Triple Air Forks

bkent136
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Melbourne, FL, USA
Edited Date/Time 5/19/2014 7:36am
As you all know by now, the 2015 rmz450 comes with Showa Triple Air Forks.

Do any of you know how the triple air fork differs from the regular air forks, and how this would perform on the track? I read on Transworld that it offers a larger range of adjust-ability, but I have no idea what adjustments can be made on it.
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TeamGreen
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5/17/2014 11:21am
What does JS7 run?
Grizz
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5/17/2014 11:22am
Something way better than production forks...
Falcon
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5/17/2014 1:15pm
The right fork leg contains three air chambers; two are accessed at the top and provide the main "spring," presumably at different parts of the suspension stroke or for different speeds. The one at the bottom of the fork leg is a fine-tuning "anti-spring" or "balance spring" which actually softens the fork when pressure is applied (so I'm told.) The 3rd chamber is tuned for 0 psi but can be adjusted if so desired, up to 20 psi.
The main air chambers in this fork require very high pressure, so there will be a digital gauge/pump from Suzuki to handle the inflation duties.

The Shop

Beast666
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Englewood, CO, USA
5/17/2014 2:43pm
First of all forks in 1 way or another are "Air forks"

With a conventional fork with a spring it the oil level works as a second spring since you cannot compress a liquid as the for compresses the spring and the air in the for both compress The higher the oil level the smaller the chamber the stiffer the initial stroke gets on the fork.

With the Kayaba PSF forks on the Honda and Kawasaki 450's The metal spring is replaced by an air spring chamber This saves about 2 pounds of weight over a conventional fork. If the Air chamber has 35 psi in it with the forks extended when you compress the fork by 1/2 of its travel the pressure goes up to 70 at 3/4 travel it is now 140 at 7/8ths travel it is 280 pounds and just keeps going up from there "Boyles Law" The problem with this design is if the initial pressure is too low the forks will sink down in there stroke and yet will still give good bottom out performance yet if it is too high it will be too stiff throughout the entire stroke.

The SFF triple chamber fork has a high and low pressure chamber on the top of the leg the low pressure chamber acts the same as the air chamber in a conventional fork, the high pressure chamber works like a metal spring in a conventional fork. The chamber on the bottom acts as a negative or top out spring to control the fork at full extension by slowing it down based on its pressure.

With a conventional fork to change spring rate you have to take apart the fork to replace the springs. With an air fork air pressure is the spring and can be changed with just a few strokes of a pump. Air suspension is in it's infancy on a motocross bike, To really see the state of the art in air suspension just go and take a look at the forks and shocks on top of the line mountain bikes. They are very adjustable and very much reliable.

IMHO the Showa SFF is a step in the right direction.
Socket946
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5/17/2014 4:08pm
Falcon wrote:
The right fork leg contains three air chambers; two are accessed at the top and provide the main "spring," presumably at different parts of the suspension...
The right fork leg contains three air chambers; two are accessed at the top and provide the main "spring," presumably at different parts of the suspension stroke or for different speeds. The one at the bottom of the fork leg is a fine-tuning "anti-spring" or "balance spring" which actually softens the fork when pressure is applied (so I'm told.) The 3rd chamber is tuned for 0 psi but can be adjusted if so desired, up to 20 psi.
The main air chambers in this fork require very high pressure, so there will be a digital gauge/pump from Suzuki to handle the inflation duties.
Mother of god, are you saying you'll need to check 3 different chambers for air pressure before riding?
Beast666
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5/17/2014 4:25pm
Socket946 wrote:
Mother of god, are you saying you'll need to check 3 different chambers for air pressure before riding?
What's the big deal? You SHOULD be checking your tires before each and every ride now you are worried about the forks also??? I guess that cuts into your Xbox and nap times.
mx836
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;, BF
5/17/2014 5:37pm
Beast666 wrote:
What's the big deal? You [u]SHOULD [/u]be checking your tires before each and every ride now you are worried about the forks also??? I guess that...
What's the big deal? You SHOULD be checking your tires before each and every ride now you are worried about the forks also??? I guess that cuts into your Xbox and nap times.
Check the "May have bought my last jap bike" thread. This is largely the reason why everyone claims to hate the air fork. Most of which don't own one nor have ever ridden it. Sad, I know.
TeamGreen
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5/17/2014 6:39pm
Did someone say they were cutting my nap times?
Socket946
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5/17/2014 10:32pm
Beast666 wrote:
What's the big deal? You [u]SHOULD [/u]be checking your tires before each and every ride now you are worried about the forks also??? I guess that...
What's the big deal? You SHOULD be checking your tires before each and every ride now you are worried about the forks also??? I guess that cuts into your Xbox and nap times.
I don't own a xbox, but if you cut into my nap time, we're going to have a problem.
tek14
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Vantaa, FI
5/18/2014 10:03am
Beast666 wrote:
First of all forks in 1 way or another are "Air forks" With a conventional fork with a spring it the oil level works as a...
First of all forks in 1 way or another are "Air forks"

With a conventional fork with a spring it the oil level works as a second spring since you cannot compress a liquid as the for compresses the spring and the air in the for both compress The higher the oil level the smaller the chamber the stiffer the initial stroke gets on the fork.

With the Kayaba PSF forks on the Honda and Kawasaki 450's The metal spring is replaced by an air spring chamber This saves about 2 pounds of weight over a conventional fork. If the Air chamber has 35 psi in it with the forks extended when you compress the fork by 1/2 of its travel the pressure goes up to 70 at 3/4 travel it is now 140 at 7/8ths travel it is 280 pounds and just keeps going up from there "Boyles Law" The problem with this design is if the initial pressure is too low the forks will sink down in there stroke and yet will still give good bottom out performance yet if it is too high it will be too stiff throughout the entire stroke.

The SFF triple chamber fork has a high and low pressure chamber on the top of the leg the low pressure chamber acts the same as the air chamber in a conventional fork, the high pressure chamber works like a metal spring in a conventional fork. The chamber on the bottom acts as a negative or top out spring to control the fork at full extension by slowing it down based on its pressure.

With a conventional fork to change spring rate you have to take apart the fork to replace the springs. With an air fork air pressure is the spring and can be changed with just a few strokes of a pump. Air suspension is in it's infancy on a motocross bike, To really see the state of the art in air suspension just go and take a look at the forks and shocks on top of the line mountain bikes. They are very adjustable and very much reliable.

IMHO the Showa SFF is a step in the right direction.
Great post, thanks!
Anyone have photos of cut down SFF air forks yet?
TNL830
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Galt, CA, USA
5/18/2014 12:55pm
Beast666 wrote:
First of all forks in 1 way or another are "Air forks" With a conventional fork with a spring it the oil level works as a...
First of all forks in 1 way or another are "Air forks"

With a conventional fork with a spring it the oil level works as a second spring since you cannot compress a liquid as the for compresses the spring and the air in the for both compress The higher the oil level the smaller the chamber the stiffer the initial stroke gets on the fork.

With the Kayaba PSF forks on the Honda and Kawasaki 450's The metal spring is replaced by an air spring chamber This saves about 2 pounds of weight over a conventional fork. If the Air chamber has 35 psi in it with the forks extended when you compress the fork by 1/2 of its travel the pressure goes up to 70 at 3/4 travel it is now 140 at 7/8ths travel it is 280 pounds and just keeps going up from there "Boyles Law" The problem with this design is if the initial pressure is too low the forks will sink down in there stroke and yet will still give good bottom out performance yet if it is too high it will be too stiff throughout the entire stroke.

The SFF triple chamber fork has a high and low pressure chamber on the top of the leg the low pressure chamber acts the same as the air chamber in a conventional fork, the high pressure chamber works like a metal spring in a conventional fork. The chamber on the bottom acts as a negative or top out spring to control the fork at full extension by slowing it down based on its pressure.

With a conventional fork to change spring rate you have to take apart the fork to replace the springs. With an air fork air pressure is the spring and can be changed with just a few strokes of a pump. Air suspension is in it's infancy on a motocross bike, To really see the state of the art in air suspension just go and take a look at the forks and shocks on top of the line mountain bikes. They are very adjustable and very much reliable.

IMHO the Showa SFF is a step in the right direction.
tek14 wrote:
Great post, thanks!
Anyone have photos of cut down SFF air forks yet?




KazFu
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5/18/2014 1:51pm
TeamGreen wrote:
What does JS7 run?
He was running the Triple at vegas when it locked up on first lap.
jtiger12
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Forest H Ill, MD, USA
5/18/2014 1:52pm
From looking at this design, it seems to me this fork design is not susceptible to the blowout issues of the psf forks. Am I wrong? It looks as though the entire high pressure area is closed off from the outer seal. That's the only reason I won't buy a new bike with air forks. Nicks in the outer tube and you are looking at a couple hundred bucks per leg, and a miserable end to your riding day. I don't like driving 2 hours one way to the track knowing I don't have spare parts to run out the day
zehn
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5/18/2014 5:44pm
Beast666 wrote:
First of all forks in 1 way or another are "Air forks" With a conventional fork with a spring it the oil level works as a...
First of all forks in 1 way or another are "Air forks"

With a conventional fork with a spring it the oil level works as a second spring since you cannot compress a liquid as the for compresses the spring and the air in the for both compress The higher the oil level the smaller the chamber the stiffer the initial stroke gets on the fork.

With the Kayaba PSF forks on the Honda and Kawasaki 450's The metal spring is replaced by an air spring chamber This saves about 2 pounds of weight over a conventional fork. If the Air chamber has 35 psi in it with the forks extended when you compress the fork by 1/2 of its travel the pressure goes up to 70 at 3/4 travel it is now 140 at 7/8ths travel it is 280 pounds and just keeps going up from there "Boyles Law" The problem with this design is if the initial pressure is too low the forks will sink down in there stroke and yet will still give good bottom out performance yet if it is too high it will be too stiff throughout the entire stroke.

The SFF triple chamber fork has a high and low pressure chamber on the top of the leg the low pressure chamber acts the same as the air chamber in a conventional fork, the high pressure chamber works like a metal spring in a conventional fork. The chamber on the bottom acts as a negative or top out spring to control the fork at full extension by slowing it down based on its pressure.

With a conventional fork to change spring rate you have to take apart the fork to replace the springs. With an air fork air pressure is the spring and can be changed with just a few strokes of a pump. Air suspension is in it's infancy on a motocross bike, To really see the state of the art in air suspension just go and take a look at the forks and shocks on top of the line mountain bikes. They are very adjustable and very much reliable.

IMHO the Showa SFF is a step in the right direction.
Nice post. A lot of the trail and cross country bikes use air suspension, but as far as I know, downhill mountain bikes still use conventional springs.
Mike Oxmall
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5/18/2014 5:56pm
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just a few psi difference would be huge.
slipdog
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Nor Cal, CA, USA
5/18/2014 5:57pm
jtiger12 wrote:
From looking at this design, it seems to me this fork design is not susceptible to the blowout issues of the psf forks. Am I wrong...
From looking at this design, it seems to me this fork design is not susceptible to the blowout issues of the psf forks. Am I wrong? It looks as though the entire high pressure area is closed off from the outer seal. That's the only reason I won't buy a new bike with air forks. Nicks in the outer tube and you are looking at a couple hundred bucks per leg, and a miserable end to your riding day. I don't like driving 2 hours one way to the track knowing I don't have spare parts to run out the day
The outer chamber is still pressurized and sealed by the fork seal, but it is the low pressure chamber(5-20lbs). The inner sealed chamber holds closer to 150-175lbs so you shouldn't have the same problem as people with the collapsed PSF forks.
Darryl916
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5/18/2014 6:03pm Edited Date/Time 5/18/2014 6:14pm
https://youtu.be/Irl5SoHisdU

Triple rate should be amazing compared to the single rate stuff out now. My problem with the single rate air is the spring rate isn't as linear as a coil spring. The spring rate goes up as the fork is compressed more. I can feel it when I ride air forks, Initial stroke is vague. Deep in the stroke is too harsh.
Grizz
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5/18/2014 6:17pm
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just...
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just a few psi difference would be huge.
Yep, it happens.
wow123
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5/18/2014 8:04pm
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just...
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just a few psi difference would be huge.
Grizz wrote:
Yep, it happens.
you'll need nitrogen in them to stop temperature changing your rate

I've don't know how much it affects them as I've never had them
Grizz
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5/18/2014 8:21pm
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just...
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just a few psi difference would be huge.
Grizz wrote:
Yep, it happens.
wow123 wrote:
you'll need nitrogen in them to stop temperature changing your rate

I've don't know how much it affects them as I've never had them
Nitrogen still changes but it is less sensitive to temperature.

How would a regular guy fill their forks with nitrogen before every ride? I'm seriously asking lol
wow123
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5/18/2014 8:34pm
Grizz wrote:
Yep, it happens.
wow123 wrote:
you'll need nitrogen in them to stop temperature changing your rate

I've don't know how much it affects them as I've never had them
Grizz wrote:
Nitrogen still changes but it is less sensitive to temperature. How would a regular guy fill their forks with nitrogen before every ride? I'm seriously asking...
Nitrogen still changes but it is less sensitive to temperature.

How would a regular guy fill their forks with nitrogen before every ride? I'm seriously asking lol
I would imagine there's a market going to open up in the next few years, initially there might be at the track filling stations and then kits for individual riders, just speculating.

i'vr just put ni in my car tyres, but there are filling station at some gas stations and I live where its always fookin hot......right now 10 am 35+ c
Falcon
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Menifee, CA, USA
5/18/2014 8:52pm
Falcon wrote:
The right fork leg contains three air chambers; two are accessed at the top and provide the main "spring," presumably at different parts of the suspension...
The right fork leg contains three air chambers; two are accessed at the top and provide the main "spring," presumably at different parts of the suspension stroke or for different speeds. The one at the bottom of the fork leg is a fine-tuning "anti-spring" or "balance spring" which actually softens the fork when pressure is applied (so I'm told.) The 3rd chamber is tuned for 0 psi but can be adjusted if so desired, up to 20 psi.
The main air chambers in this fork require very high pressure, so there will be a digital gauge/pump from Suzuki to handle the inflation duties.
Socket946 wrote:
Mother of god, are you saying you'll need to check 3 different chambers for air pressure before riding?
Yes. Wink
Falcon
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5/18/2014 8:55pm
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just...
Anyone have any knowledge of/if the air pressure varying thru out the day with the bike in the sun or during a moto?..I would think just a few psi difference would be huge.
Air pressure increases in any fork due to temperature changes.

These new ones will have a higher air pressure than the current crop of air forks, so the increase in pressure may have less an impact.
TeamGreen
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5/18/2014 9:20pm
TeamGreen wrote:
What does JS7 run?
KazFu wrote:
He was running the Triple at vegas when it locked up on first lap.
Uh, Holeshot device?
Fraser
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Leics, GB
5/19/2014 2:18am
2nd season here with the 2013 crf air forks.
Touch wood I've not had a single seal leak, (keeping the seals clean with those short neoprene seal savers) or anything dramatic happen with them. When I first got them and it was all new I was always checking and adjusting pressures between and before motos. Yes the pressure may go up a bit during the day but I can't say I've ever felt a difference riding.

I'm not experiencing any loss of pressure between race meetings, it stood for months over the winter and pressure was the same when I got it in Spring. Truth is sometimes I forget to even check the pressure from one week to the next now. I'm sure I'm not the only one...
Beast666
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Englewood, CO, USA
5/19/2014 5:46am
Grizz wrote:
Nitrogen still changes but it is less sensitive to temperature. How would a regular guy fill their forks with nitrogen before every ride? I'm seriously asking...
Nitrogen still changes but it is less sensitive to temperature.

How would a regular guy fill their forks with nitrogen before every ride? I'm seriously asking lol
Nitrogen will change its pressure less due to the fact that it is a "Dry Gas" having a very small amount of water in it also Nitrogen has larger molecules so it does not pass as easy through the pores in rubber seals, shock bladders, tires, tubes.

With atmospheric air using a hand pump a person in the desert southwest will have less of a change than a rider on the east coast or areas with a higher relative humidity.

As for filling at the track with nitrogen you will need a small cylinder 5lb, Regulator, I would recommend that you change the output gauge in the regulator to an aircraft gauge as they are more accurate and a fill nozzle with a digital gauge. This set up should set you back $300-400 but once you have it you can always charge your buddies a few buck to charge there forks and shocks Wink
Darryl916
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Budds Creek, MD, USA
5/19/2014 7:26am
Local welding supply store could set you up with a nitrogen rig pretty easy.
Darryl916
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5/19/2014 7:36am

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