Next generation suspension?

Edited Date/Time 2/28/2014 3:38pm
Do you think we will see adaptive suspension tech reach motocross any time soon? It seems to be pretty common now in supercars, but is the technology (like the magneto-rheological dampers in Ferraris, Corvettes, Lambos, etc) theoretically adaptable for this sort of use?

Also, do you think we will ever see active suspension that reads the track ahead of time and preemptively adjusts? Imagine a suspension system that learns the track as you go and adjusts to changes not just during the race but from corner to corner and jump to jump, a different setting every few feet.
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mxjeff575
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2/27/2014 5:17pm
I'm sure this is pretty far fetched, but in the future, with super accurate GPS, you could download a track map of suspension settings and it could adjust based on your GPS location. Program it to firm up while in the air over the big jump, soften up for the braking bumps into the next corner, etc.
jtiger12
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2/27/2014 5:18pm
My buddy and I have always talked about having an "oh shit" button that would stiffen the suspension at the moment of impact. Active suspension could do that
pitbike502
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2/27/2014 5:18pm
I would think the new air forks are a good leap ahead. Looking ack on how far bikes have come in the last 10 years, its hard to imagine what we could have in another few years

The Shop

Rooster
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2/27/2014 6:34pm
There's too many variables like changing track conditions to make such a system feasible with today's technology.
Jarrett H
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2/27/2014 6:58pm
Rooster wrote:
There's too many variables like changing track conditions to make such a system feasible with today's technology.
That's actually the whole reason to have it.
ashwerx7
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2/27/2014 7:36pm
I work in the Industry and with an engineer who has developed MR dampening for street bikes has been partially developed at Virginia Tech.. There is a preliminary design for off-road. The valving needs some work still but the big issue is the weight and cost of the fluids...

This is cool....google bose suspension system
gt80rider
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2/27/2014 7:56pm
it's all about the corner speed, when are we going to see less travel for lower cg????
Rooster
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2/27/2014 10:09pm Edited Date/Time 2/28/2014 12:57am
Rooster wrote:
There's too many variables like changing track conditions to make such a system feasible with today's technology.
Jarrett H wrote:
That's actually the whole reason to have it.
Did I question the reasoning behind why you'd want it?

There's no question that motocross has to be the toughest test of any suspension system and that an active system is a great advancement.

It's just not there yet for an off-road application. I think we're getting pretty close with the processing power required and the miniaturization of the computers and necessary sensors, but the software (and testing) to make it work is nowhere near ready.

Who will be the first guy to to hit a set of whoops WFO on a bike that has suspension that will react independently and differently every lap? How bad will he wad it up the first time the system lets him down and the speed he's carrying is even higher than what they're hitting them at now? What happens mid race when the sensors get covered with mud and stop feeding the computer reliable data?

If Dungey lost faith in the air shock because it failed on the starting line, then how do you think any rider would react to an active system with even the most minor issues?
2/27/2014 11:33pm Edited Date/Time 2/27/2014 11:34pm
mxjeff575 wrote:
I'm sure this is pretty far fetched, but in the future, with super accurate GPS, you could download a track map of suspension settings and it...
I'm sure this is pretty far fetched, but in the future, with super accurate GPS, you could download a track map of suspension settings and it could adjust based on your GPS location. Program it to firm up while in the air over the big jump, soften up for the braking bumps into the next corner, etc.
and I'm scared of FI failing on faces of jumps. I'd have more things to be afraid of if my bike relied on GPS suspension adjustments........eek.

On pavement race tracks where the surface doesn't change as radically as dirt tracks I would be all for it.....not on dirt though.
2/28/2014 12:16am
TriRacer27 wrote:
Do you think we will see adaptive suspension tech reach motocross any time soon? It seems to be pretty common now in supercars, but is the...
Do you think we will see adaptive suspension tech reach motocross any time soon? It seems to be pretty common now in supercars, but is the technology (like the magneto-rheological dampers in Ferraris, Corvettes, Lambos, etc) theoretically adaptable for this sort of use?

Also, do you think we will ever see active suspension that reads the track ahead of time and preemptively adjusts? Imagine a suspension system that learns the track as you go and adjusts to changes not just during the race but from corner to corner and jump to jump, a different setting every few feet.
Back a few years (about 20 ) ago I worked for a OEM in R&D and they had us working on active suspension with a Vender trying to stop Road race bike ( Super Bikes and Moto GP) from highsiding using sensor input to predict the moment just before and slow rebound. At that time the servo motor could move fast enough to make it real. But they did start on traction controll shortly after. it was a fun time back then with the electronics a very new thing. I personaly hated the idear of all the sensors and wiring etc on the bike and for MX thought it is a wast of time.

But a while back I test rode the BMW R1200 GS ( wich is the size of a small car with only two wheels ) which has electronic suspension and traction control for ADB magazine and it was an amazing bike and those features works great on that bike on the dirt . If they keep working on it it may get there for MX but there is the problem of the wheel speed / revs data going haywire when your jumping... maybe a panic button or SX mode you can hit mid would work LOL
ashwerx7
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2/28/2014 1:52am
Agreed. Look at all the issues moto gp had with fly by wire in the early years...

Suspension really is the biggest factor and advancing technology for performance.. On a 450, do you really think you need more power.. You don't need an exhaust, you don't need head work or fancy ignitions.. Get your suspension done.. That's why privateers go 450 class.. You don't need the motor work to compete.. Suspension is key.. That's why the pro's don't leave home without it..

Want More corner speed.. Use less brake! Haha There's so much Physics, geometry material science and forces involved we'd need a day and several chalkboards..

A great and highly technical off road editor once told me for all but the top top guys.. Don't worry about the bike.. Fix the rider!!
SouthwestMfg
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2/28/2014 6:42am
Currently illegal under AMA rules for MX.
12 Pack
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2/28/2014 6:50am
mxjeff575 wrote:
I'm sure this is pretty far fetched, but in the future, with super accurate GPS, you could download a track map of suspension settings and it...
I'm sure this is pretty far fetched, but in the future, with super accurate GPS, you could download a track map of suspension settings and it could adjust based on your GPS location. Program it to firm up while in the air over the big jump, soften up for the braking bumps into the next corner, etc.
What if I told you that motoGP is already using such technology, in addition to programming their traction control/ignition curve the same way?
2/28/2014 9:34am
Very interesting stuff guys.

Speaking of active GPS adjustable suspension, check out this new Koenigsegg.

Koenigsegg One-1

"See, the One:1 was designed based on customer requests for an insane track car that could also be run on the road. Koenigsegg is doing this by having the suspension, GPS, and a cell phone app all work together. This is a connected car, but in a very different way from a Google car."

"See, Koenigsegg will be traveling with the development car to a number of race tracks and setting it up to conquer them. But how they'll be doing it precisely is with GPS. In order to have an optimal setup for each corner, engineers will adjust the car for sections of a track which they will then log into the GPS. When the car reaches those coordinates again, it'll automatically adjust. One:1 also uses the cell phone as kind of a data logger. So instead of staring at a G-meter on track and crashing, it logs the data and sends it to the One:1 app on your phone. That way you have everything after your run"




Only a matter of time. Used to be that carbon fiber was considered only for supercars and MotoGP bikes. I really believe this tech will make it into motocross bikes sooner than you all think.
2/28/2014 9:37am
ssraccent wrote:
[img]https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/ohlins-semi-active-suspension-shock.jpg[/img] [img]https://i1.wp.com/www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/norton-tt-racer-semi-active-suspension.jpg[/img]


What the heck is that and what bike is that off of?
hvaughn88
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2/28/2014 9:39am
ssraccent wrote:
[img]https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/ohlins-semi-active-suspension-shock.jpg[/img] [img]https://i1.wp.com/www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/norton-tt-racer-semi-active-suspension.jpg[/img]


TriRacer27 wrote:
What the heck is that and what bike is that off of?
those carbon fiber wheels just gave me a rise in my levi's
Moto Soul Mag
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2/28/2014 10:06am
Electromagnetic suspension...you don't even need a spring.
Imagine suspenders based on a magnetic field.
Lightning78
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2/28/2014 10:15am
Electromagnetic suspension...you don't even need a spring.
Imagine suspenders based on a magnetic field.
I did some research on this and it seems surprisingly easier than it sounds… .just have to have a good progressive correlation in the dampning curve and as the magnetic field increases the fluid will thicken thus giving a stiffer travel and can also be very effective with speed sensitivity could be very useful in a surprise hard high speed impact
Grizz
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2/28/2014 1:05pm
pitbike502 wrote:
I would think the new air forks are a good leap ahead. Looking ack on how far bikes have come in the last 10 years, its...
I would think the new air forks are a good leap ahead. Looking ack on how far bikes have come in the last 10 years, its hard to imagine what we could have in another few years
The PSF forks lose a lot of reliability in exchange for a nearly insignificant amount of performance gains. They are also cheaper to make. A good leap ahead? Not in my opinion.

I also don't think have evolved that much in the past 10 years to be honest. Even at the professional level.
Grizz
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2/28/2014 1:08pm
The technology is there for suspension to be much better than it is. The money is not. Im excited to see what comes in the future, but it's gunna suck for us normal guys when we are trying to buy bikes for $20,000 without the same increase in our pay!
Rooster
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2/28/2014 1:42pm
Electromagnetic suspension...you don't even need a spring.
Imagine suspenders based on a magnetic field.
How much power do you direct away from the wheels to drive the generator necessary to run a system like that?

It'll take a lot of juice to have an electromagnetic shock rebound quick enough to hammer some whoops, never mind absorb the impact of say Larocco's leap.

Springs (or air) perform the same task without the weight or performance penalty.
mxjeff575
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2/28/2014 3:38pm
mxjeff575 wrote:
I'm sure this is pretty far fetched, but in the future, with super accurate GPS, you could download a track map of suspension settings and it...
I'm sure this is pretty far fetched, but in the future, with super accurate GPS, you could download a track map of suspension settings and it could adjust based on your GPS location. Program it to firm up while in the air over the big jump, soften up for the braking bumps into the next corner, etc.
12 Pack wrote:
What if I told you that motoGP is already using such technology, in addition to programming their traction control/ignition curve the same way?
Dang!! They stole my idea !

Thanks for the info...sounds like i have some googling to do.

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