Upgrade to enjoy this feature!
Vital MX fantasy is free to play, but Premium users receive great benefits. Premium benefits include:
- View and download rider stats
- Pick trends
- Create a private league
- And more!
Only $10 for all 2026 SX, MX, and SMX series.
But it's not safe.....and I simply can't imagine how they could ever make it so safe.....that nobody ever gets killed in it. It is a shame.....trust me I know , but there really isn't much we can do about it.
I do however respect all of Kevin's opinions , and I am too sick of seeing / reading about people passing way. I just can't think of a safer way to push the boundaries .....and stay safe.
450s are approaching near that.
125s and 250s or 300s is plenty.
The non premier class shouldnt be able to do the same obstacles as the premier class. And the lap times shouldnt be comparable.
What we are seeing is 2 things.
450s are too fast and few use them fully thus being slim to zero faster than most on a 250. Either too much power not being used or the track is too small.
Save a few top 3 premier guys.
250s are so fast they are going near the same times as the top 5 450s and are clearing all the same jumps..
The Shop
DeCal Works Huge Plastic Inventory of UFO and Polisport kits.
Luxon 4-Post Bar Mounts
$189.95 - $239.95
We need to keep making bikes faster and faster. There are no consequences.
A 250 2-stroke isn't fast enough.
We need direct injected camless 450s.
And if Kevin Windham is saying this? What a hero with years of racing and transfer-stunningness behind him. I am listening to him.
Indy and NASCAR manage the maximum speed by periodically lowering maximum displacement as technology advances. Every few years adjustments are made.
In Motocross we did the opposite. As bikes got faster we increased displacement and HP.
I agree that the HP of a 125 and 250 2 stroke should be the standard. A 175 or 200cc 4 stroke sounds about right for the current 250 class, along with a 300-350 in the current 450 class.
I have a plan for how to transition that will be good for both riders and the manufacturers.
I'll post it again if there's any interest.
I think it's reasonable to believe that managing the speed in Motocross would save lives.
Let' do it!
Sold my 450 for a 125. Don't need it. But the sport is radically dangerous.
What's the right answer ?
Another social media race like the last time someone posted final results before the checkered and OOOPS, false info?
Why would someone be in a race to post this info, true or not?
Low fuckin rent and blatant disrespect.
Not to justify the danger inherent to SX/MX, but to act like ours is the only sport in which young people die is ignorant of the reality of the situation.
If you want a drastic change, 175cc and 300cc. It would be a big difference and change racing in todays age, but remember, change isn't always a bad thing. Maybe it would work? Never know until you try!
I'd really like to see 125cc two stroke and 250F be the two bike classes. Slow them down, give the kids a chance to work up. Slow the tracks down. Develop more safety gear. Shit can still happen but damn it seems like it's happening a lot now.
I and few others find riding a 450 a lot easier and safer than riding a 250f. Yes the bike is a lot faster but you ride it at lower RPM.
Im a lot more in control and crash a lot less when i ride a 450f compared to a 250f were most cases you have to ride the thing so hard.
But i do understand the point were most local riders still like to ride a 450f like a 250 and ride it close to the rev limiter.
Thats when things go wrong for inexperience riders.
How can you say that this incident wouldn't have happened on a bike with less power?
Pit Row
When amateurs are hucking 250feet quads at a local track... well, I'm not sure that was going on much in the 80s or 90s, or that the bikes would stand up to it.
If this had happened to somebody riding an 85cc, would the conversation be different?
The level of the sport is just insane. Really, there are so many variables to consider that it's hard to pinpoint the issue. Everyone is trying to be the best and when there is someone that is better, the next person pushes harder. Essentially, It is like a form of chicken. Take into consideration, some people are on equipment that doesn't work as well as another's, but the lesser of the two still wants to be the best and pushes beyond a bike's threshold. It is pretty much impossible to recognize the point where a bike is at its limit, but it is pushed these days by even kids. Also, it's just human error at times on the edge and this is the result.
250 ft jump argument is also problematic because, often, these results aren't on extremely large jumps or something ridiculous. It happens in a fast section or a choppy section that just catches people off guard. This is a unique sport where the race track dramatically changes each lap and a line 6 inches one way or another causes completely different reactions.
I'm truly saddened for this news and it really takes away more joy and pride I have in the sport each time I hear of news like this. It's hard to accept the reality of the cruelty of a sport we love so much, especially when it's not as simple as just being safer on the bike.
I can't provide any real plans for improvement because everyone will continue to push the limits and each other. I guess the only real way to increase safety is to try to decrease the bike's power in order to lower the limit and slow tracks down more
Also, and I know it sounds radical, but I would like to see equipment be more equal. As I said, a kid at amateur nationals with nearer stock equipment will try to do what the kid on team support is doing in his class. Are the early geico, tld, star, pc etc. signings increasing the limits and equipment capability gap? Yes, and, I feel, that this is problematic, especially for young riders, when they cannot or will not accept the fact that they are limited to their resources. (Referencing a-kit suspension on top amateur teams working with top tuners vs local revalve)
I will pray for the family and for some improvement in the near future. I don't expect many will agree with my thoughts, but I hope everyone at least realizes some changes should be considered and change in safety shouldn't be viewed as an impact in the integrity of the sport.
And just like the big bikes, the 85s now are more capable than they were in the 1980s, and the expectations of what riders can and should do, has also naturally risen with seeing what the big guys do. It's always been a dangerous sport, always will be, I'm not sure anything is being done about it tho, are you?
My best years racing were in the 90's early 2000's for example.,there were plenty of big scary blind jumps then, but the approach had to spot on to clear. Many off camber with deep ruts kept speeds down,up and down rough hill sides, really fun stuff all done with relatively lower speeds. Tracks were not groomed as much and that helped keep speeds down. Also of course bikes were slower but just as fun
Also some jumps amd rhythms could not be done by most 125's and anybody except top B and some A riders. Now 2nd year novices can jump,everything and go faster than they should because of the speed and torque of the 4 strokes. Not a 2 vs 4 stroke argument.
Maybe reducing the size down to like 350 and 200 or so will allow the 200 class to be what it was meant to be and amatuers can be amateurs again
What about Faulks crash at freestone? Got clipped by another rider on a 10 ft table top landing, got squirrely and wadded into a fence. He was damn lucky he didn't get impaled by a green metal stake. That was completely unrelated to power or fatigue, and would have happened regardless of him being on an 85,125, (200,300,350), or 450.
Shane
How many times have we heard about these riders hitting a "Kicker" before take off or landing into the face of another jump in a crazy rhythm section?
I know there is only so much time in the day to get these races run but, as much traveling I do and being on the track shooting photos, often times I see sections that need attention and it does not happen. Just last weekend while at an LLQ, the track really needed some attention to a couple sections but didn't get it. They did however groom other parts of the track between motos but missed others. There was someone riding around looking at the track as races went on so I assume he saw what I did.
Now with that said, I do feel the track crew did a good job with what they were working with, just not sure why some sections got more attention then others all day long.
But this has often been the case and it is not like its just one track promoter or one track doing these type of things themselves. I see this everywhere and there has been several times these sections have not been groomed until someone crashed. Thats where I feel changes need to be made, at the tracks.
Now everyone has there theory but my theory is this '0' until I see data / stats that give us a history or trend on these sad incidents I ain't giving my two bobs worth. Is there more deaths now than earlier are people judging things on hearing or by actually knowing.
Post a reply to: Windham on hoeft