1973 to 2015

yruu
Posts
7
Joined
3/19/2015
Location
USA
Edited Date/Time 3/23/2015 11:56am
I've been racing and riding since 1973 to present. I love how the sport is growing from Moto to Super and present day bikes are all amazing. That being said I work with youth kids programs and meet literally hundreds of kids and parents a year and have not been able to get any of them to let their kids get involved with dirt bikes. I'm not suggesting racing just ridding trails and maybe some track practices. They all say no ! he or she can watch it and a lot do but they cant participate its to dangerous end of story period. I know it's more dangerous now than it was in 1973 I understand progression I'm not here to debate it with anyone. The sport can keep going faster, jumping higher, and crashing harder. Because of that it's reasonable to say that less and less people will get involved. That means less bikes sold and a smaller sport. The sport is really becoming synonymous with serious injury's and death. Recently an NFL linebacker quit after one season saying the risk to his long term health wasn't worth it. Would it be so terrible to slow things down a bit with the bikes and the tracks. I understand motocross and supercross are not mainstream sports in America and if things get worse than they are right now maybe it never will be or worse.
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markit
Posts
2641
Joined
1/10/2013
Location
Bogalusa, LA, USA
3/20/2015 12:03am
It's not a sport for the weak.
3/20/2015 7:34am
its not even been sport of the week for that matter....
moto0852
Posts
943
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Draper, UT, USA
3/20/2015 7:38am
yruu wrote:
I've been racing and riding since 1973 to present. I love how the sport is growing from Moto to Super and present day bikes are all...
I've been racing and riding since 1973 to present. I love how the sport is growing from Moto to Super and present day bikes are all amazing. That being said I work with youth kids programs and meet literally hundreds of kids and parents a year and have not been able to get any of them to let their kids get involved with dirt bikes. I'm not suggesting racing just ridding trails and maybe some track practices. They all say no ! he or she can watch it and a lot do but they cant participate its to dangerous end of story period. I know it's more dangerous now than it was in 1973 I understand progression I'm not here to debate it with anyone. The sport can keep going faster, jumping higher, and crashing harder. Because of that it's reasonable to say that less and less people will get involved. That means less bikes sold and a smaller sport. The sport is really becoming synonymous with serious injury's and death. Recently an NFL linebacker quit after one season saying the risk to his long term health wasn't worth it. Would it be so terrible to slow things down a bit with the bikes and the tracks. I understand motocross and supercross are not mainstream sports in America and if things get worse than they are right now maybe it never will be or worse.
Speed (and the introduction of 50-65 hp four strokes) plays a big part in injuries I believe. Ping wrote a RacerX article some years ago about how the human body is designed to manage and handle impacts at about the top speed someone can run full out at (20 mph).

If you add protective gear (helmets, boots chest protectors, neck braces etc.) you can extend the "safety zone" up to about 30 mph but once you go faster than than and crash, bad things are going to happen.

I am constantly amazed at the carnage and crashes that take place in Enduro cross and yet they have very few injuries (I assume because of the much slower speeds compared to Supercross/ Motocross.
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
3/20/2015 7:51am
markit wrote:
It's not a sport for the weak.
can you elaborate please?

The Shop

Dtat720
Posts
1588
Joined
2/20/2015
Location
Flowood, MS, USA
3/20/2015 7:56am
What amazes me is seeing how many life changing injuries there are in youth soccer and it continues to grow at a massive rate. When i go to my sports therapist, every time i walk in there are 10-15 kids under 14 rehabbing knees after surgery, ankles, shoulders, from soccer. But the parents dont think twice about letting them continue playing.. Unreal.
hvaughn88
Posts
8361
Joined
6/19/2013
Location
Conway, AR, USA
3/20/2015 7:59am
Dtat720 wrote:
What amazes me is seeing how many life changing injuries there are in youth soccer and it continues to grow at a massive rate. When i...
What amazes me is seeing how many life changing injuries there are in youth soccer and it continues to grow at a massive rate. When i go to my sports therapist, every time i walk in there are 10-15 kids under 14 rehabbing knees after surgery, ankles, shoulders, from soccer. But the parents dont think twice about letting them continue playing.. Unreal.
There's a difference between an injury and catastrophe. I still don't like soccer, haha
KTMShane699
Posts
1307
Joined
12/6/2013
Location
Colchester, CT, USA
3/20/2015 8:12am
I think a big reason we are seeing such an increase in catastrophic injury rates has to do with the way riding has evolved. Broken bones weren't uncommon, but about as bad as it got with a few exceptions. Now we are seeing more and more frequent significant injury and loss of life. Could this have to do with the fact that we're putting people on 60 HP bikes and letting them find ways to scrub on every bump and jump on the track? Every time you scrub and come off of something sideways, you run the absolute risk of highsiding, which is a way worse type of crash then the common lowside. When you high side, you're pretty much tossed off the bike, and not uncommonly on your head.

Not to be anti four stroke, but it also used to be that on a two stroke if you weren't riding it correctly you knew there was no way to clear that huge double or triple. Now even novices are sending huge gaps with less than perfect runs at them. The bikes hook up so good and have so much power that they don't fear the mistake and don't acknowledge that they aren't going to get that jump this lap. The throttle gets twisted, and they're sending it. The bikes allow riders to ride way outside of their ability (to be done with a margin of safety).

I think we're lucky we don't hear about this more than we have already to be quite honest. Between the machines and the technicality of tracks and the pressure to go big...it's a perfect storm for disaster.

Shane
3/20/2015 8:15am
moto0852 wrote:
Speed (and the introduction of 50-65 hp four strokes) plays a big part in injuries I believe. Ping wrote a RacerX article some years ago about...
Speed (and the introduction of 50-65 hp four strokes) plays a big part in injuries I believe. Ping wrote a RacerX article some years ago about how the human body is designed to manage and handle impacts at about the top speed someone can run full out at (20 mph).

If you add protective gear (helmets, boots chest protectors, neck braces etc.) you can extend the "safety zone" up to about 30 mph but once you go faster than than and crash, bad things are going to happen.

I am constantly amazed at the carnage and crashes that take place in Enduro cross and yet they have very few injuries (I assume because of the much slower speeds compared to Supercross/ Motocross.
Your observation re: the fact that Endurocross is safer because of the difficult obstacles is a valid point. They crash a lot but don't get hurt because of the slower speeds. If the goal is to make our sport safer The only way to accomplish this is to slow the riders down. It is obvious to me that cutting the power and displacement is not the answer. Proof of this is, the lap times for the 250s and 450s are almost identical. In fact a fast Mini rider will turn lap times within a couple of seconds of the big bikes........WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, Track design is the problem !

Now, I enjoy speed as much as anyone, but , The brutal truth is, We have a large number of riders who are suffering life changing injuries and this won't change until we slow them down.

DA498
Posts
1646
Joined
10/11/2008
Location
Milliken, CO, USA
3/20/2015 8:26am
I come from the 70s era also and tend to agree, Id like to see more of the tracks like REM style. I know the younger guys like the jumps and I admire their talent. I try my best to conquer them within my ability but I cant make myself push too far.

As far as power goes, its relevant to how far you twist the throttle. Im back on a 450 after a long stint with my 250f. The power available is ridiculous and sometimes I want to go back, but thats usually because my technique is sucking and my conditioning is worse.

The sport has evolved and like a lot of sports its faster and more precise. I think we have to approach it a more controlled manner and bring our young people up through the ranks as responsible as possible. How to do it is the tough thing.

This sport is definitely not for the "weak" and that's what I love about it, Be smart out there people and have fun.....
philG
Posts
11084
Joined
5/12/2012
Location
GB
3/20/2015 10:22am
if you are hucking 4th gear jumps, its never going to end well if you have a problem. Tracks need to be tighter and technical, with smaller well though out obstacles.. the way tracks are going now, i'm surprised there arent more bad injuries than we get.
LappedU
Posts
494
Joined
2/24/2011
Location
Beverly Hills, CA, USA
3/20/2015 10:27am
You can ride any bike faster when you can control the power, not the power controlling you, why do you think the 250's put in the same lap times as the 450's the power Versus controlability is a trade off!
markit
Posts
2641
Joined
1/10/2013
Location
Bogalusa, LA, USA
3/23/2015 5:44am
moto0852 wrote:
Speed (and the introduction of 50-65 hp four strokes) plays a big part in injuries I believe. Ping wrote a RacerX article some years ago about...
Speed (and the introduction of 50-65 hp four strokes) plays a big part in injuries I believe. Ping wrote a RacerX article some years ago about how the human body is designed to manage and handle impacts at about the top speed someone can run full out at (20 mph).

If you add protective gear (helmets, boots chest protectors, neck braces etc.) you can extend the "safety zone" up to about 30 mph but once you go faster than than and crash, bad things are going to happen.

I am constantly amazed at the carnage and crashes that take place in Enduro cross and yet they have very few injuries (I assume because of the much slower speeds compared to Supercross/ Motocross.
Your observation re: the fact that Endurocross is safer because of the difficult obstacles is a valid point. They crash a lot but don't get hurt...
Your observation re: the fact that Endurocross is safer because of the difficult obstacles is a valid point. They crash a lot but don't get hurt because of the slower speeds. If the goal is to make our sport safer The only way to accomplish this is to slow the riders down. It is obvious to me that cutting the power and displacement is not the answer. Proof of this is, the lap times for the 250s and 450s are almost identical. In fact a fast Mini rider will turn lap times within a couple of seconds of the big bikes........WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, Track design is the problem !

Now, I enjoy speed as much as anyone, but , The brutal truth is, We have a large number of riders who are suffering life changing injuries and this won't change until we slow them down.

IDK look at ODNs and compare injuries/tramas, the speeds in ODNs is much higher than in SX. IDK for sure but it sure seems the ODNs are much safer than SX? Not saying I would change anything, I think the riders should have more of a say than any of us.
3/23/2015 6:47am
moto0852 wrote:
Speed (and the introduction of 50-65 hp four strokes) plays a big part in injuries I believe. Ping wrote a RacerX article some years ago about...
Speed (and the introduction of 50-65 hp four strokes) plays a big part in injuries I believe. Ping wrote a RacerX article some years ago about how the human body is designed to manage and handle impacts at about the top speed someone can run full out at (20 mph).

If you add protective gear (helmets, boots chest protectors, neck braces etc.) you can extend the "safety zone" up to about 30 mph but once you go faster than than and crash, bad things are going to happen.

I am constantly amazed at the carnage and crashes that take place in Enduro cross and yet they have very few injuries (I assume because of the much slower speeds compared to Supercross/ Motocross.
Your observation re: the fact that Endurocross is safer because of the difficult obstacles is a valid point. They crash a lot but don't get hurt...
Your observation re: the fact that Endurocross is safer because of the difficult obstacles is a valid point. They crash a lot but don't get hurt because of the slower speeds. If the goal is to make our sport safer The only way to accomplish this is to slow the riders down. It is obvious to me that cutting the power and displacement is not the answer. Proof of this is, the lap times for the 250s and 450s are almost identical. In fact a fast Mini rider will turn lap times within a couple of seconds of the big bikes........WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, Track design is the problem !

Now, I enjoy speed as much as anyone, but , The brutal truth is, We have a large number of riders who are suffering life changing injuries and this won't change until we slow them down.

markit wrote:
IDK look at ODNs and compare injuries/tramas, the speeds in ODNs is much higher than in SX. IDK for sure but it sure seems the ODNs...
IDK look at ODNs and compare injuries/tramas, the speeds in ODNs is much higher than in SX. IDK for sure but it sure seems the ODNs are much safer than SX? Not saying I would change anything, I think the riders should have more of a say than any of us.
I may be dumb as a post.......What is ODN........IDK ? Thank you
endurox
Posts
2099
Joined
3/22/2014
Location
Garden City, ID, USA
3/23/2015 7:22am Edited Date/Time 3/23/2015 2:43pm
get rid of the banked turns, throw in some off camber turns and more sand, that will favor technical riders and the older racers
hillbilly
Posts
9079
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Afton, TN, USA
3/23/2015 7:54am
If the sport was big as soccer it would be banned or suffering some many lawsuits it would shut down .

Can you imagine the pile of injuries if as many kiďs raced as do soccer?
3/23/2015 11:13am
Your observation re: the fact that Endurocross is safer because of the difficult obstacles is a valid point. They crash a lot but don't get hurt...
Your observation re: the fact that Endurocross is safer because of the difficult obstacles is a valid point. They crash a lot but don't get hurt because of the slower speeds. If the goal is to make our sport safer The only way to accomplish this is to slow the riders down. It is obvious to me that cutting the power and displacement is not the answer. Proof of this is, the lap times for the 250s and 450s are almost identical. In fact a fast Mini rider will turn lap times within a couple of seconds of the big bikes........WHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, Track design is the problem !

Now, I enjoy speed as much as anyone, but , The brutal truth is, We have a large number of riders who are suffering life changing injuries and this won't change until we slow them down.

markit wrote:
IDK look at ODNs and compare injuries/tramas, the speeds in ODNs is much higher than in SX. IDK for sure but it sure seems the ODNs...
IDK look at ODNs and compare injuries/tramas, the speeds in ODNs is much higher than in SX. IDK for sure but it sure seems the ODNs are much safer than SX? Not saying I would change anything, I think the riders should have more of a say than any of us.
I may be dumb as a post.......What is ODN........IDK ? Thank you
Outdoor Nationals (I've never seen the acronym ODN used before).
I Don't Know (common use today- JMO Just My Opinion or BTW By The Way).
Markee
Posts
3665
Joined
4/15/2013
Location
Suffolk, VA, USA
3/23/2015 11:51am
I think a big reason we are seeing such an increase in catastrophic injury rates has to do with the way riding has evolved. Broken bones...
I think a big reason we are seeing such an increase in catastrophic injury rates has to do with the way riding has evolved. Broken bones weren't uncommon, but about as bad as it got with a few exceptions. Now we are seeing more and more frequent significant injury and loss of life. Could this have to do with the fact that we're putting people on 60 HP bikes and letting them find ways to scrub on every bump and jump on the track? Every time you scrub and come off of something sideways, you run the absolute risk of highsiding, which is a way worse type of crash then the common lowside. When you high side, you're pretty much tossed off the bike, and not uncommonly on your head.

Not to be anti four stroke, but it also used to be that on a two stroke if you weren't riding it correctly you knew there was no way to clear that huge double or triple. Now even novices are sending huge gaps with less than perfect runs at them. The bikes hook up so good and have so much power that they don't fear the mistake and don't acknowledge that they aren't going to get that jump this lap. The throttle gets twisted, and they're sending it. The bikes allow riders to ride way outside of their ability (to be done with a margin of safety).

I think we're lucky we don't hear about this more than we have already to be quite honest. Between the machines and the technicality of tracks and the pressure to go big...it's a perfect storm for disaster.

Shane
You add racing situations and spilt second decisions to do something you have never done to make a pass while tired with arm pump. I've seen it every amateur race i've ever been to, carnage.

Those mental "out burst" is why I don't race at the moment, If I don't trust you I don't ride near your ass. I can't wait to take a gate drop, hope its better with my 35+ moto bros, than it was on 80s, C and B class days...
Spartacus
Posts
2269
Joined
5/20/2011
Location
USA
3/23/2015 11:56am
markit wrote:
It's not a sport for the weak.
Clearly it's become a sport for the stupid though.
KennyT
Posts
4399
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Vista, CA, USA
Fantasy
3/23/2015 11:56am
Dtat720 wrote:
What amazes me is seeing how many life changing injuries there are in youth soccer and it continues to grow at a massive rate. When i...
What amazes me is seeing how many life changing injuries there are in youth soccer and it continues to grow at a massive rate. When i go to my sports therapist, every time i walk in there are 10-15 kids under 14 rehabbing knees after surgery, ankles, shoulders, from soccer. But the parents dont think twice about letting them continue playing.. Unreal.
Big difference between rehabbing a child's knee and making funeral arrangements

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