VP110 or C12 for 125 and 250 two-strokes?

kx254f
Posts
290
Joined
7/15/2009
Location
Auburn, ME US
Edited Date/Time 11/13/2017 3:24pm
I sponsor a rider who is currently racing a YZ125 and YZ250. I'm looking for opinions, suggestions, and experience with these two fuels from VP. We run Amsoil dominator premix and am looking to run one of these fuels 50/50 with 93 pump gas.

Thanks in advance!
|
CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
5/2/2013 10:18pm
C12 is the best 2-stroke fuel. You need to raise the compression to really take advantage of it.
5/2/2013 10:28pm Edited Date/Time 5/3/2013 4:56pm
Any of you guys try the vpr 100 leaded? I have been running that straight and it seems to run pretty good in my smoker.
gyd58
Posts
74
Joined
9/7/2011
Location
AL US
5/3/2013 4:25am
VP MRX02 or Renegade SX2, both are specifically blended for use in 2 strokes.
motofab36
Posts
1425
Joined
4/1/2008
Location
Cowden, IL US
5/3/2013 5:13am
Renegade Pro 110+ or as gyd58 said the Renegade SX2

The Shop

dogger315
Posts
309
Joined
11/22/2010
Location
CA US
5/3/2013 8:29am
Both the 110 and C12 are leaded which is beneficial for a two stroke. The 110 is less expensive than C12 and
will work fine cut 50/50 with premium pump gas yielding an octane rating over 100. As I'm sure you already
know, It's a good idea to secure a source of ethanol free pump gas for the mix.

The MRX02 and SX2 are both oxygenated and expensive. VP claims the MRX02 is legal for AMA Pro/Am,
but I'm pretty sure oxygenated fuel is not legal for AMA pro racing. The Renegade 110+ is also leaded and
another good choice.

I have used all of the above fuels straight and cut and it's all good quality.

Other things to keep in mind: What access to the fuel do you have, shipping cost (if needed), drum size, shelf
life, etc. As the one paying the bills, these underlying cost and considerations should also figure into your
decision on brand and type.

dogger
1
gyd58
Posts
74
Joined
9/7/2011
Location
AL US
5/3/2013 9:29pm
Oxygenated fuel is legal for AMA Pro racing. VP Pro6 and Renegade SX4+ are the top legal fuels for AMA Pro racing that everyone can get and both are oxygenated. The % of oxygen is limited in AMA Pro racing not it's use.

MRX02 is leaded which is not allowed in AMA Pro racing and contains more oxygen than allowed in AMA Pro racing but it is legal in Amateur racing and Pro/Am events.

If the op is looking for performance he should get the oxygenated fuel for 2 strokes and if he just wants fuel safe for a 2 stroke and cheap then the C12 or 110. In my experience, straight C12 or 110 make less power on the dyno than 93 pump and 50/50 mix with pump. We use C12 or 110 to put in bikes after we drain the oxygenated fuel and then run them a few minutes for storing until the next ride.
1
gyd58
Posts
74
Joined
9/7/2011
Location
AL US
5/4/2013 3:11am
VPR is a good budget fuel choice. Solid performance in 4 strokes at much less than Pro6 or MR12. I would also rather run VPR than C12 or 110 in a 2 stroke. I know a lot of people running it and it's unleaded counterpart VP T4.
sesker15
Posts
1054
Joined
4/14/2008
Location
Upper Marlboro, MD US
8/16/2013 8:07pm
Any of you guys try the vpr 100 leaded? I have been running that straight and it seems to run pretty good in my smoker.
What bike are you running Vpr in? Did you have to reject your bike for it. I'm thinking about running it in my 2stroke.
JW381
Posts
10639
Joined
7/21/2009
Location
Harrisburg, OR US
8/17/2013 9:04am
Does anyone else run Sunoco leaded 110? I have it available at a pump so it's kind of a no-brainer.

Lady looked at me so weird when I bought a half gallon the other day haha it was all the premix I had left in a little bottle and I just wanted to put it to use! Laughing
CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
8/18/2013 6:01am
JW381 wrote:
Does anyone else run Sunoco leaded 110? I have it available at a pump so it's kind of a no-brainer. Lady looked at me so weird...
Does anyone else run Sunoco leaded 110? I have it available at a pump so it's kind of a no-brainer.

Lady looked at me so weird when I bought a half gallon the other day haha it was all the premix I had left in a little bottle and I just wanted to put it to use! Laughing
Sunoco 110 works well in 2-strokes.
8/18/2013 5:54pm
Any of you guys try the vpr 100 leaded? I have been running that straight and it seems to run pretty good in my smoker.
sesker15 wrote:
What bike are you running Vpr in? Did you have to reject your bike for it. I'm thinking about running it in my 2stroke.
Was running it in my cr250 two stroke. Fiddled with the jetting just a little. Seem to run real well on it.
JW381
Posts
10639
Joined
7/21/2009
Location
Harrisburg, OR US
8/28/2013 8:56pm
Doesn't VP come out of Venezuela? My dad left a note in the "suggestion box" at an indoor practice AX track regarding their "communist dictator who hates America" haha. He cracks me up.
Beast666
Posts
682
Joined
8/13/2013
Location
Englewood, CO US
8/29/2013 6:08am
JW381 wrote:
Doesn't VP come out of Venezuela? My dad left a note in the "suggestion box" at an indoor practice AX track regarding their "communist dictator who...
Doesn't VP come out of Venezuela? My dad left a note in the "suggestion box" at an indoor practice AX track regarding their "communist dictator who hates America" haha. He cracks me up.
VP is based out of Texas. The wells and refinery are located in the panhandle of TX north of Amarillo.

As for C12 in a 2 stroke it works quite well but a few things here to note.

In a stock or slightly modified 2 stroke you are wasting your money. The engine needs to be modified to the hilt to get all that you can out of it I.E. Porting, Pipe, Carb, Ignition and compression. To get the best results you will need to fine tune the engine on a dyno to get the jetting and timing fine tuned to get the best results.

One other thing to remember with a 2 stroke is the oil and how much you use in your premix. Most riders like to use less oil thinking that they are making more power with it, The fact is more oil equals more HP as it improves the ring seal and allows the engine to run cooler.

One other person noted that 2 strokes need leaded fuel. Not true. The lead is a cushioning agent for valves that do not have hardened seats. As a smoker does not have valves that open and close to let air in and exhaust out it is not needed. The one thing lead does is it also increases octane levels in a fuel. When working with a leaded race fuel always make sure to wear protective gloves and safety glasses as the lead can be absorbed thru the skin.
1
8/29/2013 9:01am
JW381 wrote:
Doesn't VP come out of Venezuela? My dad left a note in the "suggestion box" at an indoor practice AX track regarding their "communist dictator who...
Doesn't VP come out of Venezuela? My dad left a note in the "suggestion box" at an indoor practice AX track regarding their "communist dictator who hates America" haha. He cracks me up.
That's Citgo.
Jakes Dad
Posts
1865
Joined
6/22/2009
Location
Brooksville, FL US
8/30/2013 3:26am
If the motors need that much octane run it. I went 3 months mixing Sunoco 110 with pump fuel and 3 months prior to that I used Phillips 100LL. When using the Phillips straight much cleaner and easier to read spark plugs and more consistant jetting. The dyno supports the Phillips 100LL also, with a motor utilizing the proper octane fuel.

Tried the U4.4 and Jake said he really couldn't tell a difference, pulled through the corner the same and shift points stayed the same. Testing on the same track using different fuels, did have to go 1 richer on the oxy fuel.
4/8/2015 7:53am
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock, but can order anything I want.

This post is a couple years old so I'm curious whether I should stick with VP110 or whether one of the newer blends would be better. I'm less concerned with power as I am with having a longer lasting race fuel (compared to other race fuels).

So, 2015 - still run VP110 or C12, or something else?
captmoto
Posts
5807
Joined
4/22/2009
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA US
4/8/2015 9:45am
I'm running C12 and 91 pump at 50/50 in an 05 CR250 and 81 YZ465. I ran straight Avgas until a local airport shutdown. I'm not looking for an octane boost but looking to get away from all the clean air additives and alcohol in gas. Both bikes run a lot crisper with the avgas and the C12/pump mix. The YZ465 starts easier too. Both bikes pinged and rattled on California pump gas.
JBernard_401
Posts
1317
Joined
10/29/2013
Location
Boulder, CO US
4/8/2015 3:56pm
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock...
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock, but can order anything I want.

This post is a couple years old so I'm curious whether I should stick with VP110 or whether one of the newer blends would be better. I'm less concerned with power as I am with having a longer lasting race fuel (compared to other race fuels).

So, 2015 - still run VP110 or C12, or something else?
VP110 is MORE than enough for that bike. can even cut it with ethanol free pump and be fine, or 100LL avgas.
i run it straight, and since its almost HALF the cost of C12 its a no brainer.
no reason to run mrx02, c12, c16, ect unless you have an engine built and need it. 15-25$ a gal gas adds up, quick.
dogger315
Posts
309
Joined
11/22/2010
Location
CA US
4/9/2015 8:41am
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock...
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock, but can order anything I want.

This post is a couple years old so I'm curious whether I should stick with VP110 or whether one of the newer blends would be better. I'm less concerned with power as I am with having a longer lasting race fuel (compared to other race fuels).

So, 2015 - still run VP110 or C12, or something else?
Like others have said, you can use one of the higher octanes and cut it with ethanol free pump gas, or you might look into
trying VP T2. It's leaded, oxygenated and has a MON of 101 which should be more than enough for your application. I
don't know what it cost, but might be worth a try. I would give VP a call and tell them what you have and see what they
recommend. Their tech people are real helpful.

dogger
CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
4/9/2015 9:51am
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock...
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock, but can order anything I want.

This post is a couple years old so I'm curious whether I should stick with VP110 or whether one of the newer blends would be better. I'm less concerned with power as I am with having a longer lasting race fuel (compared to other race fuels).

So, 2015 - still run VP110 or C12, or something else?
If you have stock compression, the best bang for the buck is 100LL avgas. You can get it for as little as $3.95/gal in the atlanta area.

https://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html
sesker15
Posts
1054
Joined
4/14/2008
Location
Upper Marlboro, MD US
4/9/2015 12:22pm
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock...
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock, but can order anything I want.

This post is a couple years old so I'm curious whether I should stick with VP110 or whether one of the newer blends would be better. I'm less concerned with power as I am with having a longer lasting race fuel (compared to other race fuels).

So, 2015 - still run VP110 or C12, or something else?
Like Dogger said, Try the new VP T2 fuel! I run it in my stock yz125. Its pretty good. 65 bucks for 5 gals. Its oxygenated so you might have to go up one on your main and pilot jets. Oh yea it smells great. lol
4/9/2015 8:16pm
Just picked up a can of VP110. @CamP, saw your post a little too late. Will look for av gas next go round.

Quick question.. I'm installing a RAD valve in an essentially brand new 89 KX125 motor (literally new everything except for the replated cylinder and cases). OEM expansion chamber & freshly packed silencer.

Boyesen recommends stepping down between 1 and 3 on the main and putting the needle at the middle position for starters. I moved down from a 155 main to a 150.

Will I need to readjust on account of the VP110? Plan to run Klotz R-50 at either 32:1 or 40:1.
MotoX85
Posts
2199
Joined
10/9/2011
Location
Centralia, IL US
4/12/2015 11:47am
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock...
I need some fuel for a mostly stock vintage KX125. Only mod is a Boyesen RAD valve. My local shop has VP110 and C12 in stock, but can order anything I want.

This post is a couple years old so I'm curious whether I should stick with VP110 or whether one of the newer blends would be better. I'm less concerned with power as I am with having a longer lasting race fuel (compared to other race fuels).

So, 2015 - still run VP110 or C12, or something else?
CamP wrote:
If you have stock compression, the best bang for the buck is 100LL avgas. You can get it for as little as $3.95/gal in the atlanta...
If you have stock compression, the best bang for the buck is 100LL avgas. You can get it for as little as $3.95/gal in the atlanta area.

https://www.airnav.com/fuel/local.html
You just have to find a way to burn the anti-gel, de-icer and about 3 other fuel stabilizers.

Also:
AvGas is blended for large-bore, long-stroke, low RPM engines which run at high altitude. While AvGas' higher octane is useful, smaller-bore, shorter-stroke, high RPM engines will perform better on racing fuel or high quality octane boosters. AvGas has lower volatility so when used in proportions higher than about 40%, part-throttle drivability and cold starts may be compromised. AvGas has a lower specific gravity so it will require a change in air-fuel ratio calibration for the engine to perform at its best.

Also, and this is going to sound weird, Avgas is very "dry" feeling and have noticed that if you run it then you need to run a lot more pre-mix than a normal race fuel. I would never run anything lower than 32:1 using Avgas.

You can get Renegade 110 for about $7 a gallon at the pump in the Midwest. It would be safer than Avgas

However, if you have not had any engine work, higher compression to be exact, race fuel will basically do nothing for you besides just being consistent and no alcohol mixed in like at the pump.

We have to run straight C12 in our 125 because it is a built motor but in my 250 I just add 1 gallon of Renegade to 4 gallons of 93 octane strictly for detonation purposes only. In the stock 250 motor I have thrown the C12 in there just because it was the only thing we had at the time and could not tell any difference in performance from the 93 octane pump gas
Jakes Dad
Posts
1865
Joined
6/22/2009
Location
Brooksville, FL US
4/12/2015 4:39pm
Wheew "anti gel and de-icer" stuff, sounds important down here in Florida. Been using Phillips 100LL near 5 years now, mostly in motors around 15.5 to 16 to 1 (uncorrected) compression ratio's. The TDC 2 Stroke dyno yields good results on it also.
1
Mx746
Posts
531
Joined
11/30/2010
Location
Marietta, GA US
4/12/2015 7:22pm
100ll has a very low specific gravity, wouldn't this be a concern? Im currently using vp ms98l its running perfect in my stock yz250.
CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
4/13/2015 6:26am Edited Date/Time 4/13/2015 6:35am
Mx746 wrote:
100ll has a very low specific gravity, wouldn't this be a concern? Im currently using vp ms98l its running perfect in my stock yz250.
100LL and C12 have the same specific gravity. It is not an issue unless you use a castor based oil at low temps.

All the criticism of avgas is totally unfounded and perpetuated by people that have never used it.
4/13/2015 10:30am
Why is it that when I ran race gas in my KX250 smoker it always felt snappier and wheelied much easier than on straight pump gas? It was a stock engine apart from the PC pipe.
CamP
Posts
6826
Joined
8/16/2006
Location
Colleyville, TX US
4/13/2015 12:28pm
Why is it that when I ran race gas in my KX250 smoker it always felt snappier and wheelied much easier than on straight pump gas...
Why is it that when I ran race gas in my KX250 smoker it always felt snappier and wheelied much easier than on straight pump gas? It was a stock engine apart from the PC pipe.
Race fuel typically has a much lower distillation curve compared to pump gas. A lower 10% evaporation point improves throttle response.

Post a reply to: VP110 or C12 for 125 and 250 two-strokes?

The Latest