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After motocross is over, it is over. What's next?
i'm surprised at the lack of comments on this statement.
i pitted next to a b rider at branson a couple of years ago. they had a toy hauler, a large four-door truck, two bikes, a van full of parts, and a mechanic. the parents stayed at a motel in town while the mechanic and rider stayed in the toy hauler. they complained that they didn't have enough money to be competitive.[/quote:3joeyw5c]
That's a load of bullshit right there. Maybe their son should ride faster. I'd bet money that kid couldn't ride a YZ125 to it's [b:3joeyw5c]absolute maximum[/b:3joeyw5c] potential, much less any four stroke he most likely had. If he could, he wouldn't be in the 'B' class.
Or more...
BTW: It is possible to win at that level with out the support of the OEMs. I happen to know a kid that had at least a half of dozen national titles under his belt before he started receiving factory support. He didn’t have rich parents, and in 93 before Suzuki picked him up he was winning on worn out 91 RM 80s.
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BTW: It is possible to win at that level with out the support of the OEMs. I happen to know a kid that had at least a half of dozen national titles under his belt before he started receiving factory support. He didn’t have rich parents, and in 93 before Suzuki picked him up he was winning on worn out 91 RM 80s.[/quote:1me9gjfh]
That was 15yrs ago. Gas was $1.10 gal. Try to keep up. It's a whole new world out there.
After motocross is over, it is over. What's next?[/quote:2tkpvjem]
flipping hamburgers because your family is in dept, and you cant afford to go to college, or cant get in to college because you didnt go to highschool, and now you suck at life.
another thing thats sad is that some B riders are getting better support than some privateers can find. i have a friend that could easily run top 20 in the nationals. and thats showing up with a truck and trailer, being his own mechanic and have the shittiest looking bike out there. but doesnt want to because when the day is over, it would have cost him money to go do that. rediculous. but yet theres factories taking B riders to the races and giving them there bikes all done up.
P[/quote:2xw6p8hy]
where was that P? I checked the usual supspects ( Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Duke) and they were all around 42-45 w/ room and board.
SMU maybe?
Most spew the venom out of arrogance but in reality it’s jealousy. I am all for getting a college education but I know of many college graduates that are working for peanuts.
Demand bank statements and proof of deposits from every competitor at sign up?
Seriously, how could you take the money out of it?[/quote:1m2qm9ln]
I am really not sure how it would be policed but there has to be a way. I played some competitive amateur golf growing up and it was very clear how much you could accept as a merchandise prize (no cash ever) and still retain your amateur status. A similar setup in MX might see some of these Factory B riders in more of a hurry to get to A.
BTW: It is possible to win at that level with out the support of the OEMs. I happen to know a kid that had at least a half of dozen national titles under his belt before he started receiving factory support. He didn’t have rich parents, and in 93 before Suzuki picked him up he was winning on worn out 91 RM 80s.[/quote:2cc0n326]
That was 15yrs ago. Gas was $1.10 gal. Try to keep up. It's a whole new world out there.[/quote:2cc0n326]
The price of fuel has nothing to do with the fact that non “factory support” amateur riders can be completive. Today’s OEM support amateur teams seem more organized than the teams of the past, but other than that, things really haven’t changed that much. When you take a look at the equipment, other than the four bangers things really haven’t change that much. In fact (correct me if I am wrong) the RM 80 has seen little change since 1989.
BTW: I hate the high price of fuel also but in reality, the fuel cost from OKC to the 93 World Mini in Vegas would have been around $185.00. Today it would cost around $500.00. That’s a whopping $315.00 and taking into account 2% wage increase a every year I don’t think that fuel prices are going to stop a parent from getting little junior to an amateur national event if little junior is really completive.
So EI is hiring?
I am sure most of you know this but what I found out is a lot of these "Amateurs" get paid big money, have their own mechanics, are pampered beyond belief and are basically factory riders are a slightly smaller scale. They don't wash bikes, they don't fix their own meals, they do nothing but ride. I know they train hard and are very dedicated but if you are a true amateur in this sport you have to compete with some pretty big budgets in order to get noticed. GOOD LUCK.
Check the Top 5 in every class and you will more than likely find a "Factory Amateur" in the top 3 of each class.
Kawasaki had 2 Big Rigs, Mechanics, Managers, staff etc all over the place
KTM had 1 Big Rig, and 3 smaller rigs etc...
Honda/Honda of Houston had 2 big Rigs...
Yamaha had 2 big rigs etc...
Suzuki was the only Manufacturer without a big rig, but their riders did very well. (I might have missed their rig)
I miss the Ford Econoline Van days when the sport was pure and the playing field was fairly level.[/quote:ghdhg86z]
Old Fat Tired,
OK, so? This info isn't new, in fact I have the same opinion as you and I have been saying this for years.
What about the kids that don't have all that support? How do you measure them against the have's and the have-not's.
Worse yet they disguise it as these events are done during holidays when in reality they are weeks from holidays. So take the kids out of school, all for?
No one gives a shit they just argue it as they turn on the sea of generators and run the diesel engines of the tractor. That's the reality of it. The sport gets it in the ass and theres no real accountably.
What happened to the box van? Like you said where did the econoline go? I love the grass roots Amateur racing. I feel its the heart and soul of the sport, but thats where Mom and Dad come to watch their kids. Or Young riders are measured against those of the same skill. Then big business gets involved and messes it up with throw more money at it and it will be a success. If I cant win on skill, I can win on the most modded bike. Sure claiming rules exist, but they are ignored, protests. What will take it to change?
In short I agree, but its a vicious cycle that has started. I dont expect seeing it come to an end.
They've come from a different generation.
Whats it going to be like for someone 10-15 years from now that doesn't even have a high school education?
Might as well start buying lottery tickets.
much better system could be in place but the OEM's have to do it, since no rules will make it happen.
this whole part of the mx world has gotten out of hand. Maybe you should have to be 18 to be pro with a high school diploma?[/quote:28u5h9ah]
"Maybe you should have to be 18 to be pro with a high school diploma?"
I brought this up a while back in a thread and got my head ripped off. If all other major sports are 18 and above at the minimum why do we continue to let "kids" race at this level. They are kids, still children and to be put under the spot light and pressure is wrong.
Erik
The thing that kills me is the parents would jack theirs and their kids lives up so they can live vicariously through them. sad but true. most should be ashamed of themselves.
Pit Row
BTW: It is possible to win at that level with out the support of the OEMs. I happen to know a kid that had at least a half of dozen national titles under his belt before he started receiving factory support. He didn’t have rich parents, and in 93 before Suzuki picked him up he was winning on worn out 91 RM 80s.[/quote:1gc3r9s6]
That was 15yrs ago. Gas was $1.10 gal. Try to keep up. It's a whole new world out there.[/quote:1gc3r9s6]
[b:1gc3r9s6]The price of fuel has nothing to do with the fact that non “factory support” amateur riders can be completive. Today’s OEM support amateur teams seem more organized than the teams of the past, but other than that, things really haven’t changed that much. When you take a look at the equipment, other than the four bangers things really haven’t change that much. In fact (correct me if I am wrong) the RM 80 has seen little change since 1989. [/b:1gc3r9s6]
BTW: I hate the high price of fuel also but in reality, the fuel cost from OKC to the 93 World Mini in Vegas would have been around $185.00. Today it would cost around $500.00. That’s a whopping $315.00 and taking into account 2% wage increase a every year I don’t think that fuel prices are going to stop a parent from getting little junior to an amateur national event if little junior is really completive.[/quote:1gc3r9s6]Jmar bike's and parts alone to be competitive in today's "amateur' world for a season could be upwards of $25,000 to $30,000 and that's on a budget. Those talented fortunate riders who don't foot that bill can spend it trainers, mx camps and traveling. The days of a privateer weekend warrior kid who goes to school showing up and beating the factory guys are going by the wayside just like in the pro's.
I think in B and C class there should be a total ban on any monetary support, and of course there should be stringent rules tracking it to avoid "back door" support. This might help keep amateur motocross what it should be for kids- a fun sport that doesn't require six figures in the bank to compete in.
I don't race at the top level, but I see local racers doing very well with few resources, even riding two-strokes. You don't need a huge Rv, five bikes, a pro mechanic, a trainer, and a thousand gadgets to be competitive.
Anyone figure out how to stop money from changing hands?
Talk is easy, provide solutions.
Gonna demand bank statements at registration?
Anyone figure out how to stop money from changing hands?
Talk is easy, provide solutions.
Gonna demand bank statements at registration?[/quote:17f4in27]
This type of regulation is done all the time in the business world. I would think you would monitor the companies and who they are writing checks to. As someone said, college sports are a good model, although that system is abused.
There would be ways to do it under the table of course. But the main motivator would be to avoid getting disqualified. I imagine you would see a lot of self-enforcement in the racing community also. Not that we need more protests and that type of bs.
Once you cross the line between providing gear and writing checks, well, the line has been crossed.
I am the father of one of those ex “factory amateur stars”. To start off, we are a working class family. I am not, and never have been overwhelmed with debt. My son started competing at a national level at the age of 4 and received no factory support until he was 12 or 13. He spent a total of 13 years in the amateur ranks before turning pro at the age of 17. Due to many factors, mostly injuries, he never quite had the success that he and others expected.
Not every family gets overwhelmed with debt so their children can give it their best shot at making it in this sport.
As far as my son’s intelligence level, he was a 4.0 student from the first grade all the way up until the eleventh grade. In the 6th grade he was the recipient of the Masonic Award and in 8th grade was awarded a full scholarship to the NASA space camp. After many battles with the Edmond School District, (even though he was a 4.0 student) he was forced to leave public school (missing more that 8 days a semester) tested out, and received his GED. After three shoulder surgeries, three ACL replacements and two broken wrists, my son made his own decision to retire from the sport and move on with his life. In two years in the workplace he is making just under $50,000 a year and attending college at night working to obtain a degree in business.
Not all amateur stars are dumber that a box of rocks and not all ex racers are destined to become “Burger Flippers” or suck at life.
[quote:1ayblrlh]i have a friend that could easily run top 20 in the nationals. and thats showing up with a truck and trailer, being his own mechanic and have the shittiest looking bike out there. but doesnt want to because when the day is over, it would have cost him money[/quote:1ayblrlh]
If you’re buddy can “easily” top twenty every week then he needs to be at the races. I would be interested in who this guy is.
[quote:1ayblrlh]another thing thats sad is that some B riders are getting better support than some privateers can find.
but yet theres factories taking B riders to the races and giving them there bikes all done up.
[/quote:1ayblrlh]
And why is that?
Do you think that companies like Parts Unlimited, Western Power sports, or Tucker Rocky make their money off of pros? How about FMF, Pro Circuit or any of the other after market performance companies? What about motorcycle manufactures? Do they sell more bikes and parts to pros or amateurs?
The amateur market is where everyone in this industry makes their money.
Anyone figure out how to stop money from changing hands?
Talk is easy, provide solutions.
Gonna demand bank statements at registration?[/quote:1juygyfq]
This type of regulation is done all the time in the business world. I would think you would monitor the companies and who they are writing checks to. As someone said, college sports are a good model, although that system is abused.
There would be ways to do it under the table of course. But the main motivator would be to avoid getting disqualified. I imagine you would see a lot of self-enforcement in the racing community also. Not that we need more protests and that type of bs.
Once you cross the line between providing gear and writing checks, well, the line has been crossed.[/quote:1juygyfq]
Sorry,
I'm not giving my books to the AMA or MX Sports
I'll stop giving any support before that happens
I can’t speak for others but my son had absolutely no interest in working inside the industry. He won’t even attend a race. He says it’s hard to be around the races if he isn’t racing. He still goes out on the weekends and rides with friends.
I am an amatuer.
I have no pro license, that proves it.
I am an amatuer.
I have no pro license, that proves it.
[/quote:kfppu2f9]
LOL hope you didn't make it in C class.........but if you did in A class cool. no problem, bet you bought another Suzuki?
I am sure most of you know this but what I found out is a lot of these "Amateurs" get paid big money, have their own mechanics, are pampered beyond belief and are basically factory riders are a slightly smaller scale. They don't wash bikes, they don't fix their own meals, they do nothing but ride. I know they train hard and are very dedicated but if you are a true amateur in this sport you have to compete with some pretty big budgets in order to get noticed. GOOD LUCK.
Check the Top 5 in every class and you will more than likely find a "Factory Amateur" in the top 3 of each class.
Kawasaki had 2 Big Rigs, Mechanics, Managers, staff etc all over the place
KTM had 1 Big Rig, and 3 smaller rigs etc...
Honda/Honda of Houston had 2 big Rigs...
Yamaha had 2 big rigs etc...
Suzuki was the only Manufacturer without a big rig, but their riders did very well. (I might have missed their rig)
I miss the Ford Econoline Van days when the sport was pure and the playing field was fairly level.[/quote:13qg0b85]
totally. And you should see the amount of money asked for Top B and A riders when it comes to sponsorship. Actually, it should be called "endorsement". They are more expensive than most of the AMA Pros.
We all know certain riders do get preference and free things, but you can walk up to most any of those "factory rigs" ask a question or need some help and the guys are always very helpful.
I took my son to the Texas Nationals this year because my husband DID have to stay home and work, to support Joeys racing AND because we own our own buisness.....its just life. I am back home because I have a commitment to the builder I work for and for the rest of the week my 23 year old daughter will be there to take care of her brother. What most of you guys dont understand this is a FAMILY sport for many of us.
Post a reply to: The 'NOT SO AMATEUR'-Amateur Nationals