Blue flag.....

Cashmore
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Cashmore 2/28/2016 11:50am
2/28/2016 11:50am
I think stewart is ok on this one, marv came up short and james held his line
MillsHondaRider 2/28/2016 12:49pm
2/28/2016 12:49pm
According to the text in the rule book, James did nothing wrong. However, James made the wrong decision. Him continuing to race the leaders was much different than how both Canard and the Friese (or was it Alessi?) conceded the spots in the previous corners. IMO, he should have let both MM and RD by going down the start straight. He had to have known they were right there in the 180 before... He did hold the inside line in the whoops but ended up in the middle of a bowl turn with the 2 leaders who were battling for the lead on the last lap. He impacted line choice / decisions of both riders. Yea, Marvin blew the section, but do you think he would have missed the triple if he had a clear track?

So KTM goes 1 -2 instead of 2 - 1 and it actually helped their championship effort. If MM had made the triple (or decided to go 2 - 3), he likely would have won.

I will give James a little slack because this is the first time that I can ever recall that he flat out got lapped (when it didn't involve a crash). Perhaps he felt he was doing enough to stay out of the way, but he didn't.

Radical
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Radical 2/28/2016 6:23pm
2/28/2016 6:23pm
Radical wrote:
Since there are 3 threads on this topic, I'll post this here too. For the record, whenever anyone says lapped riders should pull over and get...
Since there are 3 threads on this topic, I'll post this here too.

For the record, whenever anyone says lapped riders should pull over and get out of the way, they are pulling that out of their butt. The rules say hold your line, don't cross over, just hold your line.

If riders pull over when they see a blue flag, that's their decision, but it is not what the blue flag requires.

Stewart did it right. He turned the corner, then took the far left line and stayed there. He held his line. There was plenty of room for everyone else.

Marvin should be mad only that he screwed up under pressure.
It was a great ride for him. This week he did not get it done. He should own up to it, and come back strong next week.

BTW: I went riding today at Pala, and it was awesome! I had to throw that in there.
StartedTooLate wrote:
The rules also say you should not impede the race. He did. He was mid track in the corner. He should have checked up and let...
The rules also say you should not impede the race. He did. He was mid track in the corner. He should have checked up and let MM and RD have the whole corner. It is the last damn lap of the race, and two guys are racing for the win.

Watch how they are spread out coming into the whoops. MM is right on James, and RD is a half sec back. In the LH corner right after the whoops, MM is still hung up on Stew, but now RD is right on MM. How did that happen? It happened because James' momentum took him from full left in the whoops, to 2/3 right in the corner. How is that holding your line?

Stew DID IMPEDE THE LEADERS by not checking up in the whoops. His line took him half way up the berm...which is 2/3 of the way across the track. How can anyone say he held his line? He did not. He was full left in the whoops, and 2/3 right in the LH turn, and then back to full left in the rythm section. He should have checked up in the whoops so he could have stayed all the way down in the flat apron on the LH 180.

Stop at 2:21

I agree. He should've taken the corner tighter.
Radical
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Radical 2/28/2016 6:34pm
2/28/2016 6:34pm
Radical wrote:
Since there are 3 threads on this topic, I'll post this here too. For the record, whenever anyone says lapped riders should pull over and get...
Since there are 3 threads on this topic, I'll post this here too.

For the record, whenever anyone says lapped riders should pull over and get out of the way, they are pulling that out of their butt. The rules say hold your line, don't cross over, just hold your line.

If riders pull over when they see a blue flag, that's their decision, but it is not what the blue flag requires.

Stewart did it right. He turned the corner, then took the far left line and stayed there. He held his line. There was plenty of room for everyone else.

Marvin should be mad only that he screwed up under pressure.
It was a great ride for him. This week he did not get it done. He should own up to it, and come back strong next week.

BTW: I went riding today at Pala, and it was awesome! I had to throw that in there.
StartedTooLate wrote:
The rules also say you should not impede the race. He did. He was mid track in the corner. He should have checked up and let...
The rules also say you should not impede the race. He did. He was mid track in the corner. He should have checked up and let MM and RD have the whole corner. It is the last damn lap of the race, and two guys are racing for the win.

Watch how they are spread out coming into the whoops. MM is right on James, and RD is a half sec back. In the LH corner right after the whoops, MM is still hung up on Stew, but now RD is right on MM. How did that happen? It happened because James' momentum took him from full left in the whoops, to 2/3 right in the corner. How is that holding your line?

Stew DID IMPEDE THE LEADERS by not checking up in the whoops. His line took him half way up the berm...which is 2/3 of the way across the track. How can anyone say he held his line? He did not. He was full left in the whoops, and 2/3 right in the LH turn, and then back to full left in the rythm section. He should have checked up in the whoops so he could have stayed all the way down in the flat apron on the LH 180.

Stop at 2:21

Radical wrote:
I agree. He should've taken the corner tighter.
After reviewing the video again, I think Stewart did the right thing. He was far left through the whoops, he didn't drive up high into the corner, he was pretty mellow, leaving room to go around him, then stayed to the far left in the rhythm section. He didn't fight for position, and left plenty of room for everyone to go around him.

He could've pulled back and took a tighter line in the corner, but the way he handled being lapped was completely acceptable.

The real question is whether riders should slow down and pull over for the blue flag. Currently, they are not required to.

This should set the context:
If Dungey crashed and got lapped by the top 5 before getting his bike started, is he allowed to pass the top 5, un-lap himself, then work his butt off to pass himself back into the points?

1. If the answer is yes, then James, and any other rider that is blue flagged should not slow down. They should do what James did, keep his pace, keep his line, and and not cross over.

2. If the answer is no, then we need to set new rules, and have people slow down and get out of the way.

Personally, I like Answer #1

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bents 2/28/2016 6:40pm
2/28/2016 6:40pm
Celine wrote:
There was a race going on. Stewart wasn't in it. Stewart needed to get the fuck out of the way or off the track to let...
There was a race going on. Stewart wasn't in it. Stewart needed to get the fuck out of the way or off the track to let Musquin and Dungey settle the outcome of the race.

Exactly. I'm glad James is back but he needed to yield much sooner. Bottom line imho.
Tumblin
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Tumblin 2/28/2016 7:39pm
2/28/2016 7:39pm
Well he sure as hell didn't need to triple down that straight, I suppose he could have not seen that blue flag?
It did suck, I'm sure he also feels bad that he may have had an effect on the outcome.
Fruittag
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Fruittag 2/28/2016 7:44pm
2/28/2016 7:44pm Edited Date/Time 2/28/2016 7:45pm
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not be expected to understand the rules and be provided extra hand holding? Social programs for licensed AMA dirtbike racers?
mxb2
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mxb2 2/28/2016 7:55pm
2/28/2016 7:55pm
Fruittag wrote:
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not...
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not be expected to understand the rules and be provided extra hand holding? Social programs for licensed AMA dirtbike racers?
Pretty sure,they get a rule book with their pro card.
500guy
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500guy 2/28/2016 8:19pm
2/28/2016 8:19pm
Fruittag wrote:
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not...
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not be expected to understand the rules and be provided extra hand holding? Social programs for licensed AMA dirtbike racers?
mxb2 wrote:
Pretty sure,they get a rule book with their pro card.
You think someone who didn't know about the drug testing rules would give a shit about the blue flag rule ?

Maybe no rules were broken but the race out come was altered by negligence.
mxb2
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mxb2 2/28/2016 8:26pm
2/28/2016 8:26pm
Fruittag wrote:
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not...
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not be expected to understand the rules and be provided extra hand holding? Social programs for licensed AMA dirtbike racers?
mxb2 wrote:
Pretty sure,they get a rule book with their pro card.
500guy wrote:
You think someone who didn't know about the drug testing rules would give a shit about the blue flag rule ? Maybe no rules were broken...
You think someone who didn't know about the drug testing rules would give a shit about the blue flag rule ?

Maybe no rules were broken but the race out come was altered by negligence.
Point being,ama rules ,not knowing them is not an excuse.
John250
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John250 2/28/2016 8:34pm
2/28/2016 8:34pm
Bubba got the Blue flag three maybe four times! Coming down the flat start straight before the finish line corner, he should have let off and pulled to the side and let the leaders go. Common sense tells anyone of us that race that is what you should do in that situation when your a back marker and guys are racing for the lead.
Moto331
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Moto331 2/28/2016 8:36pm
2/28/2016 8:36pm
crusher773 wrote:
Blue flag on the last lap he should have yielded in those whoops a little and let them go.
I don't think you can slow down those giant whoops..
Fruittag
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Fruittag 2/28/2016 8:46pm
2/28/2016 8:46pm
Fruittag wrote:
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not...
Maybe it's the AMA's fault for not holding a remedial "the flags of supercross training"? Certainly a dude that doesn't understand the WADA code should not be expected to understand the rules and be provided extra hand holding? Social programs for licensed AMA dirtbike racers?
mxb2 wrote:
Pretty sure,they get a rule book with their pro card.
500guy wrote:
You think someone who didn't know about the drug testing rules would give a shit about the blue flag rule ? Maybe no rules were broken...
You think someone who didn't know about the drug testing rules would give a shit about the blue flag rule ?

Maybe no rules were broken but the race out come was altered by negligence.
Thanks for clarifying for those that didn't get the joke.
Mr. G
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Mr. G 2/28/2016 8:50pm
2/28/2016 8:50pm
What if both are just a little bit wrong?
VRR7
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VRR7 2/28/2016 9:42pm
2/28/2016 9:42pm
When did James gas it ? He was riding cruise mode out of the way. If James gassed it the KTM's would have had no chance - James sees a triple he just pops over it easy MM cases it - Now James gassed it ? Search you tube you will see James gassing it ! This was not one of those times. That's why everyone is upset. KTM fastest struggled to overtake JS in cruise mode . That why they had him taken out in A1 the only way they can win. Now them and their supporters are all lets blame the black boy.
Fruittag
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Fruittag 2/28/2016 9:44pm
2/28/2016 9:44pm
VRR7 wrote:
When did James gas it ? He was riding cruise mode out of the way. If James gassed it the KTM's would have had no chance...
When did James gas it ? He was riding cruise mode out of the way. If James gassed it the KTM's would have had no chance - James sees a triple he just pops over it easy MM cases it - Now James gassed it ? Search you tube you will see James gassing it ! This was not one of those times. That's why everyone is upset. KTM fastest struggled to overtake JS in cruise mode . That why they had him taken out in A1 the only way they can win. Now them and their supporters are all lets blame the black boy.
Just shut up already.
teggers
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teggers 2/28/2016 10:05pm
2/28/2016 10:05pm
FLmxer wrote:
Amazing how calculated and precise you pro nothings are that you can avoid any situation in a pro race. Good thing you guys are not out...
Amazing how calculated and precise you pro nothings are that you can avoid any situation in a pro race. Good thing you guys are not out there or we may of never of heard of James Stewart or Rickey Carmichael. It's racing. Things happen, you boys couldn't hold your line in a Mac truck.
Just disappointed for the first (ok 2nd) decent race this season (maybe even a few years) being determined by a lapper.

MM hits that jump 19 straight laps.

The whole situation was so dangerous. It could have taken out 2 of the top 5 in the championship. And I mean really taken out.
malachi177
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malachi177 2/28/2016 10:27pm
2/28/2016 10:27pm
TripleFive wrote:
Why didn't Marvin take the line he had been all night in the corner before?

Maybe because Big James was in it.
Boom! End of discussion.

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Flynn842
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Flynn842 2/28/2016 10:28pm
2/28/2016 10:28pm
No matter what James did or does he's going to be in the wrong. He could have moved over and possibly blocked one of the leaders, he could have taken I different line in the corner and collided with Marvin or dung. He doesn't know what line they are goin to choose, that's why it means hold your line. That is what he did. Dung passed him clean in the corner and was smooth through the rhythm section. Marvin plain lost it. He came up short and then squid out. I've been issued a blue flag before. In an imca mod and on a bike. You can't see behind you all I knew was they were getting ready to lap me. I held my line and let the leaders do their thing. I feel like James did what he had to do. He didn't hit anyone didn't block anyone he held his line. But he's the guy everyone loves to hate so he will be wrong regardless
Mit12
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Mit12 2/28/2016 11:26pm
2/28/2016 11:26pm
You mean the Stew flag?
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FLmxer 2/29/2016 5:55am
2/29/2016 5:55am
teggers wrote:
Just disappointed for the first (ok 2nd) decent race this season (maybe even a few years) being determined by a lapper. MM hits that jump 19...
Just disappointed for the first (ok 2nd) decent race this season (maybe even a few years) being determined by a lapper.

MM hits that jump 19 straight laps.

The whole situation was so dangerous. It could have taken out 2 of the top 5 in the championship. And I mean really taken out.
Yea My post was a little aggressive. Lol. James should of let them pass a few corners before. It was a strange and dangerous incident.
PClaerhout 2/29/2016 6:04am
2/29/2016 6:04am
Im a huge Stewart fan, but not a blind one. He shoulda slowed down before that turn, or slowed to the very inside like countless riders have done for him over the years. Getting up in the middle of that turn andnin the way had to of messed Marvins concentration up a bit...and thats all it takes. Just like when Stewart crashed outdoors when he saw that track guy cross over. One small distraction is all it takes.

But lets be real. Its probably the first time in his career hes been in that position so it probably wasn't intentional.
huck
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huck 2/29/2016 6:12am
2/29/2016 6:12am
PClaerhout wrote:
Im a huge Stewart fan, but not a blind one. He shoulda slowed down before that turn, or slowed to the very inside like countless riders...
Im a huge Stewart fan, but not a blind one. He shoulda slowed down before that turn, or slowed to the very inside like countless riders have done for him over the years. Getting up in the middle of that turn andnin the way had to of messed Marvins concentration up a bit...and thats all it takes. Just like when Stewart crashed outdoors when he saw that track guy cross over. One small distraction is all it takes.

But lets be real. Its probably the first time in his career hes been in that position so it probably wasn't intentional.
James has been lapped a few times...and has lapped countless other riders. He should have known...
Stefan82
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Stefan82 2/29/2016 6:14am
2/29/2016 6:14am
Blue flag means there's a Yamaha behind you do not let him or any other pass.
MXMattii
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MXMattii 2/29/2016 8:36am
2/29/2016 8:36am










(Staying on the Inside?)





James Stewart looking over on the Start straight



More clearly to see at the video.
ToolMaker 2/29/2016 8:39am
2/29/2016 8:39am
Radical wrote:
Since there are 3 threads on this topic, I'll post this here too. For the record, whenever anyone says lapped riders should pull over and get...
Since there are 3 threads on this topic, I'll post this here too.

For the record, whenever anyone says lapped riders should pull over and get out of the way, they are pulling that out of their butt. The rules say hold your line, don't cross over, just hold your line.

If riders pull over when they see a blue flag, that's their decision, but it is not what the blue flag requires.

Stewart did it right. He turned the corner, then took the far left line and stayed there. He held his line. There was plenty of room for everyone else.

Marvin should be mad only that he screwed up under pressure.
It was a great ride for him. This week he did not get it done. He should own up to it, and come back strong next week.

BTW: I went riding today at Pala, and it was awesome! I had to throw that in there.
Actually, it says "when conditions allow to get out to the fast line" which is to "infer"
that you will be going slower as to let the faster riders by.
Then the next instruction is to "hold your line and not impede the faster riders"
This means you are to do both, not one or the other.
You cannot cherry pick your words or order of instructions. The same as you assemble an engine in order,
you wouldn't expect to install the piston last.
TM
Is Pala better or worse now operating under the new management?
Ted722
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Ted722 2/29/2016 9:43am
2/29/2016 9:43am
Looking forward to seeing the Zapruder film, I mean GoPro footage on this one.
Moto331
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Moto331 2/29/2016 9:45am
2/29/2016 9:45am
Trust me I would of loved to of seen james pull over on the start straight and let them by so we could of had a good battle on the final lap, but James did hold his line.. If you are getting lapped then the faster riders should be able to go right around you. Hold your line. But a part of me doesn't like how high James went up on that last berm though..
rcm406
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rcm406 2/29/2016 9:50am
2/29/2016 9:50am
Flynn842 wrote:
No matter what James did or does he's going to be in the wrong. He could have moved over and possibly blocked one of the leaders...
No matter what James did or does he's going to be in the wrong. He could have moved over and possibly blocked one of the leaders, he could have taken I different line in the corner and collided with Marvin or dung. He doesn't know what line they are goin to choose, that's why it means hold your line. That is what he did. Dung passed him clean in the corner and was smooth through the rhythm section. Marvin plain lost it. He came up short and then squid out. I've been issued a blue flag before. In an imca mod and on a bike. You can't see behind you all I knew was they were getting ready to lap me. I held my line and let the leaders do their thing. I feel like James did what he had to do. He didn't hit anyone didn't block anyone he held his line. But he's the guy everyone loves to hate so he will be wrong regardless
OMFG, somebody here with some common sense! Get this shit out of here!Wink
Firefly47
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Firefly47 2/29/2016 9:50am
2/29/2016 9:50am
Imagine the bellyaching from everyone had Stewart been leading that race.

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