Justin Hill's Dad on Pulp MX

level
Posts
6184
Joined
8/27/2006
Location
Acworth, GA, USA
6/3/2015 1:59pm
I don't think flagging is as much of an issue as blind spots. Get rid of the blind spots and problem solved. Flaggers can only do so much.
DC
Posts
3889
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV, USA
6/3/2015 2:41pm
Gang, it was an unfortunate accident and if I was Mr. Hill I would be upset too. We are studying what happened and trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. After that Malcolm/Weimer crash happened at High Point last year in that blind spot we made plans to redesign the track, which you will see next week and hopefully the riders will enjoy it.
As for a riders' union, I'm not sure how that would have helped make that flagger react any quicker, and while I have my personal opinions of how a union may or may not help make the sport better (I live in West Virginia which has had a mixed history of unions over coal and gas industries) it doesn't matter to me if someone is for or against having one, so I have no clue why Mr. Hill would be concerned about losing a credential for being critical of the flagging or calling for a union for whatever reason.
Flagging is not as easy as it looks, and I wish we had one solid group that went to all twelve rounds, but until we can afford that, we have to keep working to make it better and prevent this kind of chain-reaction crashes from happening. Our promoters work hard to get the best flaggers possible for their events. I really hope Justin will be back this week, as well as Mr. Hill.
DC
MX Sports
njracer46
Posts
713
Joined
3/20/2011
Location
USA
6/3/2015 2:44pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 3:00pm
level wrote:
I don't think flagging is as much of an issue as blind spots. Get rid of the blind spots and problem solved. Flaggers can only do...
I don't think flagging is as much of an issue as blind spots. Get rid of the blind spots and problem solved. Flaggers can only do so much.
I know what you're saying but a lot of blind spots are natural parts of the track. Just a few that come to mind would be gravity cavity, sky shot, the hill coming up to screw you, the big gulp (plus almost every section of budds) the leap, the list can go on and on.

Here's another problem, flagging towers are usually set up pretty far of the jump. You can have your back turned to watch with out crapping your pants but you usually have to hang out of the stand pretty far to get the riders attention. If you're standing on the side of the jump you have the ability to walk to the middle to really slow people down if someone goes down in the middle of the track and is down hard. Easier for people to see you, but on the flip side having your back turned watching a landing that close can be pretty scary every time you hear a bike coming up. Exp on the first lap when everyone is close together, doesn't take much for someone to get squirrelly and come flying out of control at you while you don't even Know it's coming. It's not as easy as people think it is, it takes quick reaction time and the ability to scan back and forth very fast. Think pong from Atari.
ACBraap
Posts
1169
Joined
2/10/2012
Location
Seattlish, WA, USA
Fantasy
6/3/2015 2:54pm
DC wrote:
Gang, it was an unfortunate accident and if I was Mr. Hill I would be upset too. We are studying what happened and trying to make...
Gang, it was an unfortunate accident and if I was Mr. Hill I would be upset too. We are studying what happened and trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. After that Malcolm/Weimer crash happened at High Point last year in that blind spot we made plans to redesign the track, which you will see next week and hopefully the riders will enjoy it.
As for a riders' union, I'm not sure how that would have helped make that flagger react any quicker, and while I have my personal opinions of how a union may or may not help make the sport better (I live in West Virginia which has had a mixed history of unions over coal and gas industries) it doesn't matter to me if someone is for or against having one, so I have no clue why Mr. Hill would be concerned about losing a credential for being critical of the flagging or calling for a union for whatever reason.
Flagging is not as easy as it looks, and I wish we had one solid group that went to all twelve rounds, but until we can afford that, we have to keep working to make it better and prevent this kind of chain-reaction crashes from happening. Our promoters work hard to get the best flaggers possible for their events. I really hope Justin will be back this week, as well as Mr. Hill.
DC
MX Sports
One way it could make the sport better is by preventing series sponsor contracts with exclusivity (this GoPro deal is utter BS...), another is by giving riders and teams a say in rule making (250 teams being surprised by seemingly unknown rule changes that force a rider out of the class early), revisit who can throw a black flag and when - make it more objective and consistent, decisions regarding whether to work on tracks between motos, etc. Even as just a fan it's obvious riders are getting the short end of the stick a lot of times.

I took Monte Hill's point as the asymmetrical impact of the flaggers error. As in, the rider bears the entire risk.

Frankly, the best thing the SX and MX series could do is drop the FIM affiliation and engage with the riders and teams.

The Shop

OnRails
Posts
223
Joined
12/5/2013
Location
CA
6/3/2015 3:08pm
RPM68 wrote:
we need red lights on blind corners like supercross triples. God forbid it cost the track money to make riders safe.
you can't see lights in the middle of the day...
DC
Posts
3889
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV, USA
6/3/2015 4:03pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 4:12pm
AC, thanks, I agree with several of your points but there is no advancement in MX's 250 class and our series has no FIM affiliation, and any rider or team manager is welcome to give input on the tracks and we are in constant conversations with some over the weekend. There's not a lot of time between Motos to converse with everyone but when someone has an issue we try to address it immediately. And we have just one sponsorship category with exclusivity and have no plans to add more.
DC
MX Sports
WVUpetro2013
Posts
427
Joined
3/18/2015
Location
Hurricane, WV, USA
6/3/2015 4:13pm
DC wrote:
Gang, it was an unfortunate accident and if I was Mr. Hill I would be upset too. We are studying what happened and trying to make...
Gang, it was an unfortunate accident and if I was Mr. Hill I would be upset too. We are studying what happened and trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. After that Malcolm/Weimer crash happened at High Point last year in that blind spot we made plans to redesign the track, which you will see next week and hopefully the riders will enjoy it.
As for a riders' union, I'm not sure how that would have helped make that flagger react any quicker, and while I have my personal opinions of how a union may or may not help make the sport better (I live in West Virginia which has had a mixed history of unions over coal and gas industries) it doesn't matter to me if someone is for or against having one, so I have no clue why Mr. Hill would be concerned about losing a credential for being critical of the flagging or calling for a union for whatever reason.
Flagging is not as easy as it looks, and I wish we had one solid group that went to all twelve rounds, but until we can afford that, we have to keep working to make it better and prevent this kind of chain-reaction crashes from happening. Our promoters work hard to get the best flaggers possible for their events. I really hope Justin will be back this week, as well as Mr. Hill.
DC
MX Sports
It's good to see that you guy are looking into the designs of the tracks to see how to make them safer. I have always enjoyed that section but if there is a safer just as fun way then I think that is great. Also, I think the idea of traveling flaggers is a good idea and as far as funding could you have the flaggers be sponsored by maybe a protection company? Such as evs? Just a thought.
newmann
Posts
24438
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
USA
6/3/2015 4:18pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 4:23pm
DC wrote:
AC, thanks, I agree with several of your points but there is no advancement in MX's 250 class and our series has no FIM affiliation, and...
AC, thanks, I agree with several of your points but there is no advancement in MX's 250 class and our series has no FIM affiliation, and any rider or team manager is welcome to give input on the tracks and we are in constant conversations with some over the weekend. There's not a lot of time between Motos to converse with everyone but when someone has an issue we try to address it immediately. And we have just one sponsorship category with exclusivity and have no plans to add more.
DC
MX Sports
While there may be no 250 advancement in MX, there is in SX. Most teams aren't going to have riders bouncing between classes for SX and MX, right? Several riders have had careers cut short and lost rides because they were bumped up or pointed out. It's even caused racers to purposely throw races and possibly championships so that they would have a job next year. AC did mention this in regards to the sport in general, not just outdoors but the effect does carry over, correct? I know, going off topic.

Back on topic, where was dad when Josh was out practicing backflips when he should have been focusing on what he was hired for...racing?
Crush
Posts
21095
Joined
4/26/2009
Location
Sydney, AU
6/3/2015 5:41pm
DC wrote:
AC, thanks, I agree with several of your points but there is no advancement in MX's 250 class and our series has no FIM affiliation, and...
AC, thanks, I agree with several of your points but there is no advancement in MX's 250 class and our series has no FIM affiliation, and any rider or team manager is welcome to give input on the tracks and we are in constant conversations with some over the weekend. There's not a lot of time between Motos to converse with everyone but when someone has an issue we try to address it immediately. And we have just one sponsorship category with exclusivity and have no plans to add more.
DC
MX Sports
newmann wrote:
While there may be no 250 advancement in MX, there is in SX. Most teams aren't going to have riders bouncing between classes for SX and...
While there may be no 250 advancement in MX, there is in SX. Most teams aren't going to have riders bouncing between classes for SX and MX, right? Several riders have had careers cut short and lost rides because they were bumped up or pointed out. It's even caused racers to purposely throw races and possibly championships so that they would have a job next year. AC did mention this in regards to the sport in general, not just outdoors but the effect does carry over, correct? I know, going off topic.

Back on topic, where was dad when Josh was out practicing backflips when he should have been focusing on what he was hired for...racing?
Agree, and I'd bet the education levels regarding rules doesn't extend to thinking about the differences between the series.

The rule book needs consistency as much as it needs to be clear, especially when most of the people who are meant to adhere to them haven't finished school.
fanger
Posts
838
Joined
3/24/2013
Location
AU
6/3/2015 5:57pm
Mr Hill's concern about losing his credentials for even me mentioning a rider's union shows just how f@cked up this country has become. Don't you dare...
Mr Hill's concern about losing his credentials for even me mentioning a rider's union shows just how f@cked up this country has become. Don't you dare oppose the will of Big Bidness!!!!
Bosco wrote:
As an outsider, this is how I see it. I don't understand why is seems that most Americans are so against unions. How are they a...
As an outsider, this is how I see it. I don't understand why is seems that most Americans are so against unions. How are they a bad thing? Even in regular jobs (not mx), unions protect workers' rights. Why would the workers dislike them?
Lol imagine if restaurant workers former a union and their bosses had to pay them a wage instead of scabbing tips for a living. Freedumb!
6/3/2015 6:30pm
here is the crux of the problem..... and I dare anyone that's been around this sport long enough to shoot this down.

Yellow flag comes out - Riders barely, if at all, slow up. They might, might, shift their line - or they might not.

Countless times every one of us has seen a flag fly and riders are still wide open, scrubbing, regardless if they see the down rider and/or problem associated with the flag. Unless there is a guy standing in the middle of the track waving them to a direction, riders see yellow, but categorically ignore it. sorry, its a fact.

On the flip side Davey

Flaggers that have no clue, and are so poorly placed they cant do their jobs in the slightest - why even have them there?!?! We have all seen this countless times as well. Hes waving his arm off and no one can see it. If you cant trust someone to be in an intelligent position, to then move out onto the race surface to then DIRECT the riders (dig dugs do it!), then they should not have a flag in their hand at a professional race. Sorry, its true.

If there is a jump that's over 3 feet tall, or is blind (think before a big downhill), there should be a flagger at the peak and one 30 feet in front of said obstacle keying off flagger at the jump. Flaggers should be assigned exact positions, instructed on what to do, and the track owner needs to keep the jethro idiots we have all seen flagging the hell out.

Look at the footage of Justins crash. Look at where the flagger was and the type of jump. Kind of explains everything. The best ones are big jumps and some dipshit is flagging at the landing.



.......... side note on GoPro. GoPro PAID MONEY to be the exclusive sponsor ect ect. They aren't a monopoly, they paid for the right to be "the guy". That being said, Lucas Oil doesn't throw a fit teams are using other oils, sponsoring, stickering, ect. Dummy camera as advertising, great, better not be a byte of video shot on it. that's my .02
dboivin
Posts
3170
Joined
5/19/2010
Location
Saginaw, MI, USA
6/3/2015 6:32pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 6:33pm
DC wrote:
Gang, it was an unfortunate accident and if I was Mr. Hill I would be upset too. We are studying what happened and trying to make...
Gang, it was an unfortunate accident and if I was Mr. Hill I would be upset too. We are studying what happened and trying to make sure it doesn't happen again. After that Malcolm/Weimer crash happened at High Point last year in that blind spot we made plans to redesign the track, which you will see next week and hopefully the riders will enjoy it.
As for a riders' union, I'm not sure how that would have helped make that flagger react any quicker, and while I have my personal opinions of how a union may or may not help make the sport better (I live in West Virginia which has had a mixed history of unions over coal and gas industries) it doesn't matter to me if someone is for or against having one, so I have no clue why Mr. Hill would be concerned about losing a credential for being critical of the flagging or calling for a union for whatever reason.
Flagging is not as easy as it looks, and I wish we had one solid group that went to all twelve rounds, but until we can afford that, we have to keep working to make it better and prevent this kind of chain-reaction crashes from happening. Our promoters work hard to get the best flaggers possible for their events. I really hope Justin will be back this week, as well as Mr. Hill.
DC
MX Sports
my first thought was also for a flag crew that traveled the circuit....my second thought was "damn that would be expensive", lol.

i've flagged a few pro races. ITS NOT EASY AS IT LOOKS. Everything is happening at great speeds and a LOT of distraction going on. That being said, it would be nice to get to the point where we could have 10-12 guys that traveled the circuit and here's an my next idea.

how about a pro riders safety association ...an actual "current" pro only association who handles the flagging or overseas flagger training...portion of their sign-up goes to management/control of that said flagging education group. This way the responsibility of finding the best/educating flaggers rests on the riders and not track owner or promoter (not directing this at you davey). This could operate much like asterisk but with local flaggers at each stop (local motorcycle clubs make great flaggers) I Know this is off the wall but just tossing ideas at the wall hoping something may stick for the future to make it better.

6/3/2015 6:58pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 6:59pm
but until we can afford that, we have to keep working to make it better and prevent this kind of chain-reaction crashes from happening.


I'm confused. Can't afford to employ 12-15 guys to travel and flag?

You can't get a sponsor to pony up the cash for that ??? There has to be a way.
DC
Posts
3889
Joined
5/1/2009
Location
Morgantown, WV, USA
6/3/2015 7:25pm
Georgie, Glen Helen used almost 70 flaggers (and they were all Frank's REM guys, and they were awesome). If it's hard to even keep the Asterisk Mobile Medics Unit rolling, you have to realize that even 30 traveling flaggers would be tough. We have a half-dozen "wheels on the ground" guys that are pretty much attend every event and manage tech and all. They work with the local flag crews and everyone does the best they can, but sometimes things happen at the worst possible moment, and folks are either looking somewhere else or in the wrong spot to take immediate action. The human element is always a factor in these situations.

DC
MX Sports
Brad460
Posts
4464
Joined
5/15/2012
Location
Richfield, WI, USA
Fantasy
6/3/2015 7:31pm
[quote]but until we can afford that, we have to keep working to make it better and prevent this kind of chain-reaction crashes from happening. [/quote] I'm...
but until we can afford that, we have to keep working to make it better and prevent this kind of chain-reaction crashes from happening.


I'm confused. Can't afford to employ 12-15 guys to travel and flag?

You can't get a sponsor to pony up the cash for that ??? There has to be a way.
That is confusing? Have you no concept of money? Wow..
disbanded
Posts
6927
Joined
8/26/2007
Location
Evergreen, CO, USA
6/3/2015 7:46pm
Video of the incident?
h&m_cycle
Posts
4410
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH, USA
6/3/2015 7:59pm
RPM68 wrote:
we need red lights on blind corners like supercross triples. God forbid it cost the track money to make riders safe.
Tough to see during day time...
h&m_cycle
Posts
4410
Joined
2/23/2014
Location
Steubenville, OH, USA
6/3/2015 8:02pm
The flagging really has been an issue. I was at the jump at high point when Mookie launched into weimer.(no fault of Mookie it was a...
The flagging really has been an issue. I was at the jump at high point when Mookie launched into weimer.(no fault of Mookie it was a blind area.) it was easily the worst crash I have seen and could have been avoided had the flagger been paying attention.
yeah, me too... Weimer got away lucky... hard to say that but it's true...
TankSlapper
Posts
475
Joined
3/6/2007
Location
Van, down by the river, CA, USA
6/3/2015 8:19pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 8:21pm
Do the guys flagging at the Nationals even get paid? From what I gather, the typical answer is no. I assume it is all on the track owner to supply, train, and pay them (free ticket and t-shirt?). What requirements does MX Sports impose on the track owner with regards to flagging?

The risk of season / career / life ending injury is very real in our sport. How can we cut corners and complain about the expense when it comes to safety, FFS? It seems ridiculous to put the safety and careers of these multi-million dollar athletes at risk by using amateur volunteers in a safety critical role.

How about MX Sports imposing some minimum training / experience and pay requirement for flaggers on the track owners.

There is certainly room for improvement. This happens way too often...
dboivin
Posts
3170
Joined
5/19/2010
Location
Saginaw, MI, USA
6/3/2015 9:45pm Edited Date/Time 6/3/2015 9:47pm
Do the guys flagging at the Nationals even get paid? From what I gather, the typical answer is no. I assume it is all on the...
Do the guys flagging at the Nationals even get paid? From what I gather, the typical answer is no. I assume it is all on the track owner to supply, train, and pay them (free ticket and t-shirt?). What requirements does MX Sports impose on the track owner with regards to flagging?

The risk of season / career / life ending injury is very real in our sport. How can we cut corners and complain about the expense when it comes to safety, FFS? It seems ridiculous to put the safety and careers of these multi-million dollar athletes at risk by using amateur volunteers in a safety critical role.

How about MX Sports imposing some minimum training / experience and pay requirement for flaggers on the track owners.

There is certainly room for improvement. This happens way too often...
yes they get paid. at least i did Smile I think it depends on the track and how the deal is worked out for their respective flaggers for that event. i know guys that will flag in lue of free pass for the weekend to watch the event up close...true fans/racers so they are qualified and take it seriously. i haven't done a national in a while so i'm not sure what the current way of doing it. The Ritchies (red bud) paid around $200 for the day for each flagger at a pro event i did last season and every one of us was involved in mx for quite some time in our lives....so not newbies.
ACBraap
Posts
1169
Joined
2/10/2012
Location
Seattlish, WA, USA
Fantasy
6/3/2015 9:50pm
DC wrote:
Georgie, Glen Helen used almost 70 flaggers (and they were all Frank's REM guys, and they were awesome). If it's hard to even keep the Asterisk...
Georgie, Glen Helen used almost 70 flaggers (and they were all Frank's REM guys, and they were awesome). If it's hard to even keep the Asterisk Mobile Medics Unit rolling, you have to realize that even 30 traveling flaggers would be tough. We have a half-dozen "wheels on the ground" guys that are pretty much attend every event and manage tech and all. They work with the local flag crews and everyone does the best they can, but sometimes things happen at the worst possible moment, and folks are either looking somewhere else or in the wrong spot to take immediate action. The human element is always a factor in these situations.

DC
MX Sports
Totally get that...but as a numbers guy, I can tell you 'the moneys not there' doesn't fly unless the financials are disclosed (and i realize as a private company you and the other promoters have no obligation to disclose anything). But without disclosure, it's 'trust me, I won't c&m in your mouth'.

And yes, I mixed sx and mx rules in the previous post - for us fans, it's all 'the sport'. Trying to have separate rules for the two is silly IMO.
Mit12
Posts
2205
Joined
6/23/2014
Location
Lake Havasu City, AZ, USA
6/3/2015 10:16pm
I say ask the riders that did not qulaify for the race to flag. May be they could earn the next race entry fee for their services. Who better to flag than a rider?
plowboy
Posts
14394
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS, USA
6/4/2015 1:17am
Bosco wrote:
As an outsider, this is how I see it. I don't understand why is seems that most Americans are so against unions. How are they a...
As an outsider, this is how I see it. I don't understand why is seems that most Americans are so against unions. How are they a bad thing? Even in regular jobs (not mx), unions protect workers' rights. Why would the workers dislike them?
Never ever presume to speak as an "outsider" here. I made that mistake once...never again. The one and ONLY outsider will be around to correct your arrogence.
plowboy
Posts
14394
Joined
1/3/2010
Location
Norwich, KS, USA
6/4/2015 1:22am
DC wrote:
Georgie, Glen Helen used almost 70 flaggers (and they were all Frank's REM guys, and they were awesome). If it's hard to even keep the Asterisk...
Georgie, Glen Helen used almost 70 flaggers (and they were all Frank's REM guys, and they were awesome). If it's hard to even keep the Asterisk Mobile Medics Unit rolling, you have to realize that even 30 traveling flaggers would be tough. We have a half-dozen "wheels on the ground" guys that are pretty much attend every event and manage tech and all. They work with the local flag crews and everyone does the best they can, but sometimes things happen at the worst possible moment, and folks are either looking somewhere else or in the wrong spot to take immediate action. The human element is always a factor in these situations.

DC
MX Sports
As usual a voice of reason. Thanks DC.
41NDT
Posts
855
Joined
3/19/2007
Location
AU
6/4/2015 2:03am
here is the crux of the problem..... and I dare anyone that's been around this sport long enough to shoot this down. Yellow flag comes out...
here is the crux of the problem..... and I dare anyone that's been around this sport long enough to shoot this down.

Yellow flag comes out - Riders barely, if at all, slow up. They might, might, shift their line - or they might not.

Countless times every one of us has seen a flag fly and riders are still wide open, scrubbing, regardless if they see the down rider and/or problem associated with the flag. Unless there is a guy standing in the middle of the track waving them to a direction, riders see yellow, but categorically ignore it. sorry, its a fact.

On the flip side Davey

Flaggers that have no clue, and are so poorly placed they cant do their jobs in the slightest - why even have them there?!?! We have all seen this countless times as well. Hes waving his arm off and no one can see it. If you cant trust someone to be in an intelligent position, to then move out onto the race surface to then DIRECT the riders (dig dugs do it!), then they should not have a flag in their hand at a professional race. Sorry, its true.

If there is a jump that's over 3 feet tall, or is blind (think before a big downhill), there should be a flagger at the peak and one 30 feet in front of said obstacle keying off flagger at the jump. Flaggers should be assigned exact positions, instructed on what to do, and the track owner needs to keep the jethro idiots we have all seen flagging the hell out.

Look at the footage of Justins crash. Look at where the flagger was and the type of jump. Kind of explains everything. The best ones are big jumps and some dipshit is flagging at the landing.



.......... side note on GoPro. GoPro PAID MONEY to be the exclusive sponsor ect ect. They aren't a monopoly, they paid for the right to be "the guy". That being said, Lucas Oil doesn't throw a fit teams are using other oils, sponsoring, stickering, ect. Dummy camera as advertising, great, better not be a byte of video shot on it. that's my .02
2nd and 3rd paragraph UNFORTUNATELY are so true.
A major problem is the yellow flag being displayed all to often (as per rules) for a rider stalled or "dropped it" in a perfectly visible 180° corner which isn't needed. Now put a jump in front of these said corners and you can see where this lack of observing the caution flag comes from as well as whe are dealing with under developed young full of spunk home schooled brains here. Let's not throw these flagers under the bus there here to help the sport how about some education or real penalties for riders who haven't observed the caution flag then watch there amazing observation powers kick in. I also bet that the majority of these top rides who's parents who bitch probably have never put there hand up to volunteer for flag, there the ones who sit in there cozy pit area and ignore the frequent calls for volunteers
Jrewing
Posts
2863
Joined
1/4/2014
Location
AU
6/4/2015 3:01am
41NDT wrote:
2nd and 3rd paragraph UNFORTUNATELY are so true. A major problem is the yellow flag being displayed all to often (as per rules) for a rider...
2nd and 3rd paragraph UNFORTUNATELY are so true.
A major problem is the yellow flag being displayed all to often (as per rules) for a rider stalled or "dropped it" in a perfectly visible 180° corner which isn't needed. Now put a jump in front of these said corners and you can see where this lack of observing the caution flag comes from as well as whe are dealing with under developed young full of spunk home schooled brains here. Let's not throw these flagers under the bus there here to help the sport how about some education or real penalties for riders who haven't observed the caution flag then watch there amazing observation powers kick in. I also bet that the majority of these top rides who's parents who bitch probably have never put there hand up to volunteer for flag, there the ones who sit in there cozy pit area and ignore the frequent calls for volunteers
Squirrel nuts is bang on.

More fitness tips please....
ChrisB10
Posts
2082
Joined
5/24/2014
Location
Plattsburgh, NY, USA
6/4/2015 4:09am
RPM68 wrote:
we need red lights on blind corners like supercross triples. God forbid it cost the track money to make riders safe.
huck wrote:
Yeah, because nobody gets hurt on SX triples anymore, with the red lights there.....
So because some people still get hurt they are useless? R u seriously that dumb?
6/4/2015 5:46am
RPM68 wrote:
we need red lights on blind corners like supercross triples. God forbid it cost the track money to make riders safe.
huck wrote:
Yeah, because nobody gets hurt on SX triples anymore, with the red lights there.....
Well then let's just do nothing and let Darwin sort it out.

Post a reply to: Justin Hill's Dad on Pulp MX

The Latest