Time to change SX points structure?

mmcmx
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4/2/2014 3:53am
I'd like the race to be restarted too, if the rider I cheer for got a bad jump.
BobPA
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4/2/2014 4:16am
I think they should reverse the gate picks for all the guys who qualify. If James wins the heat like he always does then he gets...
I think they should reverse the gate picks for all the guys who qualify. If James wins the heat like he always does then he gets last gate pick and then they all go in reverse order so the quick guys have to make their way through the pack.
Then you would see nothing but sandbagging
RangerLee
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4/2/2014 6:29am
I think they should reverse the gate picks for all the guys who qualify. If James wins the heat like he always does then he gets...
I think they should reverse the gate picks for all the guys who qualify. If James wins the heat like he always does then he gets last gate pick and then they all go in reverse order so the quick guys have to make their way through the pack.
BobPA wrote:
Then you would see nothing but sandbagging
We have seen this before:

4/2/2014 7:32am
what about something like local level racing subtract the 2 worst races.
i would imagine we would have a nice tight point battle if that was the case right now.

The Shop

4/2/2014 12:48pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2014 12:55pm
KennyT wrote:
I'm okay with the main points as they are, I wish they would award points for the heats, semis, n LCQ Heat race : 1- 15...
I'm okay with the main points as they are, I wish they would award points for the heats, semis, n LCQ

Heat race :
1- 15
2- 12
3- 10
4 - 8

Semis

1- 7
2- 6
3- 5
4- 4
5- 3

LCQ
1- 2
2- 1

Or something like this......make the qualifying races a little more exciting and for riders behind in the points chase it has the potential to allow a rider to narrow the gap by going for heat wins.
This would interest me.

Take last weekend. James said he didn't pass RV in the heat so he wouldn't give away some of his lines. If points were on the line he would go for it I presume so would Villopoto have had something for him in the main? Either using the knowledge to motor away or use it to know where to defend himself?

Or how about the Barcia/Peick incident. I bet it would go over better had there been points on the line and not just gate pick for the main.\

*Don't subtract races. This is motorsports. It's not just about the best rider but also the best bike/team/mechanic. You don't win in motorsports by yourself. It's the complete package that wins a championship. I should know, I've sat patiently while Newey and Vettel have destroyed everyone at Maranello and Fernando in the Ferrari the last few years even WITH Red Bull having mechanicals. What happens when a championship chase is ruined by someone throwing away a race and winning handily because they get to throw one away? i.e. Red Bull, engine failure, Korea. Taking it to the last race of the season in Abu Dhabi. Take that mechanical out (he was leading) and the championship is done a round early.
rollingtach
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4/2/2014 1:44pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2014 1:53pm
On the surface, points from the Heats/ Semi and LCQ looks to be a fair idea. They chould also award 10 bonus points to the rider with the most wins at the end of the year. Back in 2010 midway through the season, RV had to win all the remaining races in order to win the championship from Dungey. If he was able to capture a 10 point bonus for the most wins in the season, he might not have had to push it so hard at St. Louis where he broke his leg. Even after dropping out after St. Louis RV had 7 wins for the season as opposed to RD's 6.
Although consistency should still be a big piece of any points structure.
4/2/2014 1:51pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2014 1:53pm
On the surface, points from the Heats/ Semi and LCQ looks to be a fair idea. They chould also award 10 bonus points to the rider...
On the surface, points from the Heats/ Semi and LCQ looks to be a fair idea. They chould also award 10 bonus points to the rider with the most wins at the end of the year. Back in 2010 midway through the season, RV had to win all the remaining races in order to win the championship from Dungey. If he was able to capture a 10 point bonus for the most wins in the season, he might not have had to push it so hard at St. Louis where he broke his leg. Even after dropping out after St. Louis RV had 7 wins for the season as opposed to RD's 6.
Although consistency should still be a big piece of any points structure.
Then forget calling the main event the "main event", and just call the SX series a circus.
You should be given points for how you finish in the main event, everything else is QUALIFYING. Someone could argue for points given as finish (1 point for first, 2 for second and so on) and the champion being the one with the lowest points, that would be far more logical then your fantasy.
I think the winner should be rewarded more then the 2nd rider and so on (ie. the way it is) but maybe we should change it so RV doesn't snap his leg again. WOW
4/2/2014 2:47pm
I think they should reverse the gate picks for all the guys who qualify. If James wins the heat like he always does then he gets...
I think they should reverse the gate picks for all the guys who qualify. If James wins the heat like he always does then he gets last gate pick and then they all go in reverse order so the quick guys have to make their way through the pack.
BobPA wrote:
Then you would see nothing but sandbagging
RangerLee wrote:
We have seen this before:

I pretty much just brought it up so someone would post that video. RJ is the man.
mark_swart
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4/2/2014 4:34pm
I love the idea of a point or two for a heat race win. But not for the semis or LCQ, unless you are going to pay points in a format like Kenny T suggested.

Have to agree on no dropped races. The semi's seem to do a good job making sure everyone is in the main who needs to be, and I think that's enough of a safety net. I think building in a DNF/DNS at the elite level would hurt credibility and be confusing for casual viewers.
Mtek
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4/2/2014 4:42pm
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as costly.
GuyB
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4/2/2014 4:43pm
Mtek wrote:
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as...
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as costly.
I'm not a fan of the idea. Being smart and consistent is part of the deal.
gsxrcr28
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4/2/2014 5:09pm
Mtek wrote:
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as...
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as costly.
GuyB wrote:
I'm not a fan of the idea. Being smart and consistent is part of the deal.
Get's boring for the fans though, because you never know for sure if a championship leader is trying to win or not.
For example could RC have beaten Reed when he lost 5 in a row? We will never know.
A rider can always use that as an excuse. (not saying RV or RC did)

Something more similar to MotoGP's scoring would be better. IMO

Even though this may not make much of a difference this season, I think something like this would be better.

1. 25
2. 20
3. 18
4. 16
5. 14
6. 12
7. 10
8. 9
9. 8
10. 7
11. 6
12. 5
13. 4
14. 3
15. 2
16. 1
KennyT
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Fantasy
4/2/2014 5:10pm
Someone mentioned that the heat races are qualifying.

In fact they are races. Qualifying takes place in the afternoon before the show begins much like any Motorsport I have been to.
Qualifying is used to make the night show based on being top 40 in timed laps. Most of u I am sure realize this but others think that heats n semis are qualifying so I figured some need a little help.

They are called heat "races" because riders line up just as they would in a main event and race. At least some do, the ones in a transfer spot generally take it easy and the ones outside the top ten are usually just trying to learn the track.

There is nothing wrong with earning points for racing in a heat , semi , LCQ or main.....they are all races. My reason for liking the possibility of points is to see more "racing" throughout the event and not riders riding conservative once they are in a transfer position . Also when one rider gets out to a big points lead it would allow for the possibility of others closing the gap by going for heat race wins.

And for those that do not like change I understand that. But this is SX and not outdoor nationals. It is a put on like a circus and for that reason they should be able to alter the format to make it as entertaining as possible.
jonesaustin
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4/2/2014 5:18pm
i say everyone gets a throw away OR he who wins the most first place finishes trumps points.
4/2/2014 6:00pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2014 6:00pm
Canerat wrote:
For 2014 Formula 1 are trying a new concept whereby for the final round they award 1st place double points. Its places huge value on 1st...
For 2014 Formula 1 are trying a new concept whereby for the final round they award 1st place double points. Its places huge value on 1st position.

If this was the case this year in SX and if Stewart keeps his win streak alive it would force Villopotto to race for wins and not play it safe. The final round would sure be a must win situation....

Something to elaborate on.
That seems like you'd be punishing the points leader, though, since he comes into the last round with extra pressure to begin with and generally struggles to perform like he did earlier in the championship. Is it fair?

Then because of this you might have riders sandbagging the c'ship itself to make sure they go into the last round even in points with their competition, or even behind, to alleviate the pressure. Wait a second...I like it.

(but also let's not forget that RV has a talent for wrapping these things up before the last round.)
4/2/2014 6:07pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2014 6:10pm
How bout...every 3rd round, the win is worth 5 extra points.

(+ A1 and Vegas)
mx 219
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4/2/2014 7:16pm
how about we dont change anything..when did the points system break?

Its fine as it is. If you want to win the title or be closer in points ride smart.
Prairieboy43
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Edmonton, AB, CA
4/2/2014 7:31pm
How bout...every 3rd round, the win is worth 5 extra points.

(+ A1 and Vegas)
Plus allow 1 mulligan.Woohoo Woohoo Woohoo
TannerMxer
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4/2/2014 8:28pm
I think we should look towards an Indycar points structure.

2pts for "pole" or qualifying 1st
2pts for most laps lead in the main
1pt for holeshot
1pt for leading at least one lap

Main Event Point Payout
1st - 25pts
2nd - 23pts
3rd - 21pts
4th - 19pts
5th - 17pts
6th - 16pts
7th - 15pts
8th - 14pts
9th - 13pts
10th - 12pts
11th - 11pts
12th - 10pts
13th - 9pts
14th - 8pts
15th - 7pts
16th - 6pts
17th - 5pts
18th - 4pts
19th - 3pts
20th - 2pts
21st - 1pts
22nd - 1pts
Uncleof2
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Silverdale, WA, USA
4/2/2014 8:52pm
How about we wait until 12 of 17 rounds is done and then make it that the guys in 2nd through 10th get a extra 5 points
per win until they catch up and if need be throw out 1 or 2 races if the guys get to far behind. And then subtract 2 points
per position for the leader and then if he is still in the lead make him start the race facing backwords until the gate drops.
Yes, if we could do that I'm sure a few riders in history could have more championships.
kongols
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4/2/2014 8:56pm Edited Date/Time 4/2/2014 9:10pm
Uncleof2 wrote:
How about we wait until 12 of 17 rounds is done and then make it that the guys in 2nd through 10th get a extra 5...
How about we wait until 12 of 17 rounds is done and then make it that the guys in 2nd through 10th get a extra 5 points
per win until they catch up and if need be throw out 1 or 2 races if the guys get to far behind. And then subtract 2 points
per position for the leader and then if he is still in the lead make him start the race facing backwords until the gate drops.
Yes, if we could do that I'm sure a few riders in history could have more championships.
Are you RV`s blood relative or did you marry in to family?
gsxrcr28
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4/2/2014 9:16pm
Uncleof2 wrote:
How about we wait until 12 of 17 rounds is done and then make it that the guys in 2nd through 10th get a extra 5...
How about we wait until 12 of 17 rounds is done and then make it that the guys in 2nd through 10th get a extra 5 points
per win until they catch up and if need be throw out 1 or 2 races if the guys get to far behind. And then subtract 2 points
per position for the leader and then if he is still in the lead make him start the race facing backwords until the gate drops.
Yes, if we could do that I'm sure a few riders in history could have more championships.
Nobodies taking anything away from Ryan's accomplishments, he has performed better than anyone. There is many different scoring structures in racing, and the discussion is about which of those provides the most excitement for the fans. There is a very high chance Ryan would win the title with any other organizations structure. Most fans just want to see riders fighting for wins and a close fight for the championship. It's just opinions, and it's possible we already have the best point structure in all of racing.
rebus
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4/2/2014 9:25pm
socal50+ wrote:
Maybe its time for more of a premium in points for winning. How about 30 points for first then the current points 25,22,20,19... on down to...
Maybe its time for more of a premium in points for winning. How about 30 points for first then the current points 25,22,20,19... on down to 21st. Then maybe to keep the heats interesting give 1 point for first only in each heat. This would push guys a little more for wins and not just being consistent. Any ideas?
I like the points system the way it is. It keeps it close enough so that there are usually a few contenders toward the end. A premium of points for wins would take that away if you had one rider dominating.
rebus
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4/2/2014 9:30pm
Mtek wrote:
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as...
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as costly.
That's silly.

If there are x amount of races, then the rider with most points for those races is the winner.

Why change that? If a rider has 1,1,2,5,7 scores and another rider has 2,2,1,2,20 scores, the guy with less overall points on the season would win the title. That doesn't seem to fit in withe the spirit of competition when you add in extra rules like that.
Uncleof2
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4/2/2014 11:02pm
kongols wrote:
Are you RV`s blood relative or did you marry in to family?
I married into the family before Ryan was born. All our kids grew up together and all the cousins are very close. We keep
in contact with Ryan usually every week and my wife his aunt and I are very proud of our nephew. We have went through
the ups and downs of racing with Ryan and his family and we will be there when its all said and done.
honda123
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4/3/2014 12:10am
okay so they change the points format for next season, i guarantee all you fools will be on here with threads like. IF they didn't change the points............

it worked for for all these years so why change it?
Seamorbutts
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4/3/2014 12:14am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2014 12:15am
Mtek wrote:
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as...
I am sure there is a downside, but what about a rider being able to eliminate his worst race? One DNF or crash wouldn't be as costly.
GuyB wrote:
I'm not a fan of the idea. Being smart and consistent is part of the deal.
Don't matter how smart a rider is, stuff still happens that they can't prevent, or avoid. It's called getting the shitty end of the stick.
Seamorbutts
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4/3/2014 12:17am Edited Date/Time 4/3/2014 12:18am
kongols wrote:
Are you RV`s blood relative or did you marry in to family?
Uncleof2 wrote:
I married into the family before Ryan was born. All our kids grew up together and all the cousins are very close. We keep in contact...
I married into the family before Ryan was born. All our kids grew up together and all the cousins are very close. We keep
in contact with Ryan usually every week and my wife his aunt and I are very proud of our nephew. We have went through
the ups and downs of racing with Ryan and his family and we will be there when its all said and done.
Just curious, does Ryan ever read the shit posted about him ever? Also, his Grandpa seems a little, how do i say, crazy? Lol
Mxdnusa
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4/3/2014 4:50am
I think the points leader should have to ride a quad until second place catches up. Or is it third place?
Beast666
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4/3/2014 6:05am
mx 219 wrote:
how about we dont change anything..when did the points system break? Its fine as it is. If you want to win the title or be closer...
how about we dont change anything..when did the points system break?

Its fine as it is. If you want to win the title or be closer in points ride smart.
+ 1,000,000

There is nothing wrong with the points system. If JS7 had more consistent finishes he would be in the points lead right now. The reason RV2 is in this position season after season is the fact that he rides smart and does not do any thing that might cause a crash or a DNF just to get to the top step of the podium.

Just look at A1 if JS7 would have settled in for 2nd place and finished the same as in all the other races there would only be around a 10 point difference between RV2 and JS7 going into the race this weekend. When people bitch that RV2 is collecting points is forgetting the big picture of winning the championship for 4 straight years and the big bonus check that goes along with it. If I was in the same position I would be boing the same collecting as many points as possible without throwing it away by disconnecting my brain.

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