catastrophes by helping separate the field before the first corner.

It should also help get all the "fast guys" out of the first corner together which is what we all want to see.
10000hrs wrote:
I am good with a two row start but ...

Put the top 11 guys in the points standings in the back row.
Ricky Johnson has an opinion on that lmao

In the chase, could ppl get away with skipping A1 and still be in it?
Dezerted
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5/2/2016 2:06pm
JPT wrote:
I never suggested a total boycott, but I did suggest the fans make it clear they don't accept the chaSE champion as anything but a pretender.
Dezerted wrote:
And if Dungey wins next year with a chase should we call his 4th championship a pretender championship? Or should we just acknowledge that he won...
And if Dungey wins next year with a chase should we call his 4th championship a pretender championship? Or should we just acknowledge that he won a 4th sx title?
Dungey already alluded to the fact he doesn't like the idea of a chase. Also can we quit the team sports/playoff comparisons? Wombat is talking in...
Dungey already alluded to the fact he doesn't like the idea of a chase. Also can we quit the team sports/playoff comparisons? Wombat is talking in circles to satisfy himself as the two cannot be compared. No relevancy no matter how you try to spin it.
He did but I don't believe he alluded to the championship becoming a pretend championship.

yes sx and team sports are vastly different but comparisons can be made. If you can't see that I'd say you've made up your mind and don't want to hear any information that may threaten or contradict that opinion
akillerwombat
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5/2/2016 2:08pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 2:10pm
Dungey already alluded to the fact he doesn't like the idea of a chase. Also can we quit the team sports/playoff comparisons? Wombat is talking in...
Dungey already alluded to the fact he doesn't like the idea of a chase. Also can we quit the team sports/playoff comparisons? Wombat is talking in circles to satisfy himself as the two cannot be compared. No relevancy no matter how you try to spin it.
If we can't draw comparisons with nearly every broadcast sport in exploring ways to maintain season long excitement as we attempt to expand the reach of Supercross on competing channels then we're all fucked.

Every one of us sits here all day bitching about how our riders don't make enough money, how we don't get enough exposure, they don't get enough support, etc, but outside of "making a more difficult track" we refuse to try anything big to change it up... ever. Instead we sit on our asses year in and year out saying the same shit expecting something crazy to happen.

All I'm trying to say is that at the end of the day SX is entertainment. Plain and simple. Do you think FS1 is all that happy to have yet another season end pre-maturely vs knowing it will all come down to the final race? Instead of hyping up the big names in the sport going into Vegas all they're talking about is the East Coast / West Coast shootout (which is incredibly exciting because a few different guys – WHO HAVEN'T RACED EACH OTHER ONCE THIS SEASON – are going to go to battle to see which one of them is the fastest... which is kind of like... THE SUPER BOWL?)

At the end of the day you want FS1 happy. You want them dumping money into shit and hyping up races because in the entertainment business if you're stagnant; you're fucked.
Dezerted
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5/2/2016 2:10pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 2:11pm
Ashleymx wrote:
The fact Brayton would be a Supercross champion on a chase format is a perfect example as to why it's stupid No offence to Brayton but...
The fact Brayton would be a Supercross champion on a chase format is a perfect example as to why it's stupid No offence to Brayton but he isn't in the same league as RV, Dungey Stewart, Reed, RC etc. To be handed a championship even though RV rode better over all 17 round is an absolute joke.

The proof is already there to see that it won't work. It will take all credibility away from the series. All rounds before the chase will be sandbagging and won't get the media/sponsor/spectator attention, tickets wont sell. No one will bother watching live and TV if at all. Then a simple mistake or DNF in the chase will cost a deserving rider a title.

Also it isn't just about the title it affects all positions!! Deserving riders who might have ended up 2nd or 3rd etc could have a simple mechanical in the Chase and drop to 10th. Unfair right through.

The racing has been awesome all season long. We still have Tomac and Roczen riding like a title is on the line. I just don't get the complainers anyway. This is beyond stupid.
Brayton would not be unless you can prove

A) that nothing would of changed had all riders known prior to A1 that they were going to be in a chase and

b) you know EXACTLY what the chase format is
Mit12
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5/2/2016 2:27pm
Not wanting the chase has nothing to do with a favorite rider winning the championship. It is about having a system in place that allows unprepared riders a chance to get back into the championship by punishing the points leader.
Dezerted
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5/2/2016 2:40pm
Mit12 wrote:
Not wanting the chase has nothing to do with a favorite rider winning the championship. It is about having a system in place that allows unprepared...
Not wanting the chase has nothing to do with a favorite rider winning the championship. It is about having a system in place that allows unprepared riders a chance to get back into the championship by punishing the points leader.
Twos ways to look at this but first let me say what I'm about to say is in no way insinuating that James Stewart would of won this championship..

The chase would also allow a prepared rider the ability to return from something entirely out of his control, like getting tboned by another rider causing him to be concussed forcing him to miss points from not only that race but potentially more. It would also allow the rider to not have to rush back before he physically should in order to salvage points. It's not safe for him and his future health or for his fellow riders.
10000hrs
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5/2/2016 3:32pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 3:36pm
PClaerhout wrote:
Ricky Johnson has an opinion on that lmao

In the chase, could ppl get away with skipping A1 and still be in it?
Different deal. Reverse gate picks by qualifying order is not the same as reverse gate pick by season point standings.

Do you think Dungey would sandbag for 16 rounds to end up in 12 place overall standings and with a front row gate pick at race 17? Or any race of the season for that matter?
Mit12
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5/2/2016 3:41pm Edited Date/Time 5/2/2016 3:47pm
Mit12 wrote:
Not wanting the chase has nothing to do with a favorite rider winning the championship. It is about having a system in place that allows unprepared...
Not wanting the chase has nothing to do with a favorite rider winning the championship. It is about having a system in place that allows unprepared riders a chance to get back into the championship by punishing the points leader.
Dezerted wrote:
Twos ways to look at this but first let me say what I'm about to say is in no way insinuating that James Stewart would of...
Twos ways to look at this but first let me say what I'm about to say is in no way insinuating that James Stewart would of won this championship..

The chase would also allow a prepared rider the ability to return from something entirely out of his control, like getting tboned by another rider causing him to be concussed forcing him to miss points from not only that race but potentially more. It would also allow the rider to not have to rush back before he physically should in order to salvage points. It's not safe for him and his future health or for his fellow riders.
I see your point but that is the thing that makes earning the championship over a long season so difficult and rewarding. I think that a chase format would degrade the value of the championship.

Perfect example would be when Stanton ran down Bradshaw in points at the last race. That was to this day the most unbelievable come from behind championship in the history of the sport. Stanton earned every point that he made up on Bradshaw. A chase format would never let that happen again because it would be a man made reduction in the points gap.
bad juju
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5/2/2016 3:55pm
Katoomey wrote:
I still fail to see how its unfair to anyone. If Dungey is so deserving of winning, then he shouldn't have a problem winning no matter...
I still fail to see how its unfair to anyone. If Dungey is so deserving of winning, then he shouldn't have a problem winning no matter what the format is. Doesnt the cream always rise?

I also think a format change wont do anything to make the racing better. The problem is the starts. The races are generally won or lost on the start, or at very least play too large of a role in the outcome.

Unless we just want to call this dirtbike drag racing and put the finish line at the holeshot marker and move on, the starts are what need a revamp.

If thats upsetting tradition too much, well i sort of agree, but thats where the real issues lie, as far as I'm concerned.
have you ever raced a series before? I could never imagine working my ass off to win races and "get a points lead" to win a title only to have it "reset" as if all my effort and risk equal zero!! I`m sorry but you make me sick.

Post a reply to: Finally, now bring on the points chase!

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