Did Roczen jump out of the Bakery, or was he pushed?

burnside
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Edited Date/Time 3/3/2015 11:25am
Thinking out loud from my couch here - but was there ever an element of Roczen being pissed at Aldon for taking on Dungey? Did Dungey joining have anything to do with his decision to leave?

Seemed like him, RV & AC were the dream team, I'm wondering if Dungey and Roczen's relationship is as healthy?
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IWreckALot
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3/3/2015 4:41am
I doubt we'll ever know the answer if it's a bad relationship with Baker or Dungey at this point. Either way, Dungey has played his cards right and Roczen's season has come a bit unglued at the moment.

All of the audio clips and interviews it seem like all 3 are on good terms. In my opinion, I think Roczen is finding that the grass is rarely greener on the other side.
kongols
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3/3/2015 4:44am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2015 4:45am
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays because of KTM-Husquarna connection. Just my opinion, to be clear.
Randy Savage
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3/3/2015 4:47am
Here's my observation.

Kenny's dad was his trainer up until he went to Aldon. When Kenny went to Aldon, this supposedly caused a rift between the two (straight out of Roczen's mouth) and he didnt speak with his father for a long time.

Well, dad's back in the pits, and Aldon is out.

Infer from that what you will, it's just an observation.
kongols
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3/3/2015 4:52am
Here's my observation. Kenny's dad was his trainer up until he went to Aldon. When Kenny went to Aldon, this supposedly caused a rift between the...
Here's my observation.

Kenny's dad was his trainer up until he went to Aldon. When Kenny went to Aldon, this supposedly caused a rift between the two (straight out of Roczen's mouth) and he didnt speak with his father for a long time.

Well, dad's back in the pits, and Aldon is out.

Infer from that what you will, it's just an observation.
Dad was back in Germany long before Aldon. Just my observation.

The Shop

3/3/2015 4:56am
Here's my observation. Kenny's dad was his trainer up until he went to Aldon. When Kenny went to Aldon, this supposedly caused a rift between the...
Here's my observation.

Kenny's dad was his trainer up until he went to Aldon. When Kenny went to Aldon, this supposedly caused a rift between the two (straight out of Roczen's mouth) and he didnt speak with his father for a long time.

Well, dad's back in the pits, and Aldon is out.

Infer from that what you will, it's just an observation.
kongols wrote:
Dad was back in Germany long before Aldon. Just my observation.
Correct I don't even think his dad ever trained him in America until now
IWreckALot
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3/3/2015 5:15am
kongols wrote:
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays...
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays because of KTM-Husquarna connection. Just my opinion, to be clear.
Aldon is still training Cianciarullo though right?
kongols
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3/3/2015 5:23am
kongols wrote:
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays...
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays because of KTM-Husquarna connection. Just my opinion, to be clear.
IWreckALot wrote:
Aldon is still training Cianciarullo though right?
I don`t know.
3/3/2015 5:41am
I think PulpMx hit the nail on the head. Why would you want to ride with your competition everyday? Ricky never did it and look how successful he was. Say during the week, Dungey's running a faster laptime then him on the test track. Kenny's gonna come in the the weekend already placing Kenny in front of him. It was probably influence from Ricky and his father.
3/3/2015 5:52am
I can kind of see the logic in that but... on the other hand it could work against him not knowing what he was up against. If he knew how fast dungey was going he could put the extra effort in and get faster no?????
3/3/2015 5:53am
Personally I would prefer to be able to gauge my speed against my main rival
dsmith
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3/3/2015 6:25am
he wanted to go to the bakery?...
3/3/2015 6:40am
Ken left on his own for his own reason, Dungey and Baker had nothing to do wirh it.

Ricky has no input in Kens training.

Aldon doesn't have a contract with KTM.

Aldon still trains Adam C.t
3/3/2015 6:46am
kongols wrote:
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays...
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays because of KTM-Husquarna connection. Just my opinion, to be clear.
IWreckALot wrote:
Aldon is still training Cianciarullo though right?
kongols wrote:
I don`t know.
Yes, AC is still in the bakery. Roczen leaving had nothing to do with the switch to Suzuki. I'm pretty sure Kenny was still with Aldon through the first few rounds of this year.
GMalzee
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3/3/2015 6:52am
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that he likes to golf and jet ski and do stuff like that. Hard to have fun if you are training all the time.
ML512
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3/3/2015 7:09am
kongols wrote:
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays...
If I`m not mistaken TeamGreen wrote that Aldon signed contract with KTM. Kenny`s contract with KTM ended in December which is when they split. Anderson stays because of KTM-Husquarna connection. Just my opinion, to be clear.
That contract didn't end up happening, or at least not the original version per say. Originally, it was supposed to be for all KTM/Husqvarna riders to have access to Aldon, but Kenny was part the reason that didn't go through with him leaving KTM. There is a current KTM rider that tried to get in on the program but wasn't able to due to something with Kenny.
3/3/2015 7:11am
I think PulpMx hit the nail on the head. Why would you want to ride with your competition everyday? Ricky never did it and look how...
I think PulpMx hit the nail on the head. Why would you want to ride with your competition everyday? Ricky never did it and look how successful he was. Say during the week, Dungey's running a faster laptime then him on the test track. Kenny's gonna come in the the weekend already placing Kenny in front of him. It was probably influence from Ricky and his father.
Worked pretty good for Kenny last year when RV let him come on board and train with his trainer, and use his track and gym.

I hope Kenny didn't leave just because Dungey came on board because that would be ridiculous. RV opened the door for him last year and gave him a great advantage. It would be silly for him to run off pouting just because Aldon opened the door for someone else at his level.
3/3/2015 7:31am
Only reason that Dyngey even got the spot was because Kenny left, end of story. It was all on Roczen and has nothing to do with Ktm at all...once Ken gets his confidence back he will be fine.
3/3/2015 7:35am
GMalzee wrote:
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that...
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that he likes to golf and jet ski and do stuff like that. Hard to have fun if you are training all the time.
Um, that is entirely incorrect Sir!

Problem is there is a fine line at peaking at the worng time and each individuals training will interval differently.

James training regimen is also very intense...so not sure where you are getting your info from?

IWreckALot
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3/3/2015 7:40am
GMalzee wrote:
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that...
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that he likes to golf and jet ski and do stuff like that. Hard to have fun if you are training all the time.
Um, that is entirely incorrect Sir! Problem is there is a fine line at peaking at the worng time and each individuals training will interval differently...
Um, that is entirely incorrect Sir!

Problem is there is a fine line at peaking at the worng time and each individuals training will interval differently.

James training regimen is also very intense...so not sure where you are getting your info from?

I thought Dungey was with Aldon before Roczen split with KTM? Is that timing off?
3/3/2015 7:41am
Only reason that Dyngey even got the spot was because Kenny left, end of story. It was all on Roczen and has nothing to do with...
Only reason that Dyngey even got the spot was because Kenny left, end of story. It was all on Roczen and has nothing to do with Ktm at all...once Ken gets his confidence back he will be fine.
Um not quite, Dungey started working with Baker around August, Roczen stopped working with him full time in January.
davistld01
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3/3/2015 7:43am
GMalzee wrote:
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that...
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that he likes to golf and jet ski and do stuff like that. Hard to have fun if you are training all the time.
Villopoto was such a bundle of laughs all the time, though. Why would you say that?

Whistling
Fearo
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3/3/2015 8:03am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2015 8:05am
From all of the interviews I've heard/read about this issue, this is what I make out of it:

After RV's departure, Roczen became Baker's number one, which means the involvement of Baker in Kenny's life got brought to another level. This is what Aldon feels is needed to mold a champion: Get completely invested in a rider's life, and tell them what to do at all times.

But Roczen is a strong-minded dude. He knows what he wants and feels he needs to be able to relax and goof off sometimes in order to feel good in the bike. Roczen started feeling tired from the insane Baker bootcamp and said he'd rather not ride on mondays anymore but Baker told him that wasn't gonna happen. (this is a direct quote from an interview). I believe that was a turning point in their relationship and they split up shortly after, while they were still on good terms. Nowhere did I ever get the "vibe" that this had to do with another rider coming in.
Adam43
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3/3/2015 8:11am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2015 8:12am
It's all about Carmichael grinding his axe.

There was a big rift between RC and Aldon at the end of his career.

He steered his new hire away from Baker and tried to pump him up, letting Roczen run his program on his own terms.

When anyone questions the logic, RC can throw out his own record and crow that no one knows what works better than him, perhaps forgetting that Baker guided him for the last 7 and most successful years of his career.
IWreckALot
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3/3/2015 8:13am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2015 8:19am
GMalzee wrote:
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that...
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that he likes to golf and jet ski and do stuff like that. Hard to have fun if you are training all the time.
davistld01 wrote:
Villopoto was such a bundle of laughs all the time, though. Why would you say that?

Whistling
I don't think RV's personality is any different with or without Aldon. From what I understand, he is dry all the time. And he's actually more fun than the public sees.

But, I do recall hearing a lot of rumors that he was burnt out on Aldon's program, burnt out on the race and media schedules and everything else. The riders can't change the race and media schedules but they can change their training program. So I believe that is why guys like Stewart, and now Kenny decide to part ways with Aldon. RV never split but he has a higher desire to win than the rest.

I'm also curious as to what role Aldon is playing in Dungey's program. . . Dungey's fitness is arguably the best in the field without Aldon and he is self disciplined. I can't see a reason that he would allow Aldon to fiddle with the fitness aspect more than just giving input here and there. GuyB or Michael, is RD a closed book on this kind of thing or can you ever get an interview asking generically what Aldon is doing for them?
ChrisB10
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3/3/2015 8:39am Edited Date/Time 3/3/2015 8:52am
According to Matthes and Weigandt, Aldon gets around $200K from the top guys for a complete program like what Kenny was on. At that price I doubt he's pushing anyone away. I think he left KTM because he didnt want to be in the same tent as his main competitor and I think that's the same reason he left the Baker factory. Just my opinion...
peelout
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3/3/2015 8:42am
IWreckALot wrote:
I doubt we'll ever know the answer if it's a bad relationship with Baker or Dungey at this point. Either way, Dungey has played his cards...
I doubt we'll ever know the answer if it's a bad relationship with Baker or Dungey at this point. Either way, Dungey has played his cards right and Roczen's season has come a bit unglued at the moment.

All of the audio clips and interviews it seem like all 3 are on good terms. In my opinion, I think Roczen is finding that the grass is rarely greener on the other side.
3/3/2015 9:00am
Fearo wrote:
From all of the interviews I've heard/read about this issue, this is what I make out of it: After RV's departure, Roczen became Baker's number one...
From all of the interviews I've heard/read about this issue, this is what I make out of it:

After RV's departure, Roczen became Baker's number one, which means the involvement of Baker in Kenny's life got brought to another level. This is what Aldon feels is needed to mold a champion: Get completely invested in a rider's life, and tell them what to do at all times.

But Roczen is a strong-minded dude. He knows what he wants and feels he needs to be able to relax and goof off sometimes in order to feel good in the bike. Roczen started feeling tired from the insane Baker bootcamp and said he'd rather not ride on mondays anymore but Baker told him that wasn't gonna happen. (this is a direct quote from an interview). I believe that was a turning point in their relationship and they split up shortly after, while they were still on good terms. Nowhere did I ever get the "vibe" that this had to do with another rider coming in.
There's probably at least a part of truth to this. Aldon was with RV all the time, monitoring what he ate and how he trained. Anyone see Kenny being cool with that?
Xeno
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3/3/2015 9:08am
LOL peelout! Did the cow 'case' the fence, or 'udder' it- what do you call that?

As for the Aldon/K-Roc/RV/RC/RD thing: Rich people's problems!Cheerful
andyman
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3/3/2015 9:09am
GMalzee wrote:
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that...
Like a lot of athletes do Kenny probably lost interest in the intense training once he signed a big contract. He is like Stewart in that he likes to golf and jet ski and do stuff like that. Hard to have fun if you are training all the time.
davistld01 wrote:
Villopoto was such a bundle of laughs all the time, though. Why would you say that?

Whistling
IWreckALot wrote:
I don't think RV's personality is any different with or without Aldon. From what I understand, he is dry all the time. And he's actually more...
I don't think RV's personality is any different with or without Aldon. From what I understand, he is dry all the time. And he's actually more fun than the public sees.

But, I do recall hearing a lot of rumors that he was burnt out on Aldon's program, burnt out on the race and media schedules and everything else. The riders can't change the race and media schedules but they can change their training program. So I believe that is why guys like Stewart, and now Kenny decide to part ways with Aldon. RV never split but he has a higher desire to win than the rest.

I'm also curious as to what role Aldon is playing in Dungey's program. . . Dungey's fitness is arguably the best in the field without Aldon and he is self disciplined. I can't see a reason that he would allow Aldon to fiddle with the fitness aspect more than just giving input here and there. GuyB or Michael, is RD a closed book on this kind of thing or can you ever get an interview asking generically what Aldon is doing for them?
Listen the PulpMx show from yesterday. Dungey talks about his training with Aldon and why he thinks it's really good for him. Make's sense for me !
andyman
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3/3/2015 9:15am
ML512 wrote:
That contract didn't end up happening, or at least not the original version per say. Originally, it was supposed to be for all KTM/Husqvarna riders to...
That contract didn't end up happening, or at least not the original version per say. Originally, it was supposed to be for all KTM/Husqvarna riders to have access to Aldon, but Kenny was part the reason that didn't go through with him leaving KTM. There is a current KTM rider that tried to get in on the program but wasn't able to due to something with Kenny.

I think that now that Kenny is out, Dean Wilson can and will join to Aldon's team. I know he tried to get in the Bakery but there was some issues so he was left out. Kenny is gone, issue is gone?

Post a reply to: Did Roczen jump out of the Bakery, or was he pushed?

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