CR125R Exhaust Oil Spooge Leaking - HELP

6/21/2015 6:33am Edited Date/Time 6/21/2015 6:35am
First thing is to ensure that you have an engine in good operating condition.

Check for a broken or worn out reed.

Check for transmission oil being sucked in through the primary drive seal.

Get your jetting right.

What oil are you running? Go to a lower flash point oil. You can find that info on the makers web site. The MSDS has that info if they don't provide it on the site.

If you have an oil that is designed to run at 50:1 then run it at 50:1. Don't try to run high ratio oils at lower ratios. If you want to run a lower ratio then get an oil that is compatible with the ratio you want to run.

If you are using a "9" series plug go to an "8" series heat range. I know a lot of weekend trail riders that try to run "9" in their 125's out plunking around on trails and have a lot of spooge. They ride at very low rpm and don't generate enough heat to burn off the oil.

That's what spooge comes down to. Your jetting, oil, motor condition or riding style is not allowing the motor to develop enough heat to burn off the oil. The oil vapors tend to condense in the thin walled, cooler running pipe and collect there.

When you get hard on the gas and wring it out for a bit, that oil is blown out of the pipe. Then you have spooge.
chevywaldo
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6/21/2015 6:54am
FGR01 wrote:
Resist the urge to use less oil. Spooge is not caused by too much oil. It's caused by combustion temps that are too low to burn...
Resist the urge to use less oil.

Spooge is not caused by too much oil. It's caused by combustion temps that are too low to burn the oil that is there. And low combustion temps are primarily caused by jetting that is too rich for the riding you are doing.

You need to clean and repack your silencer and get all the oil out of the pipe and ideally clean your power valve as well. Then you can start trying to get it jetted correctly. Your silencer packing is so full of oil right now that thing will be spooging for the next decade no matter what you change.

Certain fuels and oils are more prone to spooge. Pump gas is usually pretty bad and oils with a high flash point are less likely to burn completely.
JRT812 wrote:
^1
Couldn't agree more. Focus on your jetting, change packaging, and lookat the flashpoint of your oil. A little bit is ok, but that is crazy.
+3 here. I've dug out my old specs book from back in the day and I had specs for 00' and an 02 model that I...
+3 here.

I've dug out my old specs book from back in the day and I had specs for 00' and an 02 model that I never had any issues with. Note these are Australian models running 95 octane (RON). Other than the oxygenated fuels in the US, the specs I read on the net guys in the US run are pretty similar to what I use for other bikes so no need to panic.

2000
350 main (360 stock)
45 pilot (50)
standard 6BEG20-69 in 2nd clip (3rd clip)

2002
360 (400)
standard 32.5 pilot
standard needle in 2nd from 3rd

Pro circuit specs
Standard 380 45 6BEG20-68 in 3rd slide 5 air screw not recorded
Pro Circuit 370 37.5 6BEG20-69 (leaner) in 2nd std slide air screw 1.5

I would go 360 main and 35 pilot or even 32.5 and 6BEG20-69 in 2nd. air screw around 1.5 out. If your pilot is too lean, the bike will be too revvy straight off idle to quarter throttle, and you wont blow it up with too lean a pilot so experiment there all you want and you'll figure it out. The 68 and 69 on the needle is the size of the thicker straight section and affects the bike from about quarter to half throttle, 68 being smaller than the 69 and therefor richer. If you're too lean on the needle you'll loose power through the mid and it will ping under hard load. The clip position affects from quarter to 3 quarter. The main affects from half through to full in conjunction with the taper on the needle, but mostly at full. This setting will be good for anything but drag racing or long track. Put these in and go for a good blast, it will come back smoking from the pipe as all the oil burns off, and after a good days riding and burning, then repack your muffler. Better still, get an after market silencer. I used to run FMF shorty with Fatty pipe to beef the low and mid a little. If all that seems too much, buy and fit a JD jet kit, or pay someone who can jet.The bike will go sooooo much better and is usually better money spent than a pipe.
thanks Underground.
chevywaldo
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6/21/2015 6:56am
First thing is to ensure that you have an engine in good operating condition. Check for a broken or worn out reed. Check for transmission oil...
First thing is to ensure that you have an engine in good operating condition.

Check for a broken or worn out reed.

Check for transmission oil being sucked in through the primary drive seal.

Get your jetting right.

What oil are you running? Go to a lower flash point oil. You can find that info on the makers web site. The MSDS has that info if they don't provide it on the site.

If you have an oil that is designed to run at 50:1 then run it at 50:1. Don't try to run high ratio oils at lower ratios. If you want to run a lower ratio then get an oil that is compatible with the ratio you want to run.

If you are using a "9" series plug go to an "8" series heat range. I know a lot of weekend trail riders that try to run "9" in their 125's out plunking around on trails and have a lot of spooge. They ride at very low rpm and don't generate enough heat to burn off the oil.

That's what spooge comes down to. Your jetting, oil, motor condition or riding style is not allowing the motor to develop enough heat to burn off the oil. The oil vapors tend to condense in the thin walled, cooler running pipe and collect there.

When you get hard on the gas and wring it out for a bit, that oil is blown out of the pipe. Then you have spooge.
thanks Mr. Robinson. I think you're on to something. I'll do some research.

Lee
r.sal923
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6/21/2015 7:41am
FGR01 wrote:
Resist the urge to use less oil. Spooge is not caused by too much oil. It's caused by combustion temps that are too low to burn...
Resist the urge to use less oil.

Spooge is not caused by too much oil. It's caused by combustion temps that are too low to burn the oil that is there. And low combustion temps are primarily caused by jetting that is too rich for the riding you are doing.

You need to clean and repack your silencer and get all the oil out of the pipe and ideally clean your power valve as well. Then you can start trying to get it jetted correctly. Your silencer packing is so full of oil right now that thing will be spooging for the next decade no matter what you change.

Certain fuels and oils are more prone to spooge. Pump gas is usually pretty bad and oils with a high flash point are less likely to burn completely.
I know with my 250 that motul 800 has too high of a flash point and when riding in the bush it "splooges" all over. I have found that running a half synthetic ,none ester or caster works best. Lower flash point so it burns more off. Get a semi- synthetic and change muffler packing

The Shop

6/21/2015 3:23pm
If you ran your bike at 100:1 with race gas and had prefect fucking flash point and brand new crank seals and jettetd as fat as it could go, you could never get it to sponge like that if you rode it with the throttle mostly open or even somewhat every now and then open.

You have a throtel issue and the root of it stems from you vergina.
6/22/2015 8:49am
Even though I know better......

Reality check; Even at those extreme conditions what you are per posing still brings it down to combustion / exhaust temperatures. Throttle position has a huge effect on exhaust gas temperature.

chevywaldo
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6/22/2015 9:08am
Thanks for all the help guys. Great information. For now I'm going to start with the easy logical stuff. I'm changing to a 2-stroke oil (lucas) with a much lower flash point than the oil I was running, and I'm going to a hotter (#8) spark plug. I will also repack the packing. Then I will run the bike a while and see how she does. If she still sprays lots of oil out I have to look at my trans fluid levels and jetting.
6/22/2015 3:31pm
Don't forget the reeds. You mentioned the low end power was bad. Could be the reeds. They'll kill the low end cause an excessive rich condition with a lot of bog.
kawasa84
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6/22/2015 3:37pm
stoop wrote:
just matte black the whole bike, you wont even notice it
THIS !!
JMR1976
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6/22/2015 4:10pm
Total bait thread.
YZ125H1
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6/23/2015 11:42am
I had a similar problem with my YZ125, but almost everything on the bike was worn and the spooge was not as bad as yours. First off clean the off the excess oil, repack the silencer, and check the expansion chamber for any oil laying in it. I'm assuming you are going to be riding the bike the rest of the season so I would not tear down the bike completely just yet. At the end of the season pull the pipe/silencer and motor out of the bike. Inspect the powervalve and clean it out to make sure it is working. Look at the carb make sure everything is good including the vent hoses. Inspect the reeds if the ends are chipped chuck them. Pull the head and inspect the piston kick the engine over a few times see how the piston fits. If the piston is old the rings might not be sealing as good and you could be getting blow by. Also replace the seals on the motor for insurance and you might as well do the waterpump seal too. Check the crank but you should be able to reuse it unless its out of spec. Also take note of your current jetting on the bike.

Order a new piston and rings wiseco or OEM your choice. Look at your sparkplug see what plug heat range is compared to what OEM calls for. Try to run the same heat plug as stock. Take note of your mods to bike reeds and expansion chamber can all affect jetting. Get new orings for the expansion chamber where it connects to motor. You could even get new pipe springs if the old ones look bad. Get a new exhaust collar the rubber tends to go bad after awhile and can cause leaks.

I have not experimented with different premixes, but some people have said trying a different premix can help a lot such as Motul 710 2T I'm told. I'm not sure if it is related to flash point or not some oils are designed for racing in mind like Motul 800 so if you dont get the engine hot enough it wont burn it all. Your best bet would be a 100% synthetic premix they burn the cleanest. My bike is currently running Castor 927 @ 32:1 on highest pump gas I can find (Has ethanol in it) and I barely have any spooge just a tiny bit on the end of the pipe. The bike revs clean throughout the entire RPM range. I've had to drop 2 main jet sizes, 1 pilot size, and raise the clip 2 positions over the stock. I have a different needle it's one step leaner very slight difference might be a half step. I had a 340 main on my bike at start of season and the bike just would not rev out on top. Down low it was great, but you could still hear some sputtering at lower throttle openings (i.e rich). I dropped the main to 330 and moved the clip up 2 positions and it was perfect! The bike revs right to the top and the sputtering down low is gone. The bike takes a little longer to warm up than before when it was rich you could pull off much earlier. I barely have any spooge just a little drop at the end of the silencer. My only mods are boyesen power reeds and FMF fatty/shorty combo.

When properly jetting the bike you want everything to be fresh or you are just wasting your time. Also remember it is a race bike so it is meant to be rode harder and higher in the rpms.

32:1 would be fine for a 125 unless the oil manufacturer calls for different ratios I would not go leaner than 40:1 on a 125.

Another tip is to plug exhaust with papertowel/muffler plugs when you wash so you dont get water in packing can make more of a mess also.

Most likely parts on you bike are worn and the jetting is too rich for your riding. Hope this helps.
chevywaldo
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6/23/2015 12:03pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2015 12:06pm
YZ125H1 wrote:
I had a similar problem with my YZ125, but almost everything on the bike was worn and the spooge was not as bad as yours. First...
I had a similar problem with my YZ125, but almost everything on the bike was worn and the spooge was not as bad as yours. First off clean the off the excess oil, repack the silencer, and check the expansion chamber for any oil laying in it. I'm assuming you are going to be riding the bike the rest of the season so I would not tear down the bike completely just yet. At the end of the season pull the pipe/silencer and motor out of the bike. Inspect the powervalve and clean it out to make sure it is working. Look at the carb make sure everything is good including the vent hoses. Inspect the reeds if the ends are chipped chuck them. Pull the head and inspect the piston kick the engine over a few times see how the piston fits. If the piston is old the rings might not be sealing as good and you could be getting blow by. Also replace the seals on the motor for insurance and you might as well do the waterpump seal too. Check the crank but you should be able to reuse it unless its out of spec. Also take note of your current jetting on the bike.

Order a new piston and rings wiseco or OEM your choice. Look at your sparkplug see what plug heat range is compared to what OEM calls for. Try to run the same heat plug as stock. Take note of your mods to bike reeds and expansion chamber can all affect jetting. Get new orings for the expansion chamber where it connects to motor. You could even get new pipe springs if the old ones look bad. Get a new exhaust collar the rubber tends to go bad after awhile and can cause leaks.

I have not experimented with different premixes, but some people have said trying a different premix can help a lot such as Motul 710 2T I'm told. I'm not sure if it is related to flash point or not some oils are designed for racing in mind like Motul 800 so if you dont get the engine hot enough it wont burn it all. Your best bet would be a 100% synthetic premix they burn the cleanest. My bike is currently running Castor 927 @ 32:1 on highest pump gas I can find (Has ethanol in it) and I barely have any spooge just a tiny bit on the end of the pipe. The bike revs clean throughout the entire RPM range. I've had to drop 2 main jet sizes, 1 pilot size, and raise the clip 2 positions over the stock. I have a different needle it's one step leaner very slight difference might be a half step. I had a 340 main on my bike at start of season and the bike just would not rev out on top. Down low it was great, but you could still hear some sputtering at lower throttle openings (i.e rich). I dropped the main to 330 and moved the clip up 2 positions and it was perfect! The bike revs right to the top and the sputtering down low is gone. The bike takes a little longer to warm up than before when it was rich you could pull off much earlier. I barely have any spooge just a little drop at the end of the silencer. My only mods are boyesen power reeds and FMF fatty/shorty combo.

When properly jetting the bike you want everything to be fresh or you are just wasting your time. Also remember it is a race bike so it is meant to be rode harder and higher in the rpms.

32:1 would be fine for a 125 unless the oil manufacturer calls for different ratios I would not go leaner than 40:1 on a 125.

Another tip is to plug exhaust with papertowel/muffler plugs when you wash so you dont get water in packing can make more of a mess also.

Most likely parts on you bike are worn and the jetting is too rich for your riding. Hope this helps.
wow - thanks for the detailed comprehensive response. I appreciate it.

couple of items.

The motor was just rebuilt. New seals, bearings, gaskets, piston, etc. only a couple hours on the new piston and rings. compression is good. The power valve checks out good - I inspected it. No problems. My main and pilot jets are changed from factory specs to the next leaner sizes.

Here is what I am going to do for now:

I am switching to a new oil with a lower flash point. I am switching to a hotter plug. I am replacing the entire old factory reed cage and valves with a new VForce3 Reed. I am replacing the silencer packing. And that's it for now. If I still get excessive spooge and poor low/mid range performance I'll play around more with the jets and needle and mixture screw. That's about all I can do with the exception of replacing the Mikuni TMX flat slide carb with a new aftermarket better carb, which is what another guy on the forum told me to do.
YZ125H1
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6/23/2015 12:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/23/2015 12:37pm
chevywaldo wrote:
wow - thanks for the detailed comprehensive response. I appreciate it. couple of items. The motor was just rebuilt. New seals, bearings, gaskets, piston, etc. only...
wow - thanks for the detailed comprehensive response. I appreciate it.

couple of items.

The motor was just rebuilt. New seals, bearings, gaskets, piston, etc. only a couple hours on the new piston and rings. compression is good. The power valve checks out good - I inspected it. No problems. My main and pilot jets are changed from factory specs to the next leaner sizes.

Here is what I am going to do for now:

I am switching to a new oil with a lower flash point. I am switching to a hotter plug. I am replacing the entire old factory reed cage and valves with a new VForce3 Reed. I am replacing the silencer packing. And that's it for now. If I still get excessive spooge and poor low/mid range performance I'll play around more with the jets and needle and mixture screw. That's about all I can do with the exception of replacing the Mikuni TMX flat slide carb with a new aftermarket better carb, which is what another guy on the forum told me to do.
My YZ has a Mikuni TMX 36mm carb and I've got it to run very good. I certainly would only change carbs unless you have tried everything. If the bike revs out cleanly and completely to the top once you hammer the throttle out of a corner the main jet is likely the right size. The only things I would really recommend changing are the needle, clip position, and pilot size. Jetting is a really crucial skill to getting the bike running properly especially for a 125. It seems complicated at first but once you learn more about it isnt that hard relatively simple. Here is a good link on jetting a 2 stroke.

http://www.kawasakimotorcycle.org/forum/kawasaki-motocross-offroad/1722…

You dont have to do exactly what the guy does but it helped me. I did not do plug chop tests I just rode around the track after the bike was warmed up at different throttle openings and listened to the motor. At constant lower throttle openings if you hear sputtering the bike is too rich. You can fix this by raising the clip 1 position (dropping the needle leaning it out). Also the the article tells you if you are too many or too little turns on the air screw you may need a different pilot size. My bike originally had an 8 plug in it (hotter) than the stock 9. I put back the 9 plug in and it ran great. People recommend not changing the plug range since that is really just covering up the jetting. I believe this is more of a trick for woods riders who are putting around. Another thing you can do is get a leaner needle. On my YZ I went with the 6BEG9-70 over the stock (6BEG9-69 richer) the only thing different is the diameter of the needle the tapers are still the same. I looked up the OEM parts for your CR125 and there is quite a bit more optional needles and jets than for my YZ. I never messed with the slide or main nozzle on my bike. Just the air screw, pilot, needle, clip position, idle screw, and main jet.

The fact that you are having issues with low-mid means the jetting is off the bike should still be responsive at all RPM ranges when jetted properly. The only problem with excess spooge is it makes a mess and you will have to repack silencer more often. When it comes to jetting you just gotta mess around with it, it all depends on how perfect you want it the more time you spend the better you can get it dialed in.

The post by underground should be a good base line for you to start at.
chevywaldo
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7/3/2015 3:59pm
CR125 SPOOGE UPDATE:

hey guys and girls. So I went riding today and I have an "spooge update" (don't laugh) Woohoo Earlier this week I did the following:

1) changed to lower Flash Point 2-cycle oil (Lucas)
2) changed to a hotter plug (#8 instead of #9)
3) installed new Reed Valve (VForce) just because I had a gift card to Amazon Blink
4) repacked the silencer

RESULTS: NO MORE SPOOGE. Thanks to Mr. Robinson and all you other guys that helped me out. I now believe that for whatever reason the oil I was running and the plug I was running (factory spec) was not creating hot enough combustion chamber temps to burn off all the oil. I believe the first 2 items above corrected the problem.
7/3/2015 6:32pm Edited Date/Time 7/3/2015 8:56pm
My money is on number 3. Although you may just be starting to fill up the new packing cause you've done none of the rest. Time will tell. Have fun anyway and remember what Elvis said:

Fixed
chevywaldo
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7/3/2015 6:47pm
My money is on number 3. Although you may just be starting to fill up the new packing cause you've done none of the rest. Time...
My money is on number 3. Although you may just be starting to fill up the new packing cause you've done none of the rest. Time will tell. Have fun anyway and remember what Elvis said:

Fixed
yea I was thinking about #3 (packing) as well. However.......When I removed the old packing, I was surprised that it was NOT loaded with oil. Strange huh? Yes it had a lot of oil at the one end, but the other 75% of the packing was NOT oil soaked........

like you said - time will tell............
7/3/2015 8:01pm
BobPA wrote:
That what I was thinking, but they usually blubber pretty bad at high RPM when the tranny seal is bad.
A Tranny with a bad seal? No wonder there's so much spooge.
BobbyM
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7/3/2015 8:12pm
chevywaldo wrote:
take a look at the photos. This is after riding the bike for about 30-60 minutes. Not racing, just recreational motocross. This is a 2001. The...
take a look at the photos. This is after riding the bike for about 30-60 minutes. Not racing, just recreational motocross. This is a 2001. The oil spooge drips out of the silencer onto the swingarm. The engine was rebuilt by a pro 2 years ago. I put another new piston in it just a few months ago. I rode it earlier today. I have owned the bike for 4 years. It has "ALWAYS" done this, even before the engine rebuild. I recently rejetted the carb main jet and pilot jet. That made it run better. I downsized them both 1 size from factory specs (leaner) a couple months ago. The bike runs very good at high rpm. Lots of power at high rpm (crazy fast), but at low and mid rpm - very little power. I'm running 32:1. The exhaust power valve works fine. I never changed the silencer packing - I'm sure it's full of oil, but that's likely not the problem - I'm sure it's a carb or tuning or fuel issue? Don't know. I'm looking for someone who had the same problem and learned how to fix it.

thanks. Lee






Honda? Looks like the Exxon Valdez.... Damn.
machine
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7/3/2015 8:15pm
BobbyM wrote:
Honda? Looks like the Exxon Valdez.... Damn.
I think I see a sea gull in the photo, where's the Dawn dish soap when you need it...Grinning
7/4/2015 1:33am
chevywaldo wrote:
CR125 SPOOGE UPDATE: hey guys and girls. So I went riding today and I have an "spooge update" (don't laugh) :woohoo: Earlier this week I did...
CR125 SPOOGE UPDATE:

hey guys and girls. So I went riding today and I have an "spooge update" (don't laugh) Woohoo Earlier this week I did the following:

1) changed to lower Flash Point 2-cycle oil (Lucas)
2) changed to a hotter plug (#8 instead of #9)
3) installed new Reed Valve (VForce) just because I had a gift card to Amazon Blink
4) repacked the silencer

RESULTS: NO MORE SPOOGE. Thanks to Mr. Robinson and all you other guys that helped me out. I now believe that for whatever reason the oil I was running and the plug I was running (factory spec) was not creating hot enough combustion chamber temps to burn off all the oil. I believe the first 2 items above corrected the problem.
Good deal. Great to hear. Glad to help out.

Now, keep an eye on that "8" series plug. If it looks normal after a normal days riding, then you should be fine. If it should look too lean, go back to the "9" series. If you get to the point where you are on the pipe all the time, then you'll need to go back, for sure.

I just pulled a YZ125 apart that I had the guy switch to an "8" after he fouled his first plug, and the motor looks great. He's a very good "B" rider that mainly rides off road / woods stuff and you would never know by looking that he was running a hotter plug for the past two years.

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