125 two-stroke makes the 250 field

brewrabb
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brewrabb 6/13/2015 9:31pm
6/13/2015 9:31pm
h&m_cycle wrote:
just saw it... it was getting lapped sadly... time to up the c.c.'s 250 to 250... wait a minute... that didn't work out so good in...
just saw it... it was getting lapped sadly... time to up the c.c.'s 250 to 250... wait a minute... that didn't work out so good
in Canada...
Kaven Benoit won last week's Canadian National on a 250 2 stroke under the CMRC's updated rules.

http://cmrc.tracksideresults.com/class.asp?s=8&c=6&e=24
vanillaice782
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vanillaice782 6/13/2015 10:14pm
6/13/2015 10:14pm
I have a pretty far fetched theory where I think the factories will go back to two strokes after they run out of things to upgrade on the four strokes. I won't hold my breath but it would be cool to see.
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Kawasaki572 6/13/2015 10:17pm
6/13/2015 10:17pm
dynohut wrote:
Freaking nice post Gibby! True story, I took my little "old" Mom to the flea market this morning, pushed her around in a rented scooter thing...
Freaking nice post Gibby! True story, I took my little "old" Mom to the flea market this morning, pushed her around in a rented scooter thing (she needs a cane to walk) for a few hours, we got some food truck tacos on the way home to chow while we watched today's national she had recorded, about lap three into the first 250 moto she say's to me D***y I keep hearing one of the two stroke bumble bees you ride on the track over the announcers who is that? I cant wait to share this thread with her in the morning. well played fellas

Laughing Laughing Laughing
Slosh 112
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Slosh 112 6/13/2015 10:27pm
6/13/2015 10:27pm Edited Date/Time 6/13/2015 10:27pm
Slosh 112 wrote:
Lol should listen to how many people winge (mainly the factory backed teams) about 250 two strokes being allowed to race against 250 four strokes in...
Lol should listen to how many people winge (mainly the factory backed teams) about 250 two strokes being allowed to race against 250 four strokes in the lites class in the Australian National series. It boosted rider numbers in the class and IMO the racing has been better than ever before.
TeamGreen wrote:
This is 'Murika! We send our guys out there on 125s to battle with bikes that have Waaaaaaay more HP and Waaaaaaaay more torque and cost...
This is 'Murika!

We send our guys out there on 125s to battle with bikes that have Waaaaaaay more HP and Waaaaaaaay more torque and cost Waaaaaaaay more$$$$/€€€€/££££ or whatever...
Correction, one guy...

The Shop

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jeffro503
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jeffro503 6/13/2015 10:30pm
6/13/2015 10:30pm
I'm pretty sure Gared posts here on vital if I remember right.
smezmx
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smezmx 6/14/2015 12:17am
6/14/2015 12:17am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2015 12:19am
RandyS wrote:
What's going on with his tank? Looks like more than just heat shield.
Aluminium tank maybe?




smezmx
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smezmx 6/14/2015 12:25am
6/14/2015 12:25am
Be nice to hear a full gate of 500cc smoker's too.oh and 250's ! Smile
tek14
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tek14 6/14/2015 1:30am
6/14/2015 1:30am
KTM made 125 for Ken94 and 250 for Cairoli222 at last rounds of GPs as they won series before last events. Kenny did race an was something like 6-8 places but was riding little hurt after crash. He dominated pretty much on 250f that year. Cairoli never raced 250 because he lost family member during week and didnt wanna race. Sound of Factory 125 was way deep and strong and Ken wasnt running on rev limiter at all... Sounded like bigbore with high compression even was surely just tuned 125.
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motomike894 6/14/2015 4:14am
6/14/2015 4:14am
Ebs wrote:
I dig it, nice ride. I see they're limited to 2010 models only, I wonder how strict they are about it. But at least Yamaha put...
I dig it, nice ride.

I see they're limited to 2010 models only, I wonder how strict they are about it. But at least Yamaha put up for getting their 2-smokes approved at one point.

http://amaproracing.cdn.racersites.com/assets/UpdatedPDF-AMAP-Approved-…

They must not be very picky because cody cragg is riding a 15 yz 250 at some nationals and it's not legal.
OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 6/14/2015 6:20am
6/14/2015 6:20am
wfo4ever wrote:
I wish the AMA could get somebody with brains to help pull their head out of their ass. A lot of fans want to see 2...
I wish the AMA could get somebody with brains to help pull their head out of their ass. A lot of fans want to see 2 strokes racing but with fair rules. I agree with Newmann that we should have a 125 class, It would actually be very competitive racing, just watch some of the 125 races on youtube and you will see how exciting it was.
I've come to the conclusion that we need just two classes; a two stroke class where you can run any displacement and a four stroke class where you can run any displacement. It lets the manufacturers advertise their bike in classes separated by engine type so they don't have to race together. This seems to be "the" problem allowing them to race together.

With the performance of the modern 250f's there is no "entry" level pro class anymore; they're pretty evenly matched with the 450's. At some tracks they are the superior machine. I guess the "factory" or well funded teams could campaign either bike depending on conditions, I'd think the team would select which bike their rider was going to race the series with and they wouldn't switch but that'd be their choice.

I'd imagine the two stroke class could be used for entry level riders who have been campaigning the two strokes n the amateur ranks and privateer efforts. You could also see pro's from the Canadian, European and Australians series who've been running them come here and compete. Hopefully it could provide a place where some of the smaller manufacturers offering two strokes could come and play.
OW38B
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OW38B 6/14/2015 10:44am
6/14/2015 10:44am Edited Date/Time 6/14/2015 10:45am
Slosh 112 wrote:
Lol should listen to how many people winge (mainly the factory backed teams) about 250 two strokes being allowed to race against 250 four strokes in...
Lol should listen to how many people winge (mainly the factory backed teams) about 250 two strokes being allowed to race against 250 four strokes in the lites class in the Australian National series. It boosted rider numbers in the class and IMO the racing has been better than ever before.
Slosh.......this can't be true and you must be mistaken. We keep getting told that nobody will ride them or it is unfair and it will be the death of the class if a 250cc 2 stroke be allowed in the 250cc class.

Double check your facts and get back to us please. Grinning
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h&m_cycle 6/14/2015 10:52am
6/14/2015 10:52am
OldYZRider1 wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that we need just two classes; a two stroke class where you can run any displacement and a four stroke class...
I've come to the conclusion that we need just two classes; a two stroke class where you can run any displacement and a four stroke class where you can run any displacement. It lets the manufacturers advertise their bike in classes separated by engine type so they don't have to race together. This seems to be "the" problem allowing them to race together.

With the performance of the modern 250f's there is no "entry" level pro class anymore; they're pretty evenly matched with the 450's. At some tracks they are the superior machine. I guess the "factory" or well funded teams could campaign either bike depending on conditions, I'd think the team would select which bike their rider was going to race the series with and they wouldn't switch but that'd be their choice.

I'd imagine the two stroke class could be used for entry level riders who have been campaigning the two strokes n the amateur ranks and privateer efforts. You could also see pro's from the Canadian, European and Australians series who've been running them come here and compete. Hopefully it could provide a place where some of the smaller manufacturers offering two strokes could come and play.
Great idea but I don't think Honda wiil allow that... HRC boss Shuhei Nakamoto was asked what is HRC's stance on the two
stroke, any development?:

answer: ZERO Looks like KTM are the only company that even gives a shit about getting the 2 stroke approved...
Yamaha gave up in 2010... They may let the newer Yamie's in anyway but this list proves they don't give a F*uck either...



PD441
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PD441 6/14/2015 11:09am
6/14/2015 11:09am
This is awesome! Congratulations to Gared and ThermoTec. Those graphics are good for 3-4 HP. Cool
bsharkey
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bsharkey 6/14/2015 12:55pm
6/14/2015 12:55pm
tommy weecks racing one in Albany today as well
OldYZRider1
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OldYZRider1 6/14/2015 1:20pm
6/14/2015 1:20pm
h&m_cycle wrote:
Great idea but I don't think Honda wiil allow that... HRC boss Shuhei Nakamoto was asked what is HRC's stance on the two stroke, [b]any development?[/b]...
Great idea but I don't think Honda wiil allow that... HRC boss Shuhei Nakamoto was asked what is HRC's stance on the two
stroke, any development?:

answer: ZERO Looks like KTM are the only company that even gives a shit about getting the 2 stroke approved...
Yamaha gave up in 2010... They may let the newer Yamie's in anyway but this list proves they don't give a F*uck either...



I'd assume the Japanese manufacturers would only contest the four stroke class. KTM/Husky would hopefully do both classes. Privateers could go two stroke or 450's in the four stroke class to keep their expenses down. Maybe some of the smaller Euro manufactures might come into the two stroke class where their expenses could be lower and they don't have to compete against the well funded Japanese four stroke teams.
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Markee 6/14/2015 2:20pm
6/14/2015 2:20pm
I know it isn't a better motorcycle. But it is.

Awesome job, what a sound.
brewrabb
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brewrabb 6/14/2015 3:18pm
6/14/2015 3:18pm
h&m_cycle wrote:
just saw it... it was getting lapped sadly... time to up the c.c.'s 250 to 250... wait a minute... that didn't work out so good in...
just saw it... it was getting lapped sadly... time to up the c.c.'s 250 to 250... wait a minute... that didn't work out so good
in Canada...
brewrabb wrote:
Kaven Benoit won last week's Canadian National on a 250 2 stroke under the CMRC's updated rules.

http://cmrc.tracksideresults.com/class.asp?s=8&c=6&e=24
Canadian Quebecois Kaven Benoit wins in Calgary, on his Sx 250 (2 stroke), over Jimmy Decotis and Jeremy Medaglia.

OW38B
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OW38B 6/14/2015 6:54pm
6/14/2015 6:54pm
h&m_cycle wrote:
just saw it... it was getting lapped sadly... time to up the c.c.'s 250 to 250... wait a minute... that didn't work out so good in...
just saw it... it was getting lapped sadly... time to up the c.c.'s 250 to 250... wait a minute... that didn't work out so good
in Canada...
brewrabb wrote:
Kaven Benoit won last week's Canadian National on a 250 2 stroke under the CMRC's updated rules.

http://cmrc.tracksideresults.com/class.asp?s=8&c=6&e=24
brewrabb wrote:
Canadian Quebecois Kaven Benoit wins in Calgary, on his Sx 250 (2 stroke), over Jimmy Decotis and Jeremy Medaglia.

Yikes.....they are gonna be back on 125cc 2 strokes for next year....when all the complaints start coming in.

Congrats to Kaven!

Pit Row

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Frodad78
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Frodad78 6/14/2015 7:05pm
6/14/2015 7:05pm
8686 wrote:
Marvin M. would podium on a 125 just the same as he podiums on his 250F.
I agree.

I also feel if the whole field was on 125s Marvin would be almost untouchable with his solid technique.
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Darryl916 6/15/2015 10:17am
6/15/2015 10:17am
I'm super confused on the 2 stroke thing in AMA racing. KTM makes and sells enough of them (400?). Why is it only ok to race a Yamaha, and a 2010 at that?! 2005 - 2014 yz's are practically the same bike and 2015 only has different plastic. That make zero sense to me. What am I missing?
TailSoHard
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TailSoHard 6/15/2015 10:50am
6/15/2015 10:50am
Darryl916 wrote:
I'm super confused on the 2 stroke thing in AMA racing. KTM makes and sells enough of them (400?). Why is it only ok to race...
I'm super confused on the 2 stroke thing in AMA racing. KTM makes and sells enough of them (400?). Why is it only ok to race a Yamaha, and a 2010 at that?! 2005 - 2014 yz's are practically the same bike and 2015 only has different plastic. That make zero sense to me. What am I missing?
I'm assuming it's because 2010 marks the last year that Yamaha made/sold enough YZ's to race them legally. So, in theory, you could just take a 2010 and slap the 2015 airbox and plastics on it and the fans would be non the wiser
machine
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machine 6/15/2015 11:04am
6/15/2015 11:04am Edited Date/Time 6/15/2015 11:04am
They really should let them run 150's just to give them at least half a chance...sheesh. Same for 300's in the big boy class. They still wouldn't win, but damn, at least make it fair.
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The Narrator 6/15/2015 11:09am
6/15/2015 11:09am
machine wrote:
They really should let them run 150's just to give them at least half a chance...sheesh. Same for 300's in the big boy class. They still...
They really should let them run 150's just to give them at least half a chance...sheesh. Same for 300's in the big boy class. They still wouldn't win, but damn, at least make it fair.
Payton would put a 300 on the line that would do serious, serious damage.
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cslacker 6/15/2015 11:11am
6/15/2015 11:11am
Darryl916 wrote:
I'm super confused on the 2 stroke thing in AMA racing. KTM makes and sells enough of them (400?). Why is it only ok to race...
I'm super confused on the 2 stroke thing in AMA racing. KTM makes and sells enough of them (400?). Why is it only ok to race a Yamaha, and a 2010 at that?! 2005 - 2014 yz's are practically the same bike and 2015 only has different plastic. That make zero sense to me. What am I missing?
TailSoHard wrote:
I'm assuming it's because 2010 marks the last year that Yamaha made/sold enough YZ's to race them legally. So, in theory, you could just take a...
I'm assuming it's because 2010 marks the last year that Yamaha made/sold enough YZ's to race them legally. So, in theory, you could just take a 2010 and slap the 2015 airbox and plastics on it and the fans would be non the wiser
The manufacturer has to submit parts and pay a fee to have them homologated. Yamaha has not done this since 2010. I do believe Yamaha sold enough 2015s to qualify, but they didn't fill out the paperwork and submit the parts/fees...
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The Narrator 6/15/2015 11:14am
6/15/2015 11:14am
Darryl916 wrote:
I'm super confused on the 2 stroke thing in AMA racing. KTM makes and sells enough of them (400?). Why is it only ok to race...
I'm super confused on the 2 stroke thing in AMA racing. KTM makes and sells enough of them (400?). Why is it only ok to race a Yamaha, and a 2010 at that?! 2005 - 2014 yz's are practically the same bike and 2015 only has different plastic. That make zero sense to me. What am I missing?
TailSoHard wrote:
I'm assuming it's because 2010 marks the last year that Yamaha made/sold enough YZ's to race them legally. So, in theory, you could just take a...
I'm assuming it's because 2010 marks the last year that Yamaha made/sold enough YZ's to race them legally. So, in theory, you could just take a 2010 and slap the 2015 airbox and plastics on it and the fans would be non the wiser
cslacker wrote:
The manufacturer has to submit parts and pay a fee to have them homologated. Yamaha has not done this since 2010. I do believe Yamaha sold...
The manufacturer has to submit parts and pay a fee to have them homologated. Yamaha has not done this since 2010. I do believe Yamaha sold enough 2015s to qualify, but they didn't fill out the paperwork and submit the parts/fees...
nothing to do with how many are sold, but how many are imported and made available to the public.
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cslacker 6/15/2015 11:20am
6/15/2015 11:20am
The Narrator wrote:
nothing to do with how many are sold, but how many are imported and made available to the public.
True. But they do have to go through the process with them as well. Yamaha just doesn't care to. I have a hard time believing they didn't import 400 yz250s to qualify but I don't have proof of that either.
machine
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machine 6/15/2015 11:22am
6/15/2015 11:22am
machine wrote:
They really should let them run 150's just to give them at least half a chance...sheesh. Same for 300's in the big boy class. They still...
They really should let them run 150's just to give them at least half a chance...sheesh. Same for 300's in the big boy class. They still wouldn't win, but damn, at least make it fair.
The Narrator wrote:
Payton would put a 300 on the line that would do serious, serious damage.
Should say "could", because he would put the bike on the line that the manufacturer wants him to put on the line. Regardless, it still wouldn't win with a privateer riding it and would probably top 10 with RD or Roczen riding it.
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Berm 6/15/2015 11:40am
6/15/2015 11:40am Edited Date/Time 6/15/2015 11:41am
machine wrote:
They really should let them run 150's just to give them at least half a chance...sheesh. Same for 300's in the big boy class. They still...
They really should let them run 150's just to give them at least half a chance...sheesh. Same for 300's in the big boy class. They still wouldn't win, but damn, at least make it fair.
Sorry, didn't mean to quote this post.

Can anyone find the actual procedural rules for homologating a 250/450 class machine? All I can find is that the AMA has more information, and then AMA Technical director has more information, but it is not listed on the AMA page.

This is the form the factory must fill out: Homologation Form SX-MX

For mini-bikes, it has a rule specifically stating the bike must be homologated every year even if there are no model changes. I could not find such a rule for big bikes (but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist).

The frame part number 1P8-21101-50-00 for a yz250 frame is the same from 2006-2015. I didn't check the other numbers on important pieces (things that can't change like frame, motor mounts, ect), but assuming they are also the same from 2006-2015, I would have to assume that a guy who built a yz250 from the ground up would be able to have it identify as a 2010 yz250 as far as competition is considered...or maybe you can't do that and it has to be a 2010 sold frame.
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Berm 6/15/2015 11:40am
6/15/2015 11:40am
However, that being said, DC has said before that non-homologated bikes might be considered on a case-by-case basis to be approved when talking about the 5-year rule.

"DC wrote: No idea how the 5-year limit got determined, but if you are a licensed and qualified rider, and you really want to race those 2003 bikes at an AMA Supercross, I am sure they would at least consider an exception on a case-by-case basis, and no one in their right mind would want to keep The Rick Melon from his shot at the top.

DC
MX Sports"
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Darryl916 6/15/2015 11:43am
6/15/2015 11:43am
TailSoHard wrote:
I'm assuming it's because 2010 marks the last year that Yamaha made/sold enough YZ's to race them legally. So, in theory, you could just take a...
I'm assuming it's because 2010 marks the last year that Yamaha made/sold enough YZ's to race them legally. So, in theory, you could just take a 2010 and slap the 2015 airbox and plastics on it and the fans would be non the wiser
cslacker wrote:
The manufacturer has to submit parts and pay a fee to have them homologated. Yamaha has not done this since 2010. I do believe Yamaha sold...
The manufacturer has to submit parts and pay a fee to have them homologated. Yamaha has not done this since 2010. I do believe Yamaha sold enough 2015s to qualify, but they didn't fill out the paperwork and submit the parts/fees...
The Narrator wrote:
nothing to do with how many are sold, but how many are imported and made available to the public.
If I remember correctly the KTM Factory Edition number is 400. Yamaha has to import, make available, sell 400 2-strokes a year in the US easily.

Post a reply to: 125 two-stroke makes the 250 field