Stock Bikes!

Edited Date/Time 4/8/2016 3:25pm
Has anybody ever ejoyed the Idea of a stock bike....

Similar to what the Karting boys do!

Have a stock engine, Limited compression
A stock shock
Stock forks
Stock tyre (cheap and short knobs to improve track tear up)
Stock chassis

and then every year update one of the the above (So each of the above gets updated once every five years)

Bringing costs down to a minimum for start up and development costs
everybody on a similar equipment. (yeah there will always be cheats)

Thinking if one of the chinese ever got there hands on the Cr 250 moulds and Jigs
and started turning out a copy of the bike....

dont bash this post... build off it!
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38special
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4/8/2016 7:02am
I think the cool thing about motocross is you don't need rules like that. An old 100% stock bike can be extremely competitive against a new blinged-out 450 at the local level.
Grizz
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4/8/2016 7:06am
38special wrote:
I think the cool thing about motocross is you don't need rules like that. An old 100% stock bike can be extremely competitive against a new...
I think the cool thing about motocross is you don't need rules like that. An old 100% stock bike can be extremely competitive against a new blinged-out 450 at the local level.
I agree. It's always more rider than anything.
4/8/2016 7:39am
But the direction that I am looking it as...

Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped
and anodised like a rainbow with a brand new pipe giving them unrideable power bands,

And if there mom and dad sponsored then it will hurt mom and dads wallet,
If there was a stock bike - then it would tke 90 percent of the tuning and questions out of it.

opening it up for people on a budget!

and lets face it, the next generation are going to be on a helll of a budget!
you can still have your exotic class, but bring in a 150 stock class!

and then it will DEFINATLY be all about the rider
slowgti
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Monroe, GA, USA
4/8/2016 7:50am
I don't think the bike is the problem for 97% of riders. The 'A' practice sx guys can run 'B' practice pace on a stock engine 450.

The Shop

8686
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USA
4/8/2016 8:53am
slowgti wrote:
I don't think the bike is the problem for 97% of riders. The 'A' practice sx guys can run 'B' practice pace on a stock engine...
I don't think the bike is the problem for 97% of riders. The 'A' practice sx guys can run 'B' practice pace on a stock engine 450.
Fast is fast. The rest of the bike being the same besides a stock engine, it would be closer than that.
CrGuy2T
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Santa Fe, TX, USA
4/8/2016 10:10am Edited Date/Time 4/8/2016 10:11am
Clint_ezra wrote:
But the direction that I am looking it as... Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped and anodised like...
But the direction that I am looking it as...

Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped
and anodised like a rainbow with a brand new pipe giving them unrideable power bands,

And if there mom and dad sponsored then it will hurt mom and dads wallet,
If there was a stock bike - then it would tke 90 percent of the tuning and questions out of it.

opening it up for people on a budget!

and lets face it, the next generation are going to be on a helll of a budget!
you can still have your exotic class, but bring in a 150 stock class!

and then it will DEFINATLY be all about the rider
I don't think people kashima and anodize because they believe it faster. It because that's what the want. If someone can have what they want so be it. My next question is what generation are speaking of when you say "next" will need to be on a budget?
d394
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Middletown, NY, USA
4/8/2016 10:35am
Stock bikes are fully capable ! you may or may not (depending on qualifying) see a privateer #675 in 450sx this weekend on a stock kx450f. Stock being as stock motor and suspension as it came off the showroom floor with the exception of an FMF slip on for sound purposes. In my opinion, it's crazy that local events have guys with modded motors so that they can ride open novice.

Nothing better than smoking people on a bone stock bike !
jj welks
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USA
4/8/2016 10:48am
Isn't there a dude in gps running a stock ktm ? Was a photo of him on one of the links on the home page.

Also Andrew short a couple years ago... Besides pegs lol
Phillip_Lamb
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Location
ORANGEVALE, CA, USA
4/8/2016 10:56am
Clint_ezra wrote:
Has anybody ever ejoyed the Idea of a stock bike.... Similar to what the Karting boys do! Have a stock engine, Limited compression A stock shock...
Has anybody ever ejoyed the Idea of a stock bike....

Similar to what the Karting boys do!

Have a stock engine, Limited compression
A stock shock
Stock forks
Stock tyre (cheap and short knobs to improve track tear up)
Stock chassis

and then every year update one of the the above (So each of the above gets updated once every five years)

Bringing costs down to a minimum for start up and development costs
everybody on a similar equipment. (yeah there will always be cheats)

Thinking if one of the chinese ever got there hands on the Cr 250 moulds and Jigs
and started turning out a copy of the bike....

dont bash this post... build off it!
on a road course racing anyone of these things can cut seconds off your lap times. This is because you can control the variable of the maching due to consistent road conditions. Road courses dont change so you can get data and make a noticeable change. Tire compound, engine tuning, chassis changes will be noticed, so each rider/driver will have similiar setups

in dirt bike racing, each bike on the line is unique in setup. power delivery suspension valving, tires type all different.
and the courses are always different so there is no consistency. in one day the track can be tacky and loamy then itll dry out and be slick. a small change can easily go unnoticed to the rider
4/8/2016 11:27am
These bike are competitive out of the box. I see no reason for a stock class. The reason you see stock class in karting is because of the ridiculous motors some will build. Case and point. My unlimited class gx200 kart motor makes 23hp. "Stock" it is more in the 10-12 range. There are guys making quite a bit more than mine.

You don't see that kind of horsepower advantage in moto.
cwtoyota
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Location
Tacoma, WA, USA
4/8/2016 11:42am
Clint_ezra wrote:
But the direction that I am looking it as... Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped and anodised like...
But the direction that I am looking it as...

Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped
and anodised like a rainbow with a brand new pipe giving them unrideable power bands,

And if there mom and dad sponsored then it will hurt mom and dads wallet,
If there was a stock bike - then it would tke 90 percent of the tuning and questions out of it.

opening it up for people on a budget!

and lets face it, the next generation are going to be on a helll of a budget!
you can still have your exotic class, but bring in a 150 stock class!

and then it will DEFINATLY be all about the rider
I do pretty well on a stock 125 against guys on 450 four strokes.

Motocross already has too many classes on any given weekend.
I'd rather see more "run what ya brung" kind of classes with 20 or 30 minute motos seperated into fewer divisions.

If motos were longer than 5 laps at the local track you would see a lot more people riding your stock 150cc two strokes.
Phillip_Lamb
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ORANGEVALE, CA, USA
4/8/2016 1:02pm
Clint_ezra wrote:
But the direction that I am looking it as... Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped and anodised like...
But the direction that I am looking it as...

Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped
and anodised like a rainbow with a brand new pipe giving them unrideable power bands,

And if there mom and dad sponsored then it will hurt mom and dads wallet,
If there was a stock bike - then it would tke 90 percent of the tuning and questions out of it.

opening it up for people on a budget!

and lets face it, the next generation are going to be on a helll of a budget!
you can still have your exotic class, but bring in a 150 stock class!

and then it will DEFINATLY be all about the rider
cwtoyota wrote:
I do pretty well on a stock 125 against guys on 450 four strokes. Motocross already has too many classes on any given weekend. I'd rather...
I do pretty well on a stock 125 against guys on 450 four strokes.

Motocross already has too many classes on any given weekend.
I'd rather see more "run what ya brung" kind of classes with 20 or 30 minute motos seperated into fewer divisions.

If motos were longer than 5 laps at the local track you would see a lot more people riding your stock 150cc two strokes.
no i dont think you would. I can right now turn more laps on my 450 vs a 125. The 125 is significantly lighter but my heart rate jumps because im working harder to try to go as fast and clear jumps. on the 450 i can relax. i have 'time' to focus on breathing clearing jumps etc.
mxb2
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Bowie, MD, USA
4/8/2016 1:12pm
jj welks wrote:
Isn't there a dude in gps running a stock ktm ? Was a photo of him on one of the links on the home page. Also...
Isn't there a dude in gps running a stock ktm ? Was a photo of him on one of the links on the home page.

Also Andrew short a couple years ago... Besides pegs lol
Shorts crf. wasnt stock,, ignition ,cam,hc piston,kit suspension if i remember right.
cwtoyota
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Tacoma, WA, USA
4/8/2016 1:46pm
no i dont think you would. I can right now turn more laps on my 450 vs a 125. The 125 is significantly lighter but my...
no i dont think you would. I can right now turn more laps on my 450 vs a 125. The 125 is significantly lighter but my heart rate jumps because im working harder to try to go as fast and clear jumps. on the 450 i can relax. i have 'time' to focus on breathing clearing jumps etc.
That's a good point regarding how most guys ride. A buddy of mine called it "laziness factor"; he was describing what he likes about the 450F. I still see those guys getting tired at the end of a 5 lap moto and their lap times (relative to mine) always seem to slow down.

Either way, I don't think this sport needs spec-classes. The variety of tracks and variety of conditions makes the rider and his skill more important than the bike he's on.
Phillip_Lamb
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4/8/2016 2:42pm
spec classes are good to have. it puts everyone on (relatively) same equipment and you see who is fastest on that size. Kinda like the miata spec classes.

the problem is that with 4 strokes there isnt as big of a difference that existed between a 125 and 250, and even signing up for classes you didnt lose much ona 250f vs 450 which is what i did.

ultimately if a rider is getting tired at 5 laps its the rider not the bike and it wont matter what hes on.

and to your point age classes already do this. old guys race mostly 450's but you'll see 250's 250f and 125's occasionally.
Bultaco
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Planet, VT, USA
4/8/2016 2:52pm
Clint_ezra wrote:
But the direction that I am looking it as... Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped and anodised like...
But the direction that I am looking it as...

Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped
and anodised like a rainbow with a brand new pipe giving them unrideable power bands,

And if there mom and dad sponsored then it will hurt mom and dads wallet,
If there was a stock bike - then it would tke 90 percent of the tuning and questions out of it.

opening it up for people on a budget!

and lets face it, the next generation are going to be on a helll of a budget!
you can still have your exotic class, but bring in a 150 stock class!

and then it will DEFINATLY be all about the rider
I agree that a plain showroom bike (with thoughtful adjustment of suspension, ergos, jetting) is plenty good. But folks want to spend $$$$. Either because it makes them a bit different or because it will make them just like the factory guy. In many ways it is like the guitar player that buys the same guitar as [insert guitar hero name here] thinking it will make them play/sound like the hero.

Articles like the KTM350 on the vital home page don't help. "Here is this great bike.....that does not need anything.....but we are going to make minor adjustments......like changing wheels, seat, forks, brakes, plastic, graphics....carbon...anodized trickery.". The print mags do the same.

How is it that a "great bike" needs all this stuff changed? It does not.

ML512
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Wildomar, CA, USA
Fantasy
4/8/2016 3:09pm
Clint_ezra wrote:
But the direction that I am looking it as... Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped and anodised like...
But the direction that I am looking it as...

Many riders dont believe that there ride will be competitive unless its kashima dipped
and anodised like a rainbow with a brand new pipe giving them unrideable power bands,

And if there mom and dad sponsored then it will hurt mom and dads wallet,
If there was a stock bike - then it would tke 90 percent of the tuning and questions out of it.

opening it up for people on a budget!

and lets face it, the next generation are going to be on a helll of a budget!
you can still have your exotic class, but bring in a 150 stock class!

and then it will DEFINATLY be all about the rider
Bultaco wrote:
I agree that a plain showroom bike (with thoughtful adjustment of suspension, ergos, jetting) is plenty good. But folks want to spend $$$$. Either because it...
I agree that a plain showroom bike (with thoughtful adjustment of suspension, ergos, jetting) is plenty good. But folks want to spend $$$$. Either because it makes them a bit different or because it will make them just like the factory guy. In many ways it is like the guitar player that buys the same guitar as [insert guitar hero name here] thinking it will make them play/sound like the hero.

Articles like the KTM350 on the vital home page don't help. "Here is this great bike.....that does not need anything.....but we are going to make minor adjustments......like changing wheels, seat, forks, brakes, plastic, graphics....carbon...anodized trickery.". The print mags do the same.

How is it that a "great bike" needs all this stuff changed? It does not.

I never said on the homepage article it needed to be hanged but it's things that were nice to change or did improve the bike.

Comparing a stock class idea to kart racing's 125 class is a bit skewed unless you know the rules of that class. There are multiple chassis and tires to choose from, silencer and pipes... Adjustments you can make to the kart's chassis for each driver. Custom seats, the karts are weighed with the drivers so light guys have to run extra weight. stuff like pedals, steering wheels and other ergos are changeable. The only real stock part about is the 1999 or 2001 Honda CR125 engines that are used. It would be more similar to saying we have a class in Moto where you can change tires, brakes, bars, seats, modify the stock suspension but the engine has to be stock. Then you have to regulate stock engines amongst multiple manufactures, not just one.
HenryA
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Stockholm, SE
4/8/2016 3:18pm
Nothing like showing up on a stocker and ride the shit out of it
4/8/2016 3:25pm
HenryA wrote:
Nothing like showing up on a stocker and ride the shit out of it
This!
Even better is when you see someone on an old stocker, flat ripping!
Last season there was a guy on a stock '93 YZ250 straight smoking the B class. I'd never seen him before, and Havent seen him since. It was awesome to watch.

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