Jimmy decotis hits out

2/20/2014 4:44pm
There could be a couple of easy quick fixes that should've been implemented a long time ago....

1 First round everyone pays the entry fee. Make it whatever you want.

2 you make the night show then you get a non transferable free entry to any other event for the remainder of the season.

3 Free advertising of some kind to fuel company's who put up gas cards to the riders that make the night show.

4 There should be a set percentage of all advertising $$$ that goes to the pay outs. Even if it's as low as 1% it would be a start. You could could add it to the total amount as a "rider tax" what company is going to complain about that if they know it's going directly to the top 50 riders.

5 If it's really run on such a tight budget (not) at least add $1.00 per ticket and add it to the purse across the board. Right now the majority of the "professional" participants are paying to compete! This is unacceptable and for a healthy sport to continue it must change period...

The night show in SX and the Mains in MX should be the cut off where at the very least the riders don't have to pay to compete. Wouldn't all industry people agree on that? The bottom line is that it's a disgrace the way it's being handled right now both indoors and out.
Regis
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2/20/2014 4:49pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2014 4:58pm
TbonesPop wrote:
I respectfully have to disagree. Socialism isn't the answer, capitalism is. The most financially successful riders are set financially not because of the "spread it around"...
I respectfully have to disagree. Socialism isn't the answer, capitalism is. The most financially successful riders are set financially not because of the "spread it around" approach but because of marketing themselves and creating a marketable product.

Increasing purse money won't do diddly for the riders. That said, I agree the paltry payout is pathetic but it is what it is.
I really like what you have said so far and I think you're totally right. There are tons of opportunities for ANYONE wanting to do something...
I really like what you have said so far and I think you're totally right. There are tons of opportunities for ANYONE wanting to do something else. Everyone has access to the internet and with some ingenuity and some effort, market yourself in some other fashion. I've always thought the majority of the moto industry has been very uncreative when it comes to marketing. The exclusivity hurts it. I think what Peick, Derek Anderson, Albertson, etc are doing is great, it provides a personality behind the helmet and that is what is going to bring in outsiders of the sport.

Someone mentioned having an agency doing personal rider marketing and that's actually something that I've been working on with a few others. We have some riders (off-road mostly) so far but it should be up and running full-time later this summer. All of these guys have the opportunity and deserve the limelight, they just need some help getting there.

As far as Jimmy D goes, I totally agree with him and I'm even more of a fan now. Unfortunately until more riders side with him, not much will change.
I just wish riders could cash in more on being there! Merchandise? Letting sponsors get exposure in the pits. Bt I also know the series sponsors pay to be there so it is a tightt rope to walk. I know it is a business.

TbonesPop is right.

Capitalism is the answer!!!
rrdecals
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2/20/2014 5:13pm
One problem is both the teams, riders and promoters draw from the same sponsor pool Sponsors are going to hop wherever they get the most exposure. The promoters do not let teams and riders sell or even hand out stickers in the pits, so where is a sponsor going to spend their advertising dollar? Certainly no to going to be with a rider or team.

I've even heard of Feld or AMA ( not sure which) fining teams for handing out promotional items.

They riders do not even own the rights to their own image.
Regis
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2/20/2014 5:20pm
rrdecals wrote:
One problem is both the teams, riders and promoters draw from the same sponsor pool Sponsors are going to hop wherever they get the most exposure...
One problem is both the teams, riders and promoters draw from the same sponsor pool Sponsors are going to hop wherever they get the most exposure. The promoters do not let teams and riders sell or even hand out stickers in the pits, so where is a sponsor going to spend their advertising dollar? Certainly no to going to be with a rider or team.

I've even heard of Feld or AMA ( not sure which) fining teams for handing out promotional items.

They riders do not even own the rights to their own image.
Stickers can't be handed out thanks to the fans.

They take them and stick them or "tag" things at the stadiums and the stadiums got tired of having to clean them up everywhere. Years ago it became a major issue where they were being charged and threatened with vandalism to clean up after the races.

The Shop

rrdecals
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2/20/2014 5:22pm
Boy Regis, everyone is to blame except AMA/Feld
Regis
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2/20/2014 5:29pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2014 5:49pm
rrdecals wrote:
Boy Regis, everyone is to blame except AMA/Feld
Really? thats what you get from my posts?

Just giving the facts on the stickers and other grossly wrong points brought up by others that were pure speculation and guesses. My apologies I am trying to inform you on one of your points.

That's the problem with threads like this. lots of misinformation and guesses, then some facts come out and you are a nut hugger industry guy. Motos XXX was threatened multiple times for handing out stickers because of this exact reason. Those guys are brothers to me and I watched them get threatened. Stickers used to get handed out all the time, then they were outlawed, not because of greed but because of vandalism . (which it was considered)

I think lots can be improved and I have stated that. I just hate when facts get int he way of a good bash fest. I just stated that capitalism is the answer and I wish the riders could bank a little more on there likeness, like merchandising. But the sticker thing, it became a legit problem. Sorry to pass that on....

If that wasn't the reason and it was purely because of logo's and sponsors, then posters would be outlawed as well, they have the same logos on them right?
2/20/2014 5:46pm
This may have already been suggested, but maybe the best way to increase the purse is to allow corporations to sponsor individual races. I know the entire series is called Monster Energy Supercross, but what if the purse were provided by a company with deep pockets that had a reason to sponsor a race near their headquarters. For example, Home Depot is headquartered in Atlanta. What if you were to turn on the T.V. this Saturday and hear Ralph Sheheen say, “Welcome to Atlanta and the Monster Energy Supercross, brought to you by Home Depot.” Then Home depot would be responsible for paying out a $250,000 purse.

This works in professional golf and, of course, in NASCAR. I’m not sure that Feld or the AMA is going to come up with much more purse money than they already do, so this might be the best bet.
rrdecals
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2/20/2014 6:05pm
1) They do have different sponsors at different venues that for the outdoors.
2) I do need to put this out there, there is no way Feld pays for tv programming for supercross.

3) Lastly, maybe they should arrest the little kids for putting stickers on stuff.
Zracer
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2/20/2014 6:25pm
1st I just became a Decotis fan for him speaking out about something going on FOREVER! 2nd Riders union is the only way to fix it. Some sacrifices have to be made to make it better for all the future racers. Feld will continue to take from these riders until the riders take their negotiating power back. It will never change until the riders decide to shut it down.
Sandberm
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2/20/2014 6:28pm
Regis wrote:
I know Jimmy is talking about purse money, and he couldn't be any more right! The purse isn't what the fans would like to see, what...
I know Jimmy is talking about purse money, and he couldn't be any more right!

The purse isn't what the fans would like to see, what the riders want to see or what any of us feel is warranted. We all wish it was higher, I don't think anybody even the people at FELD could argue that.

However, on the other side of things, just like for anybody that owns and operates a company, all the while the bikes, the fuel, the travel, etc has gone up so has everything else gone up too. Being a company owner for the first time this year that was moderately successful, Heck..... I could't BELIEVE the amount of money I had to pay to uncle sam for employing people, and playing by the rules.

Makes me wish I was just an employee again.

None of this will make sense to riders though. Not for a few years until after they quite racing.
So what you are saying is....the profit margin for the promoter is slim and there just isnt anything extra left over to pay the riders in purse money?

Is that what your trying to say?
hellion
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2/20/2014 6:34pm
Regis, I totally agree with you. As an ex racer I would just like to see the guys who are the best in the world at our sport make a fair living from the organization that effectively runs it. And to the people who say the riders can just get another job, they will. Unless your name is Jeremy or Ricky you will probably need to work after your racing days are through. Still, these guys are putting on a show. The show wouldn't be very interesting if there were only five or ten riders involved. Pay the guys who are putting in the work and taking the risk to he the best.
cmunn
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2/20/2014 6:36pm
Regis - did I see your name on True Detective??
Sandberm
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2/20/2014 6:41pm
This may have already been suggested, but maybe the best way to increase the purse is to allow corporations to sponsor individual races. I know the...
This may have already been suggested, but maybe the best way to increase the purse is to allow corporations to sponsor individual races. I know the entire series is called Monster Energy Supercross, but what if the purse were provided by a company with deep pockets that had a reason to sponsor a race near their headquarters. For example, Home Depot is headquartered in Atlanta. What if you were to turn on the T.V. this Saturday and hear Ralph Sheheen say, “Welcome to Atlanta and the Monster Energy Supercross, brought to you by Home Depot.” Then Home depot would be responsible for paying out a $250,000 purse.

This works in professional golf and, of course, in NASCAR. I’m not sure that Feld or the AMA is going to come up with much more purse money than they already do, so this might be the best bet.
I think thats what the outdoor nationals did. I dont know if it raised the purse money though, Coombs would have to answer that.
Sandberm
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2/20/2014 6:51pm
WHATS THE PROFIT MARGIN? And would it be reasonable to expect the sx promoters to chip in another $20k per class for purse money? I think $40,000 would be a reasonable amount to demand from Feld.

Running a business is about self preservation. You keep as much in your pocket as you can unless otherwise forced to. The promoter knows the riders have no power because they are not organized and thus they will never pay more. Never.

Every rider that isnt a factory rider should boycot Atlanta, arguably the biggest race on the circuit as a protest. Only having 12 riders line up for the 450 heat races and 10 for the 250s would be a show of force.

If the privateers arnt making any money anyways, what would it hurt?
2/20/2014 6:59pm
I believe GuyB has the best advice so far. As long as an event is sanctioned by the AMA and every racer belongs to this association then the AMA is the structure for racers to address their concerns. The association has the financial resources to organize committees and sub-committees to gather facts and represent racers. Just like the AMA can lobby Congress it can also be the voice for their association members.
JoJmoto
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2/20/2014 7:06pm
Allen McWilliams (Owner of RPMsports a.k.a. Mill Creek Mx in Alabama) has started a new thing called the Motocross League of America (MLA) that I think will compete with the AMA at some point in the future. I think there are several people fed up with the AMA and it appears Allen is doing something about it. Its just an Amateur things right now, but who knows, it could grow......... or turn out like the NMA..

http://www.motocrossleagueofamerica.com/
moto589
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2/20/2014 7:10pm
My bet is the Monster / Rockstar girls make more...........

I'm from Cleveland and and have been a fan of the SX and MX for 25 years. We don't have a supercross in the area and I was in Dallas this past weekend and got to attend my first live supercross w/ the exception of Cleveland in 95'.

I realized supercross is a show and motocross is a race. From my viewpoint 97+% of the people in the stands are casual fans at best., or ride four wheelers.

Supercross could be taken over and scripted by the WWF and would make more money. and provide the same entertainment. You could put 50 guys on a train and call it the Barnum & Bailey Supercross and the riders would actually make a living.

Might be a good idea to mix Nitro Circus w/ supercross.
JM485
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2/20/2014 7:15pm
I have to agree that it is rediculous for teams not to be able to sell merchandise and/or give out promotional things. Doesn't have to be stickers, Regis made a great point about that and got blasted for some reason.Blink

If teams were able to sell things like shirts, hats, or even a cheap calendar or something, I think that would help out a lot. I would gladly give a privateer 5 bucks or so for a small calendar with some pics for each month, and I think others would to. For Feld not to allow this is absolutely rediculous, and seems pretty greedy in my opinion.
2/20/2014 7:16pm
Another sad reality of this is the number of racers who elect to bail on a pro career and stay at the local pro level. Back when contingency was much higher a local pro could make well over $1000.00 every weekend and with a much lower cost involved. I've always thought there was a two year window in suoercross and national motocross in which a racer can make it or break it. Supercross is a circus, I've already decided I won't drive any more than 1 hour to see one.
2/20/2014 7:17pm
moto589 wrote:
My bet is the Monster / Rockstar girls make more........... I'm from Cleveland and and have been a fan of the SX and MX for 25...
My bet is the Monster / Rockstar girls make more...........

I'm from Cleveland and and have been a fan of the SX and MX for 25 years. We don't have a supercross in the area and I was in Dallas this past weekend and got to attend my first live supercross w/ the exception of Cleveland in 95'.

I realized supercross is a show and motocross is a race. From my viewpoint 97+% of the people in the stands are casual fans at best., or ride four wheelers.

Supercross could be taken over and scripted by the WWF and would make more money. and provide the same entertainment. You could put 50 guys on a train and call it the Barnum & Bailey Supercross and the riders would actually make a living.

Might be a good idea to mix Nitro Circus w/ supercross.
Feld do that, its called Nuclear Cowboys, and I bet the riders in there make more a night than most of the guys in the 250F main,
Regis
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2/20/2014 7:25pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2014 7:35pm
Regis wrote:
I know Jimmy is talking about purse money, and he couldn't be any more right! The purse isn't what the fans would like to see, what...
I know Jimmy is talking about purse money, and he couldn't be any more right!

The purse isn't what the fans would like to see, what the riders want to see or what any of us feel is warranted. We all wish it was higher, I don't think anybody even the people at FELD could argue that.

However, on the other side of things, just like for anybody that owns and operates a company, all the while the bikes, the fuel, the travel, etc has gone up so has everything else gone up too. Being a company owner for the first time this year that was moderately successful, Heck..... I could't BELIEVE the amount of money I had to pay to uncle sam for employing people, and playing by the rules.

Makes me wish I was just an employee again.

None of this will make sense to riders though. Not for a few years until after they quite racing.
Sandberm wrote:
So what you are saying is....the profit margin for the promoter is slim and there just isnt anything extra left over to pay the riders in...
So what you are saying is....the profit margin for the promoter is slim and there just isnt anything extra left over to pay the riders in purse money?

Is that what your trying to say?
No,

I am saying we don't know the profit margin at each race, we are all guessing.

However, it has to be different at each race right? None of us work on the inner circles of the races to know, I imagine the cost is a lot higher than we think based on simple operating costs of any business.


Why does everyone think that SX is such a crazy moneymaker, to where the promotor can kick extra money into the purse? They are in it to make as much as possible, it's a business! Didn't we just learn form an earlier post the AMA sets the purse? In this day and age, I wouldn't be surprised the profit isn't as much as many think, I am not saying they aren't making money. Yes there is profit because it is around still, but we don't know how much. Just because the cost of going racing is more, doesn't mean the powers at be are making more. You can't come up with a formula about the amount of tickets sold and an average ticket price and automatically think there is an abundance of money based on that.

What if at some of the rounds money is lost due to low attendance? Should the purse be lower at those rounds for the riders not filling the seats? Should the purse "float" based on how many people are in the seats? In all businesses, when it becomes more viable, that doesn't mean the employees automatically get raises. The bosses, that own and built the business get more., or put more away to invest in other avenues of their business.

What you are asking me about is profit sharing and not racing for purse money. The purse is consistent every race, the profit/loss isn't.

I AM ON BOARD WITH JIMMY. I WISH THE PURSE WAS MORE as does everyone else. The purse isn't where you are going to make money, it never has been. Even the best, in the big picture can't depend on the purse to make a living.

The ONLY thing I wish Feld could do is allow the riders to exploit themselves and capitalize as being a rider in the show. Even then, I am sure they have sponsor contractual obligations and it wouldn't be fair to charge some sponsors but let some riders sponsors do stuff for free.

I think there needs to be more education about where the purse comes from and the cost of putting a race on before we want to burn FELD or the AMA at the stake for not paying the riders what some of us feel they deserve.

Although I completely agree with Jimmy, he isn't the first nor the last to complain about the purse and he for sure will not be black balled or not get a ride for voicing his opinion. Many factory riders have voiced the same thing. He isn't a pioneer on complaining about the purse. Nobody disagrees with him. He gets results, he will get a ride.
Regis
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2/20/2014 7:27pm
cmunn wrote:
Regis - did I see your name on True Detective??
yes. Played a tweaker. lol.
Regis
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2/20/2014 7:28pm
hellion wrote:
Regis, I totally agree with you. As an ex racer I would just like to see the guys who are the best in the world at...
Regis, I totally agree with you. As an ex racer I would just like to see the guys who are the best in the world at our sport make a fair living from the organization that effectively runs it. And to the people who say the riders can just get another job, they will. Unless your name is Jeremy or Ricky you will probably need to work after your racing days are through. Still, these guys are putting on a show. The show wouldn't be very interesting if there were only five or ten riders involved. Pay the guys who are putting in the work and taking the risk to he the best.
Agreed!

and I have since I was a part of the series.
rucka356
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2/20/2014 7:31pm Edited Date/Time 2/20/2014 7:36pm
That's about like taking a job at McDonald's and then complaining about the pay. If he wants make money he needs get faster and get some sponsors.
bonseff
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2/20/2014 7:38pm
It's interesting to me that an organization that provides a venue and charges a fee to participate is being treated like a scumbag employer. Guessing Factory Kawi and Pro Circuit have contracts because Monster is a title sponsor, but others, what skin in the game do they have? Their riders get injured and don't line up on the gate, does Feld sue them for not showing up for work? nope.
Its a complicated matter for sure. Also, it's more than just 97% of casual fans showing up, its core fans who spend money on oils, gear, and other parts. No other reason why sponsors would pony up cash to get their logos on rigs, bikes and tuff blocks. Industry exposure is the reason why privateers risk/ensure financial loss to race incredibly talented top pros they have no chance whatsoever being close to competing with. Its a tough racket man.
2/20/2014 7:41pm
Unfortunately this type of thing exists in all strata of racing and it reminds me of an incident when I was racing. I finished 8 th in the 125A class and received $15.00 for my efforts. Entry was $30.00, parking was $10.00 etc. Let's not begin to add up tires, parts , gas and everything else. I must say I was a little dissapointed knowing the winner walked off with over a grand.
bonseff
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2/20/2014 7:41pm
Feld could at least truck some tents in the pits for privateers so they dont look like a bunch of hobos in the back next to the factory rig lanes. That would be a nice gesture.
mxnick
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2/20/2014 7:52pm
rrdecals wrote:
Boy Regis, everyone is to blame except AMA/Feld
Ah, no.

Regis is far better informed than most of the folks on this board.

I think he is trying to inject accurate some facts into the discussion, and not let the "Dave Prater is a billionaire" set walk off with a post of blithering nonsense.

I do not see him as defending them as much as I see him saying "Hey, wait, this is how it really is".

And, he is correct...

But if you want to think Prater is a billionaire, then what does that make his boss?

And then his boss's boss?

And then Mr. Mancuso, who reports to Ms. Feld, Ken Felds daughter, who probably reports to Mr Feld himself?

Are they all Billionaires in that food chain?

No, they are not, but the misinformation and assumptions based on incorrect info is amusing. I am glad Regis is trying to keep some of you grounded with info.
visser62
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2/20/2014 7:53pm
This is one of the most inspiring pieces of dialogue I have ever heard. It is true in all walks of life, in my opinion. Things might be bad, and maybe things could be different. But you can either bitch about the way things are, or you can work to better your situation.

braaap
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2/20/2014 8:03pm
Lewy wrote:
Not happy with the prize money. Thoughts? [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/02/19/46212/s1200_image.jpg[/img] [img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2014/02/19/46213/s1200_image.jpg[/img]
Not happy with the prize money. Thoughts?



The $200 sign up fee for the 76 riders at the Dallas SX more than paid all of the prize money for the 250 main event!

Same old song and dance with a lot of issues to resolve. First, the privateers could band together and make a difference...but it would take all of them and I just don't see it happening. If they all walk the show will be severely hampered. Decotis' words are true but words alone won't change a thing.

To me the biggest issue is that the AMA has never promoted any of their sports worth a damn, especially to potential sponsors. I always marvel at how NECKCAR has promoted itself and become the biggest spectator sport in the US. A bunch of freakin' rednecks driving around in circles and the last place driver makes over $250,000 per event .

Just for the hell of it I thought of the lamest "sport" I knew of and wondered how much the participants got paid. Well, I think bowling is about as lame as it gets as far as being considered a sport (although it's fun after a few cold ones).

It seems that the average Pro Bowlers Association event pays the winner about $20,000 and last place (36th) gets about $750!

That really makes this situation sad in my eyes!

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