Rick Johnson Disapointment

mxtech1
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mxtech1 10/28/2015 9:48am
10/28/2015 9:48am
I understand they used him as an expert witness, but I would have to argue that there is little to no actual data to support his comments. If you really think about it, how many times do bikes and quads come together during open practice sessions? I guarantee it's not as many times as a bike has come in contact with another bike. Think about it.

Just because quads don't run the same lines as bikes and they blow out berms, how does that make it more unsafe? We need data, and it doesn't exists.

An "A" rider isn't riding the same lines as a "C" rider or mini riders. Yet think how often they are on the track together. I always got the most nervous being on the track when I knew there were beginner or mini riders on the track. Quads never bothered me, other than the fact that they blow out berms and pack ruts.

Don't get me wrong, I don't support quads being mixed in with bikes, i'm just saying we don't have any data for an expert witness to make factual claims. They are largely biased based on that individual's personal opinions.
Mxrider656
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Mxrider656 10/28/2015 9:48am
10/28/2015 9:48am
newmann wrote:
Did you want RJ to perjure himself?
Not at all, just refuse the amount of money he got from the prosecutor to fly across the country and testify in court. It was a low blow in my opinion.
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hvaughn88 10/28/2015 9:49am
10/28/2015 9:49am
It's an interesting first post, to say the least, 10 years after the fact.
newmann
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newmann 10/28/2015 9:51am
10/28/2015 9:51am
newmann wrote:
Did you want RJ to perjure himself?
Mxrider656 wrote:
Not at all, just refuse the amount of money he got from the prosecutor to fly across the country and testify in court. It was a...
Not at all, just refuse the amount of money he got from the prosecutor to fly across the country and testify in court. It was a low blow in my opinion.
You wanted him to fly across the country on his own dime to testify?

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JaredPartridge 10/28/2015 9:51am
10/28/2015 9:51am
Quads on tracks with bikes is stupid. And the whole 'look out for yourself' argument is invalid when a majority of quad riders think they own the track when they're on it. Some ass-hat on a quad thought it'd be a good idea to jump from the right side to the left side of the track, where my line was, and I ended up coming right down on his back wheel/fender. Cartwheeled about 20 feet and the bike flew off the side of track. Bent subframe, ruined exhaust and bars. Funny part about it, he knew I was there. Guy looked over at me in the corner before and decided he wanted to race me. On a practice day.
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jeffro503 10/28/2015 9:52am
10/28/2015 9:52am
Mxrider656 wrote:
The disappointment in Rick comes from a place in my mind that riders are suppose to stick together, insurance did go way up, making the bills...
The disappointment in Rick comes from a place in my mind that riders are suppose to stick together, insurance did go way up, making the bills harder to pay, therefor track is gone.
Uncle Tony wrote:
I don't know what his insurance payment was and I'm sure it was high but he got sued in the late 90's and sold it last...
I don't know what his insurance payment was and I'm sure it was high but he got sued in the late 90's and sold it last year, and rumor is he's looking to open another track on the island (I don't believe rumors) riders sticking together that's something I have never seen in 45 years of moto
Mxrider656 wrote:
This lawsuit was from the mid 2000s and there is a way to tell it like it is- but does that mean going to this extent...
This lawsuit was from the mid 2000s and there is a way to tell it like it is- but does that mean going to this extent, taking sides of someone that is actually suing you a local track. A track that the owners put their heart and soul into? I have to disagree with Johnsons move.
He had to tell his honest "opinion " on the matter , which just so happens to be the same as any other MX rider that shares the track with quads.....they don't belong out there together.

So it may of bugged you ( what 10yrs ago? )....it doesn't seem to bug anyone else on this forum , because we all feel the same way Rick does about the subject.

Do you not get that?
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dsmith 10/28/2015 9:53am
10/28/2015 9:53am
hvaughn88 wrote:
It's an interesting first post, to say the least, 10 years after the fact.
yeah...very peculiar ....
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jeffro503 10/28/2015 9:54am
10/28/2015 9:54am
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing the classes.
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peelout 10/28/2015 10:04am
10/28/2015 10:04am
hvaughn88 wrote:
It's an interesting first post, to say the least, 10 years after the fact.
dsmith wrote:
yeah...very peculiar ....
sometimes the best agenda is a hidden agenda
Uncle Tony
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Uncle Tony 10/28/2015 10:05am
10/28/2015 10:05am
jeffro503 wrote:
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing...
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing the classes.
Jeffro the track didn't get shut down because of a lawsuit, he sold it that's all, he had a good ten years after the lawsuit, and now he's looking to open another track, and like newmann said was RJ suppose to not answer a court subpoena? Or lie on the stand? There are a couple of disgruntled exmembers that weren't paying at his track and now they have to pay a thousand a year to ride at ronkonkoma, I'm beginning to think this guy is one of them, plenty of places to ride on Long Island and yes its exspensive but this is New York
mx510
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mx510 10/28/2015 10:16am
10/28/2015 10:16am
He is right.
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jeffro503 10/28/2015 10:18am
10/28/2015 10:18am
jeffro503 wrote:
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing...
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing the classes.
Uncle Tony wrote:
Jeffro the track didn't get shut down because of a lawsuit, he sold it that's all, he had a good ten years after the lawsuit, and...
Jeffro the track didn't get shut down because of a lawsuit, he sold it that's all, he had a good ten years after the lawsuit, and now he's looking to open another track, and like newmann said was RJ suppose to not answer a court subpoena? Or lie on the stand? There are a couple of disgruntled exmembers that weren't paying at his track and now they have to pay a thousand a year to ride at ronkonkoma, I'm beginning to think this guy is one of them, plenty of places to ride on Long Island and yes its exspensive but this is New York
Ahh I see Tony. Thanks for the heads up.
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Mxrider656 10/28/2015 10:41am
10/28/2015 10:41am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 10:44am
jeffro503 wrote:
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing...
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing the classes.
Uncle Tony wrote:
Jeffro the track didn't get shut down because of a lawsuit, he sold it that's all, he had a good ten years after the lawsuit, and...
Jeffro the track didn't get shut down because of a lawsuit, he sold it that's all, he had a good ten years after the lawsuit, and now he's looking to open another track, and like newmann said was RJ suppose to not answer a court subpoena? Or lie on the stand? There are a couple of disgruntled exmembers that weren't paying at his track and now they have to pay a thousand a year to ride at ronkonkoma, I'm beginning to think this guy is one of them, plenty of places to ride on Long Island and yes its exspensive but this is New York
Johnson was paid to be an expert witness, was not subpoenaed by all means. Would McGrath do it? No way. Rick Johnson was looking to make a quick buck and hope that the issue was never brought about. I rode at the track quite a bit and do know that the lawsuit effected the track in a negative way.
I'm not saying quads should be allowed on the track, just saying I think its selfish of Johnson to make some extra money this way.
Reefer Sutherland 10/28/2015 10:45am
10/28/2015 10:45am
Reefer Sutherland wrote:
Quads won't seem as evil anymore when these tracks start turning themselves into UTV facilities and doing away with bikes all together. The writing is on...
Quads won't seem as evil anymore when these tracks start turning themselves into UTV facilities and doing away with bikes all together. The writing is on the wall. The market is blowing up, the tracks are all broke, and they can charge those yuppies 75 bucks for a ride day, vs 25-40 for a small amount of bikes.

The Honda Odyssey was choked away because bikes were much more popular in the mid 80s than they are now. This time around, it won't be the same. I think the UTVs are going to win the war of the riding areas.
Titan1 wrote:
What would a UTV facility look like? But you're probably right...all the morons on UTV's are getting public land riding areas closed...so they'll have to drive...
What would a UTV facility look like?

But you're probably right...all the morons on UTV's are getting public land riding areas closed...so they'll have to drive them somewhere...so maybe tracks will bulldoze the mx track and build a hybrid race truck course (whatever they call those trucks McGrath and Degan race) to cater to them.

But those would only be fun on the RZR's...all the true utility UTV's wouldn't enjoy riding a race track...
I mean, it'll look like the motocross track you used to go to weekly, when the owner figures out they can double their yearly earnings by filling in the doubles, widening a couple areas, and telling bikes to fuck off.

That's what I meant by UTVs. Whatever you call the fast ones with 10K in suspension that break every single time you take them out. But hey, they have beer holders and accommodate even the fattest of asses.
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hvaughn88 10/28/2015 10:54am
10/28/2015 10:54am Edited Date/Time 10/28/2015 11:10am
jeffro503 wrote:
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing...
BTW , it's a bummer the track got shut down. But the people that operate it should have known something bad was going to happen mixing the classes.
Uncle Tony wrote:
Jeffro the track didn't get shut down because of a lawsuit, he sold it that's all, he had a good ten years after the lawsuit, and...
Jeffro the track didn't get shut down because of a lawsuit, he sold it that's all, he had a good ten years after the lawsuit, and now he's looking to open another track, and like newmann said was RJ suppose to not answer a court subpoena? Or lie on the stand? There are a couple of disgruntled exmembers that weren't paying at his track and now they have to pay a thousand a year to ride at ronkonkoma, I'm beginning to think this guy is one of them, plenty of places to ride on Long Island and yes its exspensive but this is New York
Mxrider656 wrote:
Johnson was paid to be an expert witness, was not subpoenaed by all means. Would McGrath do it? No way. Rick Johnson was looking to make...
Johnson was paid to be an expert witness, was not subpoenaed by all means. Would McGrath do it? No way. Rick Johnson was looking to make a quick buck and hope that the issue was never brought about. I rode at the track quite a bit and do know that the lawsuit effected the track in a negative way.
I'm not saying quads should be allowed on the track, just saying I think its selfish of Johnson to make some extra money this way.
Sounds like you need to build a bridge and get over it.
Camp332
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Camp332 10/28/2015 11:02am
10/28/2015 11:02am
This thread is weird.
newmann
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newmann 10/28/2015 11:18am
10/28/2015 11:18am
How much did RJ get paid?

Funny how people here think it is so wrong to sue a track (as do I)yet they will jump at the opportunity to "lawyer up" for anything else at the drop of a hat. Fender bender in your car? Lawyer Up! Medical Malpractice? Lawyer Up! Get run over by a water truck or tractor on a motocross track? Ermahgawd, how dare you sue you track suing scum!!
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Bodieg3 10/28/2015 11:45am
10/28/2015 11:45am
dsmith wrote:
[img]https://forgifs.com/gallery/d/81313-2/ATV_Quad_crash.gif[/img]
Had to bring that one up huh ! Happened bout 40 miles from here n winter ax race . Bikes and quads under no circumstance belong on track at same time . The video shows the biggest problem with the quadtards we have around here .

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DonM
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DonM 10/28/2015 12:31pm
10/28/2015 12:31pm
Mxrider656 wrote:
I was listening to another great podcast from the Pulp MX show and was a bit bothered when I heard Rick Johnson come on the air...
I was listening to another great podcast from the Pulp MX show and was a bit bothered when I heard Rick Johnson come on the air.

Back about ten years ago our local track on Long Island had a pretty big lawsuit going on, it involved a local dirtbike and a quad rider. Rick Johnson was flown in by the prosecutions lawyer and testified in a court of law that it is unsafe for a quad and dirbike to be on a track at the same time. Though myself, have mixed feelings about the issue I always thought that it was not the right thing to do. The track did loose the lawsuit and severely affected our local track.

Any thoughts?
You ride quads?
JustMX
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JustMX 10/28/2015 1:49pm
10/28/2015 1:49pm
If it was a civil suit isn't it much more likely that he went out as an expert witness?

How much jurisdiction does a judge overseeing a civil suit in new York have to subpoena a witness in California if they are not named as a party in the litigation?
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motosmith 10/28/2015 2:00pm
10/28/2015 2:00pm
dsmith wrote:
[img]https://forgifs.com/gallery/d/81313-2/ATV_Quad_crash.gif[/img]

The throttle is still pinned when he lands off the wall. Hilarious.
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Spartacus 10/28/2015 2:10pm
10/28/2015 2:10pm
Mxrider656 wrote:
The disappointment in Rick comes from a place in my mind that riders are suppose to stick together, insurance did go way up, making the bills...
The disappointment in Rick comes from a place in my mind that riders are suppose to stick together, insurance did go way up, making the bills harder to pay, therefor track is gone.
My take is the "riders" did stick together. I've never seen him on a quad.

Wouldn't blame him for the track going belly up.
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Uncle Tony 10/28/2015 2:18pm
10/28/2015 2:18pm
I'm beginning to wonder about this guy, the track didn't go belly up because of RJ's testimony as a matter of fact the track did quite well after the law suit and sold for a large amount of money, this is just a joke
40Plus_922mx
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40Plus_922mx 10/28/2015 2:59pm
10/28/2015 2:59pm
You don't just pick sides based on your position on any specific issue. If you are an mxer and hate seeing tracks getting closed do you then tailor your opinion or version of the truth to support your side? No that's what liberals do. The truth does not matter if you win in their minds. In this case RJ was giving an honest opinion of an industry professional.

Unfortunately it went against an industry that he loves and is involved in deeply. But it was true.

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jhansen510 10/28/2015 8:59pm
10/28/2015 8:59pm
mjr119 wrote:
I think it's pretty puss a fied to sue a track. Unless it's gross negligence. I agree, quads and bikes should not be on the same...
I think it's pretty puss a fied to sue a track. Unless it's gross negligence. I agree, quads and bikes should not be on the same track at the same time. But I've been to plenty of tracks back in the day that had a quad or two practicing with the big bikes.
Subrogation. Look it up.
mjr119 10/29/2015 5:58am
10/29/2015 5:58am
mjr119 wrote:
I think it's pretty puss a fied to sue a track. Unless it's gross negligence. I agree, quads and bikes should not be on the same...
I think it's pretty puss a fied to sue a track. Unless it's gross negligence. I agree, quads and bikes should not be on the same track at the same time. But I've been to plenty of tracks back in the day that had a quad or two practicing with the big bikes.
jhansen510 wrote:
Subrogation. Look it up.
I am very familiar with the term. It actually does NOT apply to all states. So Im not sure if it applies in this case.
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Moto810 10/29/2015 3:15pm
10/29/2015 3:15pm
I think we can all agree that 4 wheelers should not be on the track with bikes. Just as big bikes should not be on the track with 50's. It is one thing for a track to have legal issues over a normal accident but it is another thing not to even try to use common sense. Tracks should take safety as their number one concern as should the industry.
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Tradmark 10/29/2015 3:57pm
10/29/2015 3:57pm
Reefer Sutherland wrote:
Quads won't seem as evil anymore when these tracks start turning themselves into UTV facilities and doing away with bikes all together. The writing is on...
Quads won't seem as evil anymore when these tracks start turning themselves into UTV facilities and doing away with bikes all together. The writing is on the wall. The market is blowing up, the tracks are all broke, and they can charge those yuppies 75 bucks for a ride day, vs 25-40 for a small amount of bikes.

The Honda Odyssey was choked away because bikes were much more popular in the mid 80s than they are now. This time around, it won't be the same. I think the UTVs are going to win the war of the riding areas.
Titan1 wrote:
What would a UTV facility look like? But you're probably right...all the morons on UTV's are getting public land riding areas closed...so they'll have to drive...
What would a UTV facility look like?

But you're probably right...all the morons on UTV's are getting public land riding areas closed...so they'll have to drive them somewhere...so maybe tracks will bulldoze the mx track and build a hybrid race truck course (whatever they call those trucks McGrath and Degan race) to cater to them.

But those would only be fun on the RZR's...all the true utility UTV's wouldn't enjoy riding a race track...
Reefer Sutherland wrote:
I mean, it'll look like the motocross track you used to go to weekly, when the owner figures out they can double their yearly earnings by...
I mean, it'll look like the motocross track you used to go to weekly, when the owner figures out they can double their yearly earnings by filling in the doubles, widening a couple areas, and telling bikes to fuck off.

That's what I meant by UTVs. Whatever you call the fast ones with 10K in suspension that break every single time you take them out. But hey, they have beer holders and accommodate even the fattest of asses.
So true. The thing i dont get is the idea that ya sue someone for that. If ya dont like to ride with quads dont ride a track that allows it. If ya get hurt doing it dont go back but everyone needs to quit suing everyone else. This is why so much land is closed for any recreation. Due to lawsuits no one will let anyone do anything on any land they own. Where we live theres an informal lil track people have been riding for 20 years. Locals maintained it and u could ride for free anytime. Due to the lawsuit mentality the owner decided to quit letting people ride there a few years ago just because he might get sued. I imagine this happens hundreds of times each year. Its fing ridiculous
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zehn 10/29/2015 4:10pm
10/29/2015 4:10pm
Mxrider656 wrote:
Johnson was paid to be an expert witness, was not subpoenaed by all means. Would McGrath do it? No way. Rick Johnson was looking to make...
Johnson was paid to be an expert witness, was not subpoenaed by all means. Would McGrath do it? No way. Rick Johnson was looking to make a quick buck and hope that the issue was never brought about. I rode at the track quite a bit and do know that the lawsuit effected the track in a negative way.
I'm not saying quads should be allowed on the track, just saying I think its selfish of Johnson to make some extra money this way.
Your position is ridiculous. Are you the track owner's best friend or something?

His intentions aside, is it a bigger issue that Rick Johnson was paid (probably not very much) to be an expert witness and testified exactly how any rider would, or that the track was happily putting riders in danger, while making money doing it?

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