Official JS7 appeal lost

IWreckALot
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4/29/2015 7:13am
So it's only cheating if you don't have a prescription for it? But if you find a doctor to write a prescription, it's legal to take that "PED"?
ktmwoods
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4/29/2015 7:30am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2015 12:13pm
Are all of you haters satisfied now. "Source or STFU"?? Really.
JM485
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4/29/2015 7:57am
bobby397 wrote:
Everyone use to complain because of the lack of drug testing in this sport and now you complain because the person who gets caught isn't allowed...
Everyone use to complain because of the lack of drug testing in this sport and now you complain because the person who gets caught isn't allowed to race?
I already covered that in an earlier post.

"And before anybody says "this is what everyone wanted, and this is the result", no, nobody told us that we would be essentially selling our souls to the testing organization, and had we been aware of how things would be handled I'm willing to bet the consensus would have been a lot different."
jamma10
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4/29/2015 8:05am
TDeath21 wrote:
At first, I expected James to be at Hangtown. When it was taking forever though, I figured he had lost his appeal. I don't understand how...
At first, I expected James to be at Hangtown. When it was taking forever though, I figured he had lost his appeal.

I don't understand how NOBODY, not James, not his team, not his family, not his friends, etc. ever thought, "Hey you're taking medication and you're a professional athlete. Let's make sure we have the proper paperwork." Either that, or ANY of them knowing the rules in the first place. When you're a professional athlete, it's common knowledge to make sure that any medication you're taking is legal and that you have the documentation for it.
Precisely!

The Shop

ML512
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4/29/2015 8:07am
Rick M. wrote:
Why is everyone freaking out over this lame (troll) post??!! PEOPLE, take a step back, and stop bashing FIM, an Feld for pete sakes. James Stewart...
Why is everyone freaking out over this lame (troll) post??!! PEOPLE, take a step back, and stop bashing FIM, an Feld for pete sakes. James Stewart will be at Hangtown, I still have faith in humanity, and justice. I also am sticking with my source that told me 2 months ago that he will be back. Go stew!
Hmmm....
Crush
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4/29/2015 8:07am
TDeath21 wrote:
At first, I expected James to be at Hangtown. When it was taking forever though, I figured he had lost his appeal. I don't understand how...
At first, I expected James to be at Hangtown. When it was taking forever though, I figured he had lost his appeal.

I don't understand how NOBODY, not James, not his team, not his family, not his friends, etc. ever thought, "Hey you're taking medication and you're a professional athlete. Let's make sure we have the proper paperwork." Either that, or ANY of them knowing the rules in the first place. When you're a professional athlete, it's common knowledge to make sure that any medication you're taking is legal and that you have the documentation for it.
jamma10 wrote:
Precisely!
sssssh.....
newmann
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4/29/2015 8:13am
Not the first time that a Vital poster has delivered.

FreshTopEnd
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4/29/2015 8:29am
jamma10 wrote:
...because it's impractical. It's more efficient and cost effective to simply warn all participants that they could be subject to a random test at anytime, which...
...because it's impractical.

It's more efficient and cost effective to simply warn all participants that they could be subject to a random test at anytime, which is what currently happens in most professional sports.
It's less costly, but how can it be more efficient if the design allows sophisticated cheats to still game the system. Testing is a kabuki dance, a charade at the highest level. WADA has admitted as much by bolstering it's investigatory side so it doesn't rely on a testing program that sticks it's toe in the water now and then and allows determined athletes to work around it.

It's enormously costly to put an effective testing program into place. If the notion is simply that we're going to pile a ton of money unrelated to sport into an scientific/medical industry, now motivated to sustain itself like any bureaucracy, because the deterrent of "might be caught randomly" may cause intentional cheats to think twice, count me out. Especially for a one size fits all regime that treats someone who competes a couple times a year in major events the same as someone who competes in 27 title points paying rounds. The biggest problem with the WDC, which WADA recognizes but hasn't really done anything about but make the penalties even harsher, is the lack of proportionality of its penalties among sports that unfold at different rhythms. That's effectively what has everyone upset. Stew has only himself to blame, but it's fair to ask now that people see how it works whether this program fits this sport.

The cost at issue is not the sort of myopic one-rider per-rider tally thing; that gives you a picture of the individual consequences, but whether in a sport this small it makes to add this layer of compliance on to all the guys who show up to try to qualify for a SX or outdoors race. IMO, PED's are not the biggest threat to this sport, and not it's biggest problem, and this "solution" not one that makes it any easier to solve those problems. There is going to be a lot of money going out of this sport for compliance that will never come back to it, and it's worth asking whether the sport would be better off, if those resources in promoter and rider time and money are better devoted elsewhere.

Or at least whether there is a better way to go about PED regulation tailored to this sport.
Crush
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4/29/2015 8:32am
It's less costly, but how can it be more efficient if the design allows sophisticated cheats to still game the system. Testing is a kabuki dance...
It's less costly, but how can it be more efficient if the design allows sophisticated cheats to still game the system. Testing is a kabuki dance, a charade at the highest level. WADA has admitted as much by bolstering it's investigatory side so it doesn't rely on a testing program that sticks it's toe in the water now and then and allows determined athletes to work around it.

It's enormously costly to put an effective testing program into place. If the notion is simply that we're going to pile a ton of money unrelated to sport into an scientific/medical industry, now motivated to sustain itself like any bureaucracy, because the deterrent of "might be caught randomly" may cause intentional cheats to think twice, count me out. Especially for a one size fits all regime that treats someone who competes a couple times a year in major events the same as someone who competes in 27 title points paying rounds. The biggest problem with the WDC, which WADA recognizes but hasn't really done anything about but make the penalties even harsher, is the lack of proportionality of its penalties among sports that unfold at different rhythms. That's effectively what has everyone upset. Stew has only himself to blame, but it's fair to ask now that people see how it works whether this program fits this sport.

The cost at issue is not the sort of myopic one-rider per-rider tally thing; that gives you a picture of the individual consequences, but whether in a sport this small it makes to add this layer of compliance on to all the guys who show up to try to qualify for a SX or outdoors race. IMO, PED's are not the biggest threat to this sport, and not it's biggest problem, and this "solution" not one that makes it any easier to solve those problems. There is going to be a lot of money going out of this sport for compliance that will never come back to it, and it's worth asking whether the sport would be better off, if those resources in promoter and rider time and money are better devoted elsewhere.

Or at least whether there is a better way to go about PED regulation tailored to this sport.
From what you read, the testing for the nasty stuff is so far behind, the only defense the authorities have is fear and saved samples with a threat of future repercussions...

I'm all for anything which perturbs the kids to drugs as a means to perform.

Which, coincidentally, is also why I have a hard time believing Davi had something which are proven to be kidney bashers in his use... doesn't he only have one kidney?
FreshTopEnd
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4/29/2015 8:36am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2015 8:46am
TDeath21 wrote:
At first, I expected James to be at Hangtown. When it was taking forever though, I figured he had lost his appeal. I don't understand how...
At first, I expected James to be at Hangtown. When it was taking forever though, I figured he had lost his appeal.

I don't understand how NOBODY, not James, not his team, not his family, not his friends, etc. ever thought, "Hey you're taking medication and you're a professional athlete. Let's make sure we have the proper paperwork." Either that, or ANY of them knowing the rules in the first place. When you're a professional athlete, it's common knowledge to make sure that any medication you're taking is legal and that you have the documentation for it.
jamma10 wrote:
Precisely!
Crush wrote:
sssssh.....
Seriously, go through the CAS cases and you will find examples of high level athlete dopiness far beyond this.

It shouldn't be surprising that the athletes bumble this when you think about the real world experiences and skills many of them have after their youth has been focused on a narrow little beam of performance.

The real issue here is that too often that sheltering includes a group for support whose selection turns on loyalty rather than competence.

But keep in mind that we never hear of anyone having their TUE, so in this case, where compliance is really pretty straightforward if an athlete needs a truly therapeutic drug (validated in Stew's case), the catches you see are the dummy exceptions, probably not the rule.
FreshTopEnd
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4/29/2015 8:44am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2015 8:44am
Crush wrote:
From what you read, the testing for the nasty stuff is so far behind, the only defense the authorities have is fear and saved samples with...
From what you read, the testing for the nasty stuff is so far behind, the only defense the authorities have is fear and saved samples with a threat of future repercussions...

I'm all for anything which perturbs the kids to drugs as a means to perform.

Which, coincidentally, is also why I have a hard time believing Davi had something which are proven to be kidney bashers in his use... doesn't he only have one kidney?
I think we vastly overestimate the weight of deterrence on young males whose frontal lobes are not fully developed (if not already bashed mush by hitting the melon on the ground a few times). But if we want a "you might get caught system," and that's the best we can expect, maybe we can do better. But I question whether a system that works merely because the people subject to it cannot understand how weak it is worth playing along with given its cost.

Davi did lose a kidney. I don't know facts about his situation currently (haven't been trying to sift it out of the BS here), but it wouldn't surprise me to have an athlete in the sport be given something by someone that is not integrated into the rider's conventional medical treatment that would hurt the athlete. There are a thousand unconventional treaters out there telling people what's good for them and directing care with more or less knowledge about the riders overall health situation and care.

GuyB
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4/29/2015 8:48am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2015 10:01am
ktmwoods wrote:
Are all of you haters satisfied now. "Source or STFU"?? Really.
Don't scrunch your eyes up at me like that. Smile

(Here's why you shouldn't try and post while driving in to work...about half the message I *thought* I was posting was gone.)

The other half was...

Do I know you? Do you have a history of posting credible info on stuff like? If so, I hadn't seen it.

I often have a healthy dose of skepticism. That's what you saw. The team was being tight-lipped until this morning.
Crush
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4/29/2015 8:50am
Yeah and maybe that's part of my issue with any of these matters FTE... Just like I'm aware drugs are hard work for your kidneys and therefore it seems obvious to me i'd avoid them if I only had one, I also have a hard time believing a pro-athlete just takes shit without questioning if they should look into it. That assumes they've never heard of drugs in sport, any infamous drugs in sport cases before them, or that in a case of absolute true ignorance, that they've still acted knowing it helps their own perceived performance...
jeffro503
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4/29/2015 8:53am
Rick M. wrote:
Why is everyone freaking out over this lame (troll) post??!! PEOPLE, take a step back, and stop bashing FIM, an Feld for pete sakes. James Stewart...
Why is everyone freaking out over this lame (troll) post??!! PEOPLE, take a step back, and stop bashing FIM, an Feld for pete sakes. James Stewart will be at Hangtown, I still have faith in humanity, and justice. I also am sticking with my source that told me 2 months ago that he will be back. Go stew!
ML512 wrote:
Hmmm....
Haha. Don't ever trust those parts counter guys. Laughing
PTshox
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4/29/2015 9:25am
Like I said... PUNT the FIM and let US based folks oversee the US races. Keep it simple.
ML512
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4/29/2015 9:26am
PTshox wrote:
Like I said... PUNT the FIM and let US based folks oversee the US races. Keep it simple.
US side is dealing with USADA, so the ban would still be upheld.
jamma10
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4/29/2015 9:44am Edited Date/Time 4/29/2015 9:48am
It's less costly, but how can it be more efficient if the design allows sophisticated cheats to still game the system. Testing is a kabuki dance...
It's less costly, but how can it be more efficient if the design allows sophisticated cheats to still game the system. Testing is a kabuki dance, a charade at the highest level. WADA has admitted as much by bolstering it's investigatory side so it doesn't rely on a testing program that sticks it's toe in the water now and then and allows determined athletes to work around it.

It's enormously costly to put an effective testing program into place. If the notion is simply that we're going to pile a ton of money unrelated to sport into an scientific/medical industry, now motivated to sustain itself like any bureaucracy, because the deterrent of "might be caught randomly" may cause intentional cheats to think twice, count me out. Especially for a one size fits all regime that treats someone who competes a couple times a year in major events the same as someone who competes in 27 title points paying rounds. The biggest problem with the WDC, which WADA recognizes but hasn't really done anything about but make the penalties even harsher, is the lack of proportionality of its penalties among sports that unfold at different rhythms. That's effectively what has everyone upset. Stew has only himself to blame, but it's fair to ask now that people see how it works whether this program fits this sport.

The cost at issue is not the sort of myopic one-rider per-rider tally thing; that gives you a picture of the individual consequences, but whether in a sport this small it makes to add this layer of compliance on to all the guys who show up to try to qualify for a SX or outdoors race. IMO, PED's are not the biggest threat to this sport, and not it's biggest problem, and this "solution" not one that makes it any easier to solve those problems. There is going to be a lot of money going out of this sport for compliance that will never come back to it, and it's worth asking whether the sport would be better off, if those resources in promoter and rider time and money are better devoted elsewhere.

Or at least whether there is a better way to go about PED regulation tailored to this sport.
I agree with most of that, especially the proportionality aspect.

When I say more efficient, I mean that baring in mind it takes anywhere between 20 minutes and 2 hours to test one athlete random testing is more efficient (and less costly...) than having WADA officials show up to test between 60 - 80 riders at the start of each series, then a further 20 riders at the first round, as well as random tests throughout the rest of the season. You said yourself it's enormously costly to put an effective testing program into place.

Letting athletes compete in the knowledge that WADA or USADA or whoever could turn unnanounced at any time seems one of the most logical and less costly ways of deterring athletes from cheating.
OW38B
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4/29/2015 10:06am
Jeez....what a "cluster f*ck" the FIM, Feld, AMA and MXSports have turn this sport into.


Ditch the FIM and AMA, have Feld run Supercross like a circus which they have some experience doing.

Ditch the AMA and MXSports and have the Outdoor Nationals go back to the National Promoters Group.

Pro MX/SX drug testing has been a fiasco in it's current incarnation.

Stop the insanity!
4/29/2015 11:12am
GuyB wrote:
Don't scrunch your eyes up at me like that. :) (Here's why you shouldn't try and post while driving in to work...about half the message I...
Don't scrunch your eyes up at me like that. Smile

(Here's why you shouldn't try and post while driving in to work...about half the message I *thought* I was posting was gone.)

The other half was...

Do I know you? Do you have a history of posting credible info on stuff like? If so, I hadn't seen it.

I often have a healthy dose of skepticism. That's what you saw. The team was being tight-lipped until this morning.
Well I guess you can add some points to the credibility tally for some of the users here.
GuyB
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4/29/2015 11:15am
TripleFive wrote:
Well I guess you can add some points to the credibility tally for some of the users here.
Who knew? I thought you just liked playing devil's advocate 24/7. Wink
DW324
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4/29/2015 11:34am
I posted this a week ago but am still curious to hear if this has been brought up anywhere yet?

My post from 4/21/15 is below.....

I have been trying to keep up with some of this the best that I can and one thing keeps popping into my head that I don't think has been talked about by anyone. With me being in the health insurance industry, I can honestly say that someone is in violation of JS7's HIPPA rights. Has that been brought up anywhere? For those of you not knowing what the HIPPA Law is, google "HIPPA Law Violation" and take a peak. This is a pretty serious thing if someone leaked personal medical information that carries some pretty hefty fines and/or prison time. That, in my eyes has way more weight in a lawsuit then not telling him whether or not his appeal was approved or denied on a certain date. Maybe that is why JS7 is staying silent through all of this.
DownSouth
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4/29/2015 11:57am
DW324 wrote:
I posted this a week ago but am still curious to hear if this has been brought up anywhere yet? My post from 4/21/15 is below...
I posted this a week ago but am still curious to hear if this has been brought up anywhere yet?

My post from 4/21/15 is below.....

I have been trying to keep up with some of this the best that I can and one thing keeps popping into my head that I don't think has been talked about by anyone. With me being in the health insurance industry, I can honestly say that someone is in violation of JS7's HIPPA rights. Has that been brought up anywhere? For those of you not knowing what the HIPPA Law is, google "HIPPA Law Violation" and take a peak. This is a pretty serious thing if someone leaked personal medical information that carries some pretty hefty fines and/or prison time. That, in my eyes has way more weight in a lawsuit then not telling him whether or not his appeal was approved or denied on a certain date. Maybe that is why JS7 is staying silent through all of this.
Who leaked any personal medical information?

All the FIM/WADA press release said was that Stewarts sample tested positive for amphetamines.

The Adderall/ADD explanation came form Stewarts camp.
ktmwoods
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4/29/2015 12:01pm
ktmwoods wrote:
Are all of you haters satisfied now. "Source or STFU"?? Really.
GuyB wrote:
Don't scrunch your eyes up at me like that. :) (Here's why you shouldn't try and post while driving in to work...about half the message I...
Don't scrunch your eyes up at me like that. Smile

(Here's why you shouldn't try and post while driving in to work...about half the message I *thought* I was posting was gone.)

The other half was...

Do I know you? Do you have a history of posting credible info on stuff like? If so, I hadn't seen it.

I often have a healthy dose of skepticism. That's what you saw. The team was being tight-lipped until this morning.
Yeah sorry Guy, that was a bit too much on my side. I JUST t had qualified my thread topic post in advance, knowing the inclination for the hate hop in here, wasn't stirring shit up - and then there was the typical Vital gang-bang that questioned my post validity. Which has been proven, so I promise not to come all up on here spraying BS in the future, cool? If I make a claim I will stand by it and hand anyone $1000 in cash at the start line of the next pro race if I am somehow proven wrong, cool? And yes, this isn't my normal Vital profile, had I posted under that my source would have been compromised. This is a FORUM and not a news outlet, until you post it under news, just so we are clear from my side on role clarity.
4/29/2015 12:04pm
ktmwoods wrote:
Yeah sorry Guy, that was a bit too much on my side. I JUST t had qualified my thread topic post in advance, knowing the inclination...
Yeah sorry Guy, that was a bit too much on my side. I JUST t had qualified my thread topic post in advance, knowing the inclination for the hate hop in here, wasn't stirring shit up - and then there was the typical Vital gang-bang that questioned my post validity. Which has been proven, so I promise not to come all up on here spraying BS in the future, cool? If I make a claim I will stand by it and hand anyone $1000 in cash at the start line of the next pro race if I am somehow proven wrong, cool? And yes, this isn't my normal Vital profile, had I posted under that my source would have been compromised. This is a FORUM and not a news outlet, until you post it under news, just so we are clear from my side on role clarity.
So does the $1000 guarantee apply to this screen name only, or all of yours? Because I'm definitely interested. Cool
ktmwoods
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4/29/2015 12:10pm
ktmwoods wrote:
Yeah sorry Guy, that was a bit too much on my side. I JUST t had qualified my thread topic post in advance, knowing the inclination...
Yeah sorry Guy, that was a bit too much on my side. I JUST t had qualified my thread topic post in advance, knowing the inclination for the hate hop in here, wasn't stirring shit up - and then there was the typical Vital gang-bang that questioned my post validity. Which has been proven, so I promise not to come all up on here spraying BS in the future, cool? If I make a claim I will stand by it and hand anyone $1000 in cash at the start line of the next pro race if I am somehow proven wrong, cool? And yes, this isn't my normal Vital profile, had I posted under that my source would have been compromised. This is a FORUM and not a news outlet, until you post it under news, just so we are clear from my side on role clarity.
TripleFive wrote:
So does the $1000 guarantee apply to this screen name only, or all of yours? Because I'm definitely interested. Cool
Yeah TripleFive we may actually know each other, and props to you for being the one to validate my post. If I post under this screen name with any claim that you wanna call me on, you are welcome to take me up Wink
GuyB
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4/29/2015 12:50pm
ktmwoods wrote:
Yeah sorry Guy, that was a bit too much on my side. I JUST t had qualified my thread topic post in advance, knowing the inclination...
Yeah sorry Guy, that was a bit too much on my side. I JUST t had qualified my thread topic post in advance, knowing the inclination for the hate hop in here, wasn't stirring shit up - and then there was the typical Vital gang-bang that questioned my post validity. Which has been proven, so I promise not to come all up on here spraying BS in the future, cool? If I make a claim I will stand by it and hand anyone $1000 in cash at the start line of the next pro race if I am somehow proven wrong, cool? And yes, this isn't my normal Vital profile, had I posted under that my source would have been compromised. This is a FORUM and not a news outlet, until you post it under news, just so we are clear from my side on role clarity.
Fair enough. Smile
DW324
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4/29/2015 1:53pm
DW324 wrote:
I posted this a week ago but am still curious to hear if this has been brought up anywhere yet? My post from 4/21/15 is below...
I posted this a week ago but am still curious to hear if this has been brought up anywhere yet?

My post from 4/21/15 is below.....

I have been trying to keep up with some of this the best that I can and one thing keeps popping into my head that I don't think has been talked about by anyone. With me being in the health insurance industry, I can honestly say that someone is in violation of JS7's HIPPA rights. Has that been brought up anywhere? For those of you not knowing what the HIPPA Law is, google "HIPPA Law Violation" and take a peak. This is a pretty serious thing if someone leaked personal medical information that carries some pretty hefty fines and/or prison time. That, in my eyes has way more weight in a lawsuit then not telling him whether or not his appeal was approved or denied on a certain date. Maybe that is why JS7 is staying silent through all of this.
DownSouth wrote:
Who leaked any personal medical information? All the FIM/WADA press release said was that Stewarts sample tested positive for amphetamines. The Adderall/ADD explanation came form Stewarts...
Who leaked any personal medical information?

All the FIM/WADA press release said was that Stewarts sample tested positive for amphetamines.

The Adderall/ADD explanation came form Stewarts camp.
Didn't he say in the pulp interview that other people knew that he had tested positive for adderal before he was even told? That's why I asked the question. How would they know what he tested positive for? Maybe since someone let the cat out of the bag from a p.r. standpoint maybe they felt it was best to come out a admit it was adderal so there was no speculation and it would squash all the rumors that were flying around here? Don't really care either way I was just curious
4/29/2015 2:09pm
This is garbage. All I will say on this subject. I want to see racing. I want Stewart out there. Just give Dungey the title already. Make a first time example. Not wreck the fastest and most entertaining racer's career. I can't help after following his suspension the past few months that spite is involved in the decisions that have been made. Timing is horrible.
The Rock
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4/29/2015 2:36pm Edited Date/Time 4/29/2015 2:41pm
This is garbage. All I will say on this subject. I want to see racing. I want Stewart out there. Just give Dungey the title already...
This is garbage. All I will say on this subject. I want to see racing. I want Stewart out there. Just give Dungey the title already. Make a first time example. Not wreck the fastest and most entertaining racer's career. I can't help after following his suspension the past few months that spite is involved in the decisions that have been made. Timing is horrible.
I feel you brother. It would have been palatable to the public if by some stroke of fate James would have been allowed to race the Nationals but we don't influence WADA obviously.

I choose to look at the glass half full: James is doing a reboot with getting a break from the travel grind. No way to know for sure but perhaps we will get these 8 months back at the end of his career when he races longer because of the time off?




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