Genuine 2 stroke comeback - soon?

Racer92
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Racer92 12/16/2009 6:43am
12/16/2009 6:43am
PaleBlue wrote:
Could the new FIM noise limits force 4 strokes to be choked back so much that 2 strokes will be a more powerful option? For 2010...
Could the new FIM noise limits force 4 strokes to be choked back so much that 2 strokes will be a more powerful option?

For 2010. MX1, MX2, MX3, MXDN, Womens’ and Veterans’ World Championships is 115 dB/A with 1dB/A tolerance.
The measurement is at Max revs and at 2M distance (45 degrees).
The limits will reduce further for 2012 and 2013 (down to 110dBA at max revs) and will be extended across all national competitions.

To make the four strokes work properly with the new silencer one manufacturer is, I've heard, making changes to the cylinder head (reducing flow). How true that is I'm not sure but even at 115dBA it's affecting power. At 110dBA it'll bring things back to how they were 10 years ago. But by then there'll be new, cleaner, properly developed fuel injected 2 strokes (made in Europe). Oh yessssssss.

For more on the 'new' two stokes - FI 2 stokes Should read stRokes - sorry!
How do you know how well any of us can ride? And I do have a life, and it has several smokers in it.

ThePipe
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ThePipe 12/16/2009 7:23am
12/16/2009 7:23am
jmar wrote:
Two strokes are still available so why sit on motoboards and bitch and moan like some little girl. Go buy yourself a two stroke and your...
Two strokes are still available so why sit on motoboards and bitch and moan like some little girl. Go buy yourself a two stroke and your world with be right again.
ThePipe wrote:
I'm not bitchin and moaning

I was just stating a FACT
and I own 18 two strokes at the moment.
jmar wrote:
Good for you. You should be a happy man.
Braaaap
Here are a few of them

Racer92
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Racer92 12/16/2009 7:30am
12/16/2009 7:30am
That is one badass stable of smokers! I wouldnt know which one to pick to go ride! LOL

ThePipe
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ThePipe 12/16/2009 7:34am
12/16/2009 7:34am
The 3rd from the Right is an 87 CR125 in Mint condition.
My 16 yr old wants to ride it but that's off limits.

The Shop

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ratonmacias
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ratonmacias 12/16/2009 9:02am
12/16/2009 9:02am
ThePipe wrote:
The 3rd from the Right is an 87 CR125 in Mint condition.
My 16 yr old wants to ride it but that's off limits.
it should be against the to post those small pictures of your bikes and of hot chics
jmar
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jmar 12/16/2009 9:05am
12/16/2009 9:05am
PaleBlue wrote:
Could the new FIM noise limits force 4 strokes to be choked back so much that 2 strokes will be a more powerful option? For 2010...
Could the new FIM noise limits force 4 strokes to be choked back so much that 2 strokes will be a more powerful option?

For 2010. MX1, MX2, MX3, MXDN, Womens’ and Veterans’ World Championships is 115 dB/A with 1dB/A tolerance.
The measurement is at Max revs and at 2M distance (45 degrees).
The limits will reduce further for 2012 and 2013 (down to 110dBA at max revs) and will be extended across all national competitions.

To make the four strokes work properly with the new silencer one manufacturer is, I've heard, making changes to the cylinder head (reducing flow). How true that is I'm not sure but even at 115dBA it's affecting power. At 110dBA it'll bring things back to how they were 10 years ago. But by then there'll be new, cleaner, properly developed fuel injected 2 strokes (made in Europe). Oh yessssssss.

For more on the 'new' two stokes - FI 2 stokes Should read stRokes - sorry!
Racer92 wrote:
How do you know how well any of us can ride? And I do have a life, and it has several smokers in it. [img]http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b277/database2/MX/rm100.jpg[/img]
How do you know how well any of us can ride? And I do have a life, and it has several smokers in it.

Very nice bikes but those of you that want everyone to "ride what you ride" need to give it up.
Four strokes are here to stay and your pro level riders like it that way.

BTW: I would think its a fairly safe bet to say that those doing the bitching and moaning couldn't come close to riding a 125 to it's limits.
ElkinHammer
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ElkinHammer 12/16/2009 9:10am
12/16/2009 9:10am Edited Date/Time 12/16/2009 9:12am
If the EPA is to blame then WHY can we still buy a 2 stroke chainsaw,weedeater,mopedand or a kick ass YZ 250...
oh wait you can't buy a 2009 YZ 250 because they are all sold out! what does that say for the EPA theory?
Racer92
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Racer92 12/16/2009 9:16am
12/16/2009 9:16am Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:29pm
jmar wrote:
Very nice bikes but those of you that want everyone to "ride what you ride" need to give it up. Four strokes are here to stay...
Very nice bikes but those of you that want everyone to "ride what you ride" need to give it up.
Four strokes are here to stay and your pro level riders like it that way.

BTW: I would think its a fairly safe bet to say that those doing the bitching and moaning couldn't come close to riding a 125 to it's limits.
I dont care what other folks ride, I just dont like that 2-smokes arent being imported here and my choices are greatly limited. You fat & lazy guys can ride the tractors all you want.

Wink
Tiki
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Tiki 12/16/2009 9:40am
12/16/2009 9:40am
ElkinHammer wrote:
If the EPA is to blame then WHY can we still buy a 2 stroke chainsaw,weedeater,mopedand or a kick ass YZ 250... oh wait you can't...
If the EPA is to blame then WHY can we still buy a 2 stroke chainsaw,weedeater,mopedand or a kick ass YZ 250...
oh wait you can't buy a 2009 YZ 250 because they are all sold out! what does that say for the EPA theory?
The answers I have heard to that. Each company is based on "Gross Pollutants" Measures each company takes in all aspects to reduce CO2 emissions are granted credits. These credits cover over to the products they manufacture that exceed. In short they are allowed X amount of pollutants to be expelled. If they choose to do this at the factory, or at the end product it is up to them. So each company chooses its own way to do this. So why are there weed eaters, scooters? Standards are set by cc's .50 and under are not included in this.

So ask yourself this question, Manufacturers are tooled up and capable of manufacturing existing two strokes. We have all seen "BNG" bikes. Wouldnt it be beneficial to the company to manufacture a product which they are already tooled up for? It would be just more return on the investment. Trust me I have asked this same question. At the end of the day what do I care if there are new two strokes or even four strokes. Someone has gotten it their head that the two cycle motor is bad. It isnt. Back to my original post. The supposedly bad motors. Then ask why have the snowmobile manufactures start to make four stroke sleds? Way more expensive and heavier.

Ideally if two strokes can be made to limit CO2 levels, even less than the four stoke engine that would be fantastic. They could be implemented in all combustion engine applications. But the C02 is now the buzz word of all manufacturers and tree huggers. The CO2 is the next big emissions standard to hit us in 2012. This will hit the transportation industry really bad. There is a lot being done and not said to the consumer, hidden under the papers and we will have to just take it in the ass.


Pipe has an amazing collection of dirt cycles. We are all envious.
mosslander
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mosslander 12/16/2009 12:53pm
12/16/2009 12:53pm
Let the grass grow in the gardens and the Co2 will reduse
Shawn142
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Shawn142 12/16/2009 1:45pm
12/16/2009 1:45pm
Racer92 wrote:
I dont care what other folks ride, I just dont like that 2-smokes arent being imported here and my choices are greatly limited. You fat &...
I dont care what other folks ride, I just dont like that 2-smokes arent being imported here and my choices are greatly limited. You fat & lazy guys can ride the tractors all you want.

Wink
Your choices are far from limited, pretty much all development ended long ago with maybe the exception of KTM. The Yamaha most people are willing to pay 7k for new hasn't changed since '06. Now THAT is overpriced. Consider yourself lucky there's a huge market for cheap 2-strokes out there to choose from. And yes, I'm also willing to put money on the fact most people coming up with this constant complaint have no idea what it's like to ride and race a 2-stroke to the edge at even the local pro level. How much of a struggle it was to race 125s or how tricked out all my bikes had to be to even competitive just because I was 160lbs instead of 130lbs like the midgets I was racing against.

If 2-strokes were still being made and imported the complaining would shift over to how little development you're getting for your dollar. They'd still all be 7k+ and there'd be something new and exciting to complain about somewhere.
G-man
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G-man 12/16/2009 3:20pm
12/16/2009 3:20pm Edited Date/Time 4/17/2016 7:30pm
Racer92 wrote:
I dont care what other folks ride, I just dont like that 2-smokes arent being imported here and my choices are greatly limited. You fat &...
I dont care what other folks ride, I just dont like that 2-smokes arent being imported here and my choices are greatly limited. You fat & lazy guys can ride the tractors all you want.

Wink
Hey who you calling fat and lazy!!!!! Woohoo

I might be old, but not fat and lazy

ok maybe not lean & mean & full of energy

ok how about slight beer gut and slightly less motivated to hang it out these days at 51.

How's that? lol
andymoto
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andymoto 12/16/2009 4:45pm
12/16/2009 4:45pm
Just enjoy whatever your passion with dirtbikes is before more government shenanigans continue to shrink access to those areas special to each of us.

2 stroke, 4 stroke is better than no strokes.
CR250Rider
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CR250Rider 12/16/2009 6:08pm
12/16/2009 6:08pm
thumpers represent a great opportunity for the OEMs to sell us a $10k dirt bike
you can't fight that
Moto East Mag
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Moto East Mag 12/16/2009 6:31pm
12/16/2009 6:31pm
What's wrong with having both? Good God- if you don't want a 4- banger don't buy one. It's not like we're fighting over pieces of a pie. If the demand for two strokes returns- the bikes will return. This isn't the car or banking business- the laws of supply and demand actually exist here in moto-land.
aggiemoto99
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aggiemoto99 12/16/2009 6:48pm
12/16/2009 6:48pm
not really...it cost too much to co develop....

At some point as a company anyone here would just have to say, it's one, or the other.

At that point in time say around 05-07, companies said it's 4t...

I think they are eating some of their decision now...bad economy or not, the 4t IMHO contributes or better worded AMPLIFIES a lack of funds by being a reason for lack of funds!

The 2t will return from some small company who sells it...much like service honda, but with their "own" base product. Heck it might be chinese at some point
motomike894
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motomike894 12/16/2009 6:58pm
12/16/2009 6:58pm
Well wait till you see me on mine at a few supercrosses hopefully, see how I can do!
miedosoracing1 12/17/2009 7:47am
12/17/2009 7:47am Edited Date/Time 12/17/2009 7:53am
Moto East Mag wrote:
What's wrong with having both? Good God- if you don't want a 4- banger don't buy one. It's not like we're fighting over pieces of a...
What's wrong with having both? Good God- if you don't want a 4- banger don't buy one. It's not like we're fighting over pieces of a pie. If the demand for two strokes returns- the bikes will return. This isn't the car or banking business- the laws of supply and demand actually exist here in moto-land.
I'm pretty sure that's what's happening. Supply has well over supplied these last couple of years of 4 strokes. Not so much with 2 strokes. Find me a left over 07 2 stroke, then go see how many left over 4 strokes. Plus the fact that people were buying new 09 450F's at almost half price... So I guess what you say it is true, except they just keep making too many 4 strokes and not enough 2 strokes... As for people here not riding them fast, ProAMA with licenses to prove. It isn't just about the 2 strokes for most of us. It is the fact that 4 strokes noise has been a huge problem. If they would cut down the sound to 90db across the board, i would probably have very little qualms. Of course then the 2 strokes would be dominating again. Either way, 2011 will be a different year. There will be more choices in the US, and the outdoor season will have something new and fresh. ;-)

Pit Row

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adamdf
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adamdf 12/17/2009 8:36am
12/17/2009 8:36am
Haha that was awesome Tiki!
PaleBlue
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PaleBlue 12/18/2009 1:07am
12/18/2009 1:07am
Thanks for the Informative post 'Race' - shame not too many people read them..... If they had people would see that the 'New' 2 stokes are going to be as unlike the old 2 strokes as the 4 strokes currently are. They are also NOT going to be $5000! The era of bike makers losing money on each unit are well and truly over.

The only obstacle to progress is Honda.
andymoto
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andymoto 12/18/2009 1:32am
12/18/2009 1:32am
adamdf wrote:
Haha that was awesome Tiki!
If pollution is the issue of the moment and get cleared up, then it will be noise; fix that, then it will be soil erosion problems and some yellow frog; fix that, then it will be closed course bikes can ride only on closed courses; etc.......the list of things these hacks can and will use is long and they've been waiting long for an opp like this..

wreckitrandy
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wreckitrandy 12/18/2009 5:32am
12/18/2009 5:32am
My angle on this is purely selfish. I like to ride. Therefore, I need a place to ride. Miedosoracing is directly on point in saying noise is a huge problem. MC can't ride on his own property because of it. Upset property owners in Burke county NC are making a big stink about private tracks. We better figure out a way to police ourselves here else WE put at risk the next generation's opportunity to enjoy dirt bikes.
smx4l
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smx4l 4/12/2010 7:28pm
4/12/2010 7:28pm
okay let me settle the battle of smokers vs quad strokers. my best freind runs a honda 450 4 stroke. i run a suzuki 85 2 stroke with a pr2 performance engine, and i has traction contol. now we got talking one day and he was sure his bike could beat me in a short drag (acceleraion) long drag (top speed) and around the track (combination of both+ hanling.) well i totally smoked him in the short drag due to my traction control. i dint think i had a chance in the 1/4 mile drag. but i killed him there. and obviously due to those i took him out on the track. which resulted in a honda 450 getting killed by a suzuki 85 and a great day 2 strokes and a totally embarrasing day for 4 strokes. I can have pics of both bikes up here in a second for anyone who feels they need to see. in fact ill put some on here with this post. these are both

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fillemon/2081120858/

http://www.vitalmx.com/community/edit/photo_gallery/16646

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