He was using it as a....

Crush
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Crush 6/20/2014 12:12am
6/20/2014 12:12am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 12:14am
I'll add too, I'm not calling for his head.

If it's a paperwork mistake, make an appropriate fine and redact his points for Seattle.

I've said the whole time, I just want them to handle it like a professional group, not a bunch of fuckups who's rule book is there for nothing more than a door stop.

And I'll also support them doing it, regardless of how complex it is, because I thoroughly believe that we should be looking after any younger kids who may be tempted by harmful shit for a so called advantage.
dkg
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dkg 6/20/2014 12:15am
6/20/2014 12:15am
plowboy wrote:
So if an old boy was missing a thumb or had one leg shorter than the other or used corrective lenses they should be penalized or...
So if an old boy was missing a thumb or had one leg shorter than the other or used corrective lenses they should be penalized or banned cause they are using performance enhancing devices? A legally prescribed drug is no different than a prosthetic that corrects a physical or mental defect. IMHO.
hvaughn88 wrote:
Are those things on the list for being illegal? While I respect you guys' opinion on whether adderal is a PED or not, the fact remains...
Are those things on the list for being illegal? While I respect you guys' opinion on whether adderal is a PED or not, the fact remains that it's a non point because that's a different argument altogether. It doesn't matter how ridiculous a rule is. So yes, if the rules were to say that corrective lenses are illegal and you use them, you should be penalized. If it is a rule, it's a rule and you have to either follow it, serve punishment for violating the procedures, or get out. Some of you guys really need to seperate your personal opinion about a rule from your ability to understand a rule, because they are not always one and the same.
2thefront wrote:
Agree completely and this is just something America struggles with now days. No one can follow rules. They just want to talk about whether it should...
Agree completely and this is just something America struggles with now days. No one can follow rules. They just want to talk about whether it should be a rule or not when someone gets disciplined for breaking a rule.
Come on, you really think it isn't a good idea to question whether or not any stupid rule should not be questioned (I am not focusing on the PED question here just taking issue with your general statement). States have so many dumbass laws that I can't imagine that anyone would simply go along with every stupid idea that comes along. Question the law/rule if it is dumb work to get it changed. Do you really want SX/MX to be a sport where a rider has to choose between participating and receiving appropriate medical care. At worst this appears to be a case where obtaining an exemption wasn't done.
theToothPerry
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theToothPerry 6/20/2014 12:16am
6/20/2014 12:16am
Crush wrote:
I could give a fuck what's on the list bud. Absurd or not, that's the list. Because Doctors much smarter than you or I have deemed...
I could give a fuck what's on the list bud.

Absurd or not, that's the list. Because Doctors much smarter than you or I have deemed it is an advantage.

The ones that have a medical reasoning behind them to take them, such as Adderall, have been given a frame work to allow them to be used, with due consideration of prior lodged paper work. Process. James, his Doctors, his crew, team whatever, all could have avoided this just by following procedure.

I know I take asthma medication. I know it. James would know what he's taking. Any sane person would just go, hey, what's in this shit, am I allowed to take it since i'm getting drug tested? Which, btw, again, this was the 2nd to last round.

It's not hard. If you don't follow the list tho, you run into a bunch of ethical and philosophical questions about what is performance enhancing, why not just let them cheat etc etc. You're almost saying it's a long list so I should be ok to get away with it because i'm fucking ignorant!

Have you read the laws around taxes? Around finances? Around loads of stuff. It's pretty complex and people abide by it fairly easily.

As for being the only one that has failed, he's the only one that has been made known, so since that's all i'm interested in, or what you or anyone else should be, why don't we keep the tin foil armadillo hat theories in the dumbgeon.
But you realize he couldve taken something for a headache and this shit is brought up. RVs iv drip controversy in toronto is the same thing just not so exposed. Please. And thats clearly CLEARLY against the rules. But hes the champ. Like Ricky Carmichael getting his points back. The people who run the moto industry are a joke and will do anything to keep a rider on their side.
Crush
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Crush 6/20/2014 12:20am
6/20/2014 12:20am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 12:22am
theToothPerry wrote:
But you realize he couldve taken something for a headache and this shit is brought up. RVs iv drip controversy in toronto is the same thing...
But you realize he couldve taken something for a headache and this shit is brought up. RVs iv drip controversy in toronto is the same thing just not so exposed. Please. And thats clearly CLEARLY against the rules. But hes the champ. Like Ricky Carmichael getting his points back. The people who run the moto industry are a joke and will do anything to keep a rider on their side.
Again. There is a process for taking ibuprofen or receiving Doctor administer treatment. And again, I don't give a shit what's on the list. Rules are rules.

And again, you don't, in fact, no one here, KNOWS that RV had an IV. So again, keep the tin foil bs away, that's not the issue.


I do agree on your last point. The show aspect is most definitely a fucking issue in this sport. The only time I've seen something handled really well, was MXSports and Lasergate. That was professional. In fact, I almost wished this happened during the MX season, because then I would have hope it would be handled correctly.

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Fraser
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Fraser 6/20/2014 12:27am
6/20/2014 12:27am
Where's that video of him talking about drug tests? Saw it yesterday somewhere in the big thread but not sure where. Its VERY relevant now,,
eurofighter69 6/20/2014 12:29am
6/20/2014 12:29am
Amphetamines are one of the most used drugs in all sports.Using them without reported to the WADA is irresponsible. Sad
gekko
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gekko 6/20/2014 12:34am
6/20/2014 12:34am
Seriously?
Do you really think Suzuki would still be supporting him if this wasn´t a mistake of some sort?

I sure hope this won´t ruin his outdoor season or his focus, we are in for one of the most exciting nationals since .. well since Villopoto wasn´t around the last time .. LOL

I will wait for the complete story before I make up my mind on what to think about all this.


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jemcee 6/20/2014 12:35am
6/20/2014 12:35am
mxbenchracer wrote:
Unless he can cope with it in a manner that is legal under the rules set up by the racing bodies.... yeah I would. If you...
Unless he can cope with it in a manner that is legal under the rules set up by the racing bodies.... yeah I would. If you can't compete within the rules of a sport you shouldn't compete in it. For the record the only thing I know about Adderall is that its banned, so I'm not interested in arguing about weather or not its a PED
plowboy wrote:
So you are calling Dennis Jonon a gimlet who should never have tried to race? You need to tell yer story walking dude.
I'm not gonna say Stewart was cheating cause I don't know but what if Dennis Jonon developed something to help him ride that was actually an advantage?
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VET176 6/20/2014 12:39am
6/20/2014 12:39am
mxbenchracer wrote:
This is the exact same argument that MMA fighters have been using to try and get away with taking TRT "its a disability so I need...
This is the exact same argument that MMA fighters have been using to try and get away with taking TRT "its a disability so I need meds to be normal, its not making me better then everyone else its putting me at their level" That's so bogus, if you are not as good without the stuff as you are with it, then its enhancing YOUR performance end of story, if James or any other rider is taking stuff that's on a banned list to get better results, its cheating end of story. Racing motocross is not a persons right, if you need banned meds to do it weather or not it gives you an edge, maybe its time to hang up the boots.
Agree 100%.

Damn there are some Nanna's on here. Taking any drugs on the prohibited list is deemed to be giving you an unfair advantage. If you are, you are cheating.
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RickLeY 6/20/2014 12:40am
6/20/2014 12:40am
I for one don't care, test everyone all the time or shut up.
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drmarkr 6/20/2014 12:43am
6/20/2014 12:43am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 12:44am
Crush wrote:
I'll add too, I'm not calling for his head. If it's a paperwork mistake, make an appropriate fine and redact his points for Seattle. I've said...
I'll add too, I'm not calling for his head.

If it's a paperwork mistake, make an appropriate fine and redact his points for Seattle.

I've said the whole time, I just want them to handle it like a professional group, not a bunch of fuckups who's rule book is there for nothing more than a door stop.

And I'll also support them doing it, regardless of how complex it is, because I thoroughly believe that we should be looking after any younger kids who may be tempted by harmful shit for a so called advantage.
"And I'll also support them doing it, regardless of how complex it is, because I thoroughly believe that we should be looking after any younger kids who may be tempted by harmful shit for a so called advantage."

THIS is the reason we need aggressive testing, for God's sake. And note, it's not taking crap for an advantage, but rather taking them to avoid being disadvantaged by the OTHER riders taking them....

That's pretty much the sum of this fuggin issue.
Crush
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Crush 6/20/2014 1:08am
6/20/2014 1:08am
drmarkr wrote:
"And I'll also support them doing it, regardless of how complex it is, because I thoroughly believe that we should be looking after any younger kids...
"And I'll also support them doing it, regardless of how complex it is, because I thoroughly believe that we should be looking after any younger kids who may be tempted by harmful shit for a so called advantage."

THIS is the reason we need aggressive testing, for God's sake. And note, it's not taking crap for an advantage, but rather taking them to avoid being disadvantaged by the OTHER riders taking them....

That's pretty much the sum of this fuggin issue.
Agree.

Strongly.
Crush
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Crush 6/20/2014 1:10am
6/20/2014 1:10am
gekko wrote:
Seriously? Do you really think Suzuki would still be supporting him if this wasn´t a mistake of some sort? I sure hope this won´t ruin his...
Seriously?
Do you really think Suzuki would still be supporting him if this wasn´t a mistake of some sort?

I sure hope this won´t ruin his outdoor season or his focus, we are in for one of the most exciting nationals since .. well since Villopoto wasn´t around the last time .. LOL

I will wait for the complete story before I make up my mind on what to think about all this.


Fuel gate buddy. Look it up.

I mean really? No one with a vested interest EVER looks out for their guy when they get in shit do they?!?!
gekko
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gekko 6/20/2014 1:13am
6/20/2014 1:13am
gekko wrote:
Seriously? Do you really think Suzuki would still be supporting him if this wasn´t a mistake of some sort? I sure hope this won´t ruin his...
Seriously?
Do you really think Suzuki would still be supporting him if this wasn´t a mistake of some sort?

I sure hope this won´t ruin his outdoor season or his focus, we are in for one of the most exciting nationals since .. well since Villopoto wasn´t around the last time .. LOL

I will wait for the complete story before I make up my mind on what to think about all this.


Crush wrote:
Fuel gate buddy. Look it up. I mean really? No one with a vested interest EVER looks out for their guy when they get in shit...
Fuel gate buddy. Look it up.

I mean really? No one with a vested interest EVER looks out for their guy when they get in shit do they?!?!
Depends on how deep the shit is.
hvaughn88
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hvaughn88 6/20/2014 4:14am
6/20/2014 4:14am
Holy hell, I give up. Some of you guys are just too damn ignorant to argue with.
Lamecake
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Lamecake 6/20/2014 4:24am
6/20/2014 4:24am
So.. RV's known iv wasn't performance enhancing?
Crush
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Crush 6/20/2014 4:30am
6/20/2014 4:30am
Lamecake wrote:
So.. RV's known iv wasn't performance enhancing?
Again!

What IV.

I've been to the hospital literally dozens of times and never had an IV.

And you didn't know about that either. Why don't we just talk about what the subject?

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captaincrunch 6/20/2014 4:55am
6/20/2014 4:55am
Actually, adderall should be considered a different offense than EPO or blood doping in our sport because it is used to increase speed, no pun intended. EPO or blood doping is endurance based. Adderall increases focus, provides confidence, enhances brain processing, a major benefit for timing of difficult rhythm sections and line choices.


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FastEddy 6/20/2014 4:58am
6/20/2014 4:58am Edited Date/Time 6/20/2014 5:17am
drmarkr wrote:
"And I'll also support them doing it, regardless of how complex it is, because I thoroughly believe that we should be looking after any younger kids...
"And I'll also support them doing it, regardless of how complex it is, because I thoroughly believe that we should be looking after any younger kids who may be tempted by harmful shit for a so called advantage."

THIS is the reason we need aggressive testing, for God's sake. And note, it's not taking crap for an advantage, but rather taking them to avoid being disadvantaged by the OTHER riders taking them....

That's pretty much the sum of this fuggin issue.
I have a question.

What would be a WADA legal alternative to Adderall that a Dr. could prescribe,or an alternative treatment route an athlete could take?Granted that they did have a long term medical condition that warranted being treated(as the PR stated) with a drug like adderall?
Basically,if an athlete came to you for treatment with a disorder (that normally granted a adderall script.) - what routes/steps/alternatives could you take to where he was legal within WADA testing standards(by taking Adderall out of the equation) and still see results regarding the treatment.

I'd assume there's other forms of treatment.
Was just looking for an example or 2 of how it would be professionally handled -had you had a patient like JS7 or Reed or RV2 or even Armstrong.

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Beast666 6/20/2014 5:10am
6/20/2014 5:10am
The fact of the matter is as follows :

1. JS7 was given a prescription that is on the WADA / USADA banned list What that drug is ??? but it does not matter it is banned for all athletes unless WADA / USADA grants a Therapeutic Use Exemption (TUE).

2. JS7 did not check to see if the prescription was banned nor did he apply for a TUE from WADA / USADA.

3. If JS7 would have told WADA / USADA that he was taking the prescription at the time of the test he might have been excluded from the results at Seattle or just warned that he needs to get a TUE.

Three wrongs do not make it OK. It does not matter if the the drug has a large performance enhancement or a small one it is a banned substance and it is not fair to all other racers on the starting line.

JS7 has done more bad things for the sport as of late than positive with his contract breaking, impersonating a police officer and now this. Time for him to go bye bye.
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lando356 6/20/2014 5:11am
6/20/2014 5:11am
captaincrunch wrote:
Actually, adderall should be considered a different offense than EPO or blood doping in our sport because it is used to increase speed, no pun intended...
Actually, adderall should be considered a different offense than EPO or blood doping in our sport because it is used to increase speed, no pun intended. EPO or blood doping is endurance based. Adderall increases focus, provides confidence, enhances brain processing, a major benefit for timing of difficult rhythm sections and line choices.


I Agree!
inthebadboycorner 6/20/2014 5:16am
6/20/2014 5:16am
Wada has a stance, if you test positive, it is a positive no mater if someone tied you down and injected it into you, it's a positive test and that's that.

BANNED FOR LIFE I SAY.
djc
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djc 6/20/2014 5:19am
6/20/2014 5:19am
Like someone else said I follow the ufc hard core. And sadly this is the same exact story almost all the busted guys use. "I was prescribed it". Or " I did not know". So in that aspect if James knew about it he should have made sure he was covered. Maybe someone checked for him and did a shitty job. Maybe he is telling the truth. Who knows.

But what kills me is the fact that if this is all about stupid adderal. Seriously? Oh no not adderal! Like that has made him win races. Why Dident he win Seattle then? I've taken it before. If anything it made me feel worse. What is the difference between that or drinking caffene or red bull?

What's a bigger advantage. Being on a factory team? Being able to hire Alden baker? Having works Suspenson? Look I agree if he broke the rules he is a dumb ass and some kind of punishment should come. But say we are going to suspend I him for x amount of races next year for adderal is silly. Imagine if 3 other rider did get busted now that is four guys. Next season is going to blow and I see this as a big fail if all the stars are suspended. This is not like foot ball where there are 50 all starts. We have five or six
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Trav138 6/20/2014 7:03am
6/20/2014 7:03am
Crush wrote:
Good point. Prescription means set dose, in theory wouldn't that mean your intake and test levels would remain constant. Therefore even with a prescription, if the...
Good point.

Prescription means set dose, in theory wouldn't that mean your intake and test levels would remain constant.

Therefore even with a prescription, if the tests show more, strictly speaking he's still deviated and that is a problem right?
Levels could vary. The half-life of adderall is very fast. So levels could vary drastically depending on when you took it and how much. Also if he was taking it daily the body would process it faster although more could be stored in his system. It all comes down to having a script and for how much. But he could take 2or 3x his prescribed dose and that would be hard to prove through urine. Just because it is processed so quickly and the half- life of the drug.
Crush
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Crush 6/20/2014 7:07am
6/20/2014 7:07am
Thanks!
gabrielmalinois 6/20/2014 7:30am
6/20/2014 7:30am
I think this is all very anticlimactic. I was expecting Lance Armstrong stuff and instead we got someone using the same PED that half of the kids playing little league are on. Here is an article about how it works and its rise in use in the NFL.


Adderall: NFL's new, trendy PED http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/adderall-nfls-new-trendy-ped-drug-st…



Adderall has moved from the college campuses into locker rooms, and professional sports are cracking down on its use.

The prescription drug that can sharpen focus and hone impulse control has become popular in NFL circles — at least seven players have received suspensions from the league office this season related to Adderall use.

And it appears some NFL players may be using, and abusing, Adderall just as some high school and college students do: by relying on it as a chemical aid to quickly help them cram and disseminate reams of complex information.

The difference isn’t all that striking, some psychologists say. Pulling an all-nighter to finish a complicated term paper can be equated to a player being forced to quickly recognize and react to the coverage on an NFL playing field.

To that end, “I think (Adderall) offers a tremendous benefit,” said Doug Gardner, a sports psychologist based in the San Francisco Bay Area who has worked with NFL and MLB teams. “Players often struggle in college and in the NFL because they have trouble digesting the information they need to use on the field.

“So, they look for a tiny pill or anything else that can help them focus and study better. That can make up for a lack of studying skills they didn’t develop early in life.”


As far as Adderall being recognized as a focus aid during a game, Bay Area Lab Co-Operative founder Victor Conte told FOXSports.com that drugs like Adderall — despite little literature to back up the effectiveness of such drugs in sports — are indeed considered performance-enhancing

rest of article http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/adderall-nfls-new-trendy-ped-drug-st…

smeg
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smeg 6/20/2014 7:47am
6/20/2014 7:47am
IMPOSSIBLE........ RocketSock has assured us it would be of no benefit in SX/MX.

.....and he's in med school......... LOL
gabrielmalinois 6/20/2014 8:03am
6/20/2014 8:03am
If Adderall won't make you faster but help you not wad up while riding at your fastest, shouldn't we make all riders take it. it seems James taking Adderall is not only safer for him but for everyone else as well. Why not just let them take Adderall under doctor's supervision?

Post a reply to: He was using it as a....