MX Radio communications: Good or bad thing?

Coyote
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11/5/2013 6:54pm
Regis wrote:
you guys are missing a very big problem. HEARING! How are you going to hear radio communication over the noise of the bike? Plus, the concentration...
you guys are missing a very big problem.


HEARING!

How are you going to hear radio communication over the noise of the bike? Plus, the concentration of riding is like no other, would be a huge distraction. Maybe in the past, when guys actually jumped a triple and jumped. Now they are scrubbing so bad, there isn;t that much time the rider is off the gas in SX.

Won't work IMO.
When I was racing Baja 1000 at 100 mph the radios were crystal clear...almost 20 years ago!! At MX national manager meetings I attended in 2009 this was being thoroughly discussed and sincerly believe it needs to be put in place asap. Safety is the utmost importance for all and this and other reasons justify the use!! Just IMHO!!
rstaichi
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11/5/2013 7:34pm
Socket946 wrote:
Motogp...is still using boards...and they're far, far more advanced than MX is.
This. And to my knowledge(which is low) Motogp has much more funding available then MX.
GuyB wrote:
Yeah. The boards worked so well when the points leader missed his max number of laps a couple races ago...
His team messed up not him, he came in when they said to and they had him go one lap to many.
JeepnMike
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11/5/2013 7:50pm
Camp332 wrote:
Breaking a racers concentration by yelling in his ear while timing a tricky rhythm section. Not good Bro.
X2. The last thing a rider needs is a distraction. Even if it was one way audio, the rider would have to make mental notes and remind themselves to talk which is a distraction too. If the MEC wasn't proof enough, any distraction from what is normal is bad. Granted, I liked the joker lane, but anything to shift focus can obviously really mess with even America's finest.
Lucifa.
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11/5/2013 7:55pm
The day they make radios legal is the day they finally kill the sport. Hell, it will end up boring like Tour de France and most car racing. No bike craft and team managers calling the shots. Riders won't need to think for themselves anymore.

The Shop

AZ35
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Fantasy
11/5/2013 8:00pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2013 8:04pm
How about let the rider and team decide?

Like anything new, riders will test. And test some more.

If it works, they will use it. If not, they won't.

Maybe it will work for some, but not others.

The riders are not children, if it distracts them or causes them to lose focus (same thing), then they won't use it.

If it helps them, they will.

No one is saying it would be mandatory.

The AMA sign up fee costs more than the wireless communication system, so it not about the "factory advantage".
Grizz
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11/5/2013 8:01pm Edited Date/Time 11/5/2013 8:02pm
I feel like people that think this is a good idea don't race. Riding is a lot different than racing, and racing your local race is a lot different than racing at this level. They must just watch the racing on TV. This is such a bad idea for MX.
Tpp
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11/5/2013 9:45pm
The systems are out there, but used for training and more popular with the kids. The little guys coming up are going to be more comfortable with it b/c they're already using them with coaches and trainers.

www.motoxradios.com
11/5/2013 11:03pm
Tpp wrote:
The systems are out there, but used for training and more popular with the kids. The little guys coming up are going to be more comfortable...
The systems are out there, but used for training and more popular with the kids. The little guys coming up are going to be more comfortable with it b/c they're already using them with coaches and trainers.

www.motoxradios.com
Chatterbox systems are cool for your casual trail ride and can be useful at times with training kids. However bluetooth has it's downfalls in range and sounds quality.
yzjs7
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11/5/2013 11:23pm
I feel that it would be distracting to the rider for them to have someone in there ear. The only exception I can think of is just for safety issues such as a rider down. Maybe something that is said to all the riders. Who knows?
mx691
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11/6/2013 12:42am
Tbteam wrote:
I like the idea of one man, one machine, no outside guidance. Someone crashes and you clip him on the way by? That's MX. Didn't see...
I like the idea of one man, one machine, no outside guidance.

Someone crashes and you clip him on the way by? That's MX.

Didn't see the rut on the face of the big triple? That's MX.

The thought of every rider getting instruction and track tips from a crew member is stupid.
Exactly.

Dont ruin MX "Luongo-style".


Fun trivia:
I, if I remember right, recall a old story of Mike Andrettis wife (Sandy?) who (while Mike was on a 220 mph practice/qualifying lap) suddenly asked him on the radio what they should have for dinner tonight... Distraction to say the least, I think he spun!

She was banned from pit wall.
Loose
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11/6/2013 3:59am
Regis wrote:
you guys are missing a very big problem. HEARING! How are you going to hear radio communication over the noise of the bike? Plus, the concentration...
you guys are missing a very big problem.


HEARING!

How are you going to hear radio communication over the noise of the bike? Plus, the concentration of riding is like no other, would be a huge distraction. Maybe in the past, when guys actually jumped a triple and jumped. Now they are scrubbing so bad, there isn;t that much time the rider is off the gas in SX.

Won't work IMO.
Have you ever heard an F1 car?
Spartacus
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11/6/2013 5:24am
Safety…..

That's always the flag some people raise.

They've certain ally worked well in bike racing. Well, if you're a fan of crashing that is.

I can't wait to see the trickle down from the pro to am ranks, moms, dads, and girl friends screaming out instructions via $400 raido/rider setup to someone pinning it in 2nd gear while in 23rd place.……

Rawsome.

[the 'R' is silent]
Roscoe33
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11/6/2013 6:20am Edited Date/Time 11/6/2013 6:29am
Regis wrote:
you guys are missing a very big problem. HEARING! How are you going to hear radio communication over the noise of the bike? Plus, the concentration...
you guys are missing a very big problem.


HEARING!

How are you going to hear radio communication over the noise of the bike? Plus, the concentration of riding is like no other, would be a huge distraction. Maybe in the past, when guys actually jumped a triple and jumped. Now they are scrubbing so bad, there isn;t that much time the rider is off the gas in SX.

Won't work IMO.
Loose wrote:
Have you ever heard an F1 car?
Iam a Canadian I don't want sound stupid, but biggest US dollars are spent on your military, then 10 years after they used it
they offer it to the public
The biggest developments come from the military then trickle down to the public like us.

http://www.uclear-digital.com/us/


The issue isn't technolgy the tour de france figured it in an 8 oz helmet.
I remember Pastrana getting yanked off the start line just because he was trying to listen to his music.
wont happen.
The only sound in a helmet will be Tony Alessi yelling from pit row.
RMT
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11/6/2013 6:46am
We use them at our local sprint car races. They are one way and they use them for safety and lining up after a yellow flag. If you can hear them while sitting on top of a 410 v8 with straight pipes, you will hear them on a mx bike. They work great and keep us from running over people in a yellow flag situation. The only person talking in your ear is an official and it can be a little annoying at times but only because its a lady and she loses her patience and can sound like the wife bitching us out to get in line correctly. Lol. I know mx is different, but when you're going into a corner wide open, 3 wide with mud flying everywhere, trust me your concentrating. To hear some gal yell, yellow yellow yellow is no big deal. You get used to it and then if your battery dies, it gets kinda lonely.
MotoX85
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11/6/2013 7:09am
Tbteam wrote:
I like the idea of one man, one machine, no outside guidance. Someone crashes and you clip him on the way by? That's MX. Didn't see...
I like the idea of one man, one machine, no outside guidance.

Someone crashes and you clip him on the way by? That's MX.

Didn't see the rut on the face of the big triple? That's MX.

The thought of every rider getting instruction and track tips from a crew member is stupid.
Totally agree, well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then it will be a matter of which team has the most crew members to stand everywhere on the track. Once again playing heavy favorites to the big teams and making it impossible for privateers to keep up.

Terrible idea
The Rock
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11/6/2013 2:11pm
Hold those horses cowpokes. No one suggested having spotters or communicating at inopportune times.

I am most surprised at the majority missing the safety upside.........but then again racing is is dangerous so making it safer is probably a terrible idea.
Spartacus
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11/6/2013 4:19pm
With every upside comes a down side [or 10].
wardy
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11/6/2013 9:47pm
great idea.

these riders are professionals correct?

a rider down, specially since it seems such a good idea to allow riders to double or jump on yellow flags/

a rider should be able to choose to wear a radio for incoming communication only, and from an official that is totally controlling that ONLY.

his job is to announce to the riders where and what is going on with a rider down. letting teams do this may work also but like someone said it needs to be on channels that all can hear to stop shenanigans.

using them in amatuer racing specially with kids not a good idea.
The Rock
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11/7/2013 11:27am
RMT wrote:
We use them at our local sprint car races. They are one way and they use them for safety and lining up after a yellow flag...
We use them at our local sprint car races. They are one way and they use them for safety and lining up after a yellow flag. If you can hear them while sitting on top of a 410 v8 with straight pipes, you will hear them on a mx bike. They work great and keep us from running over people in a yellow flag situation. The only person talking in your ear is an official and it can be a little annoying at times but only because its a lady and she loses her patience and can sound like the wife bitching us out to get in line correctly. Lol. I know mx is different, but when you're going into a corner wide open, 3 wide with mud flying everywhere, trust me your concentrating. To hear some gal yell, yellow yellow yellow is no big deal. You get used to it and then if your battery dies, it gets kinda lonely.
Two things:

1) Great story but you forgot to give us all the downsides. Smile

2) Can you please provide the name of the company that makes the communications system?

wardy-The only thing about amateur kids using them is if someone designed a system to complement flaggers. It makes me shudder when I think of the blind jumps I took Vet Racing with no flaggers.....but mind you this NEVER happened at a REM race....Frank and Myra take safety seriously and always have adequate flagging.

Unfortunately can't say that about other facilities around. I also couldn't disagree more with tbteam's attitude "of this is MX get used to it." While I respect his opinion I subscribe to the Ben Franklin adage "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

In MX having a system to notify riders of a downed rider could make the difference between someone being able to walk or spend the rest of their life in a wheelchair. Personally I think we owe it to the kids coming up to always keep an eye on safety and think "what more could we be doing especially with technology to improve safety?" instead of thinking "well this is the way we've always done it so we'll just keep doing it the same way."
11/7/2013 11:38am
Socket946 wrote:
Motogp...is still using boards...and they're far, far more advanced than MX is.
And way faster down the straights
Zaugg
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11/7/2013 3:48pm
I love how you guys can blow something as simple as radio coms completely out of proportion.

There's good and bad in everything. It's this closed minded, keep it like it is, mentality that has held this sport back.

Imagine as a fan being able to hear pit coms with a racer...like NASCAR...oops...I said the N-Word. God forbid we have the popularity of NASCAR....damn...I did it again.

...And last time I checked, we have more fans, better TV coverage, and of course, more complaining because there's more people involved.

Yeah...you guys are right...keep it like it is so the complaining can be at a minimum.Laughing
11/7/2013 5:31pm
RMT wrote:
We use them at our local sprint car races. They are one way and they use them for safety and lining up after a yellow flag...
We use them at our local sprint car races. They are one way and they use them for safety and lining up after a yellow flag. If you can hear them while sitting on top of a 410 v8 with straight pipes, you will hear them on a mx bike. They work great and keep us from running over people in a yellow flag situation. The only person talking in your ear is an official and it can be a little annoying at times but only because its a lady and she loses her patience and can sound like the wife bitching us out to get in line correctly. Lol. I know mx is different, but when you're going into a corner wide open, 3 wide with mud flying everywhere, trust me your concentrating. To hear some gal yell, yellow yellow yellow is no big deal. You get used to it and then if your battery dies, it gets kinda lonely.
The Rock wrote:
Two things: 1) Great story but you forgot to give us all the downsides. :) 2) Can you please provide the name of the company that...
Two things:

1) Great story but you forgot to give us all the downsides. Smile

2) Can you please provide the name of the company that makes the communications system?

wardy-The only thing about amateur kids using them is if someone designed a system to complement flaggers. It makes me shudder when I think of the blind jumps I took Vet Racing with no flaggers.....but mind you this NEVER happened at a REM race....Frank and Myra take safety seriously and always have adequate flagging.

Unfortunately can't say that about other facilities around. I also couldn't disagree more with tbteam's attitude "of this is MX get used to it." While I respect his opinion I subscribe to the Ben Franklin adage "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

In MX having a system to notify riders of a downed rider could make the difference between someone being able to walk or spend the rest of their life in a wheelchair. Personally I think we owe it to the kids coming up to always keep an eye on safety and think "what more could we be doing especially with technology to improve safety?" instead of thinking "well this is the way we've always done it so we'll just keep doing it the same way."
They are most likely using what is called a Raceciever. The company I worked for has the same general design so I can give you some downsides.

a.) yes you can hear them over a race car... but that's only because you have noise canceling ear buds in both your ears. You aren't going to convince all the racers to basically be wearing ear plugs out there as it can get uncomfortable at times as well. Also I was always curious on the health risks of plugging off your ears and taking a big hit to the head. ( no idea if it is dangerous at all but just had me curious).

B.) They aren't the most durable things in the world, and one good hit to the ground would surely break it. So where do you place it on the rider? Do you attach it to their hip and have them run a wire down their shirt that could get caught on a roost protector? or do you mount it on the helmet with a go pro like case? The later was my goal but I was still concerned with durability.

C.) They can only be programmed to one channel so basically it would just be for the officials to communicate with the riders or the mechanic to do so.

Again I really want to see a system like this be developed for moto use because I think it carries a huge advantage in safety.

Now an awesome thing that could come from it... say the mechanics are now communicating to the riders. Everyone in the stands could have a receiver as well and listen into the chatter amongst the pits, just like nascar. I bring them all the time to races to do exactly this. .. if you know the frequencies that is Wink
The Rock
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11/7/2013 5:55pm Edited Date/Time 11/7/2013 6:24pm
A step into the 21st century comm wise would be limited mechanic to rider communications and safety officials notifying riders of danger course wide.

I can see it now......the 2016 Alpinestar data pack. Collects racer vitals including G force from wireless helmet sensor, communication receiver and works with both optional track side marker as well as Live Timing to provide laptimes. iTunes support standard with GoPro compatibility optional. The data pack is the size of deck of cards with USB interface with two hour battery life.
11/7/2013 6:01pm
The Rock wrote:
A step into the 21st century comm wise would be limited mechanic to rider communications and safety officials notifying riders of danger course wide. I can...
A step into the 21st century comm wise would be limited mechanic to rider communications and safety officials notifying riders of danger course wide.

I can see it now......the 2016 Alpinestar data pack. Collects racer vitals including G force from wireless helmet sensor, communication receiver and works with both optional track side marker as well as Live Timing to provide laptimes. iTunes support standard with GoPro compatibility optional. The data pack is the size of deck of cards with USB interface with two hour battery life.
Something like that would be awesome! And I'm sure it is technologically possible.
PTECH
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11/7/2013 6:14pm
I'm surprised at all the people here saying it wont work or it will be distracting of whatever. As the video someone already posted has shown, they've been doing it in F1 for ages. They're two different sports for sure but I don't see a reason why they couldn't have one way communication from the pit wall to the rider. I guarantee an F1 car is louder than a mx bike. I doubt its any less physical either, F1 drivers can average a 180 BPM heart rate for 90 minutes! Not saying that it wouldn't take some getting used to for the riders but its certainly not impossible.
11/7/2013 6:20pm
Where does heart rate monitors fall in this rule? I know KR was wearing one at the MEC but I don't recall him or other riders wearing it in a prior SX or MX National event. I never paid attention before but I don't recall ever seeing it.
The Rock
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11/7/2013 6:47pm
Data collection has never been an issue but using telemetry has been verboten. I believe AMA has been easing up on this over time.

THREAD TITLE CHANGE The MEC aspect got lost in dust so I changed thread to reflect current topic.
Crush
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11/7/2013 6:58pm
The Rock wrote:
I believe this is still allowed. Curious in view of the Ryans' missing the Joker Lane if we will see radios in 2014 at MEC? Personally...
I believe this is still allowed. Curious in view of the Ryans' missing the Joker Lane if we will see radios in 2014 at MEC?

Personally I think the pit board method of communications is pretty archaic and IMHO it is time to introduce some technology to supplement pit boards.
Only allowed in MX and Monster Cup.

I love the idea of it, until I think about a possible situation where some manager is saying "swerve left!" as an attempted pass is made, and a big crash ensues...

There is a safety element that is potentially great and potentially bad. IF, massive IF, the AMA/Feld/MX Sports were across all channels and was monitoring it for fair play, then good, bring it in!
Tpp
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11/7/2013 7:56pm
This topic has sort of taken off and obviously left the original intent of wondering about MEC. Alessi tried it last year and sucked at it. Funny that the Joker lane was forgotten by so many since the Joker Lane IS MEC. Perhaps, I seem out-of-the-blue, but I've been lurking for years--just never really took time to contribute to these conversations. They're more entertaining to read, and while I actually know many of you, I FEEL like I know the rest. On this subject, though, I have an opinion. MEC level? Not so much. I am a parent of mini kids and see the benefits from that level. My kids have crashed HARD many times and I was thankful to hear them talking through our www.motoxradios.com systems which happen to be Chatterbox based. There is nothing better than seeing your kid eat shit and scream through the Chatterbox. I know, seems crazy, but much better than being knocked out! At this level, it gives us a very good idea of how fast to run! My son, who is 8, recently crashed at Pala and calmly told my husband he broke his arm...and yes, it was a severely broken humerus. We used these systems to teach our kids how to ride. No more chasing and screaming. More importantly, we taught our kids track etiquette using the system AND have prevented many accidents. Outside of everything I've mentioned, mini's are using them. Prepare yourselves b/c the next generation of riders ARE going to be comfortable using them. Not saying it's right or wrong. I clearly understand the comments of everyone above from a professional level. I'm simply speaking from mini experience.
BobbyM
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11/7/2013 9:55pm
Regis wrote:
you guys are missing a very big problem. HEARING! How are you going to hear radio communication over the noise of the bike? Plus, the concentration...
you guys are missing a very big problem.


HEARING!

How are you going to hear radio communication over the noise of the bike? Plus, the concentration of riding is like no other, would be a huge distraction. Maybe in the past, when guys actually jumped a triple and jumped. Now they are scrubbing so bad, there isn;t that much time the rider is off the gas in SX.

Won't work IMO.
Thats where electric scooters come into play...have to have mufflers on the damn earbuds then.

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