Herniated disk

1/4/2012 7:59am
Had 2 herniated discs three years ago, lower back. Brutal pain, 3 hours per night if I was lucky. Pain was too much to deal with...
Had 2 herniated discs three years ago, lower back. Brutal pain, 3 hours per night if I was lucky. Pain was too much to deal with, I was checking surgeons who wanted to "pull the shrimp" as they called it. Anyway, an inversion table, pt, and walking 2 or three miles per day until I could run again finally permitted me to avoid surgery. Remember, discs do regenerate. I can understand surgery because the sciatica pain was so brutal..Thumpertalk has a bunch of posts on this. Here's a youtube of a guy drinking a 24oz beer upside down on his inversion table. Good luck, avoid surgery!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGoBhXym-tQ
Discs regenerate? I have never heard that. If they did, why do people have surgery at all then? I just googled disc regeneration, and I didn't...
Discs regenerate?

I have never heard that. If they did, why do people have surgery at all then? I just googled disc regeneration, and I didn't see anywhere that it is possible. Where did you get this info?
Udog, Sorry for the late reply, I was told that discs are filled with fluid and bulge from pain, and that they do over time mend themselves. I didn't do any direct research this was explained to me by my physical therapist. The pain is what pushes people towards surgery, I can't blame them either, but the longer you hold off, you at least have a chance of things fixing themselves, but again, sometimes the pain is too great, and people do sometimes have good results from going under the knife.
4/3/2013 8:46pm
So it's time for an update. I got very sick in February... virus. Coughed my head off. Somehow managed to tweak my back again. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago. Had signifigant pain, had x-rays and the orthopaedic doc said likely bulged or herniated disc (I think at L5/S1). Prescribed Prednisone, which I went though in about a week. Felt good until I came off the steroid.. Then pain city.

I'm in PT now, but like an earlier poster said if I stay in one place for long I "lock up" - about 10 seconds after standing up I almost fall down from pain.

Thought to hell with it, and crunk up the KX this weekend. Rode around my backyard for about 10 minutes -- no new pain, but didn't really help it go away. Getting in and out of my truck is painful.

PT is a lot of stretching and low-impact excersize. Right hamstring very tight, and it's painful to lift up with the green strappy thing they have.

Surgery scares the crap out of me, what with the MRSAs and superbugs.

There is a newer technique than microdiscectomy called "Percutaneous discectomy", which is basically a diskectomy done through a cannula - no incision, no cutting through muscle or bone. The procedure is done under local not general anesthesia. Takes a few mins, then when done they simply put a small bandage (band-aide) to cover the little puncture wound.

Unfortunately, I can't find a provider who does the Perc discectomy near me and who takes my insurance.

Pain sucks. If push comes to shove I'll have the surgery. I'm not going to live like this the rest of my life.
observer
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4/3/2013 10:49pm
A lot of people(particularly young guys)don't really realize what they're doing to there backs(and joints) in there younger years.
We (ex)moto guys beat the hell out of our backs racing, riding hard-and working, only to find out later in our older years the wear and tear has caught up with us.

I'm 55 now........used to race pretty hard in my younger years, later working in comml aviation changing eng components, tires/brakes on aircraft that weigh a lot more than I had business trying to lift/move around without proper maint handling eqpt-are making me pay the price big time now. Seems like when I hit 50, my physical ability took a significant nose dive. Every morning when I get up, I feel like I'm 80 years old. Chemicals probably played a role in some of this too...
I have lower back issues right at the beltline. Stenosis(suspected), arthritis, slight bulging of a couple discs(not bad-but enough to get your attention-constant nagging pain-2 ea Aleve anti-inflam helps), which irriatates the nerve endings-which causes all kinds of issues with stiff sore muscles all up my back. I see a chiro every 2 wks. He's an ex PT guy-massages before he stretches/adjusts. Helps, but no cure.

But like prev stated, if I don't stay active, I stiffen up. Riding actually helps(or even mtn biking)...but if I put in a long trail ride, I PAY FOR IT-esp if the terrain is rough. I guess I'm just getting old. But if nothing else, please guys, try and take care of yourselves when you're younger. As you age, you'll reap what you sow.
The Rock
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4/4/2013 2:33am
queenofspodes-Can you swim? Preferably take a Jacuzzi prior to swimming to get loosened up. This was my drill for years at the YMCA until I moved out in the boonies. Your right hamstring being tight is one of the reasons your back is hurting. Have to keep them both stretched out otherwise the pelvis gets tilted and things go downhill quick.

observer-Inversion table? You offer some great advice about taking care of yourself.

I have been taking Tumeric now and can't say enough about its anti inflammatory properties. My joints especially my wrists improved a lot when I stopped drinking a Red Bull every day.

The Shop

crf450drvr
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Fairfax, VA, USA
4/4/2013 3:32am
I'm 52 yo and my spine is a mess, mostly from 20+years of abuse in the military. I have degenerative disk disease, L1-5 are bulging. L1 vertebrae fracture and C7 disk removed years ago due to separate parachute incidents. Here's what works for me and keeps me mostly pain free and able to still ride. Surgery should always be a last resort.

Find an anti inflammatory that works for you and take it regularly. I take meloxicam 15mg daily.

Work out regularly. Inactivity/sitting is the worst thing for my lower back.

If I have a flair up, ice it asap. After any workout/ride that's especially hard on my lower back, as a preventive measure i'll take an ice bath. Grab a few bags of ice, throw in the tub with water and soak for 15 min. It only sucks for the first minute or so, then you don't notice the cold anymore.

The most helpful routine that I've found in years is http://foundationtraining.com/home/. I incorporate some part of foundation training in whatever workout routine I do on a given day, and as a minimum, I do the "founder" stretch routine before and after riding. I first read about Foundation Training when Chad Reed mentioned it in a tweet a year or so ago, then RacerX mentioned it in a fitness article they did awhile back. Try it, you won't regret it...
dkg
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4/4/2013 9:52am
Lots of good comments, I had a partner with a 6mm disk. Every doctor was recommending surgery. Before doing it, he tried the Egoscue Method and lost weight. Did the trick for him. Went from chronic pain to basically pain free. I'd suggest this method for anyone prior to contemplating surgery. It is kind of a kinesiology based approach.
motokid40
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4/4/2013 9:54am
mark_swart wrote:
I get the epidural steroid shots periodically for back pain. My discs do not herniate, but sometimes tear and then the nerves get irritated. No pain...
I get the epidural steroid shots periodically for back pain. My discs do not herniate, but sometimes tear and then the nerves get irritated. No pain down my legs, it's all there in the back.
Did a doctor determine that you have a herniated disc, or is it something you have just concluded based on symptoms? I recommend the MRI if possible, that allowed them to see the problems in mine when X-rays could not.
This^^^^^^^! Epidural fixed me pretty good after a MRI, first shot worked for a month, next one they did the next notch down and have been painless since!
motosmith
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4/4/2013 10:35am
The one and only time I've ever quit a moto was because of a herniated disk. Couldnt handle the pain and pulled off the track.

Massive dose of Neproxen and extreem hot and cold packs directly on the location. Seems to get the blood flowing to that area. Works for me.
flyinb501
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4/4/2013 2:49pm
So it's time for an update. I got very sick in February... virus. Coughed my head off. Somehow managed to tweak my back again. Fast forward...
So it's time for an update. I got very sick in February... virus. Coughed my head off. Somehow managed to tweak my back again. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago. Had signifigant pain, had x-rays and the orthopaedic doc said likely bulged or herniated disc (I think at L5/S1). Prescribed Prednisone, which I went though in about a week. Felt good until I came off the steroid.. Then pain city.

I'm in PT now, but like an earlier poster said if I stay in one place for long I "lock up" - about 10 seconds after standing up I almost fall down from pain.

Thought to hell with it, and crunk up the KX this weekend. Rode around my backyard for about 10 minutes -- no new pain, but didn't really help it go away. Getting in and out of my truck is painful.

PT is a lot of stretching and low-impact excersize. Right hamstring very tight, and it's painful to lift up with the green strappy thing they have.

Surgery scares the crap out of me, what with the MRSAs and superbugs.

There is a newer technique than microdiscectomy called "Percutaneous discectomy", which is basically a diskectomy done through a cannula - no incision, no cutting through muscle or bone. The procedure is done under local not general anesthesia. Takes a few mins, then when done they simply put a small bandage (band-aide) to cover the little puncture wound.

Unfortunately, I can't find a provider who does the Perc discectomy near me and who takes my insurance.

Pain sucks. If push comes to shove I'll have the surgery. I'm not going to live like this the rest of my life.
I basically went through the same thing a couple months ago. I've had a bad lower back for about ten years, and I was just bending over to pick something up, and on the way down my back went out on me. L4-L5, and L5-S1 herniated discs. I couldn't go to work for a week, and I just work in an office. What saved me was the epidural shots, physical therapy, lots of ice, advil, and my inversion table. Also, check out the Mckenzie Technique. It's just some stretches that will help coax that disc back into place. I do these several times a day. The inversion table is key also.

Now I'm better than I was before my injury, but I am much more careful. I don't pick up a pencil without lifting with my legs. I'm back to lifting heavy weights in the gym, but I've eliminated most exercises that would have you bending forward. This type of movement just causes the discs to bulge out the back of the spine. The easiest things you can do for yourself would be the McKenzie technique stretches, ice, and in inversion table in my opinion. If you have the means look into an MRI, shots, and physical therapy.
observer
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4/4/2013 4:10pm
The Rock wrote:
queenofspodes-Can you swim? Preferably take a Jacuzzi prior to swimming to get loosened up. This was my drill for years at the YMCA until I moved...
queenofspodes-Can you swim? Preferably take a Jacuzzi prior to swimming to get loosened up. This was my drill for years at the YMCA until I moved out in the boonies. Your right hamstring being tight is one of the reasons your back is hurting. Have to keep them both stretched out otherwise the pelvis gets tilted and things go downhill quick.

observer-Inversion table? You offer some great advice about taking care of yourself.

I have been taking Tumeric now and can't say enough about its anti inflammatory properties. My joints especially my wrists improved a lot when I stopped drinking a Red Bull every day.
"when I stopped drinking a Red Bull every day."

Scottie says "BLASPHEMY!"
I'm looking into an inversion table Wink
4/4/2013 6:16pm
flyinb501 wrote:
I basically went through the same thing a couple months ago. I've had a bad lower back for about ten years, and I was just bending...
I basically went through the same thing a couple months ago. I've had a bad lower back for about ten years, and I was just bending over to pick something up, and on the way down my back went out on me. L4-L5, and L5-S1 herniated discs. I couldn't go to work for a week, and I just work in an office. What saved me was the epidural shots, physical therapy, lots of ice, advil, and my inversion table. Also, check out the Mckenzie Technique. It's just some stretches that will help coax that disc back into place. I do these several times a day. The inversion table is key also.

Now I'm better than I was before my injury, but I am much more careful. I don't pick up a pencil without lifting with my legs. I'm back to lifting heavy weights in the gym, but I've eliminated most exercises that would have you bending forward. This type of movement just causes the discs to bulge out the back of the spine. The easiest things you can do for yourself would be the McKenzie technique stretches, ice, and in inversion table in my opinion. If you have the means look into an MRI, shots, and physical therapy.
Just watched a couple vids on McKenzie and it sounds nice.. my PT has had me do a little of that but mostly strengthening & stretching. I don't understand the mechanics of moving pain to your back, then poof making it go away. Sounds like this is just putting a band-aid on it, and it could easily revert back.
4/4/2013 6:18pm
About that inversion table.. are they all made for people that are like 5' 5" tall? I'm extra tall and hate to throw away $100-200 on a device that doesn't work due to my height.
The Rock
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4/4/2013 6:36pm
Most of them adjust from about five feet to six six at least. I can check mine out when I get home tonight. Are there any Relax the Back stores in your area to get a demo? Best place to buy is at costco as you can get a Teeters model for about 220 or a cheapie model at a Big 5 or like store for 110. Both do the same thing but construction quality is the difference plus the foot locking device is more comfortable on the 220 model.
Stanford
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4/4/2013 6:56pm
I had an L5/S1 herniation that was compressing the nerve. The pain was almost unbearable for about three or four months. Could barely walk and even simple tasks like putting on shoes and socks was almost impossible. I was given hydrocodone for about two months and it provided almost no relief at all (it would take the pain from an 8 to a 7. And why people get hooked on that stuff is beyond me - it did NOTHING for me). I was finally scheduled for a diskectomy in October. After waking up from the 45 minute surgery I was immediately and completely pain free. I have a one inch scar that is barely noticeable. The recovery was very easy - I didn't even have any real pain at the point of surgery. The surgery was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm cautious now about my back as I never want to go through that again.

Observer was right - all that stuff we all did in our youth definitely catches up with us later. I'll watch guys at work and just think if they only knew what they were doing to their backs they wouldn't do it.

Good luck-I hope you can find relief.
flyinb501
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4/5/2013 5:33am Edited Date/Time 4/5/2013 5:35am
Just watched a couple vids on McKenzie and it sounds nice.. my PT has had me do a little of that but mostly strengthening & stretching...
Just watched a couple vids on McKenzie and it sounds nice.. my PT has had me do a little of that but mostly strengthening & stretching. I don't understand the mechanics of moving pain to your back, then poof making it go away. Sounds like this is just putting a band-aid on it, and it could easily revert back.
These are basically the two McKenzie stretches I do throughout the day. The standing one at work, and the laying down one at home. 10 - 20 reps several times a day. If you look at pictures of the spine and understand how your disc is bulging it will make more sense. Discs tend to bulge out the back of your spine because 99% of the bending we are doing throughout the day is forward bending. My physical therapist, neck and back doctor, and chiropractor all agree that the McKenzie technique and the inversion table are a good idea.



How tall are you? I believe my cheapo inversion table goes up to 6' 6". You can get a cheap one for just over $100, but the ankle holders won't be as comfortable. I highly recommend one though. It acts just like traction, and takes all that pressure of your discs, and allows them to decompress.
flyinb501
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4/5/2013 5:37am
Stanford wrote:
I had an L5/S1 herniation that was compressing the nerve. The pain was almost unbearable for about three or four months. Could barely walk and even...
I had an L5/S1 herniation that was compressing the nerve. The pain was almost unbearable for about three or four months. Could barely walk and even simple tasks like putting on shoes and socks was almost impossible. I was given hydrocodone for about two months and it provided almost no relief at all (it would take the pain from an 8 to a 7. And why people get hooked on that stuff is beyond me - it did NOTHING for me). I was finally scheduled for a diskectomy in October. After waking up from the 45 minute surgery I was immediately and completely pain free. I have a one inch scar that is barely noticeable. The recovery was very easy - I didn't even have any real pain at the point of surgery. The surgery was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm cautious now about my back as I never want to go through that again.

Observer was right - all that stuff we all did in our youth definitely catches up with us later. I'll watch guys at work and just think if they only knew what they were doing to their backs they wouldn't do it.

Good luck-I hope you can find relief.
I agree. I see people at the gym all the time doing things that are just terrible for your back. Sometimes I'm tempted to tell them haha. I wish I would've known all the stuff I know now when I was younger. My back would be in much better shape today.
GFMM647
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Keene, NH, USA
4/5/2013 8:00am
I have had a herniated disc for quite a while now. When it happened, I was actually working on my bike leaning over it when it went. Most painful thing I have ever felt in my life. Dropped me right to the floor. Could barely walk or move around. Went to the doctor and had an MRI done, which just confirmed what the doctor thought it was. Started PT shortly after MRI. I forget how many weeks I went to PT before I went back to see a specialist, who my doctor wanted me to follow up with. He said as long as I was getting better there was no need for surgery. He said they actually don't like to perform surgery unless absolutely necessary. The back will heal itself. The "jelly" that got pushed out, the body will remove and repair the tear in the disc. So I followed my PT's instructions and continued to do the exercises even after the visits stopped. Began a new workout routine and focused on my core more and have been great ever since. Still feel the spot in my back every once in awhile but nothing that slows me down. All I can tell you is follow your PT's instructions and do the exercises and stretches they recommend for you to do. And do them as much as you can. Core strength is so important in your backs health. Once you are able, work with them or a certified trainer and get a good all over body/core workout routine written down. And do it. Also think when you lift or are moving around. Use your legs, squat to lift. Avoid carrying something and twisting if you can. It makes a huge difference. Your back will thank you.
FLmxer
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Fantasy
4/5/2013 10:49am Edited Date/Time 4/5/2013 10:51am
Nerve memory is a bad deal so you want to get it fixed. I was scared as hell after I burst two discs, bulged two and fractured my L3 all the way across. I also had a bulging disc since i was a kid that would put me out of commision a few times a year and have me hunched over after riding. I felt like someone had a blow torch on my leg down to my toes when i crashed. I had the microdisectomy and am 100 percent pain free since and I have done the Leatt test a few times so I know I'm good. A bulging disc pinches the nerve and gets inflamed which crushes it more and keeps the cycle going unless you get fixed.
The Rock
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4/5/2013 10:50am
My cheap table goes up to six foot eight. My Relax the Back model is in my storage unit in Redondo Beach so I can't access it right now. The nice thing about the Relax the Back models is they tear down in less than a minute and same for putting it up but ideally you will find a spot that the table can be set up and left in place.

I have mine set up in my office just to the right of my desk and I use it first thing in the AM and last thing in the evening.
FLmxer
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Fantasy
4/5/2013 11:00am Edited Date/Time 4/5/2013 11:04am
I have the inversion tables and used to go to physical therapy and had to be careful twisting and lifting but screw that. I am a motocross racer and careful does not work in my world so i am glad i got fixed and wish success and comfort for all of you. It has been a few years and no issues. I surf, wakeboard, kiteboard and flatland triples all day with no issues now even at 40...ish. Before surgery i had to be a bit more careful.
The Rock
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4/5/2013 11:29am
I have listed this before and will do it again for those of you that may have missed it. The Vax D traction table is what kept me from having surgery.

You can put in your zip code to see if there is a table near you. I've used my inversion table for maintenance and the Vax D for episodes plus will get on the table every few months whether I need it or not just to be on the safe side.
The Rock
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4/5/2013 12:15pm
In addition to its anti inflammatory properties here is another reason to be taking Tumeric
4/5/2013 8:00pm
Stanford wrote:
I had an L5/S1 herniation that was compressing the nerve. The pain was almost unbearable for about three or four months. Could barely walk and even...
I had an L5/S1 herniation that was compressing the nerve. The pain was almost unbearable for about three or four months. Could barely walk and even simple tasks like putting on shoes and socks was almost impossible. I was given hydrocodone for about two months and it provided almost no relief at all (it would take the pain from an 8 to a 7. And why people get hooked on that stuff is beyond me - it did NOTHING for me). I was finally scheduled for a diskectomy in October. After waking up from the 45 minute surgery I was immediately and completely pain free. I have a one inch scar that is barely noticeable. The recovery was very easy - I didn't even have any real pain at the point of surgery. The surgery was one of the best decisions I've ever made. I'm cautious now about my back as I never want to go through that again.

Observer was right - all that stuff we all did in our youth definitely catches up with us later. I'll watch guys at work and just think if they only knew what they were doing to their backs they wouldn't do it.

Good luck-I hope you can find relief.
How old were you and what kinda shape were you in at the time?
4/5/2013 8:02pm
flyinb501 wrote:
These are basically the two McKenzie stretches I do throughout the day. The standing one at work, and the laying down one at home. 10 -...
These are basically the two McKenzie stretches I do throughout the day. The standing one at work, and the laying down one at home. 10 - 20 reps several times a day. If you look at pictures of the spine and understand how your disc is bulging it will make more sense. Discs tend to bulge out the back of your spine because 99% of the bending we are doing throughout the day is forward bending. My physical therapist, neck and back doctor, and chiropractor all agree that the McKenzie technique and the inversion table are a good idea.



How tall are you? I believe my cheapo inversion table goes up to 6' 6". You can get a cheap one for just over $100, but the ankle holders won't be as comfortable. I highly recommend one though. It acts just like traction, and takes all that pressure of your discs, and allows them to decompress.
I'm 6'3" or maybe now 6'2" after the herniation lol. I saw my x-rays from last week.. lower spine area is wrecked.. very little cushiony stuff left.
4/5/2013 8:13pm Edited Date/Time 4/5/2013 8:15pm
I watched the NOOB's wheely video posted earlier today ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=tu5YSdkSDUs ) and god dammit if I don't want to get out my bike and RIDE. Weather is starting to get nice here. I'm "sorely" tempted to do it anyway.

Living in pain & avoiding doing anything that *might* cause the disc to re-herniate? Nope. I also don't want to put off a surgery then get canned because of sequestration/austerity and not have insurance to pay for it.
downard254
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4/6/2013 5:26am Edited Date/Time 4/6/2013 5:28am
I herneated a disc about 15 years ago. MRI showed the disc. My chiropractor said MRI was a waste of time unless I was planning surgery. I found information on how the body will correct itself over time. You just have to do plenty of stretching and manage the pain. A publication I recieve called Bottom Line gave advice on just such a situation and they recommended taking one dose of advil and combining with one dose of aleive. The two otc med compliment each other and do work. I also went to my chiropractor and had decomprression therapy. It's essentially a traction machine that stretches your spine at a specified angle. It's about a 30 treatment process and you won't really see the results for a couple months, but it worked for my father and myself. I'm sold on it. I now go back on occasion for refreshes.

Oh, and I will never let someone cut me open unless there are NO possible options.
Vet57
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4/6/2013 5:46am
It all starts with the education of proper body mechanics and the conscience continuation of said topic throughout daily life. Unfortunately most of us never are educated early in life about it and as time goes on.....ouch!
Myke
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4/6/2013 9:22am
Yoga it works.

Plus you get to check out hot chicks in tight clothes.
FLmxer
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Fantasy
4/6/2013 9:25am
micro discectomy animation here.

Saw this and went and had it done and I am so glad I did. I have cartwheeled head over heels since with no back issues. I had severe back pain my whole life even keeping me in bed some days. Not long ago my bike bogged on a huge triple and I cased it and burst two discs, bulged two and fractured my L3 all the way across and broke a huge piece of bone off that had to also be removed. I was in so much pain, I was temperarily paralyzed,seizuring and vomiting. I had this procedure done plus frag removed and was feeling 100 percent the moment I woke up and ever since.


I was flat landing this not long after.

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