any 85 updates any time soon?

Thomas Jefferson 4/12/2013 8:27am
4/12/2013 8:27am Edited Date/Time 4/12/2013 8:29am
The KTM makes 9hp more than the KX and weighs something like 14lbs less i read.

That's not even the same class of bike. 21 vs 30hp and 14lbs on a 150lb bike? It's not even a matter of "it's better", its not even on the same planet.

Maybe Kawi will be innovative and forward thinking, and when the y revamp their 80/105, they'll add a KX125 to their line again, to build some brand loyalty and fill the gap to their 250F

Maybe they'll include a 144jug with it and sell it for 4,995? No way, that's a crazy idea.
TripleFive 4/12/2013 8:36am
4/12/2013 8:36am
This faster bikes ever year model is a race to the bottom.

The static development of minis sounds like a great thing to me.
TripleFive 4/12/2013 9:12am
4/12/2013 9:12am
How about this:

This "faster bikes every year" model is a race to the bottom.

The Shop

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ATKpilot99
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ATKpilot99 4/12/2013 9:37am
4/12/2013 9:37am
motoarmageddon wrote:
would we be cool riding bikes that were from 1999? hell no. riders buy a new 2013 bike and then spend 1000 on suspension and still...
would we be cool riding bikes that were from 1999? hell no. riders buy a new 2013 bike and then spend 1000 on suspension and still complain about everything. can you imagine the best bike available being a 2002 YZ 426?
GuyB wrote:
Half the guys in here get excited by the scent of two-strokes, and think kids riding 85s rather than 150s would be an upgrade.
Hasn't the 150 been pretty much a failure? Scanning the Supermini results from Loretta's shows very few Hondas and no other manufacturer has jumped on board and built one. Oh yeah, they did have their own class at the Nationals. Smile
Landonious217
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Landonious217 4/12/2013 10:39am
4/12/2013 10:39am
TripleFive wrote:
How about this:

This "faster bikes every year" model is a race to the bottom.
Just add a comma after model and you're good. I had to re-read it a few times to understand what you were saying.
TripleFive 4/12/2013 10:49am
4/12/2013 10:49am
Landonious217 wrote:
Just add a comma after model and you're good. I had to re-read it a few times to understand what you were saying.
I bunged it all up. There is an infinite number of ways that I could have made that more clear.
DrSweden
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DrSweden 4/12/2013 3:50pm
4/12/2013 3:50pm Edited Date/Time 4/12/2013 4:01pm
https://youtu.be/ISQpYz7s6sk

One could suggest, when the kid maximize his tiddler experience to this point, maybe one could consider stepping up to a 250F. But with a second or two per lap loss, I still think Decotis would be able to qualify to Nationals on this dino. Remember Krock running top five on his SX125 2010 (or 2011).

Until that point, who in his right mind could justify the need/urge to the valve-train approach as long as there are hundres of cheap 85s for sale?

Sure, if one has tons of money to spend... But after years of watching this shit, shouldn't it be clear by now, it's not about the bike (if not running top 20 in SX, MX or the GPs)...
seth505
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seth505 4/12/2013 4:24pm
4/12/2013 4:24pm
My first "new" bike ever was a 94 yz 80 (93 was when they updated it and made it full of badassedness). I had a boner for months, so I have to assume a young kid these days will have a boner as well with a new yz. No issues here, business as usual.
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Wandell 4/12/2013 7:12pm
4/12/2013 7:12pm
motoarmageddon wrote:
would we be cool riding bikes that were from 1999? hell no. riders buy a new 2013 bike and then spend 1000 on suspension and still...
would we be cool riding bikes that were from 1999? hell no. riders buy a new 2013 bike and then spend 1000 on suspension and still complain about everything. can you imagine the best bike available being a 2002 YZ 426?
GuyB wrote:
Half the guys in here get excited by the scent of two-strokes, and think kids riding 85s rather than 150s would be an upgrade.
ATKpilot99 wrote:
Hasn't the 150 been pretty much a failure? Scanning the Supermini results from Loretta's shows very few Hondas and no other manufacturer has jumped on board...
Hasn't the 150 been pretty much a failure? Scanning the Supermini results from Loretta's shows very few Hondas and no other manufacturer has jumped on board and built one. Oh yeah, they did have their own class at the Nationals. Smile
I wouldn't call the Honda CRF150r a failure, but it sure as heck didn't turn out like Honda planned. The 150r and 150rb are extremely popular with old guys like me that use them to chase their kids around. It's turned out to be the ultimate pick bike/ play bike for old farts and girlfriends rather than the MX weapon of choice among preteens and teenagers!
dcg141
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dcg141 4/13/2013 3:29pm
4/13/2013 3:29pm
The 85 class has been it own different deal for quite awhile. KTM updated and Honda came out with the 150 and everyone else sat and watched. The 150 although a great bike was relegated, and rightly so to the supermini class and sales suffered. The KTM was better but not nearly twice the price better....until the 2013 came out. 6 to 7 HP is a huge gain on an 85 and the new bike is much lighter and faster than even modded RM's and KX's. There are rumors of new KX 65's and 85's but thats been going around for 3 years now and no one has seen a prototype or pre production versions and I find that odd if indeed there are new bikes on the way. We had trouble moving 85's until this year and we sold out early. Don't even mention the SXS's. If you didn't put a deposit down on one you didn't get one. So for us as a dealer now the price advantage for the RM and KX seems to have been overcome. For whatever reason the YZ has not been a big player when it comes to sales. I have no idea where it is headed. KTM is rumored to have a 150 but when Honda had trouble selling 150's the rumors died down. Rumors of new Kawaski's are out there but nothing really from Yamaha, Honda and Suzuki.
JonahDowd
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JonahDowd 6/25/2013 6:08pm
6/25/2013 6:08pm
nytsmaC wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/04/11/tm_728566.jpg[/img]




This is my 2013 TM 85 MX.. and this baby is up to date. My dad says by the time you buy one of the other 4 brands and put all the goodies on them, you have more invested then if you spend the money on a TM so we took a chance and got one. I LOVE THIS LITTLE RIPPER !!!!!! way faster then my KTM handles great. it's taking a little getting used to but i love it. We had to re-spring the forks, we sent them to FCR Suspension in Ohio and Bob had them done and back to me in one day. And I feel a little cool knowing I have the only TM 85 in the U.S.! All I know is if you want a nice fully loaded 85 I highly recommend the TM 85.
Trav138
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Trav138 6/25/2013 6:30pm
6/25/2013 6:30pm
Very cool, thats great. Also love the retro oneal gear just picked up some myself. Have fun buddy.
Jack_Wagon
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Jack_Wagon 6/25/2013 8:54pm
6/25/2013 8:54pm
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now that the AMA allows the 150 to race in Sr Mini there have been several fast kids switching to them. You see a lot more of them at the bigger races now. Anybody who says the 150s are slow has bumped their head.
Tracktor
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Tracktor 6/25/2013 9:00pm
6/25/2013 9:00pm
Jack_Wagon wrote:
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now...
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now that the AMA allows the 150 to race in Sr Mini there have been several fast kids switching to them. You see a lot more of them at the bigger races now. Anybody who says the 150s are slow has bumped their head.
The 150's are fast but heavy as shit. My kid has ridden one a few times and always came back to his YZ's. As for the KTMs they better be good for the price. I havent seen too many at the track just yet, though so we will see....
sharkey
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sharkey 6/25/2013 9:07pm
6/25/2013 9:07pm Edited Date/Time 6/25/2013 9:12pm
Jack_Wagon wrote:
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now...
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now that the AMA allows the 150 to race in Sr Mini there have been several fast kids switching to them. You see a lot more of them at the bigger races now. Anybody who says the 150s are slow has bumped their head.
http://lorettas12.tracksideresults.com/class.asp?s=&e=1&c=26

i agree with the ktm but they are the only manufacturer thats making any improvements.. were better off keeping the 85s the same to keep the cost down. we dont need 6k 85s like those ktm 85 sxs. those 150s are too heavy. the results speak for them se
JonahDowd
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JonahDowd 6/25/2013 9:14pm
6/25/2013 9:14pm
Jack_Wagon wrote:
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now...
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now that the AMA allows the 150 to race in Sr Mini there have been several fast kids switching to them. You see a lot more of them at the bigger races now. Anybody who says the 150s are slow has bumped their head.


This is me this past weekend on a nice CRF 150R and it is a nice fast bike. I got 1st in supermini in a moto and it was fun to ride,BUT my TM is much faster then the CRF and soooooo much lighter. My dad told me to say, " Are you guys CRAZY!!! buy a used bike and restore it ???? By the time you get the motor work, Suspension, wheels and cosmetics you have already spent more then a KTM and you have made the modded out motor unreliable by 70%. Do yourself a favor buy a modern 85 and save money in the long run " But I like the older bikes.... But after you ride a new bike and then get on an older one again it feels like a clunker. sorry thats just our opinion.

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Jack_Wagon
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Jack_Wagon 6/25/2013 9:15pm
6/25/2013 9:15pm
My son is 12 and weighs 100 lbs. He says he doesn't notice the extra weight when he's riding. He definately notices the extra torque and HP.
JonahDowd
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JonahDowd 6/25/2013 9:22pm
6/25/2013 9:22pm
Jack_Wagon wrote:
My son is 12 and weighs 100 lbs. He says he doesn't notice the extra weight when he's riding. He definately notices the extra torque and...
My son is 12 and weighs 100 lbs. He says he doesn't notice the extra weight when he's riding. He definately notices the extra torque and HP.
How about when he goes down in a muddy off camber corner ? I did my second moto this past weekend and could barely lift the 150 up but I did get it, but then I had to start it lol about 12 or 15 kicks later i got it and finished 7th and ended up 5th overall. I do like the 150's and my dad is going to try to by the one I rode to race supermini and to use as a practice and trail bike. I would never use the TM as a trail rider its too fast and a bit hard on gas.
JonahDowd
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JonahDowd 6/25/2013 9:26pm
6/25/2013 9:26pm
Jack_Wagon wrote:
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now...
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now that the AMA allows the 150 to race in Sr Mini there have been several fast kids switching to them. You see a lot more of them at the bigger races now. Anybody who says the 150s are slow has bumped their head.
I will argue that point too. Maybe you bought a 2013 KTM 85 and now think that it's the fastest 85 but if you don't ride'em you don't know.
Jack_Wagon
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Jack_Wagon 6/25/2013 10:01pm
6/25/2013 10:01pm
Jack_Wagon wrote:
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now...
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now that the AMA allows the 150 to race in Sr Mini there have been several fast kids switching to them. You see a lot more of them at the bigger races now. Anybody who says the 150s are slow has bumped their head.
sharkey wrote:
http://lorettas12.tracksideresults.com/class.asp?s=&e=1&c=26 i agree with the ktm but they are the only manufacturer thats making any improvements.. were better off keeping the 85s the same to keep...
http://lorettas12.tracksideresults.com/class.asp?s=&e=1&c=26

i agree with the ktm but they are the only manufacturer thats making any improvements.. were better off keeping the 85s the same to keep the cost down. we dont need 6k 85s like those ktm 85 sxs. those 150s are too heavy. the results speak for them se
9 of the top 20 are still racing that class this year. 5 are factory supported. Of the 4 left, 2 chose to ride the new KTM. The other two chose to ride 150s.
Jack_Wagon
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Jack_Wagon 6/25/2013 10:10pm
6/25/2013 10:10pm
Jack_Wagon wrote:
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now...
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now that the AMA allows the 150 to race in Sr Mini there have been several fast kids switching to them. You see a lot more of them at the bigger races now. Anybody who says the 150s are slow has bumped their head.
JonahDowd wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/06/25/25551/s1200_Jonah_CRF_1.jpg[/img] This is me this past weekend on a nice CRF 150R and it is a nice fast bike. I got 1st in supermini in a...


This is me this past weekend on a nice CRF 150R and it is a nice fast bike. I got 1st in supermini in a moto and it was fun to ride,BUT my TM is much faster then the CRF and soooooo much lighter. My dad told me to say, " Are you guys CRAZY!!! buy a used bike and restore it ???? By the time you get the motor work, Suspension, wheels and cosmetics you have already spent more then a KTM and you have made the modded out motor unreliable by 70%. Do yourself a favor buy a modern 85 and save money in the long run " But I like the older bikes.... But after you ride a new bike and then get on an older one again it feels like a clunker. sorry thats just our opinion.
Just curious. Why were you racing a 150 when your TM is faster and lighter?
JonahDowd
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JonahDowd 6/26/2013 12:03am
6/26/2013 12:03am Edited Date/Time 6/26/2013 12:08am
Jack_Wagon wrote:
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now...
The 2013 KTM 85 is hands down better than any other 85 offered, but the 150 is head and shoulders faster than any of them. Now that the AMA allows the 150 to race in Sr Mini there have been several fast kids switching to them. You see a lot more of them at the bigger races now. Anybody who says the 150s are slow has bumped their head.
JonahDowd wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/06/25/25551/s1200_Jonah_CRF_1.jpg[/img] This is me this past weekend on a nice CRF 150R and it is a nice fast bike. I got 1st in supermini in a...


This is me this past weekend on a nice CRF 150R and it is a nice fast bike. I got 1st in supermini in a moto and it was fun to ride,BUT my TM is much faster then the CRF and soooooo much lighter. My dad told me to say, " Are you guys CRAZY!!! buy a used bike and restore it ???? By the time you get the motor work, Suspension, wheels and cosmetics you have already spent more then a KTM and you have made the modded out motor unreliable by 70%. Do yourself a favor buy a modern 85 and save money in the long run " But I like the older bikes.... But after you ride a new bike and then get on an older one again it feels like a clunker. sorry thats just our opinion.
Jack_Wagon wrote:
Just curious. Why were you racing a 150 when your TM is faster and lighter?
I normally don't race supermini my dad moved me up to the 12-15 class and were interested in buying a trail bike and my dad wants me to ride a four stroke. I raced the TM in 85 and open mini. I like all the bikes but the Yamaha feels finikee and has no low end. The Suzuki's are ok just not so reliable. I like the KTM's we just wanted somthing different and we only spent a couple hundred more on the TM and got billet tripple clamp,hubs, and the engine on the TM is sweet good power all the way through. I had fun racing the 150 but it is really heavy but has lots of low end rip. I'm not putting down the other bikes I tried them all. Just prefer the TM right now. The KTM's do rip and are high quality you can tell just by looking at them. I did ride a 13 SXS and they are fast but seem to dive into corners. and I havent had good luck with cast hubs and TM comes with the billit ones that makes up for the difference in price to the SXS.
I just want people to know the TM 85 is the real deal. and like my dad says....lets compare apples to apples.
and I know the bike isn't going to win the races for me, thats up to me I did pretty good on my 04 KTM 85 but I feel faster on the TM and I like it.
metal_miracle 6/26/2013 1:24am
6/26/2013 1:24am
Having owned tm85 03 and 100cc 05 and ktm 85 08 +105 cylinder.

I would say that the tm is a better bike, but the ktm`s advantage was less weight.

Don`t know how much weight the tm lost on th 13 model
Tracktor
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Tracktor 6/26/2013 2:04am
6/26/2013 2:04am
If you're spending $5k-$6k building a super mini you're doing something wrong or going way overboard for local racing. Our YZ 105's are fast, reliable and gave plenty of bottom end for my kid but he rides on the pipe. Stock to stock is th TM or akTM a tricker bike? Definitely but thats not to say it's better. I doubt my kids lap times would change if i threw him on one. If they work for you, great but it will be a sad day when the 85 class doubles in price. We see a lot of kids out there racing that wont be able to afford it. .......
Seamorbutts
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Seamorbutts 6/26/2013 5:48am
6/26/2013 5:48am
nytsmaC wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/04/11/tm_728566.jpg[/img]
JonahDowd wrote:
[img]https://p.vitalmx.com/photos/forums/2013/06/25/25544/s1200_Jonah_TM_X_mas1.jpg[/img] This is my 2013 TM 85 MX.. and this baby is up to date. My dad says by the time you buy one of the...




This is my 2013 TM 85 MX.. and this baby is up to date. My dad says by the time you buy one of the other 4 brands and put all the goodies on them, you have more invested then if you spend the money on a TM so we took a chance and got one. I LOVE THIS LITTLE RIPPER !!!!!! way faster then my KTM handles great. it's taking a little getting used to but i love it. We had to re-spring the forks, we sent them to FCR Suspension in Ohio and Bob had them done and back to me in one day. And I feel a little cool knowing I have the only TM 85 in the U.S.! All I know is if you want a nice fully loaded 85 I highly recommend the TM 85.
Not all parents can afford to buy there sons and daughters just any bike. Consider yourself lucky...
MiSledder
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MiSledder 6/26/2013 6:25am
6/26/2013 6:25am
All I see at the track is RM and YZ with a few KTM's and once in awhile a KX but the kid is never fast
Jakes Dad
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Jakes Dad 6/26/2013 8:30am
6/26/2013 8:30am Edited Date/Time 6/26/2013 8:36am
Compare these 2 motors Honda 150R and a TDC 2 Stroke built KTM 110 for the supermini class. His last few KTM's for the regionals are right near 33.5hp. The real story here is the torque curve.



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Denn700 6/26/2013 9:18am
6/26/2013 9:18am
I really like the way the TM. I had a 12 TM300MX. Even though I got hurt really bad on it I still think it is a great bike once you get the suspension dialed in. I sold it to a buddy of mine but I still ride it every now and then. I would love to see MXA do a test with the TM85MX vs the KTM85SXS.

Post a reply to: any 85 updates any time soon?