Whats up with Tickle?

3/24/2014 5:27pm
I'm just glad Tickle's injuries weren't any worse than they are.

You guys can argue the myths, what ifs, opinions, and facts all you want.

Praying for a complete and timely recovery for Tickle.
rcannon
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3/24/2014 5:47pm
As far as any studies..Isn't it like any other medical study? If your taking the medication and cant find info about it, your in it.
mx317
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3/24/2014 5:59pm
Wouldn't T7 be below where the neck brace sits? I use the Atlas and it is made different than a Leatt or Alpinestar on the back. It is a split design that sits on either side of the spine and not on it.
Woobia 22
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3/24/2014 6:04pm
Best wishes to Mr Tickle and Family, you were the riding very consistently it looked like you and the bike had finally clicked. Make sure you come back when you are feeling ready, fuk the team or sponsors at this time, YOU make the decision.

I have heard from some friends that they have broken bones in their backs right where the brace finishes and also collarbones.

When my son had his fatal crash he didn't have his Leatt on and everyone was amazed as even while racing a couple of riders commented that he always, always trained and raced in one, he had 2. But when he crashed he hit his head on the triple clamps and virtually passed away instantly, his goggles were not even broken nor his helmet in fact his brother raced in it some months later. I asked the Surgeon how was his neck and despite swelling he was pretty confident it was ok. Everyone is different.

The Shop

Mike Oxmall
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3/24/2014 6:08pm
Woobia 22 wrote:
Best wishes to Mr Tickle and Family, you were the riding very consistently it looked like you and the bike had finally clicked. Make sure you...
Best wishes to Mr Tickle and Family, you were the riding very consistently it looked like you and the bike had finally clicked. Make sure you come back when you are feeling ready, fuk the team or sponsors at this time, YOU make the decision.

I have heard from some friends that they have broken bones in their backs right where the brace finishes and also collarbones.

When my son had his fatal crash he didn't have his Leatt on and everyone was amazed as even while racing a couple of riders commented that he always, always trained and raced in one, he had 2. But when he crashed he hit his head on the triple clamps and virtually passed away instantly, his goggles were not even broken nor his helmet in fact his brother raced in it some months later. I asked the Surgeon how was his neck and despite swelling he was pretty confident it was ok. Everyone is different.
That's pretty heavy 22....so sorry about that.
cd0583
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3/24/2014 6:20pm
yea atlas doesnt stick out 6 inches like the other neck braces...atlas looks like a decent choice
brimx153
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3/24/2014 6:35pm
Get well soon Broc, such a same you were on a roll , be intressting will he wear a brace again , everyone has the opinion on them , i dont like them at all , JMO, but each to there own , i know Ricky , does not like them , so be intressing will he have any part in asking he to wear or not wear one , in the future ,, also do people think strong minded team owners , like REED , if you ride on 22 , would he say take off the brace in a contract ??? the way REED feels about them i could see that happening , most important thing get well soon broc
3/24/2014 7:05pm
JM485 wrote:
Man, I really hope that isn't true, and if so hopefully it is not as bad as it sounds. Not to start WWIII here but it...
Man, I really hope that isn't true, and if so hopefully it is not as bad as it sounds. Not to start WWIII here but it really seems like Ryno is jumping to conclusions pretty quickly, maybe he should wait until medical professionals give their opinion.
flyinb501 wrote:
Lol Ryno is such an idiot...
Rewindcaz wrote:
Yep, and unfortunately Wilson is learning this the hard way.
Wilson getting tired and fading doesn't say much for crying ryans training program, Wilson isn't the first guy to jump up to the 450s but he is fading the hardest.
TJ 755
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3/24/2014 7:18pm


IDK what brace he wears but it could reach if he really got folded.
Sad deal for him I was really pulling for him to get up there and maybe podium but the SX attrition continues. So many guys out that the 1st semi looked like an lcq.
as a side note my son switched to an atlas from leatt cause it dug into his spine and he hated. The atlas kinda splits the difference and rests on the shoulder blades. My daughter still uses a-star but I think we will switch her up. I do not use one. cant stand 'em but the wife makes em.

GET WELL TICkLEBERRY!
BobPA
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3/24/2014 7:20pm
Wait for it......."luckily he had his neck brace on, or it would have been WAY worse"! I bet he's next in line of a long list...
Wait for it......."luckily he had his neck brace on, or it would have been WAY worse"! I bet he's next in line of a long list of top professionals to stop wearing it, speaks volumes on what " the worlds best sx racers" choose to use or not!
I'll bet you $100 he still wears it
hillbilly
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3/24/2014 7:24pm
It is easy to understand for me,

The body has been taking licks since some prehistoric animal grabbed a club toting caveman and stuck him in the mud headfirst,

It learned to "hinge" a certain way,the neckbrace hinges your spine in a unatural way as the head tucks down into the sternum,

Putting to much stress in one area,

It may work if you were drop straight down ,vertical ,and transfer force to shoulder,collarbone area.

Where are the tests that say this thing is a "brace" because I would not call it that,at all.

Who did the tests? That must be one crazy muther.

I'd rather stick my head thru a boat trailer tire tube and pump it up after strapping my helmet on than a 400 buck shovel.
JM485
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3/24/2014 7:31pm
hillbilly wrote:
It is easy to understand for me, The body has been taking licks since some prehistoric animal grabbed a club toting caveman and stuck him in...
It is easy to understand for me,

The body has been taking licks since some prehistoric animal grabbed a club toting caveman and stuck him in the mud headfirst,

It learned to "hinge" a certain way,the neckbrace hinges your spine in a unatural way as the head tucks down into the sternum,

Putting to much stress in one area,

It may work if you were drop straight down ,vertical ,and transfer force to shoulder,collarbone area.

Where are the tests that say this thing is a "brace" because I would not call it that,at all.

Who did the tests? That must be one crazy muther.

I'd rather stick my head thru a boat trailer tire tube and pump it up after strapping my helmet on than a 400 buck shovel.
I believe that is exactly what they will not help with, straight down impacts to the head resulting in compression. Can people at least make some attempt to check facts before they post?

Some of you guys should read this:

http://www.dirtrider.com/features/the-neck-brace-should-you-wear-one/
FCTRY
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3/24/2014 8:42pm Edited Date/Time 3/24/2014 8:43pm
Any individual incident, or even a collection of incidents, only represents anecdotal evidence. It is impossible to say after an incident how it would have been better or worse given different circumstances, it's all purely guessing. You could be wearing a brace and break your neck in a 1000 pieces, and the guy next to you could have the same crash and walk away just fine without one, even that doesn't necessarily mean the brace didn't help. I've gone over the bars midair onto rock hard dirt over a 60 foot jump and walked away with scratches, and then crashed at half that speed and almost died on the track. No two crashes are alike, even if it's looks like they are. The only way to really quantify whether or not neck braces help would be to conduct a massive study of equally sized groups of riders, with one group using and the other not using braces, and compare injury rates over a long period of time. Even then, there would be numerous factors that it would be impossible to control for. How anyone has formed a strong opinion one way or the other I'm not quite sure, then again this sport is full of people who seem to be completely convinced they can predict the future, so maybe I shouldn't be surprised.
3/24/2014 10:02pm
K. Watson shared some pretty detailed info about Broc on the PulpMX Show on the 24th. Listen to the end of the show. They put a column in his back to stabilize it. It was a compression fracture. They are trying to get him back in the US in the next few days.
Given'er
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3/24/2014 10:14pm
I was wearing a Leatt when I was high-sided and torpedoed my head into the ground in 2011. Nasty burst fracture to T7, right at the tail end of my brace. Doctors claimed it burst due to the first relief area at the base of the brace. If I wasn't wearing it, it may have been worse or better, I will never know. Had surgery following day to remove the fragments from my spine, installed two permanent rods and 4 screws. Walking again but not riding anything...but my wife. At 46, doctors tell me I can only do 85 year old guy sports from now on. Still lots of daily pain. I think of riding everyday...could be worse.

Sounds like Broc got even luckier. I hope he heals up to ride again, he was doing really well. It is a vicious sport.
Radical
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3/24/2014 10:30pm
Woobia 22 wrote:
Best wishes to Mr Tickle and Family, you were the riding very consistently it looked like you and the bike had finally clicked. Make sure you...
Best wishes to Mr Tickle and Family, you were the riding very consistently it looked like you and the bike had finally clicked. Make sure you come back when you are feeling ready, fuk the team or sponsors at this time, YOU make the decision.

I have heard from some friends that they have broken bones in their backs right where the brace finishes and also collarbones.

When my son had his fatal crash he didn't have his Leatt on and everyone was amazed as even while racing a couple of riders commented that he always, always trained and raced in one, he had 2. But when he crashed he hit his head on the triple clamps and virtually passed away instantly, his goggles were not even broken nor his helmet in fact his brother raced in it some months later. I asked the Surgeon how was his neck and despite swelling he was pretty confident it was ok. Everyone is different.
I can't imagine how hard that must be. My condolences.
3/24/2014 10:46pm Edited Date/Time 3/24/2014 11:00pm
I think some should review and learn the basic concept of a Moment, in the engineering sense. Basically...what we motorheads know as torque...is a moment. A force acting about a center point creating a twisting load.

A neck brace is designed to protect the weaker, smaller bones in the neck..specifically C5 below the facet joint. If you rock your head back, feel the joint in your neck where most of the bend is. That is the facet joint. The C5 below the facet joint, and the C4 above will bear impact. The moment created by an impact will concentrate on each side of that pivot when bones contact after range of motion is exceeded.

If you have a 500# impulse to the forehead, perpendicular to the spine axis, that force acts about 5" from the facet joint pivot. The bones in the neck come together in compression probably .5." from the pivot. That means the forces get multiplied about 10 fold. You are talking thousands of psi at the contact point. Not hard to crush and break things... That is how necks get broken from the feared head back blow. Now...the bones above C4 and below C5 are not fused...so it is more complex than this...but this is just a simplification to demonstrate the concept.

Now...when you add a strut down the back, the lever works the other way. The end of the strut is about 9" from the facet joint pivot. Let me help you with the math. Balance the moments. Basic engineering mechanics.

500# * 5" = "X" * 9"
X = 277#

Without a neck brace...you get thousands of psi between the C4 and C5. With a brace...you have hundreds of pounds of force acting laterally to the larger and stronger thoracic spine bones. In reality, the strut flexes, so the load is spread across the whole strut. You basically have an integration problem applied to a cantilevered beam. The loads on the back are VERY low. If an impact is strong enough that the reacted load down the strut is large enough to brake your back from the lateral load applied by a flimsy piece of plastic, then you were dead any way. A load that will create a fracture when reacted across a 9" lever arm will simply explode the C5 when reacted across a 1/2" lever arm.

Can a brace "cause" a T7 fracture. The weakest link breaks first. If can see how in a huge impact with a brace, the load to the back could cause a fracture point to shift from T12, 11, 10 up to T7 because of that added load. But what on earth do you think would have happened at your C5 without the brace, when it sees 20x the contact forces because the lever arm reacting the moment is so short?

The net moment which comes from the blow to the forehead has to be balanced. When you want to tighten a bigger bolt...you us a bigger wrench. If you want to react a load wiht the lowest force...you use a larger lever arm to react it. The natural lever arm about the facet joint to so short.
drmarkr
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3/24/2014 11:49pm
I think some should review and learn the basic concept of a Moment, in the engineering sense. Basically...what we motorheads know as torque...is a moment. A...
I think some should review and learn the basic concept of a Moment, in the engineering sense. Basically...what we motorheads know as torque...is a moment. A force acting about a center point creating a twisting load.

A neck brace is designed to protect the weaker, smaller bones in the neck..specifically C5 below the facet joint. If you rock your head back, feel the joint in your neck where most of the bend is. That is the facet joint. The C5 below the facet joint, and the C4 above will bear impact. The moment created by an impact will concentrate on each side of that pivot when bones contact after range of motion is exceeded.

If you have a 500# impulse to the forehead, perpendicular to the spine axis, that force acts about 5" from the facet joint pivot. The bones in the neck come together in compression probably .5." from the pivot. That means the forces get multiplied about 10 fold. You are talking thousands of psi at the contact point. Not hard to crush and break things... That is how necks get broken from the feared head back blow. Now...the bones above C4 and below C5 are not fused...so it is more complex than this...but this is just a simplification to demonstrate the concept.

Now...when you add a strut down the back, the lever works the other way. The end of the strut is about 9" from the facet joint pivot. Let me help you with the math. Balance the moments. Basic engineering mechanics.

500# * 5" = "X" * 9"
X = 277#

Without a neck brace...you get thousands of psi between the C4 and C5. With a brace...you have hundreds of pounds of force acting laterally to the larger and stronger thoracic spine bones. In reality, the strut flexes, so the load is spread across the whole strut. You basically have an integration problem applied to a cantilevered beam. The loads on the back are VERY low. If an impact is strong enough that the reacted load down the strut is large enough to brake your back from the lateral load applied by a flimsy piece of plastic, then you were dead any way. A load that will create a fracture when reacted across a 9" lever arm will simply explode the C5 when reacted across a 1/2" lever arm.

Can a brace "cause" a T7 fracture. The weakest link breaks first. If can see how in a huge impact with a brace, the load to the back could cause a fracture point to shift from T12, 11, 10 up to T7 because of that added load. But what on earth do you think would have happened at your C5 without the brace, when it sees 20x the contact forces because the lever arm reacting the moment is so short?

The net moment which comes from the blow to the forehead has to be balanced. When you want to tighten a bigger bolt...you us a bigger wrench. If you want to react a load wiht the lowest force...you use a larger lever arm to react it. The natural lever arm about the facet joint to so short.
You're seriously trying to use physics to explain to these guys why a neck brace makes sense?

Get real.....these are the guys that spend every available (and then some) dollar on the latest graphics/gear/sprocket/pipe, in the hope that it will make them faster.....and do so because that's what RyanChadJamesTreyKenny use. If all the pro's were wearing braces, they'd all be wearing them as well. As their hero's decide to chuck them, so are they. And then they'll come here to post about "studies that show they break your back!!"

Wear one if you want. Don't wear one if you don't. There simply aren't going to be any well designed clinical studies that prove/disprove their value.

MR
colonel
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La Massana, AD
3/25/2014 12:04am
Hughes I lost respect for when he starting coming out with the comments he has over the last 16 months or so on twitter and watching some of his training video's. While I have no doubt his on track riding training is good I have very little faith in his off bike training. Technique is wrong in so many video's to begin with if you know what you looking for and I really doubt anything is periodized. Then his actual intellectual knowledge is what got to me, or lack there of.

He made a tweet during X-Games a year or so ago about a certain advert being a load of shit and how can they claim that. I replied to him his tweet was wrong and that the product was in fact a very good recovery product.

He went on to tell me I was knew nothing about what I was talking about and that he knows its bullshit. I then sent him 3 links with the scientific validation and test studies and asked him if he knew about this? He told me he doesnt have time to argue with me and he knows what he is talking about yet a proven study told us otherwise in many test subjects.

After that I laugh at his theories and claims now and is always looking for attention for some reason or another.
colonel
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3/25/2014 12:07am
I think some should review and learn the basic concept of a Moment, in the engineering sense. Basically...what we motorheads know as torque...is a moment. A...
I think some should review and learn the basic concept of a Moment, in the engineering sense. Basically...what we motorheads know as torque...is a moment. A force acting about a center point creating a twisting load.

A neck brace is designed to protect the weaker, smaller bones in the neck..specifically C5 below the facet joint. If you rock your head back, feel the joint in your neck where most of the bend is. That is the facet joint. The C5 below the facet joint, and the C4 above will bear impact. The moment created by an impact will concentrate on each side of that pivot when bones contact after range of motion is exceeded.

If you have a 500# impulse to the forehead, perpendicular to the spine axis, that force acts about 5" from the facet joint pivot. The bones in the neck come together in compression probably .5." from the pivot. That means the forces get multiplied about 10 fold. You are talking thousands of psi at the contact point. Not hard to crush and break things... That is how necks get broken from the feared head back blow. Now...the bones above C4 and below C5 are not fused...so it is more complex than this...but this is just a simplification to demonstrate the concept.

Now...when you add a strut down the back, the lever works the other way. The end of the strut is about 9" from the facet joint pivot. Let me help you with the math. Balance the moments. Basic engineering mechanics.

500# * 5" = "X" * 9"
X = 277#

Without a neck brace...you get thousands of psi between the C4 and C5. With a brace...you have hundreds of pounds of force acting laterally to the larger and stronger thoracic spine bones. In reality, the strut flexes, so the load is spread across the whole strut. You basically have an integration problem applied to a cantilevered beam. The loads on the back are VERY low. If an impact is strong enough that the reacted load down the strut is large enough to brake your back from the lateral load applied by a flimsy piece of plastic, then you were dead any way. A load that will create a fracture when reacted across a 9" lever arm will simply explode the C5 when reacted across a 1/2" lever arm.

Can a brace "cause" a T7 fracture. The weakest link breaks first. If can see how in a huge impact with a brace, the load to the back could cause a fracture point to shift from T12, 11, 10 up to T7 because of that added load. But what on earth do you think would have happened at your C5 without the brace, when it sees 20x the contact forces because the lever arm reacting the moment is so short?

The net moment which comes from the blow to the forehead has to be balanced. When you want to tighten a bigger bolt...you us a bigger wrench. If you want to react a load wiht the lowest force...you use a larger lever arm to react it. The natural lever arm about the facet joint to so short.
drmarkr wrote:
You're seriously trying to use physics to explain to these guys why a neck brace makes sense? Get real.....these are the guys that spend every available...
You're seriously trying to use physics to explain to these guys why a neck brace makes sense?

Get real.....these are the guys that spend every available (and then some) dollar on the latest graphics/gear/sprocket/pipe, in the hope that it will make them faster.....and do so because that's what RyanChadJamesTreyKenny use. If all the pro's were wearing braces, they'd all be wearing them as well. As their hero's decide to chuck them, so are they. And then they'll come here to post about "studies that show they break your back!!"

Wear one if you want. Don't wear one if you don't. There simply aren't going to be any well designed clinical studies that prove/disprove their value.

MR
I agree with DrMark here. If there is no validation there is no proof and if you going to crash hard enough to break your neck a brace is not going to protect you imho.

Maybe its a mental safety issue for the rider to have confidence but it doesnt seem like there any less broken back/necks since the braces came on the market vs when there were none on the market.
3/25/2014 1:44am
The empirical data that neck braces help is pretty spotty. But the data that they HURT...is even weaker. To me, there are two downsides to wearing a brace:

1. The can opener effect. This is scary. Catch the strut when sliding on your back...and now the brace is trying to pop off your head. The solution to this is easy. Make sure the strut is not exposed by wearing the strap, or tucking it into a mating chest protector. I also believe the current generation braces are designed so the strut will fail if loaded this way.
2. They can impede your ability to tuck your head to your chest when nosing in. If you have a lot of action and board sport experience...you are probably good at knowing when to stay extended..and when to tuck, go fetal, and rotate. A brace can impede the tuck and roll reflex. No one ever talks about this...and it is a big deal. The idea that you are just along from the ride when you crash is nonsense. There is a lot you can do to manipulate your body if you have the experience.

I know damn well that in most cases...it wont help...but in some it will. What if you just barely take a hard enough hit to brake your neck. Just barely. If you had a brace on...just barely could become not enough. To me, it is one of those can't hurt, might help things.
Fearo
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BE
3/25/2014 2:35am
Not to be argumentative, but it has actually been proven that these neck braces have been the cause of dozens of broken backs. I have no...
Not to be argumentative, but it has actually been proven that these neck braces have been the cause of dozens of broken backs. I have no idea if that's what happened to Tickle. I am in no way saying whether they are safer or not. I just know for a fact that these neck braces have broken backs because of where it sits on the back. Again, I am not arguing with anyone. I am not trying to say whos right or wrong. Just thought it was something to think about
No, that has not been proven. Nor will that ever be proven.
FIREfish148
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Kirkland, WA, USA
3/25/2014 5:37am
I would personally get an atlas brace if I was in the market for one. Those Foam EVS neck doughnuts seemed to be a safer bet than any of these new rigid ones. Anyone remember these? Back in 2000-2002 they were super popular. I remember buying one for 30 bucks.
FIREfish148
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3/25/2014 5:43am Edited Date/Time 3/25/2014 5:43am
What about a re-enforced version of this? Like with the mold of a leatt? Maybe a stiffer foam at the base that contoured to your shoulders. I would honestly rock one of these things before I would touch a leatt. Even though I hardly ride anymore haha.
Crush
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3/25/2014 5:44am
I would personally get an atlas brace if I was in the market for one. Those Foam EVS neck doughnuts seemed to be a safer bet...
I would personally get an atlas brace if I was in the market for one. Those Foam EVS neck doughnuts seemed to be a safer bet than any of these new rigid ones. Anyone remember these? Back in 2000-2002 they were super popular. I remember buying one for 30 bucks.
Yeah the atlas looks like it would spread the load more... at least not direct onto the spine... problem is we just don't know.
yzf4fiddy789
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rougemont, NC, USA
3/25/2014 6:28am
I have an atlas brace and I like it for the most part it is light and pretty comfortable, not too restrictive. I ate shit at my house one day and broke my collarbone and 4 ribs on my back, but don't believe it was related to the brace as I went over the bars on a jump and crash landed on my right side shoulder/head/back which is where all the breaks were.

Hopefully tickle will be back to normal in not too long of time frame. Growing up I use to see him killing it at a lot of local tracks around the area. He always seemed like a good duded any time I heard him talk.
3/25/2014 6:46am
I'm no doctor but if I had to choose between directing force at a cervical vertebrae or a thoracic vertebrae I would take the thoracic any day.

hillbilly
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3/25/2014 7:31am
Something could be made along the lines of a HANS device,it would be uncomfortable and expensive ,

Which means it will never be built,not enuff of us to recoup investment.

Helmets could be so much better but we still stick or head in a beercooler with nice paint,just thicker than my 1st.
JM485
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3/25/2014 8:21am
What about a re-enforced version of this? Like with the mold of a leatt? Maybe a stiffer foam at the base that contoured to your shoulders...
What about a re-enforced version of this? Like with the mold of a leatt? Maybe a stiffer foam at the base that contoured to your shoulders. I would honestly rock one of these things before I would touch a leatt. Even though I hardly ride anymore haha.
You honestly believe a piece of foam is going to save your neck better that a well engineered piece of safety equipment that has seen years of development? I wore one to, but was smart enough to see that the new braces were going to do me a lot more good than that thing in a serious crash. I would imagine is foam version of the Leatt would not properly transfer load to other areas of your body well, which would defeat the entire purpose of the devise.

StartedTooLate, awesome post, to bad most of these guys will just ignore it or claim you are paid by Leatt to post that stuff.
flyinb501
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3/25/2014 11:14am
I think some should review and learn the basic concept of a Moment, in the engineering sense. Basically...what we motorheads know as torque...is a moment. A...
I think some should review and learn the basic concept of a Moment, in the engineering sense. Basically...what we motorheads know as torque...is a moment. A force acting about a center point creating a twisting load.

A neck brace is designed to protect the weaker, smaller bones in the neck..specifically C5 below the facet joint. If you rock your head back, feel the joint in your neck where most of the bend is. That is the facet joint. The C5 below the facet joint, and the C4 above will bear impact. The moment created by an impact will concentrate on each side of that pivot when bones contact after range of motion is exceeded.

If you have a 500# impulse to the forehead, perpendicular to the spine axis, that force acts about 5" from the facet joint pivot. The bones in the neck come together in compression probably .5." from the pivot. That means the forces get multiplied about 10 fold. You are talking thousands of psi at the contact point. Not hard to crush and break things... That is how necks get broken from the feared head back blow. Now...the bones above C4 and below C5 are not fused...so it is more complex than this...but this is just a simplification to demonstrate the concept.

Now...when you add a strut down the back, the lever works the other way. The end of the strut is about 9" from the facet joint pivot. Let me help you with the math. Balance the moments. Basic engineering mechanics.

500# * 5" = "X" * 9"
X = 277#

Without a neck brace...you get thousands of psi between the C4 and C5. With a brace...you have hundreds of pounds of force acting laterally to the larger and stronger thoracic spine bones. In reality, the strut flexes, so the load is spread across the whole strut. You basically have an integration problem applied to a cantilevered beam. The loads on the back are VERY low. If an impact is strong enough that the reacted load down the strut is large enough to brake your back from the lateral load applied by a flimsy piece of plastic, then you were dead any way. A load that will create a fracture when reacted across a 9" lever arm will simply explode the C5 when reacted across a 1/2" lever arm.

Can a brace "cause" a T7 fracture. The weakest link breaks first. If can see how in a huge impact with a brace, the load to the back could cause a fracture point to shift from T12, 11, 10 up to T7 because of that added load. But what on earth do you think would have happened at your C5 without the brace, when it sees 20x the contact forces because the lever arm reacting the moment is so short?

The net moment which comes from the blow to the forehead has to be balanced. When you want to tighten a bigger bolt...you us a bigger wrench. If you want to react a load wiht the lowest force...you use a larger lever arm to react it. The natural lever arm about the facet joint to so short.
How dare you try and use logic and engineering to explain this. Only pure emotion and faith are allowed in neck brace threads.. Lol

All sarcasm aside, you nailed it. Unfortunately I don't think one of these anti-neck brace idiots will possibly be able to comprehend what you wrote. I am a mechanical engineer, and i will back up you info.

For some reason there are many people that have a hatred for neck braces. It is bizarre.

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