PED blood doping thread lasted two hours

gotwings
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gotwings 6/7/2013 9:16am
6/7/2013 9:16am
What are the evil PEDS being used,
and where would I get some???
Pm me...
JLong
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JLong 6/7/2013 9:56am
6/7/2013 9:56am
Three can keep a secret if two are dead.
Choppy
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Choppy 6/7/2013 10:25am
6/7/2013 10:25am
It happens in ALL sports so get over it.
Don't act like this sport is above some moral/ethical limit that all the others aren't.
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Outsider 6/7/2013 10:47am
6/7/2013 10:47am Edited Date/Time 6/7/2013 11:06am
Fearo wrote:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/368336-beta-blockers-used-in-sports/

Next time I would actually take the time to, you know, look something up before posting the dumbest response of all time.
Look it up? I take a beta blocker... not helpful for moto.. "IMO"

Edit: In theory it would help but I find too many side effects negate the benefits.

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The Rock
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The Rock 6/7/2013 11:52am
6/7/2013 11:52am Edited Date/Time 6/7/2013 12:12pm
motogrady wrote:
Hey, is the agency that tests here not one of the most respected and through on the planet earth? I'm sorry if the bad guys are...
Hey, is the agency that tests here not one of the most respected and through on the planet earth?

I'm sorry if the bad guys are a step ahead, that doesn't give anyone free hand to make blanket accusations like what we see here, without backing it up.
Everybody knows, the bad guys will always be ahead, so you guys will always bitch.
For what?

And yes , I know what the differences are, what does what.
It's been gone over a thousand times.

And the Lance thing, going back to another era, when all of them we're juicing, I don't agree with that either.
Selective prosecution from sore losers.


Hey guys, I gotta check out till this evening, life calls.

I just feel the OP has an agenda with American MX,
that there is drug testing, from the biggest and most respectable
company out there, and his prim and proper way of discussing things
are merely a guise to discredit the powers that be here in the US.

And because I live in West Virginia has nothing to do with it,
it has to do with the sport. flame on bros.
I don't have an agenda and my only goal is to see MX grow but we are faced with numerous obstacles. One day the injury rate of young racers will come back to bite is in the rear end. This is why I am pro chest protector with spinal protection.

I just as you have in your post am only expressing my opinions. It is purely my opinion our sport turning a blind eye to what is going on with PEDs and blood doping is detrimental to our sport.

Time will tell if I was right or wrong.

Regarding providing specifics I have no motivation or reason to do so. Insiders already know what is up and it isn't my goal or desire to convince any outsiders of anything.

BTW motogrady I am not aware of any sanctioning bodies in West Virginia for SX/MX RE: powers that be. Can you tell us who is this biggest and best testing organization and how often they test outdoor competitors for anything other than recreational drugs.
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FlaNard 6/7/2013 11:53am
6/7/2013 11:53am
Jeff alessi wrote:
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs* First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said...
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs*

First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said the top riders have the funds to acquire the things that make them never get tired. So when your going to try and make a statement try and get one thing right.

The only thing I have left to say is this, if a select few riders are the only riders with safe guards to do what they want and not worry about being penalized for their actions then what makes their accomplishments worthy. We all suffer, they benefit apmost 90% of everything this sport has to give and the worst part is racing gets boring. I'm not going to point fingers but were at the point where amateurs are having to decide at a young age if they want to win or not, and usually this is the direction they take to get there. When you hear that one rider employs a doctor to watch him sleep at night incase his heart stops beating because his heart rate is dropping below 30 bps it becomes unfair to him to even have to take it to that level to win. That's all.
That is INSANE and very sad at the same time.
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WhKnuckle 6/7/2013 12:27pm
6/7/2013 12:27pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2013 12:37pm
Matt Fisher wrote:
Just a sidenote: McCarthy was correct in almost every Communist accusation he made, as revealed by the de-classification of the [u]Soviet's[/u] records after the fall of...
Just a sidenote: McCarthy was correct in almost every Communist accusation he made, as revealed by the de-classification of the Soviet's records after the fall of the USSR.

I now return you all the the rather interesting and informative doping thread.
Virtually none of McCarthys accusations were truthful. Form the George Washington University History Department:

Alleged communist infiltration of government agencies became McCarthy's political calling card. By the 1952 election, he had called Sinologist Owen Lattimore America's "top Russian spy," labeled Secretary of State George C. Marshall "a traitor," nicknamed Secretary of State Dean Acheson the "Red Dean of Fashion," attacked President Truman as a drunkard and "a son of a bitch [who] should be impeached," and repeatedly referred to Democratic nominee Adlai Stevenson as "Alger . . . I mean Adlai." His tactics worked and, when reelected, McCarthy gained the chairmanship of the Senate Committee on Government Operations, a position he used, according to biographer David Oshinksy, "to undermine government morale, damage numerous reputations, and make America look sinister in the eyes of the world." In 1953, McCarthy announced that he would investigate alleged communist infiltration of the U.S. Army and savaged the Army for "coddling Communists."
Disturbed by McCarthy's staccato accusations and worried that he had unjustly damaged the reputation of innocent civilians (as well as the image of the Senate), his senatorial colleagues coalesced to investigate both McCarthy and his allegations. Agreeing with Eisenhower that televised hearings would expose the real McCarthy in a way that print coverage could not, Republican leaders decided to let the cameras inside the chambers to televise the thirty-six day hearings. Forty million viewers watched the Army-McCarthy hearings and the national mood began to turn against the senator when, on June 9, 1954, the audience in the Senate Caucus room applauded army counsel Louis Welch's outburst ("Have you no sense of decency, sir?") after the senator tried to attack Welch's young assistant. Six months later, the Senate voted 67-22 to censure McCarthy.
McCarthy ended his career, lonely and out of the political limelight. He died at the Bethesda Naval Hospital May 2, 1957, from complications due to alcoholism and hepatitis.

So what does that have to do with PEDs in motocross? When people are assumed guilty until proven innocent - particularly when "proof of innocence" is all but impossible - damage is done both to the sport and to the individuals involved. For the record, I imagine that many riders use modest amounts of EPO and possible blood dope for very important races. But as PEDs go, that's not much. Any privateer can buy EPO-stimulation supplements over the counter and they are safe to use. Anybody can have a pint of blood removed in the off season, centrifuged, and reinjected before an important race. I do worry that there may be some serious offenders who are using synthetic HGH and other very dangerous stuff, but I doubt that's very many guys. Does anyone really think Trey Canard is using HGH? How about Ryan Dungey?

Bottom line, if you're at the very pinnacle of the sport, it's a dilemma. If you're racing to get into the top 20, it's not. You want to use a EPO supplement, go ahead. It will help. But the other stuff requires constant supervision of a trainer and a doctor. Top 20 guys don't have that.
KennyT
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KennyT 6/7/2013 12:38pm
6/7/2013 12:38pm
Jeff alessi wrote:
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs* First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said...
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs*

First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said the top riders have the funds to acquire the things that make them never get tired. So when your going to try and make a statement try and get one thing right.

The only thing I have left to say is this, if a select few riders are the only riders with safe guards to do what they want and not worry about being penalized for their actions then what makes their accomplishments worthy. We all suffer, they benefit apmost 90% of everything this sport has to give and the worst part is racing gets boring. I'm not going to point fingers but were at the point where amateurs are having to decide at a young age if they want to win or not, and usually this is the direction they take to get there. When you hear that one rider employs a doctor to watch him sleep at night incase his heart stops beating because his heart rate is dropping below 30 bps it becomes unfair to him to even have to take it to that level to win. That's all.
FlaNard wrote:
That is INSANE and very sad at the same time.
Why is it insane?
2 very equal amateurs come into the Pros at the same time, both known to be very hard workers. One turns into superman while the other is a mere mortal because he chooses to play fair.
FlaNard
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FlaNard 6/7/2013 12:48pm
6/7/2013 12:48pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2013 12:49pm
Jeff alessi wrote:
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs* First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said...
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs*

First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said the top riders have the funds to acquire the things that make them never get tired. So when your going to try and make a statement try and get one thing right.

The only thing I have left to say is this, if a select few riders are the only riders with safe guards to do what they want and not worry about being penalized for their actions then what makes their accomplishments worthy. We all suffer, they benefit apmost 90% of everything this sport has to give and the worst part is racing gets boring. I'm not going to point fingers but were at the point where amateurs are having to decide at a young age if they want to win or not, and usually this is the direction they take to get there. When you hear that one rider employs a doctor to watch him sleep at night incase his heart stops beating because his heart rate is dropping below 30 bps it becomes unfair to him to even have to take it to that level to win. That's all.
FlaNard wrote:
That is INSANE and very sad at the same time.
KennyT wrote:
Why is it insane? 2 very equal amateurs come into the Pros at the same time, both known to be very hard workers. One turns into...
Why is it insane?
2 very equal amateurs come into the Pros at the same time, both known to be very hard workers. One turns into superman while the other is a mere mortal because he chooses to play fair.
I meant more the whole "doctor watching him sleep at night in-case his heart stops beating because his heart rate is dropping below 30 bpm" thing. If true, that's frightening. I understand that all sports have people finding ways to take advantage of the system and to get every ounce out of their body...but damn man. I miss the days of MC and Fro just getting hammered with skanks on boats.
KennyT
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KennyT 6/7/2013 12:53pm
6/7/2013 12:53pm
I got you Fla., sorry for the misunderstanding.
You are right on that. I thought you were calling Jeff insane Smile
It creeps me out, the whole juicing bullshit. I know it's in most sports and if there was ever a sport that you would benefit from it this is the one. Just hate to see uneven playing fields no matter what sport it is.
ocscottie
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ocscottie 6/7/2013 12:54pm
6/7/2013 12:54pm
"I miss the days of MC and Fro just getting hammered with skanks on boats"

Should of seen what some of the riders, privateers i know personally, were putting into their bodys in the 90's...truly horrifying! Ordering sketchy shit from Mexico....scary bro! and that is not "hearsay" or "a friend of a friend told me blah blah blah"
KennyT
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KennyT 6/7/2013 12:59pm
6/7/2013 12:59pm
ocscottie wrote:
[i]"I miss the days of MC and Fro just getting hammered with skanks on boats"[/i] Should of seen what some of the riders, privateers i know...
"I miss the days of MC and Fro just getting hammered with skanks on boats"

Should of seen what some of the riders, privateers i know personally, were putting into their bodys in the 90's...truly horrifying! Ordering sketchy shit from Mexico....scary bro! and that is not "hearsay" or "a friend of a friend told me blah blah blah"
In the 90's? No shit? I had no idea it's been going on that long
GuyB
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GuyB 6/7/2013 1:04pm
6/7/2013 1:04pm
The Rock wrote:
Then got sent to Dumbgeon? What is up with that?
What's up with that is that you were doing okay when you asked if handguards were cool yet. Or chest protectors were cool yet.

Asking if doping is cool yet is like asking if murder is cool yet. Or if kiddie porn is cool yet.

If you want to ask about doping, phrase it in a way that doesn't make you seem like a creeper.
GuyB
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GuyB 6/7/2013 1:06pm
6/7/2013 1:06pm
Jeff alessi wrote:
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs* First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said...
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs*

First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said the top riders have the funds to acquire the things that make them never get tired. So when your going to try and make a statement try and get one thing right.

The only thing I have left to say is this, if a select few riders are the only riders with safe guards to do what they want and not worry about being penalized for their actions then what makes their accomplishments worthy. We all suffer, they benefit apmost 90% of everything this sport has to give and the worst part is racing gets boring. I'm not going to point fingers but were at the point where amateurs are having to decide at a young age if they want to win or not, and usually this is the direction they take to get there. When you hear that one rider employs a doctor to watch him sleep at night incase his heart stops beating because his heart rate is dropping below 30 bps it becomes unfair to him to even have to take it to that level to win. That's all.
FlaNard wrote:
That is INSANE and very sad at the same time.
Right. If it's true.
The Rock
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The Rock 6/7/2013 1:18pm
6/7/2013 1:18pm
KennyT wrote:
Why is it insane? 2 very equal amateurs come into the Pros at the same time, both known to be very hard workers. One turns into...
Why is it insane?
2 very equal amateurs come into the Pros at the same time, both known to be very hard workers. One turns into superman while the other is a mere mortal because he chooses to play fair.
Your post is right on the money and thank you for eloquently hitting the nail squarely on the head. I'm all for trick parts, suspension specialists etc. but draw the line at altering body chemistry with anything that isn't available at GNC or the like.
The Rock
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The Rock 6/7/2013 1:20pm
6/7/2013 1:20pm
GuyB wrote:
What's up with that is that you were doing okay when you asked if handguards were cool yet. Or chest protectors were cool yet. Asking if...
What's up with that is that you were doing okay when you asked if handguards were cool yet. Or chest protectors were cool yet.

Asking if doping is cool yet is like asking if murder is cool yet. Or if kiddie porn is cool yet.

If you want to ask about doping, phrase it in a way that doesn't make you seem like a creeper.
I was just on a roll with the "is it cool" threads and rolled PEDs in but point noted and well taken GuyB. Thank you for the feedback.
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Regis 6/7/2013 3:09pm
6/7/2013 3:09pm
ocscottie wrote:
[i]"I miss the days of MC and Fro just getting hammered with skanks on boats"[/i] Should of seen what some of the riders, privateers i know...
"I miss the days of MC and Fro just getting hammered with skanks on boats"

Should of seen what some of the riders, privateers i know personally, were putting into their bodys in the 90's...truly horrifying! Ordering sketchy shit from Mexico....scary bro! and that is not "hearsay" or "a friend of a friend told me blah blah blah"
KennyT wrote:
In the 90's? No shit? I had no idea it's been going on that long
Yup. Scottie has this right.
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Huckster 6/7/2013 3:47pm
6/7/2013 3:47pm
If you believe using PED's to improve performance is wrong and they are illegal with the sanctioning body, then you should stand up and do something about it. Instead of hinting and making innuendo's, man up and name names. Jose Canseco did it and suffered the consequences. If you make the decision to do nothing, you are part of the problem, plus it comes across as sour grapes....

Pit Row

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englishman
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englishman 6/7/2013 4:59pm
6/7/2013 4:59pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2013 5:03pm
Jeff alessi wrote:
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs* First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said...
Mike Alessi made a blanket statement accusing other riders of using drugs*

First off mike Alessi doesn't go on the Internet, it was me that said the top riders have the funds to acquire the things that make them never get tired. So when your going to try and make a statement try and get one thing right.

The only thing I have left to say is this, if a select few riders are the only riders with safe guards to do what they want and not worry about being penalized for their actions then what makes their accomplishments worthy. We all suffer, they benefit apmost 90% of everything this sport has to give and the worst part is racing gets boring. I'm not going to point fingers but were at the point where amateurs are having to decide at a young age if they want to win or not, and usually this is the direction they take to get there. When you hear that one rider employs a doctor to watch him sleep at night incase his heart stops beating because his heart rate is dropping below 30 bps it becomes unfair to him to even have to take it to that level to win. That's all.
FlaNard wrote:
That is INSANE and very sad at the same time.
GuyB wrote:
Right. If it's true.
The rider that is doing that needs to fire his Doctors ass because the guy clearly hasn't got a fucking clue. The Eastern Europeans figured out the blood thinner ratio almost 2 decades ago so guys didn't have to do that shit. Cyclist were dying of heart attacks left, right & center until they got that worked out.

His heart rate is dropping as a result of his blood getting too thick because his bonehead Dr is shooting him full of EPO and not doing a hematocrit test to check percentages.

Not saying anything against you Jeff, but that tale is so beyond ludicrous in this day and age I'd have to say it's a BS rumor.

BTW: EPO is so easy to get hold of it's stupid, just ask any decent local racing cyclist they'll know who's selling, when I was racing there was a guy in LA to go to , a guy in Colorado, one in Minnesota and another in TJ - probably all still doing it.
ando
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ando 6/7/2013 5:13pm
6/7/2013 5:13pm
Huckster wrote:
If you believe using PED's to improve performance is wrong and they are illegal with the sanctioning body, then you should stand up and do something...
If you believe using PED's to improve performance is wrong and they are illegal with the sanctioning body, then you should stand up and do something about it. Instead of hinting and making innuendo's, man up and name names. Jose Canseco did it and suffered the consequences. If you make the decision to do nothing, you are part of the problem, plus it comes across as sour grapes....
Sure, issues like this are always that clear cut.

Let me use an analogy - you and your family live in a dangerous neighbourhood known to have gangs. You witness or know of a serious crime that has taken place. Do you (a) ring the police giving them all your details and information about who did it, (b) anonymously tip off the police in a way that can't be traced back to you, or (c) shut up and pretend it didn't happen?

According to your viewpoint above, anything other than (a) makes you part of the problem.

For the record, I do believe that using PEDs is wrong. Not only is it fraudulent towards the spectators, sponsors and other stakeholders (financial and non-financial), but it forces a disadvantage onto individuals who don't wish to take chances with substances and methods that can have short and long term health consequences. If a top rider, past or present, was proven to have used PEDs I would have no argument with extreme penalties such as stripping past titles and winnings.

The issue in MX is that the sport is so small that it's unlikely to attract serious attention from competent anti-doping agencies. So it becomes a judgement decision by parties that may know of doping occurring as to whether they take any action. Again, nothing is clear cut.
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DrSweden 6/7/2013 5:43pm
6/7/2013 5:43pm

wazzup!
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Crush 6/7/2013 6:10pm
6/7/2013 6:10pm
This thread needs to be put down.
DanDunes818 6/7/2013 6:39pm
6/7/2013 6:39pm
Every time I see these threads I think, damn, maybe I could win the 40+B class at Mammoth if I got me some of that juice. Not saying I think using performance enhancers is okay, and I have zero knowledge of anyone using the stuff other than hearsay, but I guarantee threads like this add to the problem. They definitely don't help it. I would bet my bank account (which unfortunately isn't much these days) that more than a few kids have read threads on here with dozens of people giving examples of how beneficial steroids would/could be for motocrossers and thought they should give it a try.

Also, I think talking about it before there is a way to prove it is a waste of time and energy.
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E-man811 6/7/2013 6:56pm
6/7/2013 6:56pm
DanDunes818 wrote:
Every time I see these threads I think, damn, maybe I could win the 40+B class at Mammoth if I got me some of that juice...
Every time I see these threads I think, damn, maybe I could win the 40+B class at Mammoth if I got me some of that juice. Not saying I think using performance enhancers is okay, and I have zero knowledge of anyone using the stuff other than hearsay, but I guarantee threads like this add to the problem. They definitely don't help it. I would bet my bank account (which unfortunately isn't much these days) that more than a few kids have read threads on here with dozens of people giving examples of how beneficial steroids would/could be for motocrossers and thought they should give it a try.

Also, I think talking about it before there is a way to prove it is a waste of time and energy.
I think that their whole point is that there IS a way to prove / prevent it and it is not being utilized. Probably because it comes with the presupposition that something IS being done that they have to prove / prevent by properly testing for it.
UpTiTe 6/7/2013 7:05pm
6/7/2013 7:05pm
ocscottie wrote:
[i]"I miss the days of MC and Fro just getting hammered with skanks on boats"[/i] Should of seen what some of the riders, privateers i know...
"I miss the days of MC and Fro just getting hammered with skanks on boats"

Should of seen what some of the riders, privateers i know personally, were putting into their bodys in the 90's...truly horrifying! Ordering sketchy shit from Mexico....scary bro! and that is not "hearsay" or "a friend of a friend told me blah blah blah"
yep, if anyone thinks PEDs is new to the sport, I have a brdge to sell them.
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Outsider 6/7/2013 7:08pm
6/7/2013 7:08pm
DanDunes818 wrote:
Every time I see these threads I think, damn, maybe I could win the 40+B class at Mammoth if I got me some of that juice...
Every time I see these threads I think, damn, maybe I could win the 40+B class at Mammoth if I got me some of that juice. Not saying I think using performance enhancers is okay, and I have zero knowledge of anyone using the stuff other than hearsay, but I guarantee threads like this add to the problem. They definitely don't help it. I would bet my bank account (which unfortunately isn't much these days) that more than a few kids have read threads on here with dozens of people giving examples of how beneficial steroids would/could be for motocrossers and thought they should give it a try.

Also, I think talking about it before there is a way to prove it is a waste of time and energy.
Steroids? Eh...

I agree that bringing this stuff up based on rumors and hearsay is a waste of time and damaging to moto and it's riders... ironic that Rock says he brings it up because he loves the sport.
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The Rock 6/7/2013 7:35pm
6/7/2013 7:35pm Edited Date/Time 6/7/2013 7:36pm
Okay I now understand we actually don't have a PED issue in our sport but the real problem is starting threads about this topic. Please forgive me for getting Lord knows how many young racers thinking about PEDs. For sure they would never be exposed to them if not for MX forums.

Seriously you guys need to man up. I think it is more damaging that this topic continues to be the worst kept secret in our sport.

The defintion of insanity is repeating the same thing and expecting a different result. Until we stop acting like this really isn't an issue nothing is going to change. BTW one rider talked to me about this last year but I didn't post anything. Combination of Jeff Alessi's post and the phone call from my buddy on Monday were the catalysts for starting a thread on the subject.
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Outsider 6/7/2013 7:43pm
6/7/2013 7:43pm
What did your buddy tell you? You haven't offered up anything... "man up" and give us something to discuss.
The Rock
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The Rock 6/7/2013 8:11pm
6/7/2013 8:11pm
You can look at my OP in the is it cool thread in the Dumbgeon for what my buddy said if you are interested.

Personally I got beat up enough earlier for my sound stance that I'm not willing to be the whipping post on this subject. Sooner or later this topic hopefully will be addressed with proper testing procedures. Until then at least I can't be accused of being an ostrich.
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jmar 6/7/2013 8:24pm
6/7/2013 8:24pm
The AMA has no testing in place that would matter. It's not like we are dealing with the USADA here.

Is there cheating going on? Yes there is. But the testing procedures in place are a joke compared to other sports.

Post a reply to: PED blood doping thread lasted two hours