Canadian Smoke-Show

GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 6/10/2015 3:18pm
6/10/2015 3:18pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
Would you care to educate me on what that is?
Starcrossed wrote:
Would you care to make a donation to the Marty Moates Shining Star Fund/Big Air Kid's Fair at Loma Linda Children's Hosp. if I tell you?
hvaughn88 wrote:
Sure. Don't really get your angle sometimes, but this seems like a good cause.
Starcrossed is a giant booger you just can't flick vaughn! Maybe someday he will stick to someone else's finger and you will be free to post again.
Starcrossed
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Starcrossed 6/10/2015 3:28pm
6/10/2015 3:28pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2015 3:29pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Starcrossed is a giant booger you just can't flick vaughn! Maybe someday he will stick to someone else's finger and you will be free to post...
Starcrossed is a giant booger you just can't flick vaughn! Maybe someday he will stick to someone else's finger and you will be free to post again.
At least I read the "Posting Rules" and attempt to follow them.
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 6/10/2015 3:43pm
6/10/2015 3:43pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Starcrossed is a giant booger you just can't flick vaughn! Maybe someday he will stick to someone else's finger and you will be free to post...
Starcrossed is a giant booger you just can't flick vaughn! Maybe someday he will stick to someone else's finger and you will be free to post again.
Starcrossed wrote:
At least I read the "Posting Rules" and attempt to follow them.
There's nothing in the rules about stalking? Then I guess you're good. Carry on.
Starcrossed
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Starcrossed 6/10/2015 3:57pm
6/10/2015 3:57pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2015 4:17pm
GrapeApe wrote:
There's nothing in the rules about stalking? Then I guess you're good. Carry on.
Yeah, no, you're way off the mark here. My initial response was to the last post in the thread when I read it. Go back and take a look. Also I respectfully agree with the poster who said that you seem to be "playing some sort of bizarre unofficial forum police."

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KMC440
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KMC440 6/10/2015 4:15pm
6/10/2015 4:15pm
Chadillac661 wrote:
This just in... Canadian MX Nationals rule update: For the 2016 CMRC Rockstar Energy Drink MX Nationals, the following amended rules will apply to 250 two-stroke...
This just in... Canadian MX Nationals rule update:

For the 2016 CMRC Rockstar Energy Drink MX Nationals, the following amended rules will apply to 250 two-stroke motorcycles in order to be eligible for competition:

1) The bike must remain in stock form from the intake manifold to the exhaust port, and all engine parts between those two points. All engine parts (ie. cylinder, cylinder head, piston, rings, rod, etc.) must be OEM for that year model.

2) All two stroke engines must compete with a rag in the airbox at all events.

3) All two stroke engines must run the same spark plug for the entire series.
4) Reeds must be replaced with a six of clubs playing card.
MauriceR
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MauriceR 6/10/2015 4:15pm
6/10/2015 4:15pm
pretty even off the start, he got beat by a couple of 4 strokes

Notice the rear wheel above #39's head in the pic, not sure who went down there



jeffro503
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jeffro503 6/10/2015 4:19pm
6/10/2015 4:19pm
I honestly think Canada is onto something here and I know for myself , I'd be happy if they changed the damn rules here in the states for pro MX and SX. 10yrs ago I could see and understand why the rules are the way they are. But now? The 250F's have made leaps and bounds in improvements , and it just sucks that a bike with the same CC ( one that has been around for decades mind you ) isn't allowed to race in it's own class. The bike that STARTED that class to begin with. Politics! And bullshit!
GrapeApe
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GrapeApe 6/10/2015 4:25pm
6/10/2015 4:25pm
Starcrossed wrote:
Yeah, no, you're way off the mark here. My initial response was to the last post in the thread when I read it. Go back and...
Yeah, no, you're way off the mark here. My initial response was to the last post in the thread when I read it. Go back and take a look. Also I respectfully agree with the poster who said that you seem to be "playing some sort of bizarre unofficial forum police."
Haha, be careful agreeing with that poster. You should run a search for the "The Dead Pool", and take a look at the list.
Starcrossed
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Starcrossed 6/10/2015 4:34pm
6/10/2015 4:34pm
GrapeApe wrote:
Haha, be careful agreeing with that poster. You should run a search for the "The Dead Pool", and take a look at the list.
Gotta be careful about a lot of things around here. I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers, but seem to have gotten you awfully pissed off...unfortunately.
Aaryn234
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Aaryn234 6/10/2015 6:11pm
6/10/2015 6:11pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2015 6:12pm
jeffro503 wrote:
I honestly think Canada is onto something here and I know for myself , I'd be happy if they changed the damn rules here in the...
I honestly think Canada is onto something here and I know for myself , I'd be happy if they changed the damn rules here in the states for pro MX and SX. 10yrs ago I could see and understand why the rules are the way they are. But now? The 250F's have made leaps and bounds in improvements , and it just sucks that a bike with the same CC ( one that has been around for decades mind you ) isn't allowed to race in it's own class. The bike that STARTED that class to begin with. Politics! And bullshit!
Canada / THE CMRC took that rule straight from the Australian MX Nationals who also put that rule in place this year.

From memory when the CMRC made the annoucement about the rule changes the PR even mentioned they were following the Australian rules.

Last year there were quite a few 2 strokes up front in Aus, again from memory they won 6 of the ten rounds, maybe more but at least six with Arbon and Ward winning 3 rounds each.

Both riders are on four strokes this year and Ward once again leads the way for most round wins in the class.

No two stroke has won a moto so far in Australia after the first five rounds of the 2015 MX Nationals. A couple of hole-shots though.

Top 250 two stroke rider in the standings is Kiwi Hamish Harwood in 9th. The two riders in 10th and 11th are also on KTM 250 two strokes.

Also in Australia in all forms of Motocross, from local club meetings, state events and nationals, the 250 two stroke HAS to race in the MX2 / 250 class, they are no longer allowed to race against the 450s in the MX1 class.

To run them in the MX1 class at any level they need a big bore kit in them!
mark_swart
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mark_swart 6/10/2015 6:25pm
6/10/2015 6:25pm
jeffro503 wrote:
Amazing. How dare KTM build a lighter , more powerful , less expensive , more simple designed motor based on a 40yr old tech! If I...
Amazing. How dare KTM build a lighter , more powerful , less expensive , more simple designed motor based on a 40yr old tech! If I was Honda I would be pissed that those old designed motors were beating my more expensive , heavier , mechanically impossible to work on , with less HP type motors. How dare they!
Krazyk2774 wrote:
four strokes are really not that hard to work on, if you can change a top end on a two stroke, you can do it on...
four strokes are really not that hard to work on, if you can change a top end on a two stroke, you can do it on a four also. just a couple extra steps involved. Now if you grenade a four stroke, then it gets expensive ! lol
Sure, if you can do it on a 2T you can do it on a 4T, but it will literally take twice as long and involve twice as many parts. You spend more time just screwing with the timing alone than it takes to put the cylinder back on a case-reed 2T!!. A couple extra steps?? No, not really.

Don't get me wrong, I ride a 450F so I'm not a tin-foil hat 2T nut job, but there is a LOT more to a top end job and maintenance in general on a four stroke as opposed to a two stroke!!
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 6/10/2015 6:43pm
6/10/2015 6:43pm
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR...

It ain't the bike. You fools.

He wins no matter what engine is in the chassis. 4T or 2T. No matter.

And...those of you hating on Honda? Idiots.
It was Yamaha that showed up with that first 400 in 1997.

If I were to try my damnedest to post shit as f'ing stupid as some of you post...I'd have to drink a liter of shitty Tequila and still...I'd have to invent some realllllllllly ridiculous shit...like what we have in here...

But, I digress.
ReturnofJorddo 6/10/2015 8:19pm
6/10/2015 8:19pm
Last year Kaven was winning on the 2 stroke, and he was winning on the 4 stroke. Maffenbeier was on a YZ250 in 2013 and was on a YZ250f for 14 and 15. Its all personal preference, its not like the all the 2 smokes always finish ahead of the 4 bangers, usually the 4 strokes do better, and there are more 4 stroke riders than 2 stroke riders. I love to root for the Canadians to win but Im gonna say Jimmy D will get the MX2 title and Metty will claim his 2nd MX1 title.
jeffro503
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jeffro503 6/10/2015 9:11pm
6/10/2015 9:11pm
I didn't get into blaming Honda for anything , but it was kind of known years ago that even though Yamaha had brought the YZF400 into the game , once 2002 came along , Honda was a big player that tried to push the 2 strokes out. The 4 stroke rules KILLED the 125 class and at the same time gave the 250 2 stroke a death sentence by having to run up against the 450's. I bet DC could shed some light on this as well. And what I mean by pushing them out is , they wouldn't let the same size CC motors race against each other. " Back then " I could see their argument , now days , not so much.

Bottom line is , when all the new 4 stroke stuff came into play , we were all forced to start riding them , or just not be competitive. The 4 Jap brands knew this and the story was over.

It's not just Canada who made these new changes as this is what " aaryn #234 " posted above :
Also in Australia in all forms of Motocross, from local club meetings, state events and nationals, the 250 two stroke HAS to race in the MX2 / 250 class, they are no longer allowed to race against the 450s in the MX1 class.

To run them in the MX1 class at any level they need a big bore kit in them!

That tells me that these guys are ahead of the curve. And what brings me to my original post. CC vs CC the 2 stroke isn't really superior compared to what it used to be. And they should be allowed to race 250 vs 250 here in the states in MX and SX.

The ONLY thing that is keeping them out of the pro racing here is politics. That's it. Between Canada and Australia , they have already proven that the 4 stroke and 2 stroke are a great match. I think they would be here as well.
FI2T
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FI2T 6/10/2015 9:53pm
6/10/2015 9:53pm
The rules changed.... They need to change again! Good for Canada and Australia! One thing that bugs me about the rules. Have to run a big bore in MX1? Damn it KTM or Yamaha build a big bore 2t! Please!!!
h&m_cycle
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h&m_cycle 6/10/2015 10:27pm
6/10/2015 10:27pm Edited Date/Time 6/10/2015 10:39pm
hvaughn88 wrote:
I've asked this question before and never got a good answer, but why does Honda get most the reference for two-stroke hate? I'm asking because I'm...
I've asked this question before and never got a good answer, but why does Honda get most the reference for two-stroke hate? I'm asking because I'm assuming I must have missed something.
Starcrossed wrote:
Your assumption is correct, sir.
hvaughn88 wrote:
Would you care to educate me on what that is?
Here's a old thread... regarding Honda & the 2 stroke http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Super-Hunky-Honda-green-o…

You can go to Super Hunky's site... Former editor of Dirt Bike Magazine... He has I think, a 5 part series on the conspiracy...
Only thing Super Hunky dislikes more then 4 strokes is Obama...Laughing

Here's another thread, talks about DC trying to get the 250 smokers in the 250 class outdoors... Only KTM was interested
and promised not to bring Tommy Searle over, (according to MXA... http://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/What-would-happen-if-they…

http://articles.superhunky.com/4/106

also Racer X claims GuyB asked this question to the head of HRC, it's from the June issue I have... I was told he didn't,
but it wasn't GuyB who told me he didn't

"ZERO", HRC boss Shuhei Nakamoto when asked by ____ "What is HRC's stance on 2 stroke, any development
what's so ever"?

SDTony YZ ESR 325 6/11/2015 6:44am
6/11/2015 6:44am
Cost, Cost and Cost !!!!

Those who support Four strokes in the 250 class do not understand or either ignore Cost!

Cost will kill most 250 4 strokes and then 2 strokes will rule...............................This a fact that Honda and every factory will have to deal with. There is no great economy to support ever increasing cost for 4 strokes and the only riders in the top positions are factory or money supported riders.

What happens when a 350, 400 or 450 - 2- Stroke comes out, its only a matter of time then the cost will increase the use of 2 strokes again......

You can't spend what you do not have Honda?
newmann
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newmann 6/11/2015 6:51am
6/11/2015 6:51am
Two full pages of a 2 stroke thread and I was nowhere to be found. My how times have changed.Cool

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mxracer239
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mxracer239 6/11/2015 7:26am
6/11/2015 7:26am
I wonder what the cost is to run a 250 four stroke all year opposed to running the 2 stroke?
chillrich
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chillrich 6/11/2015 7:27am
6/11/2015 7:27am
SDTony YZ ESR 325 wrote:
Cost, Cost and Cost !!!! Those who support Four strokes in the 250 class do not understand or either ignore Cost! Cost will kill most 250...
Cost, Cost and Cost !!!!

Those who support Four strokes in the 250 class do not understand or either ignore Cost!

Cost will kill most 250 4 strokes and then 2 strokes will rule...............................This a fact that Honda and every factory will have to deal with. There is no great economy to support ever increasing cost for 4 strokes and the only riders in the top positions are factory or money supported riders.

What happens when a 350, 400 or 450 - 2- Stroke comes out, its only a matter of time then the cost will increase the use of 2 strokes again......

You can't spend what you do not have Honda?
Have fun holding on to that 400-450 2 stroke.Shocked
SDTony YZ ESR 325 6/11/2015 7:44am
6/11/2015 7:44am
Your right the old motors were hard to hold on to.

At this time the 300cc 2 stroke is the best value for the dollar but a detuned 350, 400 or 450 2 stroke in a contempoary frame would be way less costly and yet have the torque of a 450 4 stroke.

Win Win for the rider and the SPORT!
Spartacus
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Spartacus 6/11/2015 7:56am
6/11/2015 7:56am
newmann wrote:
Two full pages of a 2 stroke thread and I was nowhere to be found. My how times have changed.Cool
Funny how the kids here remember it was Yamaha that brought 4T into the game when we remember when 2T took over from 4T in the first damm place.
cslacker
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cslacker 6/11/2015 8:20am
6/11/2015 8:20am
TeamGreen wrote:
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR... It ain't the bike...
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR...

It ain't the bike. You fools.

He wins no matter what engine is in the chassis. 4T or 2T. No matter.

And...those of you hating on Honda? Idiots.
It was Yamaha that showed up with that first 400 in 1997.

If I were to try my damnedest to post shit as f'ing stupid as some of you post...I'd have to drink a liter of shitty Tequila and still...I'd have to invent some realllllllllly ridiculous shit...like what we have in here...

But, I digress.
Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but who said he was winning BECAUSE he was on a 2 stroke? I really think people just appreciate that someone on a 2 stroke is doing well and would like to see more of it.

Didn't you post something a few days back about how 2 stroke lovers should go to a Canadian National race to watch guys on 2 strokes compete? Seems to me those same guys are on threads like these talking about how they wish it could happen in the states too and then you bash them for it...

I personally just like watching good racing. Adding 2 strokes into the pro classes adds some excitement for me and can spark some good bench racing smack talk. Isn't that what this site is all about? Having fun BSing about MX?

Just sayin....
OW38B
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OW38B 6/11/2015 8:51am
6/11/2015 8:51am
TeamGreen wrote:
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR... It ain't the bike...
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR...

It ain't the bike. You fools.

He wins no matter what engine is in the chassis. 4T or 2T. No matter.

And...those of you hating on Honda? Idiots.
It was Yamaha that showed up with that first 400 in 1997.

If I were to try my damnedest to post shit as f'ing stupid as some of you post...I'd have to drink a liter of shitty Tequila and still...I'd have to invent some realllllllllly ridiculous shit...like what we have in here...

But, I digress.
cslacker wrote:
Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but who said he was winning BECAUSE he was on a 2 stroke? I really think people just appreciate that...
Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but who said he was winning BECAUSE he was on a 2 stroke? I really think people just appreciate that someone on a 2 stroke is doing well and would like to see more of it.

Didn't you post something a few days back about how 2 stroke lovers should go to a Canadian National race to watch guys on 2 strokes compete? Seems to me those same guys are on threads like these talking about how they wish it could happen in the states too and then you bash them for it...

I personally just like watching good racing. Adding 2 strokes into the pro classes adds some excitement for me and can spark some good bench racing smack talk. Isn't that what this site is all about? Having fun BSing about MX?

Just sayin....
^ This Gent gets it...........Team Greenie not so much.
notme
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notme 6/11/2015 8:55am
6/11/2015 8:55am
Notice Leading Edge has no riders in MX2 this year? I bet they blew the budget for a few years with the dismal failure record from 14', that was brutal!
ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 6/11/2015 9:05am
6/11/2015 9:05am
TeamGreen wrote:
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR... It ain't the bike...
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR...

It ain't the bike. You fools.

He wins no matter what engine is in the chassis. 4T or 2T. No matter.

And...those of you hating on Honda? Idiots.
It was Yamaha that showed up with that first 400 in 1997.

If I were to try my damnedest to post shit as f'ing stupid as some of you post...I'd have to drink a liter of shitty Tequila and still...I'd have to invent some realllllllllly ridiculous shit...like what we have in here...

But, I digress.
cslacker wrote:
Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but who said he was winning BECAUSE he was on a 2 stroke? I really think people just appreciate that...
Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but who said he was winning BECAUSE he was on a 2 stroke? I really think people just appreciate that someone on a 2 stroke is doing well and would like to see more of it.

Didn't you post something a few days back about how 2 stroke lovers should go to a Canadian National race to watch guys on 2 strokes compete? Seems to me those same guys are on threads like these talking about how they wish it could happen in the states too and then you bash them for it...

I personally just like watching good racing. Adding 2 strokes into the pro classes adds some excitement for me and can spark some good bench racing smack talk. Isn't that what this site is all about? Having fun BSing about MX?

Just sayin....
Boom!
Tracktor
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Tracktor 6/11/2015 9:19am
6/11/2015 9:19am
Yeah them two-strokes are dirt cheap. I mean only $5500+ for a KTM 65 & $4500+ for a 50. Wow, thanks KTM for the great bargains!!.........................Yes, they are great bikes but where does this "two-strokes are cheap" bullshit come from?................
SDTony YZ ESR 325 6/11/2015 9:23am
6/11/2015 9:23am
Yes here is the next big team? NOT.....why COST!!!

OLD Article.................
Posted by Management in Breaking News, PRO Nationals
Is Leading Edge Poised to Become New Superteam?

May 15, 2013

Is Leading Edge Kawasaki Poised to Become the New Canadian MX Superteam and Who Can Stop Them?
With Round 1 of the 2013 Monster Energy Motocross Nationals due to get underway in a little over two weeks’ time, a flurry of activity has been going on behind the scenes in preparation for what promises to be one of the most competitive racing seasons in the CMRC’s 21-year history of national motocross sanctioning.

Spent a bunch of money and now nothing for MX2! This is what 250 4 Stroke racing is all about, LOTS OF MONEY!

250 2 Stroke Motorcycles will replace 250 4 strokes, bet on it!

A direct injected 250 to 450 2 Stroke would be just as Linear of a Power Band as the 4 stroke with a computer controlled engine, check out Ski-doo's engine. There might be a small amount of increase in price off the showroom floor but the RECURRING cost would be 30% to 50%+ LESS over a racing season, Engine work is expensive.

http://www.ski-doo.com/technologies/engine-technologies/2-strokes


MX-GP looks like it is going down the F1 direction (Factory Success is as important as the rider) which I am for (F1 Fan) but this is ONLY for factory riders.

I for one will never buy a 4 stroke again.....
newmann
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newmann 6/11/2015 9:43am
6/11/2015 9:43am
Stock two stroke 250 and a stock 4 stroke 250 are about the same money. The fact that you show up to the line with a stock 250 2 stroke engine lined up next to a $10,000.00-$25,000.00 modded 250F engine designed to last one day is the beauty of it all. Better have a spare thumper mill in the trailer too! Of course 25 grand would probably be on the low end for one of Chimichanga's engines...Shocked

The Japanese aren't happy that we won't bow to their almighty 4 stroke. Meanwhile KTM continues to kick ass giving the customer what they want. And speaking of want, that FE250 was looking mighty good the other day. What is the weight on that thing now??? Can't be owning a bike that is fatter than I!Laughing
TeamGreen
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TeamGreen 6/11/2015 9:55am
6/11/2015 9:55am
TeamGreen wrote:
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR... It ain't the bike...
Someday, the ignorance will stop and some of you 'tards will go see Benoit ride and realize...that...JUST AS HE PROVED LAST YEAR...

It ain't the bike. You fools.

He wins no matter what engine is in the chassis. 4T or 2T. No matter.

And...those of you hating on Honda? Idiots.
It was Yamaha that showed up with that first 400 in 1997.

If I were to try my damnedest to post shit as f'ing stupid as some of you post...I'd have to drink a liter of shitty Tequila and still...I'd have to invent some realllllllllly ridiculous shit...like what we have in here...

But, I digress.
cslacker wrote:
Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but who said he was winning BECAUSE he was on a 2 stroke? I really think people just appreciate that...
Maybe I wasn't paying enough attention but who said he was winning BECAUSE he was on a 2 stroke? I really think people just appreciate that someone on a 2 stroke is doing well and would like to see more of it.

Didn't you post something a few days back about how 2 stroke lovers should go to a Canadian National race to watch guys on 2 strokes compete? Seems to me those same guys are on threads like these talking about how they wish it could happen in the states too and then you bash them for it...

I personally just like watching good racing. Adding 2 strokes into the pro classes adds some excitement for me and can spark some good bench racing smack talk. Isn't that what this site is all about? Having fun BSing about MX?

Just sayin....
OW38B wrote:
^ This Gent gets it...........Team Greenie not so much.
I guess you don't read the entire thread before you post a rebuttal? No worries. I do.

So, go back...read the whole thing...and get back to me.

As for the idea that you can post this shit whithout seeing the usual Two-Stroke-Taliban BS...well...that's on you.

Let's be clear: I -DID- post a thread that the 2-stroke guys SHOULD go up to Canada nad see what's goping on...'cause, it's AWESOME. Benoit is amazing. The sound of his bike is Amazing. The whole damn Canadian Scene is AMAZING.

The comlete Fools-Folly BS that idiots post about 2-Strokes being killed by Honda...etc. ...?

That's just Stupid.

Post a reply to: Canadian Smoke-Show