Why all this "Take 450s out" talk?

Samuel
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Samuel 3/27/2015 9:51am
3/27/2015 9:51am
I don't think the power of the bikes is a factor, except possibly 85 to 250f. People on 450's are usually experienced and big enough to handle one. Or sometimes they're beginners, but (usually) older and smarter. The danger factor comes from people not knowing their limits, not being able to properly read terrain (like a kick at the top of a lip), and the element of having other racers around. Obviously occasional freak accidents can happen as well.

Take the example of a double on the track; A guy by himself decides to roll it, a very safe option. Another guy by himself decides to double, also safe. Put the two on the track together on the same jump and all of the sudden it's no longer safe for either of them, if the guy doubling isn't paying attention or prepared to slow down/change lines.


Scrubadub
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Scrubadub 3/27/2015 10:03am
3/27/2015 10:03am
450s are not the problem. If the powers that be want to kill off the Privateers in pro mx and sx then sure go ahead and make the 250's the premier class.
919x
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919x 3/27/2015 10:20am
3/27/2015 10:20am
At the amateur level why do you need a 450? That's the problem. If the jumps are big enough that the 450 makes them easier to clear the jump is too big. If you need the horsepower of a 450 to keep up the track is too fast. When is the last time you used first gear on a motocross track?

In the 80’s a 500cc 2 stroke seemed to be more of a disadvantage than a 250 2 stroke. Why? Would that still be true if they were both racing on a current track? The amateur tracks need to be slowed down and the jumps need to be tamed down.
etccb
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etccb 3/27/2015 10:46am
3/27/2015 10:46am
When supercross was 125 and 250 2 stroke nobody was saying to outlaw the 500. We need to replace the missing class and lower the upper class call it whatever you want. Lets just say as an example 185, 350 and open class. A factory offering 4 would have mini, 185 to be similay to the 125 2 stroke class and replace current 250 race class, 350 to be similar to the 250 2 stroke class and to replace current 450 race class, and a 450 or can make them a 500 or whatever for open class. This is just to duplicate the performance of the old 125 250 and 500 2 stroke type classes. I believe there is something to this and that it would be a better way to go in the future. There was a change to the way it is now from before so another change wont kill the sport or make anyone less of a man if they ride a 350 vs a 450. Every race but a pro class supercross or pro class outdoor national would have plenty of classes for everyone and whatever they choose to ride.

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hillbilly
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hillbilly 3/27/2015 10:46am
3/27/2015 10:46am
One thing I've never understood is a promoter leaving in a section or jump that regular claimed riders.

One track had a jump that the ambulance just parked at. Blind,100 footer with a peaked hump midway out the table. Most tried hitting it then wadded into the landing of the 100 footer.

It claimed kids mostly so a bunch of parents went to the promoter but no change.

We parked there always so I could hop the fence and drag bikes out of the landing. One day a kid crashes into the landing area, 16 yr old,first race although it was practice day,first time awsy from home without his parents.

As I get up he leaves the bike and steps off the track. Good I'm thinking ,but he comes back.

I look toward the flagger and he isn't looking yet ,just as he gets the flag out anther kid hits the 100ft jump. He hits the 1st kid straight on in the chest.

We get riders slowed and the emt is rigt there because of parking next to it. I walk over to see how bad and the look of fear in the kids eyes I have not forgot. He breathed a few times then eyes went shut and that was it.

They changed the track then,made this big show of naming the new jump after the kid and putting a marble stone there with his name on jt.

Nd I never could figure why leave it alone while riders are crashing,not gonna be back next week or for 6 weeks,family not paying gate fee. All the money being lost in fees. And it took a death to change it.
motomike137
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motomike137 3/27/2015 10:58am
3/27/2015 10:58am
BobbyM wrote:
Kw's career was resurrected because of the 450. Not sure why he is arguing his point now.
Good point Bob. Kevin also broke his leg on a 250 two stroke if I recall correctly.

@919x I like riding a 450 because I am highly experienced, weigh over 200lbs and ride and race primarl;y in the sand here in Michigan on the tracks and trails. On top of that with a good maintenance routine I can own the same bike for years never have to crack open the motor especially on the YZ's I've owned.

IMHO the biggest impact that could be made especially at the amatuer level is track design. I'm going to catch a lot of crap for this but please explain to me why there needs to be a gap between two or three or even four mounds of dirt that can be cleared in one leap? Why should I go to my local track and be beaten by someone simply because I refuse to leap an uphill that will put me in the hospital if I get it wrong? Where is the skill in that? I see so may things that could be more well thought out on amatuer tracks.

This subject is a really diifficult one partly because MX is so unregulated and for the most part we all like it that way. The bottom line is that ours is a (motor)sport unlike any other, we are not strapped in to a cage that can protect us, we ride/race at much greater speed than any stick and ball sport and we fly through the air in close quarters on top of it.

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jtiger12 3/27/2015 11:03am
3/27/2015 11:03am
philG wrote:
Thats because Barcia cant ride a 450 ... Whatever bike you ride , there will always be parts of the track that will catch people out...
Thats because Barcia cant ride a 450 ...

Whatever bike you ride , there will always be parts of the track that will catch people out because that is what SX is all about , precision and control.. the days of guys racing out of control , like Cooper etc , are long gone , because the tracks are now about technical flying , not technical riding.

So putting everyone on a 250 wont make any difference, apart from killing off anyone who weighs more than 80kg, or is taller than 5'10... it certainly wont be cheaper , 5hr motors wont come cheap.

Make the tracks slower , more turns , more bumps , more technical and less rhythm .

racing will still be racing.
barcia can't ride a 450? Shocked congrats sir, you have just won the internet..
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Rab 3/27/2015 11:04am
3/27/2015 11:04am
fanger wrote:
I like how one minute we all pride ourselves on how physical and dangerous our sport is, then the next minute complain it's too dangerous because...
I like how one minute we all pride ourselves on how physical and dangerous our sport is, then the next minute complain it's too dangerous because a few pros crashed one round of sx.
The problem is that they get simple tracks they can ride over their heads on, they threw in a technical track and the riders drop like flies from not respecting the track. It's got nothing to do with too much power.
you sound stupid.. and btw, this whole topic came alive after all the recent amateur fatalities
motomike137
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motomike137 3/27/2015 11:09am
3/27/2015 11:09am
philG wrote:
Thats because Barcia cant ride a 450 ... Whatever bike you ride , there will always be parts of the track that will catch people out...
Thats because Barcia cant ride a 450 ...

Whatever bike you ride , there will always be parts of the track that will catch people out because that is what SX is all about , precision and control.. the days of guys racing out of control , like Cooper etc , are long gone , because the tracks are now about technical flying , not technical riding.

So putting everyone on a 250 wont make any difference, apart from killing off anyone who weighs more than 80kg, or is taller than 5'10... it certainly wont be cheaper , 5hr motors wont come cheap.

Make the tracks slower , more turns , more bumps , more technical and less rhythm .

racing will still be racing.
jtiger12 wrote:
barcia can't ride a 450? Shocked congrats sir, you have just won the internet..
He needs to watch RV more closely, dude never pins the throttle.

Skippie
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Skippie 3/27/2015 11:22am
3/27/2015 11:22am
fanger wrote:
I like how one minute we all pride ourselves on how physical and dangerous our sport is, then the next minute complain it's too dangerous because...
I like how one minute we all pride ourselves on how physical and dangerous our sport is, then the next minute complain it's too dangerous because a few pros crashed one round of sx.
The problem is that they get simple tracks they can ride over their heads on, they threw in a technical track and the riders drop like flies from not respecting the track. It's got nothing to do with too much power.
Rab wrote:
you sound stupid.. and btw, this whole topic came alive after all the recent amateur fatalities
None of which happened on a 450. It was actually a 250 that Tyler was riding believe it or not. And to all those saying a 450 is unnecessary, try being 6'4 and 200lb+ and tell me a 250 is plenty.
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norcal3737 3/27/2015 11:33am
3/27/2015 11:33am
gt80rider wrote:
It looks like Barcia is having a hard time controlling his JGR 450, what makes you think some local Schmoe can handle a stock 450?
JM485 wrote:
The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should...
The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should be able to handle it as well, not to mention thousands and thousands of others do the same each weekend. Shoot, where I ride most the 500 is the bike of choice for a lot of guys, but that's mostly trails with a lot of hillclimbing.

This is honestly getting ridiculous with people spouting off the amateurs can't handle 450s, the power of the bike is not the issue, it's people riding over their heads. When I ride I stay within my comfort zone because I value my health, not to say that I'm going slow and not jumping anything, but I like to ride smooth and controlled. I think the accidents we see and just that, accidents, and unfortunately that's part of all sports. I will admit racing was definately better on two strokes and I would love to see those come back into pro racing, but I don't think the bikes are to blame for recent events. Just my opinion on the topic.
"JM485 wrote: The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should be able to handle it as well...."


Yea, because I'm sure you use your 450 to even 50% of its potential. smh.
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hvaughn88 3/27/2015 11:36am
3/27/2015 11:36am
fanger wrote:
I like how one minute we all pride ourselves on how physical and dangerous our sport is, then the next minute complain it's too dangerous because...
I like how one minute we all pride ourselves on how physical and dangerous our sport is, then the next minute complain it's too dangerous because a few pros crashed one round of sx.
The problem is that they get simple tracks they can ride over their heads on, they threw in a technical track and the riders drop like flies from not respecting the track. It's got nothing to do with too much power.
Rab wrote:
you sound stupid.. and btw, this whole topic came alive after all the recent amateur fatalities
Skippie wrote:
None of which happened on a 450. It was actually a 250 that Tyler was riding believe it or not. And to all those saying a...
None of which happened on a 450. It was actually a 250 that Tyler was riding believe it or not. And to all those saying a 450 is unnecessary, try being 6'4 and 200lb+ and tell me a 250 is plenty.
I don't see a ton of 6'4" 200lb+ amateurs
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Skippie 3/27/2015 11:42am
3/27/2015 11:42am
gt80rider wrote:
It looks like Barcia is having a hard time controlling his JGR 450, what makes you think some local Schmoe can handle a stock 450?
JM485 wrote:
The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should...
The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should be able to handle it as well, not to mention thousands and thousands of others do the same each weekend. Shoot, where I ride most the 500 is the bike of choice for a lot of guys, but that's mostly trails with a lot of hillclimbing.

This is honestly getting ridiculous with people spouting off the amateurs can't handle 450s, the power of the bike is not the issue, it's people riding over their heads. When I ride I stay within my comfort zone because I value my health, not to say that I'm going slow and not jumping anything, but I like to ride smooth and controlled. I think the accidents we see and just that, accidents, and unfortunately that's part of all sports. I will admit racing was definately better on two strokes and I would love to see those come back into pro racing, but I don't think the bikes are to blame for recent events. Just my opinion on the topic.
norcal3737 wrote:
"JM485 wrote: The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like...
"JM485 wrote: The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should be able to handle it as well...."


Yea, because I'm sure you use your 450 to even 50% of its potential. smh.
First off, how do you know what type of rider he is? It's really not that hard to use all of a 450 especially if you're a bigger guy. I've been riding a 450 for the past few years and never once thought it was hard to manage and that I wanted less power. I actually tried out my buddies KTM 500 and am thinking about making that my next bike. And secondly, that kind of proves the point. If someone isn't using all of a 450s potential how does that make them any more dangerous? Being able to cruise on a 450 is way safer then wringing out a 250. I still have yet to see any crash or injury recently that was caused by the power of a 450.
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50dippin 3/27/2015 11:56am
3/27/2015 11:56am Edited Date/Time 3/27/2015 11:57am
gt80rider wrote:
It looks like Barcia is having a hard time controlling his JGR 450, what makes you think some local Schmoe can handle a stock 450?
JM485 wrote:
The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should...
The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should be able to handle it as well, not to mention thousands and thousands of others do the same each weekend. Shoot, where I ride most the 500 is the bike of choice for a lot of guys, but that's mostly trails with a lot of hillclimbing.

This is honestly getting ridiculous with people spouting off the amateurs can't handle 450s, the power of the bike is not the issue, it's people riding over their heads. When I ride I stay within my comfort zone because I value my health, not to say that I'm going slow and not jumping anything, but I like to ride smooth and controlled. I think the accidents we see and just that, accidents, and unfortunately that's part of all sports. I will admit racing was definately better on two strokes and I would love to see those come back into pro racing, but I don't think the bikes are to blame for recent events. Just my opinion on the topic.
norcal3737 wrote:
"JM485 wrote: The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like...
"JM485 wrote: The fact that I ride one all the time and don't feel like it has too much power for me makes it seem like others should be able to handle it as well...."


Yea, because I'm sure you use your 450 to even 50% of its potential. smh.
I don't understand this argument...

I use my 450 to its full potential every time I'm at full throttle. This could be on a start, going up a hill, out in the desert etc. I am not a professional racer but I used my 450 to its full potential the first time I cruised down the street on it...

I would say its safer to be hitting jumps third gear mid throttle with plenty of time to square up the lip on a 450 then pinned on a 125 shifting up the face of a jump.
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KennyT 3/27/2015 11:57am
3/27/2015 11:57am
MotoMan12345 wrote:
Why is everyone saying take 450s out? I don't think there has been any crashes due to the power of the 450. And the tracks this...
Why is everyone saying take 450s out? I don't think there has been any crashes due to the power of the 450. And the tracks this year havent been to difficult (on a pro level). So I ask why is everyone saying take them out?
I totally agree!

Now excuse me while I go fire up my 90HP turbocharged 3 wheeler and do some bitchen wheelies. And if anyone wants to race you know where to find me
moose man
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moose man 3/27/2015 12:13pm
3/27/2015 12:13pm
Why because a bunch of dumbass people think getting rid of 450s is going to stop injures our death and its not I don't get what part of this. None of u get there dirt bikes with no rollcages and jumps on a track bad things happin u ether accept that our don't ride a dam dirtbike end of story I'm so.over listening to all the bullshit on how we need to change things the pros need to jot ride those tracks and the amatures don't need to ether well news flash we all had no problem with this up until last week.its sucks a kid past but that's a risk u take when u ride a dirt bike so stop this dumdass talk about no more 450 250 4 stories the same thing well happin on a 125 250 2 smoker so I don't get what y'all don't get about it.
PEPE001
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PEPE001 3/27/2015 2:13pm
3/27/2015 2:13pm
MotoMan12345 wrote:
Why is everyone saying take 450s out? I don't think there has been any crashes due to the power of the 450. And the tracks this...
Why is everyone saying take 450s out? I don't think there has been any crashes due to the power of the 450. And the tracks this year havent been to difficult (on a pro level). So I ask why is everyone saying take them out?
there is no need to ban 450's just using the brain from time to time will fix it. Evil
#991
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#991 3/27/2015 2:17pm
3/27/2015 2:17pm Edited Date/Time 3/27/2015 2:21pm
MotoMan12345 wrote:
Why is everyone saying take 450s out? I don't think there has been any crashes due to the power of the 450. And the tracks this...
Why is everyone saying take 450s out? I don't think there has been any crashes due to the power of the 450. And the tracks this year havent been to difficult (on a pro level). So I ask why is everyone saying take them out?
PEPE001 wrote:
there is no need to ban 450's just using the brain from time to time will fix it. Evil
More chance the 2T's will make a come back than that ever happening.


Is there any other motor sport where the machines have gained weight in recent yrs Dry

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cslacker
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cslacker 3/27/2015 2:38pm
3/27/2015 2:38pm
PEPE001 wrote:
there is no need to ban 450's just using the brain from time to time will fix it. Evil
Look at Moose Man's post above yours and I think you will realize how low the probability of that ever happening is...
PEPE001
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PEPE001 3/27/2015 3:08pm
3/27/2015 3:08pm
PEPE001 wrote:
there is no need to ban 450's just using the brain from time to time will fix it. Evil
cslacker wrote:
Look at Moose Man's post above yours and I think you will realize how low the probability of that ever happening is...
But this phenomena is not new saw it the last 30 years riding.
I was off riding for some years and guess what the feature "no brain" was still on the price list as it seems.
#991
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#991 3/27/2015 3:18pm
3/27/2015 3:18pm
PEPE001 wrote:
there is no need to ban 450's just using the brain from time to time will fix it. Evil
cslacker wrote:
Look at Moose Man's post above yours and I think you will realize how low the probability of that ever happening is...
PEPE001 wrote:
But this phenomena is not new saw it the last 30 years riding. I was off riding for some years and guess what the feature "no...
But this phenomena is not new saw it the last 30 years riding.
I was off riding for some years and guess what the feature "no brain" was still on the price list as it seems.
You-Tube wasn't an Incentive when we were young. And Evel Kinevel kept us all grounded and our ambitions in check Tongue .

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