ACTUAL Track Owners.....

200
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20
Joined
5/13/2008
Location
Graham, NC US
Edited Date/Time 3/25/2016 4:26am
I have searched and read the past threads about this, including all of the negatives and speculation of negative outcomes and examples of extremely high expenses. The general opinion on owning and operating a practice track is equal to or worse than jumping off a bridge into a pool of Justin Bieber songs, yet we all go ride at these tracks.............

So that justifies me starting a new post about it.

Would any ACTUAL owners of tracks be willing to email me to provide a little real world insight?

Thanks!
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downard254
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Bremen, OH US
3/23/2016 6:07am
Riding at the tracks is not the issue. It's the poor sap like me who has one and is afraid to let anyone ride on it for fear that anyone should stub their toe and then grab an attorney to sue for about everything I own.
1
200
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Graham, NC US
3/23/2016 6:43am
When I said we all ride at these tracks, I was trying to point out that there are many, many tracks in operation despite the general outlook that starting and operating one only leads to losing money, time, freedom and inalienable rights.
pbody
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Phoenix, AZ US
3/23/2016 7:22am
downard254 wrote:
Riding at the tracks is not the issue. It's the poor sap like me who has one and is afraid to let anyone ride on it...
Riding at the tracks is not the issue. It's the poor sap like me who has one and is afraid to let anyone ride on it for fear that anyone should stub their toe and then grab an attorney to sue for about everything I own.
Can't you set up an LLC and protect yourself from anything that happens at your "place of business?"
CarlinoJoeVideo
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Portland/Los Angeles, CA US
3/23/2016 7:50am
There must be ways to make a track profitable. Maybe owners need to start changing third business model.

The Shop

K-dubbb
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473
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CA
3/23/2016 7:53am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2016 7:57am
In Nova Scotia, Canada we have a Rider's Association with the foundation for insurance and liability that track owners and riders in the province pay into.

This allows tracks to be backed by a larger power and obtain the resources they need to be protected. I think it is $1,000 per year for the track owners and $26 for riders per year. Since both parties buy into these, they are all bound by the rules and liability that is and isn't covered.
Moto810
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Milton, WV US
3/23/2016 8:25am
Honestly I don't understand your post as it is not so clear. Track owners are not a big fan of modern communications so I would not expect much of a reply from them!
3/23/2016 8:30am
Moto810 wrote:
Honestly I don't understand your post as it is not so clear. Track owners are not a big fan of modern communications so I would not...
Honestly I don't understand your post as it is not so clear. Track owners are not a big fan of modern communications so I would not expect much of a reply from them!
Omg this is so true. This is the battle cra vs Oma is having.

Cra wants to post a schedule and you come race. But it doesn't work that way anymore.

Oma is providing quality prepped tracks and they launched a huge social media campaign.

CRA is dieing. Oma is growing.....

Advertise damn it. And not on Facebook. Facebook sucks.
NATEP231
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588
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4/20/2012
Location
Waterloo, IA US
3/23/2016 9:02am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2016 9:04am
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NATEP231
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588
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Waterloo, IA US
3/23/2016 9:03am
Well I ran a track for 4 years in Iowa. It was a little Saturday night track layouts were decent but the dirt sucked. Your never going to make everyone happy. Period. Wear thick skin when dealing with any mini dad. I had the luxury of growing up in this sport my entire life so I've see the good and the bad and when I newish mini dad comes on the scene and tries to act like the races where put on JUST for his son, that's where you need to stop them in their tracks. To many people think they can puff up to the promoter and have zero clue what goes on that week leading up to the races. Never let a mini dad win an argument. 90% of the time they are wrong and will apologize to you before the night is over.

Now on the the track stuff. I had the awesome opportunity to have my best friends help me run this place. Now that's where it can get a little in the grey area. I grew up racing with these guys and girls that helped. So we had lot of opinions coming from everywhere. You gotta stand your ground as Cheif. Another problem I ran across was to many people saw the money coming in and NEVER going out. Well when trophy bills, ambulance, insurance, water, employee's, pro purse (I paid out really good), sign up shack supplies, diesel (mind you it was 2011-2014 diesel was not cheap), equipment rentals, water truck breaking, outdoor light failure, radio advertising, and anything else I could be forgetting, they all saw it as I was raking in money hand over fist. Well that is not at all the case. I did it because I loved it not really for the money. I had a full time job and ran the track trust me there are some sleepless nights but it's all fun when you get smiles and hand shakes at the end of race night. I closed up the track in 2014 because I was tired of dealing with the fairgrounds it was on. They wanted more money and less help to keep their property up to code. They saw the people stacking the stands and went from $2.50 tall boys the first race, to the last race I had beer was either $4.75 or $5 per tall boy. They got greedy and thought I was going to make them a bunch of money while they sat back and did nothing. Don't get me wrong though I would pry start up another track and the drop of a hat but property will play a big part in it....it's pretty fun tho





Moto810
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Milton, WV US
3/23/2016 9:09am
Moto810 wrote:
Honestly I don't understand your post as it is not so clear. Track owners are not a big fan of modern communications so I would not...
Honestly I don't understand your post as it is not so clear. Track owners are not a big fan of modern communications so I would not expect much of a reply from them!
Omg this is so true. This is the battle cra vs Oma is having. Cra wants to post a schedule and you come race. But it...
Omg this is so true. This is the battle cra vs Oma is having.

Cra wants to post a schedule and you come race. But it doesn't work that way anymore.

Oma is providing quality prepped tracks and they launched a huge social media campaign.

CRA is dieing. Oma is growing.....

Advertise damn it. And not on Facebook. Facebook sucks.
Someone gets it! I have heard track owners say "everyone is on Facebook" ! A local track here does not update facebook or anything else. You have to call to ask when they will be open next. I have to say if a business owner is that stupid that they can not communicate with their customers properly then maybe they should not be in business? Just a thought.


There is always a way to make it work! Throw the old school methods out the door and start fresh! Don't do what the other tracks are doing just because they are doing it! Do it your way! Change things up and be the best you can be at it! Failure will be yours if you let it!
downard254
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Bremen, OH US
3/23/2016 9:51am
I think I missed one part of the OP's first post. That being owners who "operate" a track for practice. I'm not open to the general public. There's no way I ever want to operate an open track to the general public where I'll need insurance/lawyers to be active. I'll just keep it to myself and son and disappoint the others. Sorry.
NATEP231
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Waterloo, IA US
3/23/2016 9:59am
Wells shit my bad I completely misread that...I gotta keep paying attention while reading Laughing
Brad460
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Richfield, WI US
Fantasy
3/23/2016 10:18am
Go to Facebook and search "Sugar Maple Motocross"- things seem to be going well for him. Message him and I am sure he would be happy to answer your questions..just a thought
Tracktor
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The RTF/Amboy, WA US
3/23/2016 10:18am
You need to clarify - Private practice tracks in someones "backyard" or a public practice track that anyone can pay to ride? I have the former and have some experience with the latter....................
200
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20
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Location
Graham, NC US
3/23/2016 12:50pm
Thank you for the replies. To clarify:

I am looking to correspond with track owners who have owned and/or ran tracks. I have the opportunity to open a practice track. I am not interested in holding races (unless it moved that direction). I would ask the owners of tracks local to me, but am weary of information from people who may see potential competition.

I don't want to clog up the message board so if anyone would like to PM me, that would be greatly appreciated.
Cygnus
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Hanover, CO US
3/23/2016 1:10pm
Email or call. Tommysanfilippo@hotmail.com 303-513-5059. My lawyer has helped me a lot and saved me from getting sired for ten years.
crusher773
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2007
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Coweta, OK US
3/23/2016 2:52pm
It makes it more work than fun. Nobody is ever happy, equipment always breaks, location with a large rider base is key and you have got to have a lot of money to throw at it.
avidchimp
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EGL, MN US
3/23/2016 3:29pm
Cygnus wrote:
Email or call. Tommysanfilippo@hotmail.com 303-513-5059. My lawyer has helped me a lot and saved me from getting sired for ten years.
Yeah, because getting "Sired" can be hella expensive. Laughing
ACBraap
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Seattlish, WA US
Fantasy
3/23/2016 3:55pm
downard254 wrote:
Riding at the tracks is not the issue. It's the poor sap like me who has one and is afraid to let anyone ride on it...
Riding at the tracks is not the issue. It's the poor sap like me who has one and is afraid to let anyone ride on it for fear that anyone should stub their toe and then grab an attorney to sue for about everything I own.
pbody wrote:
Can't you set up an LLC and protect yourself from anything that happens at your "place of business?"
LLC's can help. Small businesses frequently do not do a good job of respecting legal entities, which can lead to 'piercing the veil' of liability protection by the entity. Also, the entity doesn't prevent someone from suing, just theoretically limits the assets they can reach.
kx254f
Posts
290
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7/15/2009
Location
Auburn, ME US
3/23/2016 6:20pm
200 wrote:
I have searched and read the past threads about this, including all of the negatives and speculation of negative outcomes and examples of extremely high expenses...
I have searched and read the past threads about this, including all of the negatives and speculation of negative outcomes and examples of extremely high expenses. The general opinion on owning and operating a practice track is equal to or worse than jumping off a bridge into a pool of Justin Bieber songs, yet we all go ride at these tracks.............

So that justifies me starting a new post about it.

Would any ACTUAL owners of tracks be willing to email me to provide a little real world insight?

Thanks!
If your not in a thriving Moto market, you need to work to bring new people in your area into the sport. You can't rely on friends and family of riders to do it for you... A good marketing plan, lots of consistent social posting and a way to bring kids and parents into the sport similar to how ski resorts bring in new people. It will take time but persistence is key and by persistence I mean years.

Good luck.
jtetchila1
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Location
Indianapolis, IN US
3/23/2016 7:22pm
I know that you are looking for folks that own practice tracks rather than promoters. With that said, feel me to email me at info@midamspeedway.com. Note that we are a Flattrack / Speedway track and not MX, but we do put on a couple endurocross type events that we call "Gonzocross". While this is not moto, the liability risks are nearly identical.
Racerx930
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Stillwater, OK US
3/23/2016 7:35pm
"Endurocross type events"

Sounds like the bastards threatened to sue you also.
Niloz
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Ayala Alabang, Muntinlupa City PH
3/23/2016 7:39pm
Moto810 wrote:
Honestly I don't understand your post as it is not so clear. Track owners are not a big fan of modern communications so I would not...
Honestly I don't understand your post as it is not so clear. Track owners are not a big fan of modern communications so I would not expect much of a reply from them!
Omg this is so true. This is the battle cra vs Oma is having. Cra wants to post a schedule and you come race. But it...
Omg this is so true. This is the battle cra vs Oma is having.

Cra wants to post a schedule and you come race. But it doesn't work that way anymore.

Oma is providing quality prepped tracks and they launched a huge social media campaign.

CRA is dieing. Oma is growing.....

Advertise damn it. And not on Facebook. Facebook sucks.
Georgie - Remember D12? CRA killed them. Karma?
KirkChandler
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1676
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Oceanside, CA US
3/23/2016 7:59pm
Really it depends on the scale of your operation. If you operate a 25 acre property or a 250 acre property. If there are enough riders in you area. You can make money running a track in both ways if you provide a fun safe track that a lot of riders want to ride, you won't get rich owning a motocross track, and if you do appear to be making money you'll start spending time in court because people assume you can afford it, or because you have insurance people will persue a lawsuit.

Having owned and operated several tracks it's a labor of love most days. There are days when it is very good, and days when you wonder why you put up with it. I feel if you ride yourself your track will be better and you will enjoy putting the time in to make it better.

Going back to the scale of operations, if you yourself can operate a dozer and build/prep tracks and water yourself for the days you are open and can limit your labor costs, equipment costs including (wear & tear) you'd be amazed at how many flats a water truck will get or how expensive a bull dozer under carriage (sprockets/track/pins) is and how often you need to replace them, you can make money. You will need less riders to break even. If you have to hire someone to build/prep then you need to make enough to cover the expense of a good track build/prepper because there's tons of people that can operate a dozer on flat ground, but can't build a proper track. You will need more riders to pay the staff.

Liability insurance isn't that expensive in the grand scheme of things, but if you have a bad record of injuries you will pay high rates. Some insurance is by the day, some is by the rider, some is by the year.

If you own the property at least you will have the capital improvements of building a score tower, starting gates, fencing, PA system, entrance booths, equipment garage, grand stands etc. if you are leasing the property the capital improvements will stay with the land.

There's lots that goes into it, but the reality is it can be done if you are in a friendly environment (city/county governments) and have enough riders to cover your costs. Make a good fun track for all skill levels, with good dirt, good prep, have flaggers and an EMT on site and you will do okay.
jtetchila1
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Indianapolis, IN US
3/24/2016 3:13pm
Racerx930 wrote:
"Endurocross type events"

Sounds like the bastards threatened to sue you also.
No threats, rather we wanted to concentrate on making sure everybody had fun and maybe not be to serious. With a name like Gonzocross, people know upfront that we are going to have fun first. Racer X TV actually did a story of us online and in the printed version and then came out to film our fall event.
PDUB481
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137
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3/3/2009
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O Fallon, IL US
3/24/2016 4:08pm
I'm a track owner, Love it. Lots an Lots of work. I do it because of a few reasons, needed a place to ride with my daughter and friends, an was tried of going to other tracks that didn't but the effort into it. Started as a practice track and now 10 years later we have one of the best tracks in the St. Louis area. Can you make money? Its very tuff to make ends meet, but if your start about it you can stay ahead of the game. www.archviewmxpark.com If you have any questions e-mail me www.pdub481@yahoo.com
nc_mx_kid
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1485
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3/6/2007
Location
Team Charlotte Motorsports, NC US
3/24/2016 4:27pm
start a track/riding area as a club and charge everyone a membership because you can't sue your own club that your a member of. I know several places that have operated this way
stone881
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856
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12/26/2014
Location
Fruita, CO US
3/24/2016 4:49pm
The traditional MX track model won't make you money unless your in a place like SoCal, or can host well known and large races.

It is actually the same problem if you have a ski area or a golf course, they operate the slopes/course to break even and rely on things like Food/Beverage and Real Estate to make money.

I have been involved in tracks in a variety of ways and had thought about opening one as well. After crunching the numbers, the traditional model just doesn't get it done. I think the future of MX tracks is something akin to a country club and I guess we are sort of seeing that with some of the newer full service type training facilities. But if you are counting on day users to make a living for you, you will not be having steak and lobster very often.
bob567
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767
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Location
Los Angeles, CA US
3/24/2016 7:15pm
stone881 wrote:
The traditional MX track model won't make you money unless your in a place like SoCal, or can host well known and large races. It is...
The traditional MX track model won't make you money unless your in a place like SoCal, or can host well known and large races.

It is actually the same problem if you have a ski area or a golf course, they operate the slopes/course to break even and rely on things like Food/Beverage and Real Estate to make money.

I have been involved in tracks in a variety of ways and had thought about opening one as well. After crunching the numbers, the traditional model just doesn't get it done. I think the future of MX tracks is something akin to a country club and I guess we are sort of seeing that with some of the newer full service type training facilities. But if you are counting on day users to make a living for you, you will not be having steak and lobster very often.
You are spot on. Country Club is the way to go. I pay $500 a year to golf and get there 3-5 times a year but I know any time I want to go I can. I pay $450 a year to do the same at the closest MX track. Great track, automatic solar watering system, groomed once a week, and they hold races once a month. Free camping anytime. Flush toilets. Best money I spend every year. I practice once a week and race once a month. Camping and ride all weekend on Holiday weekends. All said the $450 gets me around 20 ride days a year so $23 a day or $1 a lap. Tell me where you can find that much fun for that price. Insurance caps the memberships at 200 so its fairly exclusive. There is a waiting list for memberships. Excluding race days, food sales, etc that $90,000 is the yearly start up money to host the 9 races which pay for themselves. This is a solid business model and fully sustainable.
3/25/2016 4:26am
I run a practice track in NorthEastern Indiana. We have an LLC setup but I still am not certain its bulletproof.
Equipment wise we have:
1968 International water truck
2004 F450 water truck
Case 310 dozer (Not big enough)
Oliver 1850/cultivator/chisel
Ford 4000/grader box
Case 580E backhoe
I probably run 15 days a year. So not much. I do improvements and all work myself and last year I landed at making about 25 per hour time spent at track. I do it on a bear minimum and have never depreciated equipment into the equation. I use equipment for other things so I dont soak the cost into the track. Feel free to message me any questions.

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