Windham on hoeft

WhipMeister
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3/21/2015 10:46am
I've said it before. I'll say it again. There are a great, great many things that could be improved to make this sport safer without killing the rush or entertainment factors. All but the most OCD would never even notice the difference. Everyone's heard of 'risk-reward'. There's also 'risk-damage' measure of the consequences of when something goes wrong. It's not that the get offs are any more frequent. It's that the relative harm done is going off the charts.

If it's not fixed internally, someone will step in externally and impose it. I don't think anyone wants that.
hvaughn88
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Conway, AR, USA
3/21/2015 10:49am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 10:50am
I've said it before. I'll say it again. There are a great, great many things that could be improved to make this sport safer without killing...
I've said it before. I'll say it again. There are a great, great many things that could be improved to make this sport safer without killing the rush or entertainment factors. All but the most OCD would never even notice the difference. Everyone's heard of 'risk-reward'. There's also 'risk-damage' measure of the consequences of when something goes wrong. It's not that the get offs are any more frequent. It's that the relative harm done is going off the charts.

If it's not fixed internally, someone will step in externally and impose it. I don't think anyone wants that.
I absolutely agree. To be honest, I'm surprised ESPN hasn't done an E:60 on these training facilities and amateur moto yet.
#991
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3/21/2015 10:50am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 11:11am
Motofinne wrote:
I just got my modded sxf 450 2014 and the engine is insane, i repeat INSANE! I don´t know how much better a factory engine is...
I just got my modded sxf 450 2014 and the engine is insane, i repeat INSANE! I don´t know how much better a factory engine is or a fully modded PC engine is but these machines are brutal.
My first Yamaha R1 felt fast for about a week Tongue

300K soon becomes the norm for an F1 driver.

Australia has the fastest Midget Karts in the world (7 to 10 yr olds). My son was taking 90 degree corners at 110ks with his nose cone under the driver in fronts rear crash bar when he was 8. I don't know of any Midget drivers in this country being killed in a racing Incident. The karts are powerful and fast. But. The tracks are safe and they are well supervised.

Insane IMO, is watching the 65cc riders clear all the same jumps as the 450's. Highly Impressive, but Insane none the less.
WhipMeister
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3/21/2015 10:51am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 10:51am
KennyT wrote:
Not so sure MX can still be referred to as a sport. Children should not die in sporting events and this hobby takes children's lives every...
Not so sure MX can still be referred to as a sport. Children should not die in sporting events and this hobby takes children's lives every year. It is sickening to read about these tragedies several times a year.
zehn wrote:
So does football, cart racing, ski racing, freestyle snowboarding, rock and ice climbing, etc... Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like...
So does football, cart racing, ski racing, freestyle snowboarding, rock and ice climbing, etc...

Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like ours is the only sport in which young people die is ignorant of the reality of the situation.
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that of mx. Certainly not football, whose participation level is at least 1000s of times that of motocross.

The Shop

3/21/2015 11:09am
Really sorry to hear news like that. From my point of view the real problem are tracks. Every year, bigger jumps, doubles, triples, now quads and after off season everyone is a bit faster. On the other hand I'm 23yrs old, I've been through some serious injuries but I still have desire to ride again. Yeah, it was my daddy who brought me to MX and I'm grateful what he did and still do for me. I know the risk, I know what can happen, but now it's just my choice. It's hard to say that, but we all know the risk.
#991
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3/21/2015 11:15am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 11:18am
KennyT wrote:
Not so sure MX can still be referred to as a sport. Children should not die in sporting events and this hobby takes children's lives every...
Not so sure MX can still be referred to as a sport. Children should not die in sporting events and this hobby takes children's lives every year. It is sickening to read about these tragedies several times a year.
zehn wrote:
So does football, cart racing, ski racing, freestyle snowboarding, rock and ice climbing, etc... Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like...
So does football, cart racing, ski racing, freestyle snowboarding, rock and ice climbing, etc...

Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like ours is the only sport in which young people die is ignorant of the reality of the situation.
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that...
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that of mx. Certainly not football, whose participation level is at least 1000s of times that of motocross.
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead.

I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd be surprised how many people in the UK die from falling down stairs and falling in the shower.
Eddie_E
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3/21/2015 11:16am
#991 wrote:
Now bring that limiter on earlier :blink: . The currant rev limiters aren't slowing them down are they? Might be OK if you build the tracks...
Now bring that limiter on earlier Blink . The currant rev limiters aren't slowing them down are they?
Might be OK if you build the tracks accordingly. Not so much if they stay the way they are ATM. It would be deadly

It's always going to come back to the tracks. Jumps. There's no safety gear you can make that will allow them to ride the way they are and beat gravity.
I can drop an egg on concrete and make it bounce. Fuck the angle up slightly and it will splatter. Much like a human's head.
You are right, the current rev-limiters aren't slowing them down. The rev-limiters now are set at close to 14,000 RPM. Look at a dyno chart for any 250F and you'll get it. A steel valved 250F with a 10,500 RPM limiter could go over 120 hrs between rebuilds. But then again who wants a bike that goes 120 hrs when you can buy titanium valves every 50 hrs.
Mit12
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3/21/2015 11:17am
They got rid of 500s because they were too powerful. 450s are approaching near that. 125s and 250s or 300s is plenty. The non premier class...
They got rid of 500s because they were too powerful.
450s are approaching near that.

125s and 250s or 300s is plenty.

The non premier class shouldnt be able to do the same obstacles as the premier class. And the lap times shouldnt be comparable.

What we are seeing is 2 things.
450s are too fast and few use them fully thus being slim to zero faster than most on a 250. Either too much power not being used or the track is too small.
Save a few top 3 premier guys.

250s are so fast they are going near the same times as the top 5 450s and are clearing all the same jumps..

They got rid of the 500s because the factories did not want to support the 500s anymore. It was a $ thing that Yamaha started and Suzuki followed shortly after. Not only did the factories save on cost of producing a 500 they did not have to hire a couple of riders to race them or mechanics to support them. Huge savings for the factories.
#991
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3/21/2015 11:23am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 11:29am
#991 wrote:
Now bring that limiter on earlier :blink: . The currant rev limiters aren't slowing them down are they? Might be OK if you build the tracks...
Now bring that limiter on earlier Blink . The currant rev limiters aren't slowing them down are they?
Might be OK if you build the tracks accordingly. Not so much if they stay the way they are ATM. It would be deadly

It's always going to come back to the tracks. Jumps. There's no safety gear you can make that will allow them to ride the way they are and beat gravity.
I can drop an egg on concrete and make it bounce. Fuck the angle up slightly and it will splatter. Much like a human's head.
Eddie_E wrote:
You are right, the current rev-limiters aren't slowing them down. The rev-limiters now are set at close to 14,000 RPM. Look at a dyno chart for...
You are right, the current rev-limiters aren't slowing them down. The rev-limiters now are set at close to 14,000 RPM. Look at a dyno chart for any 250F and you'll get it. A steel valved 250F with a 10,500 RPM limiter could go over 120 hrs between rebuilds. But then again who wants a bike that goes 120 hrs when you can buy titanium valves every 50 hrs.
My point is. If you lower the Rev limiting and leave the tracks as they are ATM, that would be catastrophic IMO.

So even if you lower the rev limiting you're still going to have to change the tracks in most cases. If you're going to do that any way, just leave the limiters and change the tracks.

Rev limiters are dangerous IMO. Power can get you out of trouble just as well as it can get you in trouble. And, normally, You don't ride a 450 at the same RPM as you do a 250

If they get any more air than they already are, they'll need Oxygen tanks and parachutes.
Radical
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3/21/2015 11:25am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 11:26am
Jumps have to be right sized for the bikes. Slow down the bikes, then adjust the tracks accordingly.
How to transition is the question. Bringing back the 125 class is great for the sport. I say lower displacement for the kids classes too. 45cc, 60cc, 80cc. The manufacturers have to like the changes. So do the aftermarket companies. They'll sell a lot of new bikes and conversion kits.
The only question is how to architect the transition period.

We should then reevaluate and make any needed adjustments every 7-10 years.

This totally can be done. I can architect it.
Zracer
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Saint Clair, MI, USA
3/21/2015 11:26am
They got rid of 500s because they were too powerful. 450s are approaching near that. 125s and 250s or 300s is plenty. The non premier class...
They got rid of 500s because they were too powerful.
450s are approaching near that.

125s and 250s or 300s is plenty.

The non premier class shouldnt be able to do the same obstacles as the premier class. And the lap times shouldnt be comparable.

What we are seeing is 2 things.
450s are too fast and few use them fully thus being slim to zero faster than most on a 250. Either too much power not being used or the track is too small.
Save a few top 3 premier guys.

250s are so fast they are going near the same times as the top 5 450s and are clearing all the same jumps..

Mit12 wrote:
They got rid of the 500s because the factories did not want to support the 500s anymore. It was a $ thing that Yamaha started and...
They got rid of the 500s because the factories did not want to support the 500s anymore. It was a $ thing that Yamaha started and Suzuki followed shortly after. Not only did the factories save on cost of producing a 500 they did not have to hire a couple of riders to race them or mechanics to support them. Huge savings for the factories.
Your version of history is entertaining.
WhipMeister
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3/21/2015 11:27am
zehn wrote:
So does football, cart racing, ski racing, freestyle snowboarding, rock and ice climbing, etc... Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like...
So does football, cart racing, ski racing, freestyle snowboarding, rock and ice climbing, etc...

Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like ours is the only sport in which young people die is ignorant of the reality of the situation.
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that...
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that of mx. Certainly not football, whose participation level is at least 1000s of times that of motocross.
#991 wrote:
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead. I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd...
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead.

I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd be surprised how many people in the UK die from falling down stairs and falling in the shower.
I didn't say anything about sucking the passion out of it. I guess you're saying you can't be passionate riding safer tracks/equipment?
#991
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3/21/2015 11:31am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 11:45am
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that...
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that of mx. Certainly not football, whose participation level is at least 1000s of times that of motocross.
#991 wrote:
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead. I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd...
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead.

I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd be surprised how many people in the UK die from falling down stairs and falling in the shower.
I didn't say anything about sucking the passion out of it. I guess you're saying you can't be passionate riding safer tracks/equipment?
No. I'm saying you can die crossing the road. Falling down stairs or falling in the shower. Shit Happens!

Glad my son didn't race bikes but I wouldn't have tried to stop him if he did. I'd obviously try to eliminate as many risk factors as possible but there'd still be risk Involved. Just as there would be if he played football.

Doesn't matter if someone's son dies from blunt force trauma or suicide, the family is still going to be just as devastated either way. They're morning the loss, not the Incident.

"Better to have lived and died than to have died and not lived". No matter what age.

The friends I had that weren't Involved in sport all OD'd on drugs long ago.
Zracer
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3/21/2015 11:35am
#991 wrote:
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead. I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd...
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead.

I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd be surprised how many people in the UK die from falling down stairs and falling in the shower.
I didn't say anything about sucking the passion out of it. I guess you're saying you can't be passionate riding safer tracks/equipment?
#991 wrote:
No. I'm saying you can die crossing the road. Falling down stairs or falling in the shower. Shit Happens! Glad my son didn't race bikes but...
No. I'm saying you can die crossing the road. Falling down stairs or falling in the shower. Shit Happens!

Glad my son didn't race bikes but I wouldn't have tried to stop him if he did. I'd obviously try to eliminate as many risk factors as possible but there'd still be risk Involved. Just as there would be if he played football.

Doesn't matter if someone's son dies from blunt force trauma or suicide, the family is still going to be just as devastated either way. They're morning the loss, not the Incident.

"Better to have lived and died than to have died and not lived". No matter what age.

The friends I had that weren't Involved in sport all OD'd on drugs long ago.
If you have headphones on and close your eyes the risks go up, If you have the power to lessen the risk, wouldnt a reasonable person do so?
Eddie_E
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Framingham, MA, USA
3/21/2015 11:39am
#991 wrote:
My point is. If you lower the Rev limiting and leave the tracks as they are ATM, that would be catastrophic IMO. So even if you...
My point is. If you lower the Rev limiting and leave the tracks as they are ATM, that would be catastrophic IMO.

So even if you lower the rev limiting you're still going to have to change the tracks in most cases. If you're going to do that any way, just leave the limiters and change the tracks.

Rev limiters are dangerous IMO. Power can get you out of trouble just as well as it can get you in trouble. And, normally, You don't ride a 450 at the same RPM as you do a 250

If they get any more air than they already are, they'll need Oxygen tanks and parachutes.
You better not ride the motor in your profile picture. It could be deadly as it is limited to 10,500 rpm by the porting.
KennyT
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Fantasy
3/21/2015 11:39am
zehn wrote:
So does football, cart racing, ski racing, freestyle snowboarding, rock and ice climbing, etc... Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like...
So does football, cart racing, ski racing, freestyle snowboarding, rock and ice climbing, etc...

Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like ours is the only sport in which young people die is ignorant of the reality of the situation.
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that...
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that of mx. Certainly not football, whose participation level is at least 1000s of times that of motocross.
#991 wrote:
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead. I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd...
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead.

I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd be surprised how many people in the UK die from falling down stairs and falling in the shower.
Well that is true about there being many ways to bite it in this life and I don't mean everyone should sit on the couch and wait for the sky to fall on them. But somewhere in the evolution of MX something went terribly wrong. Tracks, bikes, speeds or whatever. I certainly don't have the answer. But someone who has a lot more vested in this sport than this old man does better try and figure something out soon or it will no longer exist.

Mainstream America does not know what MX is and that there are very young kids participating . But when they start finding out that young kids are dying at an alarming rate then someone is going to put it out there for the world to see and believe me they will not look at it as being a great family pastime, they will show all of the negatives of innocent children being buried way too young. As much as I hate to see anyone lose their life riding MX, when it is a kid it really hits hard. Adults have a choice but some of these kids are being put into these training facilities at way too young of an age and being put under incredible pressure to perform
jeffro503
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St Helens, OR, USA
3/21/2015 11:41am
jeffro503 wrote:
Well....KW has some good points. The thing is.....this sport is dangerous. Many sports are dangerous. But most people who make it to a high level in...
Well....KW has some good points. The thing is.....this sport is dangerous. Many sports are dangerous. But most people who make it to a high level in this sport have a " Type A " personality.......which means we need something to put fear in us every now and then. I personally need that " close call " every now and then , otherwise it gets boring. If this sport was safe.....I think a lot more people would do it.....BUT , for people needing that " Rush " ......there would be even more people who would find something else crazy to do.

But it's not safe.....and I simply can't imagine how they could ever make it so safe.....that nobody ever gets killed in it. It is a shame.....trust me I know , but there really isn't much we can do about it.

I do however respect all of Kevin's opinions , and I am too sick of seeing / reading about people passing way. I just can't think of a safer way to push the boundaries .....and stay safe.
You respond to every single damn thread, every day of the week, 365 days a year. Every single post you've made have been "know it all...
You respond to every single damn thread, every day of the week, 365 days a year. Every single post you've made have been "know it all posts". Why is that you think? Do you actually know everything, or are you full of shit up to your eyeballs? I bet the later And, what's you with all the damn periods?!?!
Hmm? Well bud you seem to be mad at something. Not sure what it was about my post that made you throw a tantrum. My suggestion would be........how about don't read my replies? I'll type my stuff up any way I want to , so how about that?
#991
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3/21/2015 11:47am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 11:48am
#991 wrote:
My point is. If you lower the Rev limiting and leave the tracks as they are ATM, that would be catastrophic IMO. So even if you...
My point is. If you lower the Rev limiting and leave the tracks as they are ATM, that would be catastrophic IMO.

So even if you lower the rev limiting you're still going to have to change the tracks in most cases. If you're going to do that any way, just leave the limiters and change the tracks.

Rev limiters are dangerous IMO. Power can get you out of trouble just as well as it can get you in trouble. And, normally, You don't ride a 450 at the same RPM as you do a 250

If they get any more air than they already are, they'll need Oxygen tanks and parachutes.
Eddie_E wrote:
You better not ride the motor in your profile picture. It could be deadly as it is limited to 10,500 rpm by the porting.
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in?

Let me know if you need me to try and make it even simpler for you to comprehend.

Again. It'd be OK if you changed the tracks accordingly!
#991
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3/21/2015 11:50am
jeffro503 wrote:
Well....KW has some good points. The thing is.....this sport is dangerous. Many sports are dangerous. But most people who make it to a high level in...
Well....KW has some good points. The thing is.....this sport is dangerous. Many sports are dangerous. But most people who make it to a high level in this sport have a " Type A " personality.......which means we need something to put fear in us every now and then. I personally need that " close call " every now and then , otherwise it gets boring. If this sport was safe.....I think a lot more people would do it.....BUT , for people needing that " Rush " ......there would be even more people who would find something else crazy to do.

But it's not safe.....and I simply can't imagine how they could ever make it so safe.....that nobody ever gets killed in it. It is a shame.....trust me I know , but there really isn't much we can do about it.

I do however respect all of Kevin's opinions , and I am too sick of seeing / reading about people passing way. I just can't think of a safer way to push the boundaries .....and stay safe.
You respond to every single damn thread, every day of the week, 365 days a year. Every single post you've made have been "know it all...
You respond to every single damn thread, every day of the week, 365 days a year. Every single post you've made have been "know it all posts". Why is that you think? Do you actually know everything, or are you full of shit up to your eyeballs? I bet the later And, what's you with all the damn periods?!?!
jeffro503 wrote:
Hmm? Well bud you seem to be mad at something. Not sure what it was about my post that made you throw a tantrum. My suggestion...
Hmm? Well bud you seem to be mad at something. Not sure what it was about my post that made you throw a tantrum. My suggestion would be........how about don't read my replies? I'll type my stuff up any way I want to , so how about that?
Did you walk on his lawn Laughing
jeffro503
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3/21/2015 11:52am
You respond to every single damn thread, every day of the week, 365 days a year. Every single post you've made have been "know it all...
You respond to every single damn thread, every day of the week, 365 days a year. Every single post you've made have been "know it all posts". Why is that you think? Do you actually know everything, or are you full of shit up to your eyeballs? I bet the later And, what's you with all the damn periods?!?!
jeffro503 wrote:
Hmm? Well bud you seem to be mad at something. Not sure what it was about my post that made you throw a tantrum. My suggestion...
Hmm? Well bud you seem to be mad at something. Not sure what it was about my post that made you throw a tantrum. My suggestion would be........how about don't read my replies? I'll type my stuff up any way I want to , so how about that?
#991 wrote:
Did you walk on his lawn Laughing
Geez I guess. Not sure what his reply was all about. I just posted my opinion on the matter. I didn't have time to read through the entire thread , but I just saw his on the first page. Thought I'd see what's up. Maybe his boyfriend Frank didn't give him any last night?
731chopper
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3/21/2015 11:54am
#991 wrote:
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in? Let me know...
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in?

Let me know if you need me to try and make it even simpler for you to comprehend.

Again. It'd be OK if you changed the tracks accordingly!
I'm sorry but I've never heard the argument that rev limiters are dangerous before. As long as your transmission is geared properly you shouldn't have an issue.
#991
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3/21/2015 11:55am Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 11:57am
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that...
I don't think the ratio of catastrophic consequence (death, paralysys or TBI) against the number of participants in any sport you mentioned comes close to that of mx. Certainly not football, whose participation level is at least 1000s of times that of motocross.
#991 wrote:
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead. I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd...
On the other hand. If you don't do what you're passionate about. You'd might as well be dead.

I watched a Doco about risk once. You'd be surprised how many people in the UK die from falling down stairs and falling in the shower.
KennyT wrote:
Well that is true about there being many ways to bite it in this life and I don't mean everyone should sit on the couch and...
Well that is true about there being many ways to bite it in this life and I don't mean everyone should sit on the couch and wait for the sky to fall on them. But somewhere in the evolution of MX something went terribly wrong. Tracks, bikes, speeds or whatever. I certainly don't have the answer. But someone who has a lot more vested in this sport than this old man does better try and figure something out soon or it will no longer exist.

Mainstream America does not know what MX is and that there are very young kids participating . But when they start finding out that young kids are dying at an alarming rate then someone is going to put it out there for the world to see and believe me they will not look at it as being a great family pastime, they will show all of the negatives of innocent children being buried way too young. As much as I hate to see anyone lose their life riding MX, when it is a kid it really hits hard. Adults have a choice but some of these kids are being put into these training facilities at way too young of an age and being put under incredible pressure to perform
I keep thinking Trikes reading these types of posts.

Quad are under scrutiny here ATM mainly due to kids deaths on them. In saying that, most Instances are on farms. No helmets or proper supervision. Pity the general public don't care about that. They only see that kids are dying on them. Anything else is considered irrelevant
JackLHyde
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Nice Oak, DE
3/21/2015 11:55am
#991 wrote:
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in? Let me know...
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in?

Let me know if you need me to try and make it even simpler for you to comprehend.

Again. It'd be OK if you changed the tracks accordingly!
Your theory isn't working in MX. And it's not like the engine shuts off immediately, the power mellows out way before the limiter is reached. If you want to go faster, shift up!
#991
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3/21/2015 11:58am
#991 wrote:
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in? Let me know...
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in?

Let me know if you need me to try and make it even simpler for you to comprehend.

Again. It'd be OK if you changed the tracks accordingly!
731chopper wrote:
I'm sorry but I've never heard the argument that rev limiters are dangerous before. As long as your transmission is geared properly you shouldn't have an...
I'm sorry but I've never heard the argument that rev limiters are dangerous before. As long as your transmission is geared properly you shouldn't have an issue.
Whatever. Happy to agree to disagree.
#991
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Location
Melbourne, AU
3/21/2015 12:00pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 12:13pm
#991 wrote:
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in? Let me know...
Ever driven a car with a Rev limiter Installed? Ever gone to overtake in that car and had the rev limiter kick in?

Let me know if you need me to try and make it even simpler for you to comprehend.

Again. It'd be OK if you changed the tracks accordingly!
JackLHyde wrote:
Your theory isn't working in MX. And it's not like the engine shuts off immediately, the power mellows out way before the limiter is reached. If...
Your theory isn't working in MX. And it's not like the engine shuts off immediately, the power mellows out way before the limiter is reached. If you want to go faster, shift up!
You think it would be safe to further limit the bikes and leave the tracks as they are? Again. I get what you're saying but I'll agree to disagree

It's not the bikes as much as it's the tracks and size of the jumps anyway. IMO.
I don't think the bikes need to be limited. Ride them on the same track without jumps and I'd say the safety level would go way up.

I also don't consider what the bikes have ATM as being a Rev limiter, not in the true sense of the word. ATM they are limited by the revs they can obtain.You're talking about limiting the revs the can actually produce. Ie. Limiting a bike that can produce 10.500 RPM down to 9.500 RPM.
Pryda
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NO
3/21/2015 12:06pm
I noticed a few trends with the new generation of MX racers.
Its ALOT OF CARDIO! ALOT!
They care too much about laptimes. How often dont you see father or trainer with stop watching at the local track?

I think the sport is progressing too fast, and the bikes are faster.
Riders need to get stronger, and care more about technique.

Thats just my thoughts, go hate :D
JackLHyde
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Location
Nice Oak, DE
3/21/2015 12:12pm
#991 wrote:
You think it would be safe to further limit the bikes and leave the tracks as they are? Again. I get what you're saying but I'll...
You think it would be safe to further limit the bikes and leave the tracks as they are? Again. I get what you're saying but I'll agree to disagree

It's not the bikes as much as it's the tracks and size of the jumps anyway. IMO.
I don't think the bikes need to be limited. Ride them on the same track without jumps and I'd say the safety level would go way up.

I also don't consider what the bikes have ATM as being a Rev limiter, not in the true sense of the word. ATM they are limited by the revs they can obtain.You're talking about limiting the revs the can actually produce. Ie. Limiting a bike that can produce 10.500 RPM down to 9.500 RPM.
No, the tracks will change on its own when the riders start complaining they can't make the jumps. If the bikes stay the way they are nothing will happen.
The problem of this change is, it's counter-evolutionary. It will take a global change of mindsets that riders will be limited in what they can do with their bikes.
mark_swart
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2525
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Location
Chapin, SC, USA
3/21/2015 12:13pm
It's a perfect storm for sure -- easy to use power, great suspension, and tracks that haven't been adjusted to slow the bikes down.
And maybe it's just because I'm old, but I swear it seems like when I get thrown off a four stroke, it just throws you different and with more force. It's like the two strokes threw you out to the side, whereas the four strokes just slam you down. Maybe it's the false sense of confidence that four strokes give - we tend to try and stay with them longer where on a two stroke we might have just bailed off earlier? I've seen plenty of nasty wrecks on two strokes too, of course.

I don't think there is any real way to collect data between the pre-four stroke era and now. Not to mention, because of the Internet, the community hears about every serious incident now as opposed to 20-30 years ago.

Slowing tracks down is the most feasible change. But I think going back to 125/250 would be the healthiest change long-term for both safety and economic reasons.
#991
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Melbourne, AU
3/21/2015 12:17pm Edited Date/Time 3/21/2015 12:27pm
#991 wrote:
You think it would be safe to further limit the bikes and leave the tracks as they are? Again. I get what you're saying but I'll...
You think it would be safe to further limit the bikes and leave the tracks as they are? Again. I get what you're saying but I'll agree to disagree

It's not the bikes as much as it's the tracks and size of the jumps anyway. IMO.
I don't think the bikes need to be limited. Ride them on the same track without jumps and I'd say the safety level would go way up.

I also don't consider what the bikes have ATM as being a Rev limiter, not in the true sense of the word. ATM they are limited by the revs they can obtain.You're talking about limiting the revs the can actually produce. Ie. Limiting a bike that can produce 10.500 RPM down to 9.500 RPM.
JackLHyde wrote:
No, the tracks will change on its own when the riders start complaining they can't make the jumps. If the bikes stay the way they are...
No, the tracks will change on its own when the riders start complaining they can't make the jumps. If the bikes stay the way they are nothing will happen.
The problem of this change is, it's counter-evolutionary. It will take a global change of mindsets that riders will be limited in what they can do with their bikes.
It would have to be riders at the top level for that to happen. They don't seem to be struggling with the tracks or bikes so much.

I get what you're saying though and you do have a good point Wink .

Something to ponder. In the Moto GP's the 125's always provided the best racing and entertainment.
Put RD#5 on a 125 and he might even make the occasional mistake. Gee, that'd suck for race fans ATM.
731chopper
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4229
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Location
DFW, TX, USA
3/21/2015 12:25pm
#991 wrote:
It would have to be riders at the top level for that to happen. They don't seem to be struggling with the tracks or bikes so...
It would have to be riders at the top level for that to happen. They don't seem to be struggling with the tracks or bikes so much.

I get what you're saying though and you do have a good point Wink .

Something to ponder. In the Moto GP's the 125's always provided the best racing and entertainment.
Put RD#5 on a 125 and he might even make the occasional mistake. Gee, that'd suck for race fans ATM.
It'd be easy to do on the pro level via the rule book. F1 has done this quite a bit over the last several decades.

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