Geico using pro bikes in amateurs

sesker15
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sesker15 7/31/2015 7:39am
7/31/2015 7:39am
Gringoe wrote:
That article means what exactly?
"According to Hampshire’s mechanic, Shawn Irwin, you can’t get real crazy with exotic parts in the amateur ranks without people wanting to protest you or claim your bike, but RJ’s bike still has some cool items to talk about".
Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 7:41am
7/31/2015 7:41am
Gringoe wrote:
That article means what exactly?
sesker15 wrote:
"According to Hampshire’s mechanic, Shawn Irwin, you can’t get real crazy with exotic parts in the amateur ranks without people wanting to protest you or claim...
"According to Hampshire’s mechanic, Shawn Irwin, you can’t get real crazy with exotic parts in the amateur ranks without people wanting to protest you or claim your bike, but RJ’s bike still has some cool items to talk about".
That's earth shattering stuff man!
j100
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j100 7/31/2015 7:42am
7/31/2015 7:42am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 7:44am
I'm just letting you guys know that geico does NOT give any amature kid a pro bike. I know for a fact the bikes are a lot different.

that being said, the bikes they give the amateur kids are fast.

Mitch isn't going to give Austin a full blown bike that can be claimed and neither is Bobby or Tyler.

Sorry to tell you guys but the bikes these kids are on are not pro bikes.
ML512
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ML512 7/31/2015 7:43am
7/31/2015 7:43am
Gringoe wrote:
No I don't because he's not..
ML512 wrote:
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go...
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go to take care of it. Austin has been testing with the team quite a bit on their bike here in California.

I remember in the past that Factory Connection actually didn't send their guys to Amateur nationals with full spec engines, but it does seem like that changed last year. There were a lot more parts on those bikes... but Charbaneau's actually has a bit less compared to what I saw last year. I also kinda doubted they would send him with a complete race bike, because they are supposed to be letting him go after this race. They aren't giving him the support into the pros.

Star also had a rider on a full-race bike at an amateur event before...


Gringoe wrote:
Wasn't the star thing one and done though? I didn't think they did it more than once or twice. Didn't know that they were letting charbaneau...
Wasn't the star thing one and done though? I didn't think they did it more than once or twice.

Didn't know that they were letting charbaneau go, making room for forkner?
Going after Forkner (as of last I heard, the deal still isn't signed but it's been in the table for a few weeks now) and they already signed Sexton (that's why Sexton isn't on a Star Yamaha at LL's).

They'll need room, as Forkner wants to turn pro at Glen Helen next year and do the full outdoors. If they get both him and Sexton, I wouldn't be surprised to see Sexton wait a little longer to go pro. If they both move up for outdoors, that'll be one heck of a busy rig...

At Mammoth, there was a lot of talk that they weren't really happy with Tristan's performances all year and he would be let go. There's literally been no talk or comments about him joining the team next year and they already have four guys signed (Craig, Stewart, Smith, and Hampshire, while they are letting Bisceglia go).

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stillwelding
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stillwelding 7/31/2015 7:47am
7/31/2015 7:47am
Gringoe wrote:
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes...
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
You want to go motorcycle racing? That's what's allowed? Bring the wheelbarrow of cash or get the rules changed (good luck with that). Fair? No.
TXDirt
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TXDirt 7/31/2015 7:48am
7/31/2015 7:48am
Question wrote:
I have no viewpoint on using pro equipment in the highest level in amateur racing, before turning pro. I just reply because the 95% rider &...

I have no viewpoint on using pro equipment in the highest level in amateur racing, before turning pro.

I just reply because the 95% rider & 5% equipment is, I think, delusional. Put any mid pack rider on a top 3 rocket (which does not necessarly mean $$$ in parts but to find all the tricks) and he will be top 5 after training 3 months on it. Good amateurs know how to ride a bike at 99%. It is true that talent makes the final difference, but I give much more credit to the team, where & who you are riding with, fitness, money, and luck.
So a mid pack rider only needs a better bike and they will suddenly be top 5!!! Yeah, right. You don't think mom and dad wouldn't break out the checkbook or get a second mortgage if that's all it took? So besides a new motor they can already go get the same tires, handlebars, sprockets, titanium triple clamps, etc etc already. And they all do. And all of them have modified suspension and motors.

Come on. It's going to take a lot more then that to go from mid pack to top 5. Some riders have the talent and some don't. No tricked out motor or special grips or titanium bolts changes that at all.

In your example, the bigger improvement would be seen in the 3 months of riding/training which has nothing to do with the bike.

I will say I retired right before 4 strokes came out. So my perspective is only based on two strokes. It may be different %'s with four strokes but either way it's heavily slanted towards rider ability.

GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 7/31/2015 7:50am
7/31/2015 7:50am
Gringoe wrote:
That article means what exactly?
sesker15 wrote:
"According to Hampshire’s mechanic, Shawn Irwin, you can’t get real crazy with exotic parts in the amateur ranks without people wanting to protest you or claim...
"According to Hampshire’s mechanic, Shawn Irwin, you can’t get real crazy with exotic parts in the amateur ranks without people wanting to protest you or claim your bike, but RJ’s bike still has some cool items to talk about".
Gringoe wrote:
That's earth shattering stuff man!
As has been pointed out repeatedly, your thread is based on a false premise. A lot of wasted words in here.
Junior467
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Junior467 7/31/2015 7:56am
7/31/2015 7:56am
Gringoe wrote:
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes...
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
sorry to break it to you but amateur engines are a different spec from pro, the difference you are hearing is just a well tuned bike built with parts you can buy.
rideguy721
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rideguy721 7/31/2015 8:49am
7/31/2015 8:49am
Would you really want to claim a bike that has a motor built to handle 10-15 hours with replacement parts costing quite a bit, seems to be a bit of a waste unless your mom and dad have some fairly deep pockets.
Dan-The-Man 7/31/2015 9:13am
7/31/2015 9:13am
Gringoe wrote:
You're right. You can make a 250f motor pretty good pretty easy these days and be close, I'm not trying to make it seem like a...
You're right. You can make a 250f motor pretty good pretty easy these days and be close, I'm not trying to make it seem like a huge deal just an observation on the other teams vs geico.

My original post is just something that I noticed when watching lorettas this week, and the past 2 years in general. The geico bikes sound meaner than any bike on the track at every am race and there is a big difference in sound from a very mod crf250 vs geico 250. Like I said they are the only bike from the am teams that sound the same as there pro bikes.


With my factory ear dyno of course
So you're using an ear dyno?
RMT
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RMT 7/31/2015 9:15am
7/31/2015 9:15am
Why so many people butt hurt over the biggest non pro race on the planet? Some of the riders could be running top ten in the next pro national at Unuadilla so quit equating this race with a amateur race. There is nothing amateur about LL.
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 7/31/2015 9:28am
7/31/2015 9:28am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 9:29am
Fair Warning: what's "on the inside" is what matters.

So, what I'm saying is...

Don't make assumptions about who's running what based on what you think you're looking at.
mxtech1
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mxtech1 7/31/2015 10:13am
7/31/2015 10:13am
You all act like it's a full-blown Geico bike vs a stock bike for every other rider. In the mod class, most of the class has a really good bike by amateur standards. The advantage is not that great, speed wise.

To me, it's more concerning that he probably has almost unlimited resources for suspension. After all, the rider can only go as fast as the suspension is good, not the motor,
Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 10:24am
7/31/2015 10:24am
mxtech1 wrote:
You all act like it's a full-blown Geico bike vs a stock bike for every other rider. In the mod class, most of the class has...
You all act like it's a full-blown Geico bike vs a stock bike for every other rider. In the mod class, most of the class has a really good bike by amateur standards. The advantage is not that great, speed wise.

To me, it's more concerning that he probably has almost unlimited resources for suspension. After all, the rider can only go as fast as the suspension is good, not the motor,
I'm not acting like that at all, everyone else's bike is good I'm not discounting that.
Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 10:25am
7/31/2015 10:25am
Gringoe wrote:
You're right. You can make a 250f motor pretty good pretty easy these days and be close, I'm not trying to make it seem like a...
You're right. You can make a 250f motor pretty good pretty easy these days and be close, I'm not trying to make it seem like a huge deal just an observation on the other teams vs geico.

My original post is just something that I noticed when watching lorettas this week, and the past 2 years in general. The geico bikes sound meaner than any bike on the track at every am race and there is a big difference in sound from a very mod crf250 vs geico 250. Like I said they are the only bike from the am teams that sound the same as there pro bikes.


With my factory ear dyno of course
Dan-The-Man wrote:
So you're using an ear dyno?
Yep, been a minute since I've had it calibrated but she works pretty good..
Money
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Money 7/31/2015 10:28am
7/31/2015 10:28am
neysbo wrote:
And you don't think Forkner is on a full blown PC bike ?
Gringoe wrote:
No I don't because he's not..
ML512 wrote:
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go...
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go to take care of it. Austin has been testing with the team quite a bit on their bike here in California.

I remember in the past that Factory Connection actually didn't send their guys to Amateur nationals with full spec engines, but it does seem like that changed last year. There were a lot more parts on those bikes... but Charbaneau's actually has a bit less compared to what I saw last year. I also kinda doubted they would send him with a complete race bike, because they are supposed to be letting him go after this race. They aren't giving him the support into the pros.

Star also had a rider on a full-race bike at an amateur event before...


Who do u think the rider was for star that had the pro bike?
Gringoe
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Gringoe 7/31/2015 10:29am
7/31/2015 10:29am Edited Date/Time 7/31/2015 10:31am
Gringoe wrote:
No I don't because he's not..
ML512 wrote:
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go...
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go to take care of it. Austin has been testing with the team quite a bit on their bike here in California.

I remember in the past that Factory Connection actually didn't send their guys to Amateur nationals with full spec engines, but it does seem like that changed last year. There were a lot more parts on those bikes... but Charbaneau's actually has a bit less compared to what I saw last year. I also kinda doubted they would send him with a complete race bike, because they are supposed to be letting him go after this race. They aren't giving him the support into the pros.

Star also had a rider on a full-race bike at an amateur event before...


Money wrote:
Who do u think the rider was for star that had the pro bike?
Cooper

What race is the better question
Money
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Money 7/31/2015 10:40am
7/31/2015 10:40am
ML512 wrote:
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go...
I think Forkner probably is. At Mammoth, they sent him with what would have been the outdoor bike for Tyler Bowers, Olly even had to go to take care of it. Austin has been testing with the team quite a bit on their bike here in California.

I remember in the past that Factory Connection actually didn't send their guys to Amateur nationals with full spec engines, but it does seem like that changed last year. There were a lot more parts on those bikes... but Charbaneau's actually has a bit less compared to what I saw last year. I also kinda doubted they would send him with a complete race bike, because they are supposed to be letting him go after this race. They aren't giving him the support into the pros.

Star also had a rider on a full-race bike at an amateur event before...


Money wrote:
Who do u think the rider was for star that had the pro bike?
Gringoe wrote:
Cooper

What race is the better question
If u think you know then let's hear it

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hillbilly
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hillbilly 7/31/2015 10:41am
7/31/2015 10:41am
A full blown 250f will gain anyone riding it time down ever straight.

That said,the people watching that matter will notice a rider on a stockish bike hauling.

Same as it ever was.
scott_nz 7/31/2015 10:48am
7/31/2015 10:48am
rideguy721 wrote:
Would you really want to claim a bike that has a motor built to handle 10-15 hours with replacement parts costing quite a bit, seems to...
Would you really want to claim a bike that has a motor built to handle 10-15 hours with replacement parts costing quite a bit, seems to be a bit of a waste unless your mom and dad have some fairly deep pockets.
a full race geico (o Pc or Star) bike is more likely to be a 5 hour motor rebuild,
Junior467
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Junior467 7/31/2015 11:33am
7/31/2015 11:33am
rideguy721 wrote:
Would you really want to claim a bike that has a motor built to handle 10-15 hours with replacement parts costing quite a bit, seems to...
Would you really want to claim a bike that has a motor built to handle 10-15 hours with replacement parts costing quite a bit, seems to be a bit of a waste unless your mom and dad have some fairly deep pockets.
scott_nz wrote:
a full race geico (o Pc or Star) bike is more likely to be a 5 hour motor rebuild,
good to see another kiwi on here, practice engines go 15 race are rebuilt every weekend.
Travis_Hudson 7/31/2015 11:47am
7/31/2015 11:47am
rideguy721 wrote:
Would you really want to claim a bike that has a motor built to handle 10-15 hours with replacement parts costing quite a bit, seems to...
Would you really want to claim a bike that has a motor built to handle 10-15 hours with replacement parts costing quite a bit, seems to be a bit of a waste unless your mom and dad have some fairly deep pockets.
Alot of them do.....you have to have deep pockets to do it competitive these days........just saying.
rallendude
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rallendude 7/31/2015 2:30pm
7/31/2015 2:30pm
What is a pro bike? If you think they have a $30g motor in that thing, get someone in the class to put a claim on it. Put your money on the table and take your chances on winning the bid against all the other factories. If you win, you just got a $40g bike for $15gs. Now what do you have?

They are all under the same rules and there are no rules about not running an expensive motor. There are rules about discplacement, bore, stroke and such. But I bet they are within that.
The Rock
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The Rock 7/31/2015 3:42pm
7/31/2015 3:42pm
scott_nz wrote:
a full race geico (o Pc or Star) bike is more likely to be a 5 hour motor rebuild,
Full race as in MX Sports Lucas Oil Nationals or full race as LLs? PC pro bikes last two motos then practice at the next race then get swapped before the first moto so those motors run less than 2 hours.
The Rock
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The Rock 7/31/2015 3:44pm
7/31/2015 3:44pm
Gringoe wrote:
You're right. You can make a 250f motor pretty good pretty easy these days and be close, I'm not trying to make it seem like a...
You're right. You can make a 250f motor pretty good pretty easy these days and be close, I'm not trying to make it seem like a huge deal just an observation on the other teams vs geico.

My original post is just something that I noticed when watching lorettas this week, and the past 2 years in general. The geico bikes sound meaner than any bike on the track at every am race and there is a big difference in sound from a very mod crf250 vs geico 250. Like I said they are the only bike from the am teams that sound the same as there pro bikes.


With my factory ear dyno of course
If they pass sound at LLs that is the main thing.
plowboy
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plowboy 7/31/2015 5:54pm
7/31/2015 5:54pm
Let me get this straight in my block head...at the top level of Mx the rider is 95% and the bike is 5%? So Kenny or Ryan or Trey could line up on a showroom stock bike and have a realistic shot at the podium? I call bullshit. At the top level there is a complete reset. All those dudes are fairly equal in talent and speed. The team that can modify the bike to accentuate the riders particular strong points and negate their flaws is gonna usually come out on top.
SlowOldGuy 7/31/2015 6:02pm
7/31/2015 6:02pm
The Rock wrote:
If they pass sound at LLs that is the main thing.
Pretty sure no sound test at LLs this year.
BobbyM
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BobbyM 7/31/2015 6:47pm
7/31/2015 6:47pm
Gringoe wrote:
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes...
What is everyone's feelings on this? Star racing and Troy lee have for the most part kept it pretty fair by not using there pro bikes in amateurs, geico on the other hand has had pro motors (IMO) in Hampshire, smith, and now charbaneau's bike the last two years.

Is that fair to have a 30 g motor at amateur races? Watch some videos from this week, his bike sounds like a fire breathing dragon compared to the other front runners in a class and i know when I was still going to am races their am bikes and pro bikes sounded identical..

If I was a unknown a rider with cash to blow who didn't think he'd ever get a ride on geico I would be claiming the fuck out of that bike. It would definitely send the message to geico.

What is everyone's thoughts? Ok or not?
quit fucking whining for keerist sakes boy.
GuyB
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GuyB 7/31/2015 7:58pm
7/31/2015 7:58pm
As far as I know they're not the same.
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Zracer 7/31/2015 7:58pm
7/31/2015 7:58pm
plowboy wrote:
Let me get this straight in my block head...at the top level of Mx the rider is 95% and the bike is 5%? So Kenny or...
Let me get this straight in my block head...at the top level of Mx the rider is 95% and the bike is 5%? So Kenny or Ryan or Trey could line up on a showroom stock bike and have a realistic shot at the podium? I call bullshit. At the top level there is a complete reset. All those dudes are fairly equal in talent and speed. The team that can modify the bike to accentuate the riders particular strong points and negate their flaws is gonna usually come out on top.
When Shorty lost his ride and jumped on that Honda his results were the same as before. You think the 1 minute trt difference between 1st and 5th is all bike? LOL No ....

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